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Age 65 Rule Dec 13, 2007: Age 60 is now 65

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Old 02-08-2007, 07:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Age 60: Open Letter To ALPA Pilots From UAL Pilot

An Open Letter to Fellow ALPA Pilots

January 7, 2007

It is hard to believe that May of this year will be the 22nd anniversary of the United Airline (UAL) Pilot strike of May of 1985. It seems like it was just yesterday.

I remember graduating from college and reporting to Air Force Pilot Training in November of 1972. After 6 years on active duty and 1 year in the Reserves I was able to finally get my “dream” job as a pilot with United Airlines. I was hired in June of 1979, as a B-737 “Flight Engineer/Door Guard”, but I didn’t care, I had a great career in aviation ahead of me. In May of 1980 I was excited to upgrade to the B-727 as a real Flight Engineer, but just 6 months later, in November of 1980, I was furloughed. After 4 years on furlough I was finally recalled in November of 1984 and once again excited to continue my career.

Then in early 1985, the United CEO, Dick Ferris, announced to union that he wanted to start a permanent B-scale for all the new hires at UAL. The B-scale salary would be half of the A-scale salary. The deal was we would be able to maintain our current A-scale salaries if we agreed to put all the new hires on a permanent B-scale. This meant there would be a group pilots doing the exact same job we were doing, but they would only make half of what we were making for their entire career at United Airlines. This could be up to 30 to 40 years for some pilots.

Then in April of 1985 I received a very interesting phone call from my Flight Manager who stated, “Steve, ALPA will soon be going on strike over the proposed B-scale and other issues, do not listen to the union and go on strike, I want you to stay on the property. We are going to rebid the airline and we will immediately upgrade you to a B-737Captain position if you are loyal to the company and continue to work. If you listen to ALPA and go on strike you will loose your job and be permanently replaced and never work for this company again.” The company was going to try to break the union.

Well, what a great opportunity for me and my family. At that time we had people who had been on the property as a B-727 Flight Engineer for over 30 years before they could even upgrade to a B-737 Co-Pilot and here I was being offered a Captain position after only 6 years with the company. But the problem was I would be enhancing my career at the expense of the career of my fellow pilots. I would be moving up to a Captain seat that was vacated because I allowed and supported the termination of fellow pilots. That and imposing a B scale on the new hires just did not seem like the right thing to do.

So, I along with 95% of the pilots on the property went on strike in May of 1985, and we all risked loosing our jobs and risked not being able to support our families, because it was just the right thing to do. This group of ALPA pilots experienced solidarity, loyalty and honor in fighting for a just cause. Lifelong friendships were made standing together on the picket line. This group of pilots could not be intimidated by management and these pilots now proudly wear a “Battle Star” above their upright ALPA wings.

There was another famous group of 570 pilots that the company had previously trained as strike breakers, who much to the company’s dismay refused to go to work. They did not go to work because they realized to steal a fellow pilots job while he was on strike, was just not the right thing to do.

There was another group of pilots, only 5 %, who stayed on the property and attempted to move up at the expense of their fellow union pilots being terminated. The company found another group of pilots, called “fleet-quals”, who were willing to cross the picket line and sign a contract to work for $50,000 a year as a Co Pilot and $75,000 a year as a Captain. The company later admitted it would never have hired this substandard group of pilots through the normal interview process. This group of pilots attempted to come in the back door and take the jobs of pilots on strike that would be terminated. ALPA pilots labeled the people in both of these groups as SCABS.

On January 30, Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) Administrator, Ms. Marion Blakey, in a speech to the National Press Club, announced the FAA plans to abolish the arbitrary and discriminatory Age 60 Rule. Senator James Inhofe responded by saying, “FAA Administrator Marion Blakey’s proposal to end the Age 60 Rule is a step in the right direction. However, the harsh reality of the situation is that American pilots are already suffering under the current standards. I have spoken with Administrator Blakey and she has agreed to consider addressing the impact to pilots stuck in the middle - those who will be forced to retire at age 60 before the new rule is enacted.” United Airlines alone will terminate between 250to 300 pilots a year for the next several years. The FAA needs to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60.

I am one those pilots “stuck in the middle”. I will reach age 60 on June 5, 2007 and be forced to retire from flying for United Airlines (UAL) due to the archaic FAA Age 60 Rule. With over 35 years of experience and over 18,000 hours of flight time as a pilot in the Untied States Air Force, during the Vietnam Era and as a pilot with United Airlines, with no accidents or violations, I would like to continue my professional carrier in aviation as a B-747-400Captain. I love to fly. I submit that my skills and experience enhance aviation safety, serve United Airlines and the serve public interest.

ALPA is opposed to a change in the Age 60 Rule and is actively lobbing against legislation that would allow fellow ALPA pilots to continue their careers and not be terminated. Isn’t it ironic that the pilots being terminated are very the pilots who supported the union, risked everything and went on strike in 1985 and did not allow a permanent B-scale for the new hires? I related this to a friend outside the Air Line Industry and he incredulously asked, “How can that be? Doesn’t your union have a Duty of Fair Representation (DFR) to all its union members regardless of age? How can ALPA have a policy that obviously supports and practices age discrimination in the work place?”

