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Old 10-18-2008, 12:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default ILS apch clnc to an unlit runway - legal?

Putting company policies aside, can an aircraft on an IFR flight plan, be legally cleared to fly an ILS apch to a runway that is not lit? The airport has a tower, but the tower is closed for the night. Also, another runway has pilot controlled lighting available.

Legal or illegal?
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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boy i wish i had my regs on me...this is a fun one.

is the ALS in service? (not sure if that matters off hand)
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Are you asking from a Part 121, 135, or 91 perspective?

Also, I have never seen an ILS approach to a runway that DIDN'T have lights on it, regardless of if they are pilot controlled.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhc8fo View Post
Are you asking from a Part 121, 135, or 91 perspective?

Also, I have never seen an ILS approach to a runway that DIDN'T have lights on it, regardless of if they are pilot controlled.
Part 121.

I'm a center controller and I worked an airport whose tower was closed on the mid. They left the apch lights on for Rwy A, while the ILS was on for Rwy B. Rwy A's ILS was out of service.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Most plates show a higher visibility min for ALS oos and for TDZ/CL lights oos. You might be able to apply the higher of those penalties, but I would have to check the regs.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You can legally shoot the approach at least according to Part 91. You will have higher mins, but the runway surface or markings are visual identifiers that would allow you to descend from DA. I don't know if there is some override in 121 somewhere, though.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeburg220 View Post
Part 121.

They left the apch lights on for Rwy A, while the ILS was on for Rwy B. Rwy A's ILS was out of service.
I haven't looked in the regs, and it may vary by each company's OPSPEC, but I imagine you can clear them for the ILS with a circle to the lit runway. Visual cues will probably be controlling, but like I said I was too lazy to look it up.
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Old 10-19-2008, 08:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhc8fo View Post
I haven't looked in the regs, and it may vary by each company's OPSPEC, but I imagine you can clear them for the ILS with a circle to the lit runway. Visual cues will probably be controlling, but like I said I was too lazy to look it up.
When the tower is closed, ATC is not authorized to issue circling instructions. That, I do know. That leaves it up to the pilot to circle on his own, or to land on an unlit runway.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Also another factor, some 121/135 operators OPSPECS do not allow circling approaches, so it'd have to be a visual conditions for them to switch the runways under a "visual approach" criterea.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Just hold at the NDB until the sun comes up.
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