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Old 04-23-2014, 11:14 PM
  #3011  
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Originally Posted by 757HI View Post
The West DFR suit was successful. ...
You started off with a self-delusion and dove into REM dreaming from there.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:09 AM
  #3012  
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Originally Posted by 757HI View Post
The West DFR suit was successful. The result of which is that a DFR threat to the APA is being taken seriously (which is why they insist on a methodology that includes FULL west representation, meaning the 'Nic is introduced into the conversation) and AAG feels the hot breath of liability. The result is that the APA and AAG are fighting to make sure they are not exposed. Limiting that liability means introducing the 'Nic. Which will happen.

The only SLI in existence between AWA and US is the 'Nic. Just a friendly reminder lest anyone forget

Another facet of the diamond overlooked by usapa supporters is what is meant by a "three-way". usapa's version of a three-way is; usapa (dictating the fate of the west pilots unilaterally), AAG, APA.

In reality, a three-way will be usapa, the west (presenting the 'Nic), and APA.

The only involvement of AAG in our SLI is merely to accept what the result is, just as usapa has insisted (those crew meals, just like seniortity), US (Parker) accepted the SLI between AWA and US.
This is true, but arbitration of the Protocol Agreement could certainly derail and future DFR efforts and grant both APA and US Airways their much sought after DFR immunity.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:51 PM
  #3013  
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Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
You started off with a self-delusion and dove into REM dreaming from there.
It's a matter of law; who's delusional?
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:52 PM
  #3014  
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Originally Posted by flybywire44 View Post
This is true, but arbitration of the Protocol Agreement could certainly derail and future DFR efforts and grant both APA and US Airways their much sought after DFR immunity.
I tell ya what, the way this whole saga has gone, I'm not even going guess what could happen.

Between the 9th Circus, and "kick the can silver" it's a crap shoot.
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:07 PM
  #3015  
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Originally Posted by 757HI View Post
I tell ya what, the way this whole saga has gone, I'm not even going guess what could happen.

Between the 9th Circus, and "kick the can silver" it's a crap shoot.
Since you opened it up to guesses, I am going to guess what could happen:
Gary Hummel could get paid off and forfeit MB process and all USAirways pilots get stapled.
Gary Hummel could get paid off and presents the NIC and the West a seat with the MB.
Hummel does not hold a medical and is a one man show running USAPA not the BPR.
The ISL could be delayed for years and Parker doesn't give the 2016 rates to USAirways pilots for creating the delay.
Gives the raise to APA to create a division.
Think about what delaying a $50 raise would do for profits and management bonuses.
Parker is fine with no ISL for years as long as there is neutral metal.
I have low expectations and a delay the best outcome for my peers.
This is my guess, what is yours?
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:56 AM
  #3016  
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Originally Posted by CaptainBigWood View Post
Since you opened it up to guesses, I am going to guess what could happen:
Gary Hummel could get paid off and forfeit MB process and all USAirways pilots get stapled.
Gary Hummel could get paid off and presents the NIC and the West a seat with the MB.
Hummel does not hold a medical and is a one man show running USAPA not the BPR.
The ISL could be delayed for years and Parker doesn't give the 2016 rates to USAirways pilots for creating the delay.
Gives the raise to APA to create a division.
Think about what delaying a $50 raise would do for profits and management bonuses.
Parker is fine with no ISL for years as long as there is neutral metal.
I have low expectations and a delay the best outcome for my peers.
This is my guess, what is yours?
USAPA is reconvening their Special Meeting, in executive session this evening. Something is going on, but since they are meeting via telephone I would expect it is not too much, or it is putting a bow on a long negotiated agreement..... i.e. they are either just kicking the can down the road (talks at an impasse and all the lawsuits will continue) or they already agreed to a watershed agreement and are simply rubber-stamping it this evening.... most likely the former, and delay continues.

Reconvening BPR Special Meeting Notice

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws Article 5, Section 3 C; and the Union Operating Manual Section 3 III; the Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting from April 23, 2014 will resume by telephone conference call today, Monday, April 28, 2014, at 1900 EDT and adjourn at 2200 EDT or the conclusion of business. The agenda remains as previously approved by the Board.

USAPA Communications
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:56 AM
  #3017  
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AOL will be commenting shortly.

Motions, Resolutions, and Votes in this Recap are not official until Meeting Minutes are approved.

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws Article 5, Section 3 C; and the Union Operating Manual Section 3 III; the Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting from April 23, 2014 resumed by telephone conference call Monday, April 28, 2014, at 19:00 EDT. The agenda remained as previously approved by the Board. The Officers, Board of Pilot Representatives, Merger Committee, Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski, General Counsel Brian O'Dwyer, and Communications were on the call. PHL Vice Chairman John Taylor joined the call at approximately 19:25.

