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An important video for AMR/LCC pilots

Old 12-25-2012, 04:24 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by CaptainBigWood View Post
Wiskey Driver and Cacti, you have saved USAirways East pilots from liquidation? Thank you pilots for making management decisions and arranging the financing.
The East franchise is where the value has always been in this code sharing airline. If the East franchise had no value it would have been liquidated. All new major routes are going to the East due to the strength of the franchise. You Westies are doing 30% of the former East flying due to the weakness of the West franchise. So who really is stealing jobs? It is your golden boy DP who is hiring and has built up excessive staffing on the East side. There are pilots who barely fly 10 hours a month on the East? Why did DP say no recalls on the West in the crew news? Because the West franchise is a leisure market according to DP, weak in revenue.
If APA and USAPA can not come to an agreement outside of another arbitration the deal may be dead. Your DFR is the toxic deal breaker in consolidation, not DOH with fences. Management doesn't care about the NIC or DOH. Management will keep APA happy.
You missed the point entirely!! This had nothing at all to do with who is flying whose routes or what portions had value. This is about one thing and one thing only. The east chose the arbitration, they chose the arbitrator and they chose the neutral. The decision was made and then they did the criminal and have stolen for 6 years. Thru the east actions they have allowed a management team to very effectively run and whipsaw operation not to mention close a base outside of the proper process which resulted in down grades and stagnation. Now sure the east system had value but not until properly managed and you know this is true or else the east would not have been in bk twice in a 3 year period.

Now you say management doest care which way they go, I say you are incorrect there too. They do care or else the east would have been allowed to complete their bully method. The place is a lawsuit looking for a jury to award damages for if it were not again you would have been allowed to complete your mission.

WD at AWA
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:39 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by MongoC5 View Post
Well at least this thing turned into another east-west biotch fest...Merry Christmas everyone!

Mongo
Exactly. Playing right into management's game set up... this thread started with a video advocating unity and working together and having a few merger related shared sacrifices in order to create the world's largest and arguably the strongest airline. United and Delta have blown past AMR/LCC... are the pilots going to get together on the same page and work together at a strong viable carrier, or stay obsessed with East vs West mess.

Under the NDA nothing official has been released about DOH, fences, anything, so why don't we just chill and think about whats best long term for everyone, not just ME.


http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12...-american.html

Last edited by nwa757; 12-25-2012 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:54 AM
  #43  
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Feliz Navidad !
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:50 AM
  #44  
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[QUOTE=nwa757;1318453]Exactly. Playing right into management's game set up... this thread started with a video advocating unity and working together and having a few merger related shared sacrifices in order to create the world's largest and arguably the strongest airline. United and Delta have blown past AMR/LCC... are the pilots going to get together on the same page and work together at a strong viable carrier, or stay obsessed with East vs West mess.

Under the NDA nothing official has been released about DOH, fences, anything, so why don't we just chill and think about whats best long term for everyone, not just ME.


Merger would strengthen American, if pilots cooperate, Crandall says | Airlines and Aviati...[/

Well said! Thankfully these clowns are a minority. No matter what the subject they always drop the same turd. Both sides have a chance to better their careers and they had rather b1tch and spew venom by name calling on a web board. How manly. Comical, no actually pitiful when you think about it.
CG
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #45  
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Priority number one for East and West pilots should be making sure this merger gets implemented.

This merger would be the ultimake Christmas present in career expectation—File the lawsuits post CBA.

West inherits the Earth regardless of SLI method.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:39 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by flybywire44 View Post
Priority number one for East and West pilots should be making sure this merger gets implemented.

This merger would be the ultimake Christmas present in career expectation—File the lawsuits post CBA.

West inherits the Earth regardless of SLI method.
This smells like someone who hopes for a piggyback ride to utopia. Could you elaborate on your statements of Christmas-like career expectations for U pilots and how the West will "inherit the earth" ?