I explained that ALPA took a survey on the Age 60 Rule and 55 % of the pilots did not want to change the rule. Consequently, ALPA’s official policy is against a change in the Age 60 Rule, because the majority rules. However, the majority of pilots are younger, so now this group of younger pilots will move up more quickly at the expense of their fellow union pilots who will be terminated. Many of these younger pilots would now be on a B-scale, earning half of what they now earn, if it were not for the striking pilots, whose jobs they now actively supporting to be terminated.

My friend responded, “But this sounds a lot like the group of pilots that tried to take your job during the strike in May of 1985. What was the term you used to describe that group of pilots? This is a lack of consideration and respect for the striking pilots of May of 1985, who risked their jobs for the all union pilots.”

It is regrettable to see my once united, proud and honorable union, ALPA, is now promoting and supporting an age discriminatory retirement policy. I propose that ALPA align its policy with the current ICAO standard and new FAA policy and actively promote and support changing the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65. Let’s “FIX IT ALL NOW.”

But more importantly, I challenge ALPA to petition the FAA to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60, because it is just the right thing to do.

Fraternally,

Captain Steven B. McBride
United Airlines
B-747-400 SFOFO

Loyal Member of ALPA and Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination (APAAD)

Last edited by rjlavender : 02-08-2007 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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waaaaaaaaaaaa

Last edited by CaptainMark : 06-30-2007 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow, no he is essenitally calling us scabs for wanting to enforce a rule that has been on the books since he started his aviation carrer.
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm wondering if he felt this way when he was 29 and united was pushing the 60 guys out the door so he can upgrade and enjoy the benefit. AND NO SIR US YOUNGER GUYS ARE NO SCABS WE JUST TRYING TO ENJOY OUR CAREER LIKE YOU DID.
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedude View Post
Wow, no he is essenitally calling us scabs for wanting to enforce a rule that has been on the books since he started his aviation carrer.
Dude,

Please tell me if I missed the mark here since I will not actually read his post.

When he was a young lad, the leadership at the time took a stand for something they believed would benefit the profession as a whole. Now, he wants to use that as ammo to encourage the leadership now to do something that will have a great negative influence upon the majority of the pilot group. Close?
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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>I explained that ALPA took a survey on the Age 60 Rule and 55 % of the pilots did not want to change the rule. Consequently, ALPA’s official policy is against a change in the Age 60 Rule, because the majority rules. However, the majority of pilots are younger, so now this group of younger pilots will move up more quickly at the expense of their fellow union pilots who will be terminated.<

Yep, democracy is a pain all right. I really like the part where he says "younger pilots will move up more quickly at the expense of their fellow union pilots". Gee, I'm sure that the age 60 rule didn't help him at all. I'd have more respect for their argument if they would just call it what it really is. "The dirty management scum eviscerated my contract and my retirement fund through bankruptcy, and I can't afford to retire anymore."
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't care what side of this arguement you fall on ... it is mostly about greed from both sides. Just the way I see it ...

I hear the age discrimination thing, well 65 will be discrimination too. Besides, the government discriminates based upon age, whether we like it or not. Always have, always will ...

But I REALLY wonder who would expect a law to change literally overnight that would bring back someone between 60-65 ? It would be a mess for a troubled industry.

I expected a change to this law sometime during my career. And this is exactly how I expected it would occur , GRADUALLY ... I guess I am just surprised that anyone would expect this change to occur any other way. Maybe they haven't been paying attention to current events throughout the years ? I dunno ...

Heck, isn't the FAA still "studying" a change to flight & duty time regs ?

And I can agree that it will not be "fair" to the guy/gals who's birthday is the day before this regulation takes affect ... but unfortunately, I don't see any other way for this political hot potato to make it to reality.
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
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He needs to quit his whining. This "Age 60/65" rulemaking process, as with all others, is replete with flaws. Furthermore, the FAA can't make everyone happy.

While I understand that this "747-400" Captain will not be able to make the big bucks for another five years and enjoy his layovers in HKG, SYD, NRT, etc...I'm sure that six or seven months ago he was craving retirement, was tired of lubing up his hemorrhoids from sitting on his ass all day and sick of eating crew meals delivered by the Senior Mama's on the "Upper Deck". Now the possibility arises that he can bring in another $750k in five years and he's ****ed. As always, this isn't about flying airplanes, it's about cold hard cash.

I heartily disagree with his portrayal of the pilots who will be positively impacted by this new rulemaking process. SCABS make a concious choice to cross the picket line of a striking carrier to satisfy their own egos and pocketbooks. Those of us able to benefit from this rulemaking process have not crossed a picket line, injured the livelihood of other pilots nor have we created this newly-adopted regulation.

My advice to Captain Whats-His-Face? Flying the -400 doesn't make you an expert on Age 60/65. I'm not claiming to be one, either. However, if you're craving making money or flying airplanes that badly after June 2007, I would be happy to swap seats with you. Better yet, with all of that experience, why don't you come on down to training and we'll fly 5-legs a day on the RJ together.
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What a loser! Scabs? Just for wanting to keep the rule that benefitted him for 20+ years? Too bad he is getting the boot before the rule changes! I hope he has a terrible retirement...
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The rule will change. I try not to let it get me angry. 60 was one reason I joined this profession though.

For the above post, I would have argued differently if I were this United guys friend. I would have said "Why are you trying to B scale everyone junior to you now by holding back their career progression? Didn't you know the rule and benefit from it your entire career?"
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