At approximately 19:03, President Gary Hummel called the meeting to order. He then turned the Chair over to VP Steve Bradford, since Steve had chaired the previous days of this special meeting. Steve briefly introduced the documents before the Board (the proposed Protocol Agreement, proposed Union Merger Transition Agreement, and proposed Global Settlement Agreement) and asked the Board to limit comments to 5 minutes at a time.

At approximately 19:08, a motion to accept the proposed Protocol Agreement, which was previously sent to the Board by the Merger Committee, was moved/seconded by Stein/Dugstad.
After brief discussion, a motion to go into closed session was moved/seconded by Dugstad/Nelson and passed 6-4 (Yes - DCA, CLT, PHL Music; No - PHX, PHL DiOrio).

At approximately 21:17, the Board returned to open session, and after an editorial change, the following resolution passed 7-4 (Yes - PHL, DCA, CLT Borman, Nelson; No - PHX, CLT Frear).

Merger Documents


BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives approves the proposed Protocol Agreement and Settlement Agreement as presented by the Merger Committee,

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives approves the proposed Merger Transition Agreement as amended.
President Gary Hummel then brought before the Board the urgent need for a Consultant Contract for Dr. Pete Lambrou, AME, to assist the Safety and Accident Investigation Committees, relating to the current investigation of the PHL rejected takeoff.

At approximately 21:23, a motion to go into closed session was moved/seconded by Scherff/Ferguson and passed unanimously. After approximately 10 minutes, the Board returned to open session and discussed provisions of the consultant contract.

A motion to approve the following resolution was moved/seconded by Taylor/Nelson.

Dr. Pete Lambrou

BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs the Consulting Contract for Dr. Pete Lambrou be amended to place a $40,000 limit, to be monitored by the Executive Vice President, and any additional expenditures to be approved by the Board of Pilot Representatives.

Before the vote was completed, the call system terminated the call at 22:00.

USAPA Communications
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:42 AM
  #3018  
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Not sure what this means ?

What it APPEARS to mean is that simply USAPA has met and agreed to its own protocol agreement and has proposed its own Merger Transition Agreement and a Global Settlement Agreement (whatever that is). If this is correct, it seems to be only symbolic unless it's simply a new starting point to try and reengage and negotiate something (in which case, one wouldn't normally devise their own formal agreement first). Otherwise, USAPA can agree with itself until the cows wander home, but it would be wise not to confuse that with thinking this will dictate all or portions of a new MOU to the other parties.

Last edited by eaglefly; 04-29-2014 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:02 PM
  #3019  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
Not sure what this means ?

What it APPEARS to mean is that simply USAPA has met and agreed to its own protocol agreement and has proposed its own Merger Transition Agreement and a Global Settlement Agreement (whatever that is). If this is correct, it seems to be only symbolic unless it's simply a new starting point to try and reengage and negotiate something (in which case, one wouldn't normally devise their own formal agreement first). Otherwise, USAPA can agree with itself until the cows wander home, but it would be wise not to confuse that with thinking this will dictate all or portions of a new MOU to the other parties.
You're right. You are confused.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:04 PM
  #3020  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
Not sure what this means ?

What it APPEARS to mean is that simply USAPA has met and agreed to its own protocol agreement and has proposed its own Merger Transition Agreement and a Global Settlement Agreement (whatever that is). If this is correct, it seems to be only symbolic unless it's simply a new starting point to try and reengage and negotiate something (in which case, one wouldn't normally devise their own formal agreement first). Otherwise, USAPA can agree with itself until the cows wander home, but it would be wise not to confuse that with dictating all or portions of a new MOU to the other parties.
Yes, it could mean absolutely nothing, as you seem to suggest... or it could be the watershed event that the MOU itself was...Considering a bit of context I would suggest it is much more likely the latter than the former.

The APA hotline showed that the APA has been in negotiations with USAPA about SLI issues.

A week or so ago the USAPA BPR authorized unprecedented authority to the USAPA Merger Committee to engage the APA for resolutions.

This third most recent USAPA Special Meeting appeared to be a mere formality for the BPR to vote on documents that the Merger Committee had already sent to them (documents that obviously were formulated after approval for the Merger Committee to have nearly autonomous discussions with the APA).

The whole cast of thousands of legal beagles were present.

The meeting was done via a call in (so obviously everyone was familiar with what was going on).

But most importantly, this is the exact pattern that the MOU followed...The APA and USAPA agreed in principle during intense secret negotiations to an MOU.. The USAPA BPR officially signed on to it before any other parties officially signed on to it... The other official parties to the agreement signed on to USAPA's approved agreement very quickly thereafter.

Or this could be a very expensive ploy to stack the lawsuit in DC.

YMMV.
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