How is the operation running?
09-21-2012, 09:17 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
copied from another site, de-identified....what a mess
Good luck AA guys
From an XXX FO:
I'm just here to do a job, my job.
5:00 AM show for a 6 o'clock go in XXX this morning. Took the 4:40 shuttle from the short layover, and after 4 stops, got through security at 5:10. Straight to the jet which sat all night.
Parking brake pressure sat around 2,000 PSI, in the orange band.
3 of the 4 main tires with low pressure.
A chip in a fan blade in the left engine.
Cracked taxi light.
2 of the 3 exterior emergency exit placards under the FO window deteriorated.
Exterior Evacuation Slide placard on the forward galley door deteriorated.
Did I mention this thing sat all night at a maintenance base?
Anyway, a MX team showed up to work. Then they quit. Apparently AA schedules a maintenance shift change right at the morning push with all the so-called critical flights. New team shows up. Work is being done with all the passengers politely watching from their assigned seats. Departure time keeps getting pushed back. At 7:00, the #1 tells us the flight is canceled and they're deadheading on the 7:10 flight to XXX. So are we. Maintenance tells me the jet is OTS because 2 brake metering valves are leaking.
We gather our stuff, (well most of it, my CA left his earpiece in the jet), and head to the new gate. A manager, K, is working the 7:10 flight. He's stressing. Tells us he's putting us on the next flight, not this one, and to leave him alone. No problem, just means we will be late for our return flight, but we aren't in charge of manning, deadheading, scheduling or XXX, so we sit in those cool round red chairs out of the way and watch the show. Long lines, cell phones out everywhere, agents gate checking bags, and the manager running around trying to keep up.
7:10 comes and goes. The gate door is shut. A gate agent makes the following page in the terminal, "K, return to gate X. The captain (working the flight) wants to talk to you." K refused to talk to him. The door opens again, and agents are sending down more passengers. Important-looking people are talking to their respective travel departments and jockeying for position at the gate to get the last few seats. Apparently, they tried to close the flight out with 20 empty seats and a long line at the gate from our canceled flight. The captain called bull.
Our names are called. We weave through the important people to the gate. The agent looks at us, "What's up?" "We don't know, you called our names." "Oh, you're deadheading?" Again, we don't know. "Go sit down." OK.
5 minutes later, our names are called again. "You're on. We're checking your bags." "How will we get our bags in XXX?" They are "Escort Tagged". They will be brought up the jet bridge in XXX with strollers and wheel chairs. "OK, cool". All middle seats in coach, my favorite! We push at 7:33, 23 minutes late. Critical flight canceled and another D+23... We arrive in XXX A+8...
On a side note, our crew breakfasts were not provided on the deadhead, so we hadn't eaten since the night prior.
Our departure back to XXX was scheduled at 12:40, so we figured AA had the flight boarded and ready. We are standing on the jetbridge waiting for our bags. Passengers are deplaning. They're done. The crew leaves and another shows up. Still no bags. Oh , and no keys or vests to go find our bags. We wait. After all, baggage handlers know how to do their jobs, and it's not my job to prod everybody along. We're all highly trained professionals. They board the next flight so we clear the jetbridge into the gate area. They finish and the agent asks us what's going on. We tell her the story. She goes to check. At that time, almost an hour after we arrived, crew tracking calls. "Why aren't you at the next flight?" Captain tells her our story. Here we are. No bags, no manuals, no keys, no nothing. Oh and by the way, we haven't eaten since last night. Tracking says nourishment's hotels and limos' arena.
Tracking calls back. She called the ramp manager. The ramp manager gave her the crew chief's cell phone number. She asked the chief about our bags with the "Escort Tags" on them. He told her no way was he going to carry them up the jetbridge stairs so he left them on the ramp. After a while, he took them to baggage claim. She said he was ****ed. We told her that's fine, just have them delivered to the departure gate, which did board on time, ready to go at 12:40. It's now 13:40-ish.
Nobody can deliver our "escort bags" to the new gate, so we go outside security and grab 'em. Come back through security in D, catch the train over to C and to the new gate. No agent, door shut. (Remember when a key would allow us to get to the jet? Not my problem anymore.) Screw it. I walk to McDonald's. Did I mention we hadn't eaten since the night before and it's 14:00 now?. I get back to the gate. The captain's studying the 18-foot-long flight plan. The agent lets me down the jetbridge.
