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Old 10-17-2009, 08:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Logging PIC

FAR Question. I'm looking for somebody who "REALLY" knows the FAR's.

Background: Commercial 150 hours from 135 mins. Own my own airplane and plan on flying around the country for the next month and a half knocking the remainder out. Have a buddy who I would like to help out with the same time and ratings.

Scenario: We file IFR on all flights and switch seats each leg. Flying pilot simulates entire leg with foggles. Non flying pilot acts as safety pilot.

Question: Can both pilots log PIC in this scenario for an unlimited amount of hours?

I'm having trouble with the FAR's because it only talks about using this situation to satisfy IFR currency requirements.

Please don't bore me with the "gee I think so" comments. I have no intention of jeapordizing a airline career by logging time inappropriately. I need someone that really knows what they're talking about.
Thanks a bunch
Don
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Don -

This issue has been discussed extensively on the forum in the past.
trying the search fucntion will certainly bring up many threads that will probably provide you with the answers and you might not have to worry about people trying to give you advice.

Logging SFTY Pilot Time

Read post #8 Is instrument training time PIC?

USMCFLYR
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Its been awhile since I have instructed so i'm a little rusty on the regs but i'll give it a shot.

61.51 (E) deals with logging PIC time, and states:

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Now in english!

Regardless of what seat you are in (assuming you dont own a 737) you can log PIC any time you are either:

1. the sole maipulator of the controls (the guy under the hood) or,
2. The legal PIC when two pilots are required (The safety pilot)

When you are a safety pilot you are a required crewmember by 91.109 which states:

(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot;

so you may both log PIC as long as one of you is under the hood, because two pilots are required and one of you is the legal PIC in charge of the flight, and the other is the sole manipuulator of the controls.

Flight schools do this all the time for multi engine time building. There is no need for you to switch seats either because light aircraft can be legally flown from either seat.
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info, that clears the situation up well enough for me to feel like I have a leg to stand on if scrutinized.

Don
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