Futureman

I see you're a captain. What a shock. You did benefit from age 60. It allowed you to upgrade. Now those behind you will have to wait an extra 5 years to upgrade so that you can benefit from age 65. If you are too dumb to understand that, then I can't help you.
Age 65 is no more "fair" than age 60. It is equally arbitrary. Once again, if you're too dumb to see that...
I'm still flying jets in the military. I'm not sure how that is "selling out" to work for a fraction of the value of the job. You're one of those people who never tires of being wrong, aren't you?
Comparing a mandatory retirement age to the discrimination in the 60's is shameful.
You are for age 65 because it benefits you, and for no other reason. We are not fooled by your disingenuous arguments.

Oceanside11

You're an FO? For who? If you're HOPING to get a job at NetJets then what do you do now? Certainly nothing you could make much of a career out of. Which gives you ZERO perspective on the issue of the age 60 debacle (no longer a debate, just a debacle). You better HOPE that NetJets gig comes through because your odds of getting a job with a major carrier in the next 5 years just went to ZERO (and in your case, Mr. FO flying for god knows who--much longer). And upgrade time at a commuter just slowed by 5 years (news flash--if you don't make captain and start racking up PIC time you can never get a job with a major) cause the captains there have no place to go. So you might get a job at a commuter, but I hope you like their FO rates (perhaps you should start looking at them on the APC website) because that's where you'll be for a LONG time. Talk about a pilot shortage. Love of flying is great, but who would go into aviation right now knowing that your pay is going to be CR&P for ten years? So you better plan on working till 70 or beyond, because you'll need to unless you choose a different career. Better pray NetJets calls you, Cliffy. Wake up, the reality bus just passed you by.

Commuter guys, you all have my sympathy. You guys just got served up the biggest $#!-/- sandwich of all. I know there are some who are in the left seat and content with their jobs. But I also know the vast majority hope to get a job at a major someday. I predict an exodus from the FO ranks. I know I wouldn't stick around. Good luck.

Oceanside11

Hurrrummph! Ditto. What he said.

Packer Backer

That is an easy list to come up with. Just look at your seniority list. Anybody over the age of 60 that comes back to a front seat is obviously a supporter of APAAD. Those who still retire at 60 are against it.

FreightDawgyDog

"It's time to put to rest a myth frequently perpetuated here: That older pilots "benefitted" from the age 60 mandatory retirement policy. No one "benefitted" from the "age 60" rule. The pilots against whom you would cheerfully discriminate today didn't upgrade in three years or five, but often sat for 12 to 15, sometimes in seats that didn't even face the orchestra, to get to the seats in which they are now flying. Furthermore, during a large percentage of those years, they were on furlough for months or years at a time, vastly increasing their time to upgrade and decreasing their average earnings."


Your logic is flawed and totally wrong. Your sense of self importance and need to lecture those that disagree with you is troubling as well as annoying. The fact that you can't see that pilots like FH (even if I accept your false statement about those pilots now being given an extra 5 years at the top somehow had to sit sideways and on furlough longer than any other average pilot during their career) still upgraded 5 years sooner because of past pilots leaving at Age 60 tells me ignorance is no stranger to your door. Or maybe it tells me you just like trying to bully others by saying they are self obsessed. Truly, in the history of aviation, there have been no pilots more selfish, self absorbed and self obsessed that those in the APAAD movement. Never, never, and I mean never has anyone seen a group that was so willing and excited to trash the careers of others just to get an extra 5 years at the top. Any future furloughs we may see will be directly effected by this decision and those who worked for it. Way to go APAAD! You won! Everyone junior to you loses! Some their chance at a aviation career and some their current jobs. We will all likely lose our chance to retire without penalty at Age 60 unless we give something for it in the next contract.

The only fair way to institute the change would have been making it effective for those that do not hold an ATP right now. If anyone can get me a list of donors and members of APAAD I would greatly appreciate it. (FH, my PM box awaits your proud list.) I want to be able to recognize them when I see them on layovers or in the crew room so I can turn my back on them, just like they turned their back on all those junior to them. If they have any guts they will make it a public list but I think I know the answer to that. I will look forward to avoiding FH as I am sure most of his F/O's will. Enjoy these extra 5 years pal. They will likely be very lonely ones on the road.

Chainsaw

I hope the age 60 pilots enjoy those extra five years of flying. I hear FLOMAX just tripled in price. They will get alot of exercise getting up and hitting the john.

Keep on Rockin the Free World

__________________
Flocculation Leadership model – “The big chunks float to the top” (see sewage treatment)

Goulet69

Only you could come up with the Flomax thing..bro! LMAO

stefanc

i think the age 65 rule would just push back pilot shortages for 5 years. Than we are going to see more hiring.