Airline Pilot Forums

I have tried several times to find out the real opener that NWA put forth in the negotiations on the SLI. A friend who flies for NWA and has some connections with the MEC was going to get it. He told me that the MEC will not release it and does not want it put out because it would only serve to inflame things. The DALPA MEC opener has been put out and is well know. With the recent harsh statements of the NWA MEC chairman the NWA opener is the key to understanding what transpired and how things will transpire in the future. The rumor which has been confirmed by a couple of people involved in our MEC as very close is as follows. First 1000 spots to NWA. Next 1000 spots a ratio that put 30 Delta pilots in that mix. Then a ratio through the rest of the list that left about 2000 Delta pilots on the bottom. This needs to be sorted out. If it is remotely close to the opener then we know NWA never intended to reach a agreement in negotiations and arbitration was the plan all along. If the opener was DOH or a more fair ratio then we would know that a good faith effort was made on the part of NWA.

To the NWA MEC, Put your opener out in print!!!!!!!!
End the rumors!!!!!!!!

Your rumor sounds identical to what I heard by a member of the DL merger committee. I'll bet you a beer we'll never see anything in print.

J

While I agree seeing the opener would be interesting, what would be considerably MORE useful is the FINAL position from each side.

Negotiations are just that, but it's where you wind up that's important.

Nu

The DALPA MEC opener has been put out and is well know.

Where is the DALPA opener? Could you post a link to it? And make sure the link shows the opener signed by people who were actually in the room as opposed to rumor.

As for the rest of your post I agree, I would love to know for sure. I've heard rumors (from very high up) that our opener was straight DOH like the last merger, but I can't get it confirmed in writing by people who were in the room.

Carl

I heard nwa put together a group of pilots from different segments of the seniority to get imput on how their seniority range should be considered in a merging. I also heard that they never actually met. Is that true. If they put them together why didn't they actually meet?

disclaimer. I don't know if this group was actually made or just an idea someone put together. that's why I said I heard...

I heard nwa put together a group of pilots from different segments of the seniority to get imput on how their seniority range should be considered in a merging. I also heard that they never actually met. Is that true. If they put them together why didn't they actually meet?

disclaimer. I don't know if this group was actually made or just an idea someone put together. that's why I said I heard...

The group was made. I'm sure they met because I've seen some post from DAL guys on here talking about them.

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

I'll check on that for you.

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

I guess you don't have to do that big psyche test and interview to get on at NWA.:D Geez!?!:eek:

We had to take it. We had to PASS!

I guess you don't have to do that big psyche test and interview to get on at NWA.:D Geez!?!:eek:


Why sent guys to see a shrink if you're gong to over-ride his opinion?

Why sent guys to see a shrink if you're gong to over-ride his opinion?

Its send not "sent" in the context you used for the sentence. We also had an aptitude test to pass.;)

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

???????????? I'd switch to Count Chocula now. The crunch has gone to your head.

Its send not "sent" in the context you used for the sentence. We also had an aptitude test to pass.;)

Yeah.....guess the fingers got a little ahead. Maybe when I retired I left my aptitude behind..........

I'm reposting this because nobody from Delta responded. It was in response to someone that said the Delta opener is out there in print and is well known.

Where is the DALPA opener? Could you post a link to it? And make sure the link shows the opener signed by people who were actually in the room as opposed to rumor.

As for the rest of your post I agree, I would love to know for sure. I've heard rumors (from very high up) that our opener was straight DOH like the last merger, but I can't get it confirmed in writing by people who were in the room.

Carl

It's possible that both sides agreed not to release specifics, at least until some later time. If so, even confirming or denying a rumor might inflame tempers and hinder negotiations.

It's possible that both sides agreed not to release specifics, at least until some later time. If so, even confirming or denying a rumor might inflame tempers and hinder negotiations.

You could be right Tom, but this was posted earlier by a fellow named "sailingfun"

"The DALPA MEC opener has been put out and is well know."

I'm sure he meant "well known" but he probably isn't a real Delta pilot anyway. :D

Carl

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

ROTFLMAO!! Nicely done Cap'n..:D

You could be right Tom, but this was posted earlier by a fellow named "sailingfun"

"The DALPA MEC opener has been put out and is well know."

I'm sure he meant "well known" but he probably isn't a real Delta pilot anyway. :D

Carl

Carl, The letter from the Delta MEC chairman was posted here already with the Delta proposal. I will repost one paragraph again. The reps have been in the lounges and they all said that every pilot stayed within 1/2% of their current position. It was a straight ratio not a ratio by equipment or pay which would have been better for most Delta pilots. We should all try and post the best information we can on these boards. Not crazy statements like Delta has only 100 pilots over age 50. A statement off by only a factor of around 20!!!!