Sounds like you expect an Arizona conga line to AA narrowbody and wide body captains slots.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:33 PM
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quick question, a Senior CA on the 757 at West/Old Cactus, how does he get intergrated into AA ?

Stay on same equipment ?
Etc ? Etc stuff
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:42 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
quick question, a Senior CA on the 757 at West/Old Cactus, how does he get intergrated into AA ?

Stay on same equipment ?
Etc ? Etc stuff
Only an arbitrator will be able to answer that question.

Rest assured that SOMEBODY will still sue and try to block the implementation no matter what the resultant list were to look like.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:22 PM
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Mr. Crandall was correct. Everyone has to agree BEFORE a merger. Keep in mind that in 7 years most of the East will be gone. BOTH sides need to keep this in mind.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
This smells like someone who hopes for a piggyback ride to utopia. Could you elaborate on your statements of Christmas-like career expectations for U pilots and how the West will "inherit the earth" ?

Sounds like you expect an Arizona conga line to AA narrowbody and wide body captains slots.


The merger would enhance the competitiveness, job security and carrer expectation of all three pilot groups as a whole.


Letter to APA Pilots Opposing US Airways Merger

Dear APA Pilots Opposing US Airways Merger,


I appreciate your prudent concern towards the possible merger. This is a time that every American and US Airways pilot should be weighing the risks and merits of the proposed merger.


As you are aware, many third party investment advisors have considered the prospects of an American and US Airways Merger. The weight of their findings and how it would enhance the careers of American pilots has been staggering:
    • AirlineFinancials.com - 20APR2012 - "American_and_US_Airways_ver_2.pdf" 788K (Attached)
    • Rodman & Renshaw - 26JUL2012 - "LCC Stock Review - LLC Stock Review — Rodman July12.pdf" 360K (Attached)
    • USAPA - Summer 2012 - "AMR & LCC Explained.pdf" 2186K (Attached)
    • Boyd Group International - AMR Bankruptcy... - 1DEC2011 - "AMR Bankruptcy - Time For Reality -- Boyd Group.pdf" 425K (Attached)

    This merger is unique in that American would be merging with the oldest pilot group in the United States. I offer you these statistics to consider:
    • 915 or 18% of US Airways pilots are over age 60 at US Airways.
    • 683 East pilots ≥ 60 years old
    • 232 West pilots ≥ 60 years old
    • A minimum of 1,200 pilots or 24% are expected to retire from US Airways in the next 5 years.
    • ~1900 pilots or 37% will retire from US Airways in the next 7 years.
    • ~8% of US Airways pilots were hired after 2008.
    • American will see ~900 pilots retire in the next 5 years and ~1500 in the next 7.
    • Two classes of 20 pilots will be hired a month at US Airways for the next 5 years—2,400 pilots
    • Your AA Pilot Seniority Loss Chart grossly overlooks the above statistics and more:
    • Loss of a senioity number does not capture the value of the current and future US Airways fleet.
    • The Loss of Pilot Seniority Chart is ~2100 numbers in error by 2017 and ~3400 number off by 2019.
    • Seniority Integration is at least 2 years away—your chart should recognize the 2012-2014 US Airways retirements of 630 pilots in its first data block.
    • Looking down the road it becomes clear that mid to low seniority American pilots will benefit from the retirement of 6,397 pilots between 2019 and 2025.

    The greater number of near-term US Airways retirements represent a short-term opportunity for American Pilots under a Date of Hire seniority scheme.