Upon entering the jet, the flight attendant says, "Can you make a PA and tell these passengers why you're late?" She's standing next to a first class passenger in the galley. I say, "Well hi there, I'm Bill. How are you?" Eyeballing my little McDonald's bag, she says, "I'm not getting paid, we boarded over an hour ago, and I can't get off to get food like you have." "Hey I'm sorry, we haven't eaten since yesterday. We deadheaded in and AA lost our bags." I look at the passenger and say, "Hey there, how are you? Can you believe AA would lose our luggage?" He understood and was in a good mood. No problem with him. Just the FA.
I walk around the jet. The captain comes down and we start making our nests. "Cabin's ready." SLAM. Ahhhh, peace behind the cockpit door. I've come to really like that door over the years. We're loading the box, flipping switches, all that cool stuff we do before we get paid. DING, DING. Captain answers, Yes? "Why aren't we moving yet?" Well, we just got here. Now we're running all those checklists we do before we go fly. A few minutes later, DING, DING. Yess? "Can you make a PA and tell these passengers why we're still sitting here?" I'm not making this up.
Finally time to push. 14:50 local. D+130 minutes. BANG. The tow bar breaks. DING, DING. Yesss? "What was that??" Don't worry about it. We have it under control. Please let us do our jobs. MX inspects the jet. No problem. Meanwhile, the agent lets PAX off - without their bags... We can't leave without them. We finally push at 15:52 local. D+192.
After the flight, one of the passenger got in the captain's face as he was deplaning, pointed his finger in his face and said, "You're a THUG! A union THUG! The captain replied, "Sir, you don't know me, but I assure you I'm nothing like that." Yes you ARE! A union THUG! and left.
Maintenance came on and asked who the thug is. Captain fessed up. He laughed. Then he talked about a flight that canceled this morning because the crew "wrote up 19 items 20 minutes before departure". He got a bull[Content Deleted] look from the captain. Then he said, "Of course, the jet did sit here all night with our night shift."
We get to the hotel and on the elevator. A guy says, "Hey, you're not the pilots that just came in from XXX..." We braced and admitted it. No punches, but he said, "We heard you went to lunch before coming to the plane." He knows that not to be true now.
The hardest part about this day was refraining from repeatedly stepping into the other departments and telling fellow employees what needs to be done. It is engrained in usto anticipate and fix problems we see coming. Once I overcame the urge to tell others how to do their jobs, it actually became quite entertaining to watch the operation.
My advice to you is to not let the frustration of watching others without guidance raise your blood pressure, but to embrace the comedy of errors that ensues.
Do your job. No one else's. Do not tell others what needs to be done. Do not continually follow up. You called MX once. They are aware. No need to stress them out. The agent told you to sit down. She knows you're there. Don't stress her out. Roll with the flow. They're all highly-trained professionals.
It's a hard habit to break.
Good luck AA guys
From an XXX FO:
I'm just here to do a job, my job.
5:00 AM show for a 6 o'clock go in XXX this morning. Took the 4:40 shuttle from the short layover, and after 4 stops, got through security at 5:10. Straight to the jet which sat all night.
Parking brake pressure sat around 2,000 PSI, in the orange band.
3 of the 4 main tires with low pressure.
A chip in a fan blade in the left engine.
Cracked taxi light.
2 of the 3 exterior emergency exit placards under the FO window deteriorated.
Exterior Evacuation Slide placard on the forward galley door deteriorated.
Did I mention this thing sat all night at a maintenance base?
Anyway, a MX team showed up to work. Then they quit. Apparently AA schedules a maintenance shift change right at the morning push with all the so-called critical flights. New team shows up. Work is being done with all the passengers politely watching from their assigned seats. Departure time keeps getting pushed back. At 7:00, the #1 tells us the flight is canceled and they're deadheading on the 7:10 flight to XXX. So are we. Maintenance tells me the jet is OTS because 2 brake metering valves are leaking.
We gather our stuff, (well most of it, my CA left his earpiece in the jet), and head to the new gate. A manager, K, is working the 7:10 flight. He's stressing. Tells us he's putting us on the next flight, not this one, and to leave him alone. No problem, just means we will be late for our return flight, but we aren't in charge of manning, deadheading, scheduling or XXX, so we sit in those cool round red chairs out of the way and watch the show. Long lines, cell phones out everywhere, agents gate checking bags, and the manager running around trying to keep up.
