Airline Pilot Forums

I'm sorry, this may not be the right thread to post this in but it seemed like the best choice...

I started flying just a couple months ago, and love it so far. I'm 19 and for once in my life I'm motivated to go to class, I'm getting all A's, and find myself doing related work that the teacher hasn't even assigned. I also have about 5 hours of flight time under my belt and hope to have much more by the end of summer.

Seeing some of the posts on this site does have me concerned though. I want to hear honest opinions from those people reading this who have been professionals in this industry on whether or not they think that an up and coming pilot still has a fighting chance to earn a decent living?

What could help is that I'm open to anything flying related. Including military, flight lessons... even crop dusting. I don't really care, just as long as I don't waste my money getting an education that I'll never use.

I know that the industry is hurting right now, but I've also heard that it isn't just aviation. I've heard all industries are suffering, so if thats true I figure I might as well just go for what I want and risk being unemployed. Because if I go for a more stable job, I still may run that risk.

"I want to hear honest opinions from those people reading this who have been professionals in this industry on whether or not they think that an up and coming pilot still has a fighting chance to earn a decent living?"

What do you consider decent? What sacrifices are you willing to make?

I'd do if over, even today, if I had it to do over. Not sure what else I can tell ya.....

Those that feel the industry/career has dealt them a crappy hand seem to be very vocal here at APC. All I can say is somebody gets my job in 12 years. Will it be you? Will it be some a current regional F/O facing furlough who sticks it out? Who knows.

I can tell you who it won't be. It won't be the guy that walks away....not that there is anything wrong with that....

Like DE727UPS says "what is a decent living mean to you"?

How much do you like having control over your life?

Would you mind living away from your friends and family?

Some people are custom made for this profession. Are you willing to give whatever the profession asks? Is it worth it to you?

There are plenty of jobs out there. Some are not doing well while others are the key to the future. Aviation has seen its heyday. What is left are crumbs but to some it is still a prize. Only you can answer that.

There is nothing wrong with keeping flying a hobby and not letting it become a hobby job.

SkyHigh

To me answering those questions would be extremely easy and optomistic... if I were to answer them today. I mean, I'm 19 haha. Right now I'd be happy making 50,000 a year, and of course I'd be willing to do whatever the career asks because I have nothing keeping me here.

Looking into the future though, one day I probably will have a family. And providing for a whole family would obviously call for a much more lucrative salary. Plus, once I have the family and a place to live in with them I might not be as quick to say that packing everything up and moving is a good option.

Plus, Somebody mentioned that the Airline industry has seen its "heydey." I'm not so sure about that. Right now it IS looking that way but it is impossible to predict the future.

Right now the baby boomer generation is getting older. I'd say in another 5-10 years they are going to start retiring, and one of the things that retired people have stereotypically been known to do is travel alot.

Also, the nation is freaking out about gas prices, which has a lot of future entrepreneurs tweaking around with cars in their home garages trying to find the best alternatives.

If all of a sudden one of these alternatives is worthwhile, and all of the major car manufacturers start adopting it... The demand for gasoline, as well as the prices will drop way down. If this happened, right as the baby boomers are retiring and setting out on their quest to see the world, I think the world of Aviation would be at an all time high.

(Yes, I'm being ETREMELY optomistic but just want to put out that it is impossible to know for sure what the future holds)

Sounds like your doing well in school and its because of your love to fly. I'd keep at it. If you want to be a professional pilot you will. Just be realistic about the industry and what you may/may not achieve. In other words, don't look at the jet with the brown tail as yard stick of you being successful. If it is you may be disappointed if you never get there.

Skyhigh is right, are you willing to give what the profession ask? Only you can decide if the holy grail of flying for this or that company is worth the sacrifice and effort? And yes, there are some people that are just cut out for this profession and willing to sacrifice all for it and it may be you... or not.

Aviation has seen its heyday in regards to pay and working conditions. Airline pilots make half of what they did 20 years go and have to work much harder to get it. At one time pilots were as respected as doctors and lawyers. Today airlines are cutting wages and will continue to do so.

If you are 19 then you could have as much as 46 years ahead of you in this industry. If you were to take a look back at how far the profession has fallen over the last 46 years and then project that trend into the future it does not look good at all.

There will be continue to be planes to fly and companies who will pay people to do it, but to me it seems unlikely that it would be a job that is worth having by the time you are 45. Aviation is a huge investment. Get the private and wait to see how this oil thing unfolds. The industry could be on the verge of a total meltdown. If you have other interests pursue them as well.

Even if you choose aviation you will need a strong back up plan. A good strategy would be to develop a solid profession outside of aviation first and keep flying as your back up.

SkyHigh

Im sorta in the the camp that I would still do it all over again....

My path was different that many... military then 121 then QUIT for many years then back to 121.. and now 91/135..... but all by choice.....

I started flying at 15.... and many many many thousands of hours later I still love flying.... I sometimes dont like the BS demanded but that really goes with any job. In my time away from aviation I was both a manager at the corporate level for a very very successful real estate company in NC AND owned my own business for nearly 10 years...... bottom line every job has crap you dont like about it....

This is a DIFFICULT business and not for the faint of heart.... ONLY YOU can answer the questions moving forward..... good luck

I'm 49 and if I was your age again I'd be jumping right back in.