    US Airways Fleet, aircraft deliveries and growth are also worth considering:
    • Current US Airways Fleet:
    • A330-300: 9, A330-200: 7, 767-200ER: 10, 757-200: 24, A321: 75, A320: 72, 737-400: 32, A319: 93, E190: 20
    • US Airways has 5 A330-200 deliveries in 2013 and 3 A330-200 deliveries in 2014.
    • Deliveries of 18 A350-800 and 4 A350-900 are scheduled to begin in 2017 and extend through 2019 Is this order is a overstated??? Did not US Airways cancel some of these orders?
    • 16 A321 deliveries to replace retiring B737-400s in 2013; 30 A320 family aircraft scheduled to be delivered between 2014 and 2015
    • CLT-London Heathrow (LHR) daily service on A330-200 aircraft to begin in March 2013
    • CLT-Sao Paulo, Brazil (GRU) daily service on B767-200ER aircraft to begin in May 2013
    • PHL-Shannon, Ireland (SNN) seasonal daily service on B757-200 aircraft to resume in May 2013 after a four year hiatus
    • CLT-Sao Paulo, Brazil (GRU) daily service to begin in early 2013 with 767-200ER
    • Route authority for additional daily service to GRU starting in 2015 was acquired from Delta in 2012.


    I encourage you to realize that the United States and other western economies are in financial decline. Deceptive market metrics and inflationary monitory policies are effectively masking the lasting damage from the 2008 recession. I invite you to visit the website shadowstats.com. Western economies will continue to decline. America will see increased taxation, austerity and slow GDP growth. No fundamental change has been made to the American economy since 2008. Survival of American as a preeminent airline necessitates consolidation for longterm survival. Who is John Gault?


    Is American suited to stand alone if Sabotage comes to America? Is American suited to weather another economic recession? How exposed would American be if a recession occurred during the merger?


    American needs to be bigger in order to compete. Absent a merger, American otherwise may face a "slow death" from Delta (and VA), United, Spirit, Southwest, foreign carriers and US Airways with its industry-lacking, but ultra competitive pilot contract. I implore you to imagine for a second how the addition of US Airways passenger feed would drive substantial upgaging and international growth. Analysts repeatedly state that merged American could support growth in Asia. What about Australia and Africa?


    The possibility of AMR/LCC Seniority List Integration is at least two years away and would likely be implemented lastly after CBA. This timeline is currently being negotiated by APA and USAPA. A simple and conservative 3 year fence from date of SLI would preserve AA flying for 5 years from today. This would give the Unsecured Creditors Committee productivity sooner and allow American pilots to realize 1,200 or 24% of US Airways pilot retirements. Maybe American pilots will require a longer seniority fence? Further restrictions including protection of widebody flying should also be considered. However, I do concede the disadvantageous nature of a SLI that incorporates the Nicolai award to American pilots, but even still the benefits and of a merged American cannot be outweighed. American and US Airways pilots should embrace this merger as an opportunity with an open-minded spirit of cooperation and compromise.


    A merger is bigger than any of us and we owe it to each other as pilots to collect all of the facts first before we decide whether or not to build the worlds biggest airline—American Airways.


    Thank you for your consideration.


    American Airlines + US Airways Retirments

    Code:
    Year	Age	AMR	LCC	Total	Movement	Rel Seniority
    2012	41	5	10	15	15		0.11%
    2013	42	85	184	269	284		2.09%
    2014	43	103	243	346	630		4.65%
    2015	44	130	227	357	987		7.28%
    2016	45	167	269	436	1423		10.49%
    2017	46	255	295	550	1973		14.55%
    2018	47	331	308	639	2612		19.26%
    2019	48	442	329	771	3383		24.95%
    2020	49	545	306	851	4234		31.23%
    2021	50	601	312	913	5147		37.96%
    2022	51	666	263	929	6076		44.81%
    2023	52	710	299	1009	7085		52.25%
    2024	53	725	239	964	8049		59.36%
    2025	54	731	229	960	9009		66.44%
    2026	55	716	?	716	9725		71.72%
    2027	56	599	?	599	10324		76.14%
    2028	57	517	?	517	10841		79.95%
    2029	58	477	?	477	11318		83.47%
    2030	59	416	?	416	11734		86.54%
    2031	60	437	?	437	12171		89.76%
    ****These metrics attempt to approximate Legacy pilot carrer progression from 2012 at AMR/LCC. This is strictly age 65 modeled; with no consideration made for changes in GDP, coming crew rest rules, or aircraft deliveries.


    .

    Last edited by flybywire44; 12-25-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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