7:10 comes and goes. The gate door is shut. A gate agent makes the following page in the terminal, "K, return to gate X. The captain (working the flight) wants to talk to you." K refused to talk to him. The door opens again, and agents are sending down more passengers. Important-looking people are talking to their respective travel departments and jockeying for position at the gate to get the last few seats. Apparently, they tried to close the flight out with 20 empty seats and a long line at the gate from our canceled flight. The captain called bull.
Our names are called. We weave through the important people to the gate. The agent looks at us, "What's up?" "We don't know, you called our names." "Oh, you're deadheading?" Again, we don't know. "Go sit down." OK.
5 minutes later, our names are called again. "You're on. We're checking your bags." "How will we get our bags in XXX?" They are "Escort Tagged". They will be brought up the jet bridge in XXX with strollers and wheel chairs. "OK, cool". All middle seats in coach, my favorite! We push at 7:33, 23 minutes late. Critical flight canceled and another D+23... We arrive in XXX A+8...
On a side note, our crew breakfasts were not provided on the deadhead, so we hadn't eaten since the night prior.
Our departure back to XXX was scheduled at 12:40, so we figured AA had the flight boarded and ready. We are standing on the jetbridge waiting for our bags. Passengers are deplaning. They're done. The crew leaves and another shows up. Still no bags. Oh , and no keys or vests to go find our bags. We wait. After all, baggage handlers know how to do their jobs, and it's not my job to prod everybody along. We're all highly trained professionals. They board the next flight so we clear the jetbridge into the gate area. They finish and the agent asks us what's going on. We tell her the story. She goes to check. At that time, almost an hour after we arrived, crew tracking calls. "Why aren't you at the next flight?" Captain tells her our story. Here we are. No bags, no manuals, no keys, no nothing. Oh and by the way, we haven't eaten since last night. Tracking says nourishment's hotels and limos' arena.
Tracking calls back. She called the ramp manager. The ramp manager gave her the crew chief's cell phone number. She asked the chief about our bags with the "Escort Tags" on them. He told her no way was he going to carry them up the jetbridge stairs so he left them on the ramp. After a while, he took them to baggage claim. She said he was ****ed. We told her that's fine, just have them delivered to the departure gate, which did board on time, ready to go at 12:40. It's now 13:40-ish.
Nobody can deliver our "escort bags" to the new gate, so we go outside security and grab 'em. Come back through security in D, catch the train over to C and to the new gate. No agent, door shut. (Remember when a key would allow us to get to the jet? Not my problem anymore.) Screw it. I walk to McDonald's. Did I mention we hadn't eaten since the night before and it's 14:00 now?. I get back to the gate. The captain's studying the 18-foot-long flight plan. The agent lets me down the jetbridge.
Upon entering the jet, the flight attendant says, "Can you make a PA and tell these passengers why you're late?" She's standing next to a first class passenger in the galley. I say, "Well hi there, I'm Bill. How are you?" Eyeballing my little McDonald's bag, she says, "I'm not getting paid, we boarded over an hour ago, and I can't get off to get food like you have." "Hey I'm sorry, we haven't eaten since yesterday. We deadheaded in and AA lost our bags." I look at the passenger and say, "Hey there, how are you? Can you believe AA would lose our luggage?" He understood and was in a good mood. No problem with him. Just the FA.
I walk around the jet. The captain comes down and we start making our nests. "Cabin's ready." SLAM. Ahhhh, peace behind the cockpit door. I've come to really like that door over the years. We're loading the box, flipping switches, all that cool stuff we do before we get paid. DING, DING. Captain answers, Yes? "Why aren't we moving yet?" Well, we just got here. Now we're running all those checklists we do before we go fly. A few minutes later, DING, DING. Yess? "Can you make a PA and tell these passengers why we're still sitting here?" I'm not making this up.
Finally time to push. 14:50 local. D+130 minutes. BANG. The tow bar breaks. DING, DING. Yesss? "What was that??" Don't worry about it. We have it under control. Please let us do our jobs. MX inspects the jet. No problem. Meanwhile, the agent lets PAX off - without their bags... We can't leave without them. We finally push at 15:52 local. D+192.
After the flight, one of the passenger got in the captain's face as he was deplaning, pointed his finger in his face and said, "You're a THUG! A union THUG! The captain replied, "Sir, you don't know me, but I assure you I'm nothing like that." Yes you ARE! A union THUG! and left.
Maintenance came on and asked who the thug is. Captain fessed up. He laughed. Then he talked about a flight that canceled this morning because the crew "wrote up 19 items 20 minutes before departure". He got a bull[Content Deleted] look from the captain. Then he said, "Of course, the jet did sit here all night with our night shift."