Do some research and make a decision that you will be happy with. Get a degree in something other than aviation that you can fall back on if you have no other options (industry, health, family). Good luck!!

I agree with everybody else for the love of god get a degree in something anything but aviation. I love flying and I lucked out and have a great schedule and get paid pretty well for what I am doing. However do look around and see whats happening. I do not work 121 i am a 135/91 guy. However if flying is your thing and it is for many people then go for it. There is nothing like it however do be ready for a few bumps down the road. But then again how much fun would life be without the bumps. I just like to remember the Robert Frost poem when think about this industry "Two roads diverged in too a wood and I took the one less traveled and that has made all the difference." anyway safe flying.

For the love of God, if you like Aviation and like the classes, and your ultimate career goal is to be a pilot, DON'T change majors. As you said in the beginning you are more motivated in school because of this. There are plenty of jobs for college educated kids with any degree down to Underwater Basketweaving. You will earn a living on the outside if you have to with an Aviation degree, even enough to go out and do an MBA on the side if you so wished...but you aren't getting into MBA school without good grades as an undergraduate, which is why you need to stay motivated by studying what you enjoy.

Prior to getting my Air Force pilot slot, I was a Financial Advisor, and got hired with an Aviation Degree and a Business minor. I was hired over some stiff from Stanford, because all they cared about was my personality and ability to interact with clients, not what I majored in, which only accounted for half of my academic career regardless. You can get any job you want if you network and interview well.

For the love of God, if you like Aviation and like the classes, and your ultimate career goal is to be a pilot, DON'T change majors. As you said in the beginning you are more motivated in school because of this. There are plenty of jobs for college educated kids with any degree down to Underwater Basketweaving. You will earn a living on the outside if you have to with an Aviation degree, even enough to go out and do an MBA on the side if you so wished...but you aren't getting into MBA school without good grades as an undergraduate, which is why you need to stay motivated by studying what you enjoy.

Prior to getting my Air Force pilot slot, I was a Financial Advisor, and got hired with an Aviation Degree and a Business minor. I was hired over some stiff from Stanford, because all they cared about was my personality and ability to interact with clients, not what I majored in, which only accounted for half of my academic career regardless. You can get any job you want if you network and interview well.


I don't agree. It is hard to get noticed in the outside world with an aviation degree. Pilots are seen as being limited when they only have an aviation degree. Having a degree in something else proves that you can do more than just fly a plane. It also makes you more interesting.

Besides all that it is a waste of an education since you will learn what you need to fly on the job or in flight school. If someone is going to get an aviation degree because it is fun then you might as well get a degree in skiing, stock car racing or water sports.

SkyHigh

I don't agree. It is hard to get noticed in the outside world with an aviation degree. Pilots are seen as being limited when they only have an aviation degree. Having a degree in something else proves that you can do more than just fly a plane. It also makes you more interesting.

Besides all that it is a waste of an education since you will learn what you need to fly on the job or in flight school. If someone is going to get an aviation degree because it is fun then you might as well get a degree in skiing, stock car racing or water sports.

SkyHigh

I'm not advocating Aviation as a major, I'm simply against the Aviation bashing...there are good Aviation programs in this country at big schools. If you don't like your first semester, switch to Business. If you like it, don't let people talk you out of it. Believe it or not, there are jobs in Aviation that actually require an Aviation degree...and none of them are related to being a pilot.

1. Go to a State School
2. Major in what you like
3. Join a Fraternity or Honor Society and Network Network Network

You will be fine, whether you major in Liberal Studies or Aviation.

The vast majority of (non-Aviation) people I knew in college are in jobs unrelated to their major. Recruiters for entry-level college grad positions are simply looking for well poised college educated people. Talk to an HR manager. I was offered several jobs paying over $60,000 for the first year with my Aviation degree (From a large State School), mostly entry-level management and Financial Services. Mine is personal experience, yours is not.

SkyHigh do you really know what's included in an Aviation Degree? I had to take Business, Physics, O-Chem, Calculus, Law, and meteorology classes as part of the requirements for my Major (not GE)...and very few classes directly related to flying, and we received no college credit for flying. Yes there are some Diploma mills that give you credit for doing a no-Flap landing, I agree with you there...but the schools that play Division I Football and offer Aviation are different.

If I had a dollar for every English, History, or International Business major who work in neither.

I went to job fairs and the people in the booth would see Aviation on my resume and start talking about flying...their dad or their Uncle flies, their boss owns a Bonanza, can you fly me to Vegas, it must be great to do that all the time, it breaks the ice. Then they would offer an interview since I can hold a conversation with someone in a suit. It's pretty easy to answer for why you're not a working pilot (cost prohibitive, medical, industry bust, etc...).

Once you get your first job in an industry, your work experience outweighs your degree when you go for the next job. A Bachelor's degree only gets you your FIRST job.

Generation X is the new hire pool now; HR wants a guy with a Degree, a nice suit, and not too much hair gel...that's it, sad but true.

Thanks for all the feedback, Def brought up some good points.

I'm gonna stick to it and just hope for the best.

I've worked in garages and so I know the basics of being a mechanic and i'm also a volunteer firefighter. I feel like those 2 traits could help me out down the road if worse comes to worse and I need a back up. A good paying aviation job would be my way of getting my cake and eating it too so that will continue to be my main goal