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You still would retire at 50% of your best five years. That number would be reduced by 3% per year early. The normal retirement age remains age 60 unless the company and union change that at some future date.
Now explain how this doesn't bend over so many of us?....hmh?...Oh wait a minute, it does bend us over! But at least you get yours! That's what's important right? It just tickles me to see someone giving so selflessly of themselves, especially during the holidays!
Happy Holidays! (And I always thought the grinch was green! Turns out he's purple!)
Now explain how this doesn't bend over so many of us?....hmh?...Oh wait a minute, it does bend us over! But at least you get yours! That's what's important right? It just tickles me to see someone giving so selflessly of themselves, especially during the holidays!
Happy Holidays! (And I always thought the grinch was green! Turns out he's purple!)
That is why you pay ALPA your dues. You guys voted for it, now make it work. In the last Flying Tiger contract you could take early retirement at age 50 if you had 25 years service, with no early out reduction. You guys have all the answers. Most of the time I wonder if we work for the same company. Yes, the older pilots, some not all that senior, received an early Christmas present this year. It took time, money, and faith that it could get done. The guy that headed up the show was working the halls of Congress 40 years ago with his dad when ALPA was fighting it back then. I thank all those that did a lot more to that make this happen. Look in the mirror, most of you guys act like nasty spoiled Jr. High students that are all hot air.
That is why you pay ALPA your dues. You guys voted for it, now make it work. In the last Flying Tiger contract you could take early retirement at age 50 if you had 25 years service, with no early out reduction. You guys have all the answers. Most of the time I wonder if we work for the same company. Yes, the older pilots, some not all that senior, received an early Christmas present this year. It took time, money, and faith that it could get done. The guy that headed up the show was working the halls of Congress 40 years ago with his dad when ALPA was fighting it back then. I thank all those that did a lot more to that make this happen. Look in the mirror, most of you guys act like nasty spoiled Jr. High students that are all hot air.
Merry Christmas Sincerely,
George
Thank you Scrooge for that thrilling commentary.
So where do I begin...Flying Tigers...nope, I don't work there. Never have. Hasn't existed for quite some time now. The contract that Tigers had doesn't remotely reflect what we have now. Yes, I pay my union dues. No, I don't have all the answers. But I listen intently to what the MEC and NC say and pay heed. So what we have now is the best I could hope for as Joe Bag-a-Donuts paying attention union member. And as far as "you voted for it"...actually there was no vote. The MEC took a SURVEY and in the end decided for us--a completely different subject that still chaps my hyde.
Why do you wonder if we work for the same company? Based on what? That I'm annoyed that you would push your own personal agenda on the rest of us? Can you blame me? What this board is isn't "work". This is a sideshow. Work is about doing the job and doing it right, which I do. And I know what company I work for and I'm damned proud of it.
If the older pilots got an early Christmas present what do you suppose the younger ones got? A hairy steamer? Think about that one while you're busy patting yourself on the back and all the others who "did a lot more to make this happen" over your eggnog. You can spare me the grandios speech about dear old dad too. When I look in the mirror I see someone who worked hard and played by the rules only to have people who benefitted by the rules get them changed because it suited them.
And as far as the "nasty spoiled Jr. High student" comment there are certainly some who are bellicose, especially when it comes to you. For some reason you (by far) draw more ire than anyone else. How could that be? And spoiled...wrong again. Never have been, never will be.
I love your attitude too...it's as if you're saying "here's a horrendous mess for you to try to clean up for the rest of your career...now deal with it, have fun. At least I got mine. Hugs and kisses, FoxHunter"
The mandatory retirement age for airline pilots was 60. This new bill/law increases that age to 65. Many of the older pilots believe if they are still physically able and willing to fly there should be no reason to retire.
Many of the current airline pilots feel negatively because it slows their careers progressions down by "5 years"... instead of them being able to upgrade as these pilots are forced to retire, they now have to sit in the right hand seat for another 5 years...
Also, the regional pilots are upset because this takes many of the job openings away from the majors, so they are stuck longer at the low paying regionals.
Then it all boils down to people like me, who have yet to enter the industry professionally. I currently have around 300 hours and would have been relatively close to getting a job with the current minimums and "pilot shortage"... now it's going to be increasing difficult to get a job and will take much more time... although i see this as a huge disadvantage, some people see it as an advantage because the hiring minumums will go back up hirer where they should/used to be... but for my sake, i don't like it. lol
thats my 2 cents anyway.
First of all, you are feeding on the negativism here and jumping to a conclusion about your hiring prospects. There have been an unprecedented number of new aircraft orders this year, and the U.S. airlines all have expansion and growth plans that create a pilot demand that far outstrips the current supply. The change to the mandatory pilot retirement policy, which is long overdue, will have little effect on the hiring of the next five years.