We get to the hotel and on the elevator. A guy says, "Hey, you're not the pilots that just came in from XXX..." We braced and admitted it. No punches, but he said, "We heard you went to lunch before coming to the plane." He knows that not to be true now.
The hardest part about this day was refraining from repeatedly stepping into the other departments and telling fellow employees what needs to be done. It is engrained in usto anticipate and fix problems we see coming. Once I overcame the urge to tell others how to do their jobs, it actually became quite entertaining to watch the operation.
My advice to you is to not let the frustration of watching others without guidance raise your blood pressure, but to embrace the comedy of errors that ensues.
Do your job. No one else's. Do not tell others what needs to be done. Do not continually follow up. You called MX once. They are aware. No need to stress them out. The agent told you to sit down. She knows you're there. Don't stress her out. Roll with the flow. They're all highly-trained professionals.
It's a hard habit to break.
09-21-2012, 09:25 AM
#82
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by LostInPA
Yeah, I probably did. Still confused by the 'don't want to chat with the pilots', part. 
Not really a fan of the 'pilots are the least public' part, either.
I guess I can't figure out what the point was.
Not really a fan of the 'pilots are the least public' part, either.
I guess I can't figure out what the point was.
If this is the wrong attitude the I'm sorry.
09-21-2012, 09:29 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: B737 F/O
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by jabone
You guys have a job to do. I don't like people interrupting me when I am preparing to do the most important parts of my job. I consider it respect. Not that a pilot is some foreign scary thing to be avoided. I do say "thanks" if you are close by when I am exiting. But I won't engage you in conversation because you guys have my safety at your hands and I would rather you focus on the task at hand.
If this is the wrong attitude the I'm sorry.
If this is the wrong attitude the I'm sorry.
Totally mis-read what you were trying to say earlier, disregard my first post. I didn't realize you were referring to deplaning. Sorry about that. Definitely give us a shout out and always happy to talk if we have a minute!
09-21-2012, 09:38 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
So I will ask again, as a consumer what should I know?
What exactly do you expect us to say to you?
Oh yes, the "work only 60 hours" thing that simply never, ever dies. We are PAID only when the aircraft is in motion. Everything else we do, we do for free. The 60 hours (more normally 85 to 95) is a paycheck device, not an indication of our work level.
Most people consider work to equate to "How many hours am I away from home, being forced to do stuff I'd rather not?" By that standard, we work as hard (or harder) than other jobs considered full-time.
09-21-2012, 09:39 AM
#85
Fun Officer
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 515
Here is what AA just emailed their AAdvantage frequent flyers this morning:
"The recent delays are due to the increase in maintenance write-ups by our pilots, many right at the time of departure. Our maintenance teams are responding appropriately to such reports, which may cause interruptions in our schedules. I know you will agree that nothing is more important than running a safe and reliable operation. Ensuring the safety of our customers is always our highest priority."
"The recent delays are due to the increase in maintenance write-ups by our pilots, many right at the time of departure. Our maintenance teams are responding appropriately to such reports, which may cause interruptions in our schedules. I know you will agree that nothing is more important than running a safe and reliable operation. Ensuring the safety of our customers is always our highest priority."
09-21-2012, 09:41 AM
#86
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by LostInPA
It's all good, jabone.
Totally mis-read what you were trying to say earlier, disregard my first post. I didn't realize you were referring to deplaning. Sorry about that. Definitely give us a shout out and always happy to talk if we have a minute!
Totally mis-read what you were trying to say earlier, disregard my first post. I didn't realize you were referring to deplaning. Sorry about that. Definitely give us a shout out and always happy to talk if we have a minute!
The pilots are a very public part of the operation, and the ones I wouldn't mind sitting down with to learn more of their lives. Trust me I don't want to flip a switch, push a button or be anywhere close to cockpit. But the last thing I want to do is distract the departure process.
Would like to hear what your longer response would have been.
09-21-2012, 09:54 AM
#87
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by ForeverFO
Re-book travel to another airline would be your best bet. Please write a letter to AA and complain. They may send you some sort of nifty voucher... maybe a meal coupon to Chili's or Red River BBQ. You never know...
What exactly do you expect us to say to you?
Oh yes, the "work only 60 hours" thing that simply never, ever dies. We are PAID only when the aircraft is in motion. Everything else we do, we do for free. The 60 hours (more normally 85 to 95) is a paycheck device, not an indication of our work level.
