darwint

I live in Anderson,IN.The Indianapolis International Airport is 41 miles from me with a heading of 236 degrees. Chicago is 162 miles from here with a heading of 318 degrees.

I often see airliners approaching Indianapolis which are pretty low. I also see airliners heading north which are further up, but low enough that I can clearly see the shape of them. I assume they are going to Chicago. They pass a little east of my location.

My question is: At what distance from landing does an airliner start it's descent and at approximately what altitude would they be at when they are 40 and 160 miles from the airport?

Thank you very much!

rickair7777

It can vary with traffic and airspace, but an airliner in the mid-30's will usually start down about 100 miles out.

There is a thumbrule: Altitude/1000 x 3 = NM distance for TOD (Top of Descent). This assumes 2000 fpm descent rate.

Actually this is changing, airliners are trying to stay higher for longer to conserve fuel...3000-4000 fpm decents are now common. The downside is rapid pressure changes in the cabin and steep deck angle, neither of which is good for pax comfort.

SomedayRJ

And there's less room for slowing down, because you can't exactly slow down and go down simultaneously. (SWA learned this when they bought that gas station in Burbank.)

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III Corps

With the runways at IND 23L/R, the aircraft are maneuvering for the arrivals and as noted by others, the general rule of thumb is 3:1 (25,000ft = 75 miles). This is adjusted for headwinds and tailwinds. Now most aircraft have vertical Nav (VNAV) profiles and the VNAV can be set up to cross navigation points at a given altitude.

There are three arrivals in IND and they can be viewed at AirNav: KIND - Indianapolis International Airport

Many pilots will try to hit various 'gates' on the 3:1 profile.
60 miles at 20,000ft
40 miles at 10,000ft and 350kts OR
30 miles at 10,000ft and 250kts
10 miles at 3,000ft and 210kts
and finally 3 miles, configured for approach, on speed and 1000ft agl. At this point, if IFR they will drop gear and go landing flaps. If VFR that may be delayed to 500ft but more and more often guys/gals are not waiting until 500ft for final config.

Of course, all this is subject to ATC clearances for speed, altitude and heading when lining up for the runway.

The guys going into IND will be down around 10,000ft and those going to ORD will still be at cruise but they may be getting cleared lower to accommodate departure traffic. It is not uncommon to find yourself down early when going into major areas such as ORD, LGA, PHL or BOS. When we go into PWK, north of ORD, we are down in the dirt (10,000 or lower) 100 miles out.

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10seatsbucksmos

The Honeywell/Thales FMS system, when programmed properly, did allow for some great fuel-saving decelerating descents. Clean until the last possible moment.

If you needed drag (spoilers) to meet the profile speed and altitude constraints ahead, it told you.

III Corps: 1000' (IMC) and 500' (VMC) landing gear extension would be even a little late for this former extreme fuel saver

Doesn't the EGPWS scream at you?

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Phantom Flyer

Darwint:

III Corps is giving you some good "gouge". Off the top of my head, the one rule that almost everyone uses, is: 30 miles from the airport, be at 10,000' and 250 knots. Obviously, ATC will sequence you to meet their needs but if you find yourself closer than 30 miles at 10,000' and over 250 knots, get ready for a "slam dunk" and plan accordingly. Conversely, if lower or farther away when the ATC descent begins, stay "clean" as long as possible and try to conserve fuel.

Every situation is different but use III Corp's rules and constantly monitor your descent progress and stay ahead of the aircraft !!

Happy flying Mate !!

G'Day

III Corps

EGPWS talking? No.. with approach flaps (2/3 on the bus, 10 on the Boeing and what... not 28 on the MD-80) you won't get the aurals.

And, I meant loose IFR.. maybe 500-2 or something close to VFR..not Cat I and definitely not II or IIIB. And also, NLT.. no later than. I never considered it fuel savings because the time span is so short as to be negligible.

The Ops Specs at my old house called for config at the outer marker which works well going into some low density airports but you can't do 130-140 at ORD or LGA without someone talking to you.. that is unless they are running Cat II/III ops.

With flaps 2/3 on the 'bus, or 10 on the Boeings, you are not that far from the approach speed (Vref) so slowing is no big deal.

Also, I like to be on the slow side of flap extensions. Many times I see guys/gals use the max extension speeds and with that, especially for the larger flap deflections, there is a considerable pitch change when at max extension speed.. something not as noticeable when at the lower speed range. Same with the gear.. lots of noise at max speed.. not so much at low speed.

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BA Pilot

From RickairThat is bollox. You don't conserve fuel by cruising for longer! You conserve fuel by descending at max lift/drag speed. This will generally mean descending at about 250 kts from cruise altitude with thrust at idle, which will give you a descent point earlier than if descending at M0.8/320 kts. The fuel saving is the 2 minutes or so at idle power in the descent vs continued cruise flight.

At least try to understand the principles of flight rather than spout cr*p.

III Corps

Bollox or not, your response was rude. And I don't know of too many major cities where you can descend at a slow 250kts without ATC being on your case.

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HercDriver130

you decend at 250 going into ATL Hartsfield and the controller will stroke out.... they usually have you rolling at 290+...right up to 320 until they just have to slow you down... not unusual there to be at 10,000 on a HIGH downwind.. then they will slow you to 210.... and start you down..... their usual speed is 170-180 to the "marker"... over all I think they do a damn fine job at the worlds busiest airport.

as for mr "BA"..... take your bollox back where it came from.....