Airline Pilot Forums

Many NWA pilots are being fed "facts" about Delta's debt. Here are the actual numbers from the 10Q reports at each airline.


There has been some misinformation about Delta's debt load vs. Northwest. I went to each company's latest 10-K Annual Report and compiled the following table (all numbers are in millions):
2007 Revenue20082009201020112012TotalNW 12,500 953 1,080 895 1,028 822 10,727 DL 19,200 1,478 1,035 1,857 1,588 1,567 11,489 NW% of Revenue7.6%8.6%7.2%8.2%6.6%85.8%DL% of Revenue7.7%5.4%9.7%8.3%8.2%59.8%Cum %7.6%16.3%23.4%31.6%38.2%Cum %7.7%13.1%22.8%31.0%39.2%
As you can see, the short term debt load of each company is about equal. Long term, Delta has a lower debt load than Northwest. I don't want to spark a debate about which carrier is better off financially, but many Northwest pilots have inferred that Delta has some serious debt problems and is buying Northwest to get bailed out from this debt problem. Some have talked about a huge balloon payment due next year but that is not true. In fact, Delta has less long term debt due next year than Northwest.

Sorry about the formatting. Could not fix it. In summary NWA has revenue of about 12.5 billion a year verses Delta at about 19 Billion a year. Each airline has to service about the same amount of short term debt over the next 5 years from that revenue. Long term NWA has more debt then Delta. in Addition NWA pensions are not funded to the level Delta's remaining pensions are funded and will require additional cash each year.

Finally.....a new thread!

Is the same table you posted on the national ALPA Forum? If you did, thanks I just have one quick question.

The overall numbers are actually better for both of us than I thought.

Ferd

I did not post it on the national forum. I did copy it. I posted it here because I had a NWA pilot tell me yesterday that Delta had a 5 Billion dollar ballon payment due next year. Said the info came straight from his MEC rep. The numbers are actually pretty good. The question is will it be good enough to survive 150 dollar a barrel oil.

I The numbers are actually pretty good. The question is will it be good enough to survive 150 dollar a barrel oil.

Yup, the $150 question. Thanks, I just need to get around to posting my question on the other forum. Who ever did the work, good on'em.


Ferd
NWA

[quote=sailingfun;390267]
I had a NWA pilot tell me yesterday that Delta had a 5 Billion dollar ballon payment due next year. Said the info came straight from his MEC rep.

First it was 3 billion, then 4 billion, now 5 billion. Why don't we just save time and claim that DAL has, as Dr. Evil would say, "A balloon payment of one Trillion Dollars" that by the way, was due yesterday. As we speak, Vito and Johnny "two-thumbs" are about to pay Richard Anderson a visit.;)

Scoop

That's great.

Here's the key. Before or after the merger.

DC-9s/742s parked = NWA furloughs.

MD-88s parked = Delta furloughs.

Let's see how long it takes for NWA guys to squeal like stuck pigs over this fairly self-evident solution. After all, if the NWA balance sheet is so strong...and they have so may more "retirements" coming up...so why not?

I copied this from the National forum:

2007 Revenue 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Total
NW 12,500 953 1,080 895 1,028 822 10,727
DL 19,200 1,478 1,035 1,857 1,588 1,567 11,489

NW % of Revenue 7.6% 8.6% 7.2% 8.2% 6.6% 85.8%
DL % of Revenue 7.7% 5.4% 9.7% 8.3% 8.2% 59.8%

Cum % 7.6% 16.3% 23.4% 31.6% 38.2%
Cum % 7.7% 13.1% 22.8% 31.0% 39.2%

That's great.

Here's the key. Before or after the merger.

DC-9s/742s parked = NWA furloughs.

MD-88s parked = Delta furloughs.

Let's see how long it takes for NWA guys to squeal like stuck pigs over this fairly self-evident solution. After all, if the NWA balance sheet is so strong...and they have so may more "retirements" coming up...so why not?

Geeze Spaceman,

I guess you want to fight forever. The thread doesn't even have anything to do with furloughs or SLI. Give it a rest. :(

New K Now

I don't understand why NWA guys who were previously very vocal about their SLI expectations with DAL are now less so.

Probably because their prospects are even more dismal without a merger.

I don't understand why NWA guys who were previously very vocal about their SLI expectations with DAL are now less so.

Probably because their prospects are even more dismal without a merger.

Ok. I'll bite.

Vocal about SLI expectations with DAL?

Who? How? All I've ever seen NWA guys do is give their positions on fairness for retirements, DOH, ect.

If our airing of positions are less vocal now, maybe it's because it gets old after awhile. Maybe we see your side of the issue and we hope you see ours. The discussion has been going on for over 5 months you know. It's played out and old, if you know what I mean.

Prospects are even more dismal without a merger?

How exactly are our prospects even more dismal without a merger? I won't go into anymore specifics, but NWA is still in a better position than most airlines out there -- without Delta. But, thats been argued on here many times before, so I won't get into it.

Spaceman, maybe the NWA pilots who frequent this board have experienced the effects of a merger for their entire careers. Maybe we've seen enough of the strife, bitterness and bickering and are weary of it. So maybe once the merger was announced some of us were smart enough to realize that at some point we will ALL have to work together so it's best just to shut the L up and get on with it. Maybe you should come to that conclusion too.

No Spaceman, Northwest pilots don't have dismal prospects. Or, at least not any more dismal than the rest of the airline pilots in the United States. So, why not get off your high horse in trying to paint yourself as our savior and come to the realization that we are ALL in the same boat. Grab an oar because you can't propell effectively with your mouth. :rolleyes:

New K Now

Spaceman, your posts are lame.

Spliff,

I'm real confused bud. In another thread I think you said your from Minn and plan on moving home after the merger. So, are you going to commute all the way back down to ATL just so you won't have to fly with us bad o'l red tails or our POS airplanes? Any commuter will tell you that would just be dumb. Driving to work and then going right home would be heaven.

So, lighten up Shirley........you'll be welcome down in the crew lounge below F5 anytime you want to visit.

Ferd

Spliff,

So, lighten up Shirley........
Ferd

I think it's Francis:D - Major Hulka

[quote=sailingfun;390267]
I had a NWA pilot tell me yesterday that Delta had a 5 Billion dollar ballon payment due next year. Said the info came straight from his MEC rep.

First it was 3 billion, then 4 billion, now 5 billion. Why don't we just save time and claim that DAL has, as Dr. Evil would say, "A balloon payment of one Trillion Dollars" that by the way, was due yesterday. As we speak, Vito and Johnny "two-thumbs" are about to pay Richard Anderson a visit.;)

Scoop


That's why it's called a Balloon payment... gets worse with passage ;)

I think it's Francis:D - Major Hulka

Shirley you jest:D

Ya know, I knew it was wrong when I typed it........but then my mind went blank (a normal occurance) on the real movie line.

Francis is welcome in the crew lounge too

Ferd

I think it's Francis:D - Major Hulka

It was Sgt. Hulka who said it.

http://filmforay.com/files/imagecache/user_large/files/images/userPictures/picture-94.jpg (http://filmforay.com/thecommunity/users/sgt-hulka)

Spaceman, your posts are lame.

I know...I just got back on the wagon yesterady, so that might help solve the problem. :)

Francis was a talking mule from some 1950's movies!