Most people consider work to equate to "How many hours am I away from home, being forced to do stuff I'd rather not?" By that standard, we work as hard (or harder) than other jobs considered full-time.
What exactly do you expect us to say to you?
Oh yes, the "work only 60 hours" thing that simply never, ever dies. We are PAID only when the aircraft is in motion. Everything else we do, we do for free. The 60 hours (more normally 85 to 95) is a paycheck device, not an indication of our work level.
Most people consider work to equate to "How many hours am I away from home, being forced to do stuff I'd rather not?" By that standard, we work as hard (or harder) than other jobs considered full-time.
You aren't alone in the hours away from the house. I wanted to do a write up on the other side of the arrive at 5:00am post above to give you my perspective of that, but we are all going through and living the same grind.
btw, the my 60 hours a month comment comes from this thread:
Originally Posted by ForeverFO
I've been averaging maybe 66 hours a month for over a decade. In 20 years I have not taken a single make-up trip. Not one. I fly my line, usually less than my line.
I am on here to better understand why, to gain some empathy, AND to see what it is that I am dealing with on a better level.
I have thick skin, so I can take whatever you guys dish out.
09-21-2012, 10:06 AM
#88
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by jabone
I was rebooked on UA today because of one of the canceled flights. I am sure UA is a nice airlines and all, but it is not where I have spent the last 20 years building up a real affinity.
You aren't alone in the hours away from the house. I wanted to do a write up on the other side of the arrive at 5:00am post above to give you my perspective of that, but we are all going through and living the same grind.
btw, the my 60 hours a month comment comes from this thread:
So when someone uninformed comes on here and starts reading about time "worked" (and I put that in quotes now so I don't get slammed.) at 66 hours a month, which is less than half of the normal work month, people wonder what is going on. I am sure you have heard the comments.
I am on here to better understand why, to gain some empathy, AND to see what it is that I am dealing with on a better level.
I have thick skin, so I can take whatever you guys dish out.
You aren't alone in the hours away from the house. I wanted to do a write up on the other side of the arrive at 5:00am post above to give you my perspective of that, but we are all going through and living the same grind.
btw, the my 60 hours a month comment comes from this thread:
So when someone uninformed comes on here and starts reading about time "worked" (and I put that in quotes now so I don't get slammed.) at 66 hours a month, which is less than half of the normal work month, people wonder what is going on. I am sure you have heard the comments.
I am on here to better understand why, to gain some empathy, AND to see what it is that I am dealing with on a better level.
I have thick skin, so I can take whatever you guys dish out.
09-21-2012, 10:21 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: B737 F/O
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by jabone
Would like to hear what your longer response would have been.
As a pilot not affiliated with AA, I truly wish I could give you an answer. All I can tell you for sure is that NO ONE will fly an aircraft that is less than 100% legal and safe to fly. Just a quick overview on a misunderstood process. If an item on an aircraft is written up in the maintenance logbook by a flight crewmember, there’s something wrong with it. Even if the problem seems small (such as a missing sticker/placard), it’s black and white in our world:
The item is either
A)Legal for dispatch
or
B)Must be repaired/deferred in some way.
There are no ‘minor’ problems as far as the FAA is concerned. The aircraft is either legal or not. The so-called ‘motivation’ for writing up discrepancies (the company‘s 'angry pilots' argument), IMO, is irrelevant. I know of no airline that would not crack down harshly on false maintenance write-ups. A knowingly false write-up would involve the falsification of a legal document, the aircraft’s log book. Crews will not jeopardize their licenses to ‘get back’ at the company. It’s not worth it, even though the media/company would never admit it.
The media started circulating that increasing numbers of maintenance cancellations and delays were a result of unhappy pilots. This appears to be corroborated by massive increases in delays/cancellations since the APA contract was abrogated. Never mind that several of these days experienced severe weather on the East Coast, causing cascading problems throughout the AA system. Never mind that the AA pilot group has been telling management they are understaffed for months. Easier to take the media’s line and run with it. Then, to further add, send communication to frequent flyers emphasizing this.
The current situation at AA is another unfortunate example of institutional failure blamed on the employee, as well as the time-tested airline tradition of pitting labor groups inside the company against one another. nwaf16dude's post earlier contains a great example of this.
I know this wasn’t the answer you were looking for, but just trying to provide a summary of what I see. Just my opinion. Not trying to speak for any group. Best of luck with your travels.
AA folks, I’ll withdraw from this topic if you feel I’m speaking out of line.
Last edited by LostInPA; 09-21-2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason: addition
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