RNAV Departures and Arrivals - Page 2

HangOn · 09-23-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightseater

AC 90-100A page 13, has a sentence that says "Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes."

So my original question still stands, does this mean if you are flying a non autopilot equipped airplane, and the flight director fails, you would have to advise ATC and get a switch to a different arrival/departure?

Do you have an "equivalent navigation map display"? If you have a map, no. If the F/D is your only source of lateral deviation from the route, yes.

atlmsl · 09-23-2008, 08:34 AM

Do you have an HSI? That is a lateral deviation indicator. By all means, continue the RNAV.

mmaviator · 09-23-2008, 07:52 PM

a side question.....flown with someone that would use 1/2 bank on rnav arr/dep? can this be done with breaking any far's etc.?

rightseater · 09-25-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HangOn

Do you have an "equivalent navigation map display"? If you have a map, no. If the F/D is your only source of lateral deviation from the route, yes.

So, under this logic, if we didn't have a CDI or equivalent navigation map display, but the F/D still worked, we'd be legal to continue? that doesn't seem right.

My understanding of the statement is that you must have a lateral CDI (or nav map display) and a flight director, and they both must be used If so equipped with an autopilot, that must also be used.

It seems that if either you lose the lateral CDI or F/D you would not be in compliance with "Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes."

The following sentence regards RNAV 2 routes, and states that crews are encouraged to use automation, and not required. Why would there need to be this distinction if you were not required to use all the above items on an RNAV 1?

atlmsl · 09-25-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightseater

So, under this logic, if we didn't have a CDI or equivalent navigation map display, but the F/D still worked, we'd be legal to continue? that doesn't seem right.

My understanding of the statement is that you must have a lateral CDI (or nav map display) and a flight director, and they both must be used If so equipped with an autopilot, that must also be used.

It seems that if either you lose the lateral CDI or F/D you would not be in compliance with "Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes."

The following sentence regards RNAV 2 routes, and states that crews are encouraged to use automation, and not required. Why would there need to be this distinction if you were not required to use all the above items on an RNAV 1?

I agree there is some ambiguity as to what the sentence means. However we fly RNAV 1 departures and arrivals everyday into ATL and the autopilot is not required. So maybe you need the CDI and FD, but autopilot is optional. I do know however that our FOM says we MUST use the FD on RNAV 1. I just don't know if it's because of that sentence or not.

zimi · 12-16-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlmsl

RNAV 1 is related to the RNP requirement of your RNAV equipment. That's the 1nm 95% of the time as mentioned above. It's just the reliability of your equipment. As far as losing your flight director, how do you all read this from the AIM?

For RNAV 1 DPs and STARs, pilots must use a CDI, flight director and/or autopilot, in lateral navigation mode. Other methods providing an equivalent level of performance may also be acceptable.

Does this mean you need a CDI AND FD and then the autopilot is optional. Or do you just need one of the three?

Actually RNAV 1 is NOT related to the RNP requirement. According the new Performance Based Navigation (PBN) concepts there are two types of Navigation Specifications. RNAV specifications, which state the accuracy level of the system on a 95% containment basis and RNP specifications which require onboard monitoring and alerting (RNAV specs don't require that). So when a procedure states "RNAV 1" you can fly it with an RNAV 1 certified equipment. It doesn't matter what Nan Sensor is used. The procedure is so designed that there will be the necessary Nav Infrastucure available to cope with the RNAV 1 requirement.

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