"We were not, however, in a traditional merger scenario. We were breaking new ground and held before us a unique opportunity, but the window for that opportunity was narrow and not able to accommodate either the lengthy timeline or the adversarial relationship of the traditional approach. With that in mind, we approached the negotiating table not at an extreme, but in the middle; not adversarial, but cooperative. We presented a rational and fair integration method that would have provided all pilots of the merged corporation with a post-merger relative seniority very close to that of their respective pre-merger relative positions and included an innovative method of preserving premium flying"
- 3 -

I'm reposting this because nobody from Delta responded. It was in response to someone that said the Delta opener is out there in print and is well known.

Where is the DALPA opener? Could you post a link to it? And make sure the link shows the opener signed by people who were actually in the room as opposed to rumor.

As for the rest of your post I agree, I would love to know for sure. I've heard rumors (from very high up) that our opener was straight DOH like the last merger, but I can't get it confirmed in writing by people who were in the room.

Carl

Carl,
I don't think our MEC put it out in print but I heard the same as Sailingfun - all pilots very close to their pre-merger seniority. Guys are trying to get the MEC to relesase the details but they are guarding the proposed lists more closely than Colonel Sanders protects his chicken recipe -for what reason I don't know.
Scoop

Here's the MSP boy's answer to why we can't see the offers. I added the (out) because I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be in there.


Q: Can we see the seniority list that NWA turned down? The one that Delta turned down?
A: The seniority list negotiations were conducted outside of ALPA merger process. Our agreement prior to entering negotiations was that the negotiating positions used by one side could not be brought into the ALPA merger process by the other side. This agreement allowed both sides the ability to make proposals with(out) fear that their position would be compromised if the ALPA merger process is used. However, any list or proposal publicized outside of the negotiations is not covered and could be used in the arbitration process.

The MEC was kept updated on the seniority list negotiations. While we didn’t review specific lists, we were briefed on the general direction of negotiations. The Merger Committee and the MEC unanimously agreed that the list must be fair to both sides. There were innovative and promising proposals on the table before the DAL MEC Chairman ended negotiations.

"We were not, however, in a traditional merger scenario. We were breaking new ground and held before us a unique opportunity, but the window for that opportunity was narrow and not able to accommodate either the lengthy timeline or the adversarial relationship of the traditional approach. With that in mind, we approached the negotiating table not at an extreme, but in the middle; not adversarial, but cooperative. We presented a rational and fair integration method that would have provided all pilots of the merged corporation with a post-merger relative seniority very close to that of their respective pre-merger relative positions and included an innovative method of preserving premium flying"


Sailing,

That is not the proposal. It is Lee Moak's very generalized statement of what the SLI proposal entailed. That's no different than the email from the NWA MEC that stated our proposal was also a ratio that didn't include the options for future Delta aircraft.

An accurate portrayal is what was said by Scoop when he stated: "I don't think our MEC put it out in print but I heard the same as Sailingfun." The Kentucky Fried Chicken secret recipe was a very nice touch as well. Once again, email statements are not the SLI proposals. I would like to see (and others have stated they would like to see) the openers...signed by the folks who were actually in the room.

Carl

F16 Dude,

I think you're probably on to something. That ending comment from our guy stating that Delta was the one that walked away could just be spin. We don't know that for certain.

Carl

That ending comment from our guy stating that Delta was the one that walked away could just be spin. We don't know that for certain.

Carl

The funny thing is, you would think that whichever side walked away would be using that as a selling tool to their pilots, "See we have the cajones to walk away to get a better deal for you." Yet each side blames the other for walking away. Both MECs don't want to release the openers and last proposals because they figure the line pilots at both carriers would be torqued.

The funny thing is, you would think that whichever side walked away would be using that as a selling tool to their pilots, "See we have the cajones to walk away to get a better deal for you." Yet each side blames the other for walking away. Both MECs don't want to release the openers and last proposals because they figure the line pilots at both carriers would be torqued.

Agreed.

Carl

F16 Dude,

I think you're probably on to something. That ending comment from our guy stating that Delta was the one that walked away could just be spin. We don't know that for certain.

Carl

Those are not my words...just a cut and paste from the latest Council 1 update. Any spinning is done my the MSP boys, not me.

I heard a rumor that the NWA MEC wanted to take the Delta MEC out back and execute him Asian style with a sword. He also planned on bringing his head back home and turning it upside down and putting some flowers in it. I don't know if it is true but i got it from some inside sources.

capncrunch you made a funny:D

the sad thing is that the rumor was true and they never did meet. why put together a commitee and never actually have them meet?

I'd like to nominate Carl for the position of the NWA SLI neg. comm. chairman. Do I get a second? He truly shows his loyalty to his pilot group and his dedication to details would make him a true asset in future negotiations between the companies. (I do mean that, but then you guys would need to recall your current guys first:)