New Pay Rates For Those Interested
01-30-2015, 11:52 AM
#51
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by Jetdriver7
It's very accurate. My march block was 10 days off, 75 hr pay. Back2back red eyes 5 on 2 off. Funny how ppl start talking about this after they pass the jcba.
If you're interested. I've built some charts to compare rates, and just added your raise.
Navigate via the tabs at the bottom or top. Best if viewed on a non-moble.
Charts 10 yr upgrade AA Rates Added
01-30-2015, 11:53 AM
#52
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle
You should buy cars on a lease too. Leases were invented for such naiveté and garish optimism.
It all depends on what you want and where you put priorities.
01-30-2015, 12:19 PM
#54
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by inline five
Why was that bad news? I was able to swap into something much more advantageous.
Personally I thought that was good news.
Personally I thought that was good news.
Capt H
01-30-2015, 12:31 PM
#55
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by CanoePilot
Delta has 124 seats in their 717, that is a group 2 airplane.
a. Group I: With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below, any aircraft configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats, including E190/195, CRJ-1000, MRJ- 100, and Bombardier CS100.
01-30-2015, 12:31 PM
#56
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by inline five
Completely discarding leasing as an option is just as naive. It makes sense in various situations.
It all depends on what you want and where you put priorities.
It all depends on what you want and where you put priorities.
01-30-2015, 12:32 PM
#57
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 400
While this is really nothing more than continuing the rather juvenile comparisons that are ongoing here, I'll throw in from the UAL narrow body FO perspective on the industry contracts as of now.
First off, I am genuinely glad for the AA, US and AW guys who have been suffering financial hardships since this whole industry went in the toilet. You all deserve to live well, relax for a short time and enjoy some good life. I sincerely hope ALL of you can just for even the briefest of moments be peaceful and be rid of the poisonous effects of your struggles since 9/11. Hopefully that time is more than fleeting...
From the UAL NB FO standpoint in comparison we will be for the foreseeable future about $10 per hour behind you guys in pay. Now there are many scenarios here and there are many ways the future may go but one scenario is that the profit sharing would have to increase from it's current level of roughly 3.8% to roughly 9 to 9.5% to make up that difference in pay. If UAL analysts are to be believed they are forecasting a pre tax margin in Q1 of 7% which without going into boorish details of how our PS works makes this scenario not outside the bounds of possibility. Could UAL and the rest of the industry go in the toilet again? Of course but the minds on Wall Street and Main Street feel the airline business is going to see some hefty profits hence the massive rally in share prices. So, let's not assume that massive industry profits are beyond the realm in the near future and in fact one could argue they have arrived. Ask a DAL guy about his PS check!
I think also from our perspective one must look at QOL under a contract and how much one works to achieve an income. Many of the NB FO's I know who are even junior line holders are clocking about 80 hours a month usually with 14 to 18 days off a month depending on how they finagle PBS. One friend picked up a trip (easy to do here) and is clocking 104 hours next month and still has 14 days off. These guys are showing gross pay ranging from 135K to 150K a year depending on how they play the contract and PBS and thats of course before DC. That seems to be a pretty common scenario from the NB FO's I talk to. So there's a comparison to give you an idea. The UAL contract ain't great, but it ain't bad either.
I think you have to really LIVE a contract to understand it. It's easy to conceptualize a contract from union bullet points or company propaganda but it's hard to understand how it works and why it works until you live it. It's only until you've done some time under it and look at that paycheck is when you can make a truly accurate value judgment and thats the crappy part. It is indeed like a box of chocolates...
I certainly hope for our brothers and sisters at AA you find comfort with your new arrangement....we all deserve some good times as we have been working these flight decks to get this industry to this point of consolidation...and it has been a long ugly path to travail.
First off, I am genuinely glad for the AA, US and AW guys who have been suffering financial hardships since this whole industry went in the toilet. You all deserve to live well, relax for a short time and enjoy some good life. I sincerely hope ALL of you can just for even the briefest of moments be peaceful and be rid of the poisonous effects of your struggles since 9/11. Hopefully that time is more than fleeting...
From the UAL NB FO standpoint in comparison we will be for the foreseeable future about $10 per hour behind you guys in pay. Now there are many scenarios here and there are many ways the future may go but one scenario is that the profit sharing would have to increase from it's current level of roughly 3.8% to roughly 9 to 9.5% to make up that difference in pay. If UAL analysts are to be believed they are forecasting a pre tax margin in Q1 of 7% which without going into boorish details of how our PS works makes this scenario not outside the bounds of possibility. Could UAL and the rest of the industry go in the toilet again? Of course but the minds on Wall Street and Main Street feel the airline business is going to see some hefty profits hence the massive rally in share prices. So, let's not assume that massive industry profits are beyond the realm in the near future and in fact one could argue they have arrived. Ask a DAL guy about his PS check!
I think also from our perspective one must look at QOL under a contract and how much one works to achieve an income. Many of the NB FO's I know who are even junior line holders are clocking about 80 hours a month usually with 14 to 18 days off a month depending on how they finagle PBS. One friend picked up a trip (easy to do here) and is clocking 104 hours next month and still has 14 days off. These guys are showing gross pay ranging from 135K to 150K a year depending on how they play the contract and PBS and thats of course before DC. That seems to be a pretty common scenario from the NB FO's I talk to. So there's a comparison to give you an idea. The UAL contract ain't great, but it ain't bad either.
I think you have to really LIVE a contract to understand it. It's easy to conceptualize a contract from union bullet points or company propaganda but it's hard to understand how it works and why it works until you live it. It's only until you've done some time under it and look at that paycheck is when you can make a truly accurate value judgment and thats the crappy part. It is indeed like a box of chocolates...
I certainly hope for our brothers and sisters at AA you find comfort with your new arrangement....we all deserve some good times as we have been working these flight decks to get this industry to this point of consolidation...and it has been a long ugly path to travail.
Last edited by dvhighdrive88; 01-30-2015 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Typos
01-30-2015, 12:32 PM
#58
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by A321
110 seats. Boeing 717 | Delta Air Lines
a. Group I: With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below, any aircraft configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats, including E190/195, CRJ-1000, MRJ- 100, and Bombardier CS100.
a. Group I: With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below, any aircraft configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats, including E190/195, CRJ-1000, MRJ- 100, and Bombardier CS100.
01-30-2015, 12:45 PM
#59
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Originally Posted by inline five
Completely discarding leasing as an option is just as naive. It makes sense in various situations.
It all depends on what you want and where you put priorities.
It all depends on what you want and where you put priorities.
If you sold cars at a dealership then you understand how leases work.
If you know how to negotiate a lease you can avoid getting your "head knocked off" so to speak... But there is no reason to get a lease unless your end all be all priority is to be in a squeaky new car all the time (if that's your goal, then fine). Regardless, you will pay for it.
Anyone who voted Yes on Parker's first offer while he is making Billions, has absolutely no hope of successfully negotiating a lease on a car and keeping their head, so to speak.
01-30-2015, 01:36 PM
#60
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: B767A[ret.]
Posts: 593
Here is a link to the contract, if it hasn't been posted already. I had to reload it each time I checked it to get it to work. Put you to sleep pretty quickly-
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzB...RzU0ZnWVU/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzB...RzU0ZnWVU/view
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