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Old 07-15-2010, 02:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Cloud Separation on SID/STARS

Guys a little guidance here. My new colleague has just started flying with me and he has some jet time and lots of single engine time. While we were departing an airport recently we levelled off at 8000 ft. You could see the ground and lot's of pop corn CB's all around with tops reaching 12-14000FT. He was adamant about avoiding all the clouds as he says they posed a threat to our safety, I disagreed and he turned whiter than a ghost. He absolutely thought we were going to die. He has done the same thing whilst on a sid just getting ready to join the approach. Mind you, I am not talking about Thunderstorms, no lightning clouds are white in color, but a couple do paint red on the radar, however the tops are visually sighted and not higher than 14,000.
Any ideas, advisory circulars, information that I can look up to assuage this guy, or, am I the one that needs retraining. I'm open minded and thick skinned so I can take constructive criticism. I would not fly into anything I feel would be dangerous and that would start to be developing CBs with tops above FL200. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Guessing the guy scared himself bad once. I turn around stuff like that if possible just for passenger comfort, not because I fear for my life.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I personally "cheat" 5 degree's turn here and there, as long as I can stay within the 4nm centerline you are completely legal. If I feel I need more, I will request left/right deviations to go around any build-ups.

Your radar showed red though on the screen, was the tilt set right, if it wasn't a t-storm and was showing red it makes me wonder about that or the gain setting. If he's used to seeing some nasty stuff in the red, then I would be questionably scared also, but I think the main factor it sounds like he's in new equipment and not sure how it works.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I would avoid the red stuff for sure...maybe it's due to gain or tilt, but until you're sure stay out.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer View Post
as I can stay within the 4nm centerline you are completely legal.
Not exactly true. I made that mistake once before and someone pointed this out to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by § 91.181 Course to be flown.

Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft within controlled airspace under IFR except as follows:

(a) On an ATS route, along the centerline of that airway.
Lots of RNAV SIDs and DPs have an RNP of 1.0.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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"No lightning clouds are white in color"

Huh?
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingNasaForm View Post
Not exactly true. I made that mistake once before and someone pointed this out to me.



Lots of RNAV SIDs and DPs have an RNP of 1.0.
Whoops, yeah, I brain-farted that. I was thinking of enroute and getting to a transition. I rarely get STARS/DP's because of where I fly, but when i'm in that environment I do keep it tight or just make sure I do ask.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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yeah, Pilot1278 you're right. when I was writing I was recalling the cloud formation in my head and noticed its color and non convective. I should have been more clear...
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