As to the whining about "slow" upgrades, the simple fact is the current population of junior flight crew members are upgrading at a rate far faster than that endured by the pilots against whom they would perpetuate the discriminatory policy of age 60 mandatory retirement. So when you read all the griping and hurling of insults at the senior pilots, just know that many of those senior pilots spent as many as 15 years or more, combined in the right seat and the sideways-facing seats of the older turbojets. The argument that the junior pilots are entitled to upgrade to captain after their third year as a F/O, even if it means imposing age discrimination against another pilot, is patently absurd.
That is why you pay ALPA your dues. You guys voted for it, now make it work. In the last Flying Tiger contract you could take early retirement at age 50 if you had 25 years service, with no early out reduction. You guys have all the answers. Most of the time I wonder if we work for the same company. Yes, the older pilots, some not all that senior, received an early Christmas present this year. It took time, money, and faith that it could get done. The guy that headed up the show was working the halls of Congress 40 years ago with his dad when ALPA was fighting it back then. I thank all those that did a lot more to that make this happen. Look in the mirror, most of you guys act like nasty spoiled Jr. High students that are all hot air.
Everyone who is not already a captain is against this. You benefited from age 60, and now you want to benefit from 65. You don't care that it screws EVERYONE behind you.
How does it screw you? Is it because you were counting on benefitting from a blatantly unfair and anachronistic policy for your quick upgrade?
You sold out to work for a fraction of the value of the job, and now you are relying on a discriminatory policy to accelerate your upgrade at someone else's expense.
It's time to put to rest a myth frequently perpetuated here: That older pilots "benefitted" from the age 60 mandatory retirement policy. No one "benefitted" from the "age 60" rule. The pilots against whom you would cheerfully discriminate today didn't upgrade in three years or five, but often sat for 12 to 15, sometimes in seats that didn't even face the orchestra, to get to the seats in which they are now flying. Furthermore, during a large percentage of those years, they were on furlough for months or years at a time, vastly increasing their time to upgrade and decreasing their average earnings.
Your sense of entitlement and self-obsession cannot overcome the fact that the federal policy that was finally overturned today was ill-begotten to begin with, was blatantly discriminatory, and stood as one of the few remaining examples of a type of arbitrary prejudicial public policy not seen since the 1960s.
Last edited by MTOP : 12-14-2007 at 10:17 AM.
Reason: typo
How does it screw you? Is it because you were counting on benefitting from a blatantly unfair and anachronistic policy for your quick upgrade?
You sold out to work for a fraction of the value of the job, and now you are relying on a discriminatory policy to accelerate your upgrade at someone else's expense.
It's time to put to rest a myth frequently perpetuated here: That older pilots "benefitted" from the age 60 mandatory retirement policy. No one "benefitted" from the "age 60" rule. The pilots against whom you would cheerfully discriminate today didn't upgrade in three years or five, but often sat for 12 to 15, sometimes in seats that didn't even face the orchestra, to get to the seats in which they are now flying. Furthermore, during a large percentage of those years, they were on furlough for months or years at a time, vastly increasing their time to upgrade and their average earnings.
Your sense of entitlement and self-obsession cannot overcome the fact that the federal policy that was finally overturned today was ill-begotten to begin with, was blatantly discriminatory, and stood as one of the few remaining examples of a type of arbitrary prejudicial public policy not seen since the 1960s.
Your sense of entitlement and self-obsession cannot overcome the fact that the federal policy that was finally overturned today was ill-begotten to begin with, was blatantly discriminatory, and stood as one of the few remaining examples of a type of arbitrary prejudicial public policy not seen since the 1960s.
Discriminatory? Come on! Now 65 is not? Before you unleash a string of banter...I knew the 65 would become effective. No big deal to me. I was in a VERY small minority on this issue. Others in my age group.....well your words sum it up. Don't take it personal though!
This is a basic change in the work environment. People are working longer because they are living longer. Most have healthier lifestyle. Taking better care of themselves...better medical care....advances in medical technology the list goes on. But this has NOTHING to do with age discrimination!!
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If your not part of the solution, then..............
I'm new to the forum and don't really understand the new age 60 rule. The overwhelming majority is extremely negative about the whole situation. What are the negative parts of the new legislation that everyone is mad about? Thanks in advance for all of your input.
I have a couple of friends who are pilots, and retired pilots with the majors. I am amazed at how different each ones opinion is on the age 60 issue. One of them just retired from Northwest, would love to keep flying, says it is his lifes passion, and I get the impression he is not looking forward to spending a lot more time with the wife. Another good friend is 48, has been with the majors for 16 years, airforce T37, T38 instructor before that. He regrets not getting to see his kids grow up, hates flying now, and would retire tomorrow to spend more time with his family, if he could afford to. I personally think that anyone who is seriously thinking about getting into aviation as a career should talk to some of the "old" guys in order to get a good idea of what they are in for. It is not for everyone.
I am an FO, and I am in favor of 65. It IS discriminatory, and I think the age limit should be abolished, but 65 is better than 60. I can fly for 5 more years if I want, IF I'm at a job that has an age limit.
NetJets would be great, and this will increase my chances of getting hired there, as the number of age 60 airline guys applying will decrease.
cliff
YIP
PS-JAA (European FAA) has an committe that is studying an Age 70 limit for them.
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