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Age 65 Rule Dec 13, 2007: Age 60 is now 65

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Old 07-23-2007, 05:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is It Retroactive?

Roll Call
July 23, 2007 Monday
Pilots Pushing 60 Lobby for the Right to Stay Aloft;
FAA Reauthorization Increases Age Limit, but Is It Retroactive?
BYLINE: Kate Ackley, ROLL CALL STAFF
SECTION: VESTED INTERESTS
LENGTH: 825 words

Retirement for Lew Tetlow apparently doesn't mean padding around his home in Bedford, N.H. Tetlow, in fact, spent all of last week lobbying Congress to get his old job back. He'll be doing the same this week, too.
Until he turned 60 on April 2, Tetlow was a pilot for US Airways, but commercial airline pilots hit a mandatory retirement when they usher in the end of their sixth decade. House and Senate bills to reauthorize the Federal Aviation Administration, as they are currently drafted, will move that limit to 65 years old.
Tetlow and his organization, the Senior Pilots Coalition, say that doesn't go far enough because it doesn't grandfather in pilots who already have lost their jobs. The senior pilots, in defiance of the leading pilots union and another long-standing group lobbying to increase the age limit, the Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination, are lobbying to grandfather in all pilots who turned 60 after Nov. 23, 2006, when foreign pilots up to age 65 were permitted to fly in and out of the United States. They are joined by another group set up to lobby to change the age rule, the Professional Pilots Federation.
"We're merely asking for equity with the rest of the world that has the right to fly into the United States," Tetlow said. "We don't support what's in the bills now because they both lack protection and equity for pilots who have been coerced into retirement since 23 Nov. 2006."
The Senior Pilots Coalition, whose members include many Vietnam War veterans, has adopted the motto of No Pilot Left Behind, a reference to the military credo of leaving no soldier behind, said the coalition's contract lobbyist Phillip Theodosiou, a scrappy Republican who runs Theodosiou Consultants.
Theodosiou said he is working with Members of both parties and both chambers including the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. "These Members of Congress understand discrimination," Theodosiou said. The lobbyist said the senior pilots group is also working to get on the Lou Dobbs show this week.
Rep. Sam Graves (R-Mo.), a pilot himself, said he supports raising the age limit to 65. "Pilots who are bumping up against mandatory retirement, there's a lot of experience there. It's invaluable," he said. "I want somebody who knows what they're doing."
Another Member pilot, Rep. Robin Hayes (R-N.C.), has sponsored a Freedom to Fly bill that would raise the age limit. But, he said, "we cannot support making it retroactive."
Pilots could reapply for new jobs with commercial airlines, but they would not retain their seniority, and many of the senior pilots say their younger colleagues and former employers alike are happy not to have their plumper paychecks and seniority around anymore.
A spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the leading union for commercial pilots, said that ALPA supports the increase to age 65 but does not support grandfathering in any pilots who already have turned 60.
"This is becoming a very complex issue," Theodosiou said. "Junior pilots are actually trying to force senior citizens out of their jobs. It's about the economics."
Tetlow's organization is also opposed to the Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination, a group that has been around for a decade trying to get the commercial pilot retirement age changed to 65. APAAD, however, is not asking Congress to grandfather in the already retired pilots, said the group's chairman, Paul Emens.
"We realized this was never going to pass on Capitol Hill because of too much opposition from corporations and big unions if it was retroactive," he said. "We said, 'OK, then we understand we can't get it done. So let's change the rule as quickly as possible.'"
Some of the Senior Pilots Coalition members were, and in some cases still are, part of APAAD. Every month, Emens estimates that 200 pilots lose their jobs because they turn 60.
"I'm losing guys left and right," he said.
Still, he added, he worries about the message and hardline approach of the Senior Pilots Coalition, even though he said he understands why the coalition's members are angry. Emens said he also has heard the Senior Pilots Coalition is discussing the possibility of a government bailout for pilots who have lost their jobs since November.
"This is a small group, but they are causing a lot of trouble," Emens said. "If they screw it up for everybody and we get nothing, we're going to lose another 4,000 or 5,000 jobs while we're waiting for the FAA."
While the senior pilots group might be in opposition to the union and APAAD, the coalition is reaching out to other organizations including the senior citizens lobby AARP, Theodosiou said.
David Certner, legislative counsel for AARP, said the group has long disapproved of age discrimination, including the age 60 limit for commercial airline pilots. But as for AARP's support for the Senior Pilots Coalition, Certner said they're in the preliminary stages of deciding what, if any, role to play.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not gonna happen Roberto, now back to making coffee!
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Age 65

NightFreight:

You are totally out of it. The bill will pass intact. It will allow you to go back to the front if you don't quit. That is the way it is going to be
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I heard from another F/O that CNN did a story on the FAA Reauthorization bill, which has the age 65 language in it, yesterday...did anyone see it?
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldawg View Post
did anyone see it?
I didn't see it, but I love the dog in your avatar! Is he really your dog? He's so cute.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GEOFFREY View Post
NightFreight:

You are totally out of it. The bill will pass intact. It will allow you to go back to the front if you don't quit. That is the way it is going to be
Nice to Dream. Someday reality will set in. Even at your age. There will not be mandated retroactivity. And I will wager what ever you have left to lose. I've talken to my Senator personally, and he said it may not even be attached to any bill, and will most likely be put back in the FAA's lap.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Question attached ????????????

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Originally Posted by Nashmd11 View Post
... I've talken to my Senator personally, and he said it may not even be attached...
[uh - talken??] Anyway, just exactly who is your senator, anyway, Obama? I'm pretty sure you're right about the retroactive part, but on the other hand it's also my understanding that it's not going to be attached to anything - and that's because it's already in the actual language of the funding bill itself. Any legal eagles out there with the correct info on this? Where'd that ANDY guy go to?

Last edited by ATlineholder : 07-26-2007 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ATlineholder View Post
[uh - talken??] Anyway, just exactly who is your senator, anyway, Obama? I'm pretty sure you're right about the retroactive part, but on the other hand it's also my understanding that it's not going to be attached to anything - and that's because it's already in the actual language of the funding bill itself. Any legal eagles out there with the correct info on this? Where'd that ANDY guy go to?
Obama is actually a cosponsor of S.65. It has notable support from both sides of the aisle.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...0:SN00065:@@@P

And, in the House of Representatives.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...0:HR01125:@@@P

Those are the stand-alone bills. Age 65 is also incorporated in the FAA Reauthorization bills (S.1300 and H.R.2881) and in the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development Act (S.1789).
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Thanks Roberto, for the info

Thanks Roberto. You're the kind of Philadelphia lawyer type we need more of on this web site. I know this might be beyond the scope of this thread, but if you ever find the time can you explain why there are multiple, seemingly unrelated pieces of legislation trying to accomplish the same thing?
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ATlineholder View Post
Thanks Roberto. You're the kind of Philadelphia lawyer type we need more of on this web site. I know this might be beyond the scope of this thread, but if you ever find the time can you explain why there are multiple, seemingly unrelated pieces of legislation trying to accomplish the same thing?
Thanks AT. The age change is in multiple bills because the supporters are attempting to get it passed on the first vehicle that can get through the logjam in Congress.
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