Airline Pilot Forums

I've noticed quite a few of my esteemed Delta brethren, on this forum and others, cite "goodwill" and "getting along with NWA pilots" as a huge reason to vote "yes" for the JPWA.

However, I have yet to see a single post from any NWA pilots that indicate that harmony and teamwork is something that's important to them--or at least something they'll give something up to attain. They seem to think they should (and will) get whatever they want from DAL guys just to keep them "happy."

I, for one, am tired of the sense of entitlement I sense from many NWA guys on this forum, who are happy to take the positive gains they stand to reap, and are more than happy to tell DAL guys how to vote (for the sake of a "united pilot group," of course) but at the end of the day, offer up absolutely nothing themselves in order to ensure both pilot groups are happy.

Their happiness, it appears, is the sole responsibility of the DAL pilot group.

"NO."

I, for one, am tired of the sense of entitlement I sense from many NWA guys on this forum, who are happy to take the positive gains they stand to reap, and are more than happy to tell DAL guys how to vote (for the sake of a "united pilot group," of course) but at the end of the day, offer up absolutely nothing themselves in order to ensure both pilot groups are happy.


Just wait til they see the SLI, negotiated or arbitrated. Under anything less than DOH, most will be giving up some numbers. How they respond will go a long way to ensuring a "united pilot group."

Accept that sacrifice is necessary, (for both groups,) and move forward, the "one step back, two steps forward" thinkgroup, or the kicking and screaming, (for both groups,) "I got screwed!" thinkgroup.

I've noticed quite a few of my esteemed Delta brethren, on this forum and others, cite "goodwill" and "getting along with NWA pilots" as a huge reason to vote "yes" for the JPWA.

However, I have yet to see a single post from any NWA pilots that indicate that harmony and teamwork is something that's important to them--or at least something they'll give something up to attain. They seem to think they should (and will) get whatever they want from DAL guys just to keep them "happy."

I, for one, am tired of the sense of entitlement I sense from many NWA guys on this forum, who are happy to take the positive gains they stand to reap, and are more than happy to tell DAL guys how to vote (for the sake of a "united pilot group," of course) but at the end of the day, offer up absolutely nothing themselves in order to ensure both pilot groups are happy.

Their happiness, it appears, is the sole responsibility of the DAL pilot group.

"NO."

Spiff,

What do you want the NWA guys to "give up" to attain harmony. I now you think we gave up nothing in the JPWA, but let me list a few things.

70 instead of 75 hours for reserve guarantee, I live in base and like reserve this is a big deal to me.
Premium pay for all flying over 80 hours, not just Green Slips
$1500 in additional medical costs per month for retirees, his could slow down age 60 retirements on our side.
Additional medical premium costs of about $500 or more per year
Plus others....

The biggest thing we are going to give up is in the SLI. For me there is no way I end up in the same relative seniority at the end of my career as I will at NWA. I would end up in the top 40 pilots at retirement age at the combined entity I end up about at 300 with DOH. We have a guy that has a cool little seniority crystal ball that lets you see these things. Guess what I do not think we will get DOH I am betting on some type of relative seniority. In that situation I will lose even more. Now Spliff listen closely, I understand I am going to lose some seniority, I can live with it as long as it is not gross. I see the greater good in this merger.

Since I live in a Northern base I will not be bidding to take your seat in NY or anyones in ATL so do not worry about me if I am senior to you.

I will gladly raise a toast with my Delta buddies in my squadron when this is done, because we will all be better off in the long run. Heck Spliff I would even have a beer with you.

Heck Spliff I would even have a beer with you.

Believe it or not, although I am fairly vocal about my perceptions of the JPWA shortcomings--and a few other issues--once it's all said and done, and the contract is approved and SLI decided, I'll be happy to put all of this behind us share a beer with you guys, too! :)

Believe it or not, although I am fairly vocal about my perceptions of the JPWA shortcomings--and a few other issues--once it's all said and done, and the contract is approved and SLI decided, I'll be happy to put all of this behind us share a beer with you guys, too! :)

Of course Spliff was listening to:

"One toke over the line sweet Jesus, one toke over the line. Sittin' downtown in a railway station one toke over the line"

when he wrote this.:)

Spiff,

What do you want the NWA guys to "give up" to attain harmony. I now you think we gave up nothing in the JPWA, but let me list a few things.

70 instead of 75 hours for reserve guarantee, I live in base and like reserve this is a big deal to me.
Premium pay for all flying over 80 hours, not just Green Slips
$1500 in additional medical costs per month for retirees, his could slow down age 60 retirements on our side.
Additional medical premium costs of about $500 or more per year
Plus others....

The biggest thing we are going to give up is in the SLI. For me there is no way I end up in the same relative seniority at the end of my career as I will at NWA. I would end up in the top 40 pilots at retirement age at the combined entity I end up about at 300 with DOH. We have a guy that has a cool little seniority crystal ball that lets you see these things. Guess what I do not think we will get DOH I am betting on some type of relative seniority. In that situation I will lose even more. Now Spliff listen closely, I understand I am going to lose some seniority, I can live with it as long as it is not gross. I see the greater good in this merger.

Since I live in a Northern base I will not be bidding to take your seat in NY or anyones in ATL so do not worry about me if I am senior to you.

I will gladly raise a toast with my Delta buddies in my squadron when this is done, because we will all be better off in the long run. Heck Spliff I would even have a beer with you.

Hi Caddis,

Yup, let me add in a few more:

Loss of training langauge

Loss of seniority list instructors (this is HUGE)

Loss of instructor benefits (for those few APDs/checkpilots remaining)

Loss of the 14 hour hard cap on duty day/hard minimum of 9 hours rest

Loss of the cap on health premium increases

Loss of bidding for RAP/Longcall

Loss of split block/reserve

Loss of monthly position awards

Loss of temporary positions (free hotels and positive space to work)

Loss of ASAP/FOQA (HUGE)

From a strictly objective view, even a DOH merge hammers the junior guys at NWA. I'm in your same position. My loss of expected position at the 10 and 15 year mark is well into the double digits, percentage wise, and several hundered positions at 25.

The only thing that comes close to fair is the dynamic list.

But hey, we didn't give anything up, so it's all ok, right?

Nu

Hi Caddis,

Yup, let me add in a few more:

Loss of training langauge

Loss of seniority list instructors (this is HUGE)

Loss of instructor benefits (for those few APDs/checkpilots remaining)

Loss of the 14 hour hard cap on duty day/hard minimum of 9 hours rest

Loss of the cap on health premium increases

Loss of bidding for RAP/Longcall

Loss of split block/reserve

Loss of monthly position awards

Loss of temporary positions (free hotels and positive space to work)

Loss of ASAP/FOQA (HUGE)

From a strictly objective view, even a DOH merge hammers the junior guys at NWA. I'm in your same position. My loss of expected position at the 10 and 15 year mark is well into the double digits, percentage wise, and several hundered positions at 25.

The only thing that comes close to fair is the dynamic list.

But hey, we didn't give anything up, so it's all ok, right?

Nu


Wow, that is pretty bad. So I guess you're going to vote against it, right?

Wow, that is pretty bad. So I guess you're going to vote against it, right?
--Exactly right. With all those negatives you would think Nuguy would be a no vote, especially with his "no win" on the seniority list. Actually Spliff what he and others are doing with all this negative banter about the contract is JUSTIFYING A SENIORITY LIST WINDFALL FOR NWA. (he even gets hurt with DOH,...YGTBSM!