Old 02-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #8  
Timbo
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
I need some good, objective opinions on this question. As you all know, it is nothing but doom and gloom over here regarding what's headed our way. I have always been one of the VERY few optimistic ones that think AMR will turn around and prosper into a world class airline within a few years.

OK, please give it to me straight:

1. USAir, UAL, DAL, NWA pilots: Was it pure doom and gloom when you guys got issued the initial 1113 term sheet?

2. Were your initial 1113 term sheets as bad as ours? Especially Scope: as I recall, every airline BK term sheet had massive scope concessions, but out of all of them, only UAL furloughed (737 fleet parked): everyone else recouped and started hiring again or are now hiring. How is it that Delta pilots got massive Scope concessions in BK and yet started hiring again shortly after??

3. Was there a massive rush for the door when you guys first read the term sheet?

I'll tell you: there are an amazing amount of AA pilots that want out: just look at the China job fair in MIA last week. TONS of guys are burned out and want nothing more to do with AMR. Guys here are convinced that AMR is done, will be sold off in pieces. But my question is, why? How is our BK different than anyone else's in the past? UAL did not get sold off. USAir did not... NWA merged with Delta. Why would AMR get sold off? Why wouldn't AMR exit BK like everyone else and start being profitable again like everyone else? Start hiring again and growing like everyone else?

I guess the jist of my question is:

1.How and why are we so drastically different than everyone else that went through?

2. People are saying that if AMR's scope concessions go through, it will be the end of AA domestic and they will only be an Int'l carrier. But how come United, USAir, Delta, etc also got HUGE scope concessions but look at their domestic today - it's still there! None of them ended up as Int'l carriers only.

Serious and objective answers are appreciated!
Thanks,
73

1. Yes, major Doom and Gloom, some bought it hook line and sinker and were ready to give away...everyting! Others (myself included) figured it was a 'negotiating tactic' to extract maximum concessions "Or DELTA WILL DIE!" Right, sure it will...

2. When I read your 1113 term sheat, I was surprised, it is MUCH better than what Delta threw at us. In fact, yours today is about what we finally ended up with, after about a year of 'negotiating'.

3. Delta's massive rush to the door came in the 12 months prior to our filing bankruptcy, because of our Defined Benefit, 50% lump sum payout option.

A lot of guys had over a $3 Million in total DB coming their way, and they knew, based on the history of Eastern and US Air, CAL, UAL, etc. that if they waited too long and Delta filed, it would all be gone. So to get half of their DB, they retired early, taking the 50% lump. But once Delta filed, that option was gone, so nobody left -after- they filed, they all left just before.

There were a few guys who figured out that if they got a Divorce first, and in the settlement, they gave their 50% lump to their Ex-Wife, they could also keep their jobs, and guess what, they could even buy a condo in Florida, live there, and 'visit' the wife back in their old home! Win Win!

One guy got caught when he remarried his ex wife, so he wouldn't have to pay for her medical coverage, he was fired. I read somewhere recently that a CAL pilot pulled the same stunt but got away with it, after it went ot court. Maybe some of the CAL guys can give the details.

AA's bankruptcy is no different than the others, except they are late to the party, so they get to dance with the fat chicks. All the pretty airlines have merged, so there ain't much left to choose from.

The one thing for certain, nobody on Wall Street cares what the AA Pilots think, and no amount of AA Pilot concessions can save the airline if Management has other ideas, ie. merger, or chop-shop. It's not all about the Pilots. Management is going to screw everyone. They are going to dump the leases in St. Louis, they got with TWA, they are going to 'restructure' all their debt. Screwing the Pilots is just icing on the cake, but you are not the only target here. So keep your chin up, go to work, fly safe, don't become a statistic because you will be distracted when talking about all this crap in the cockpit, no doubt.

I have a lot of very good friends flying for AA, I wish you all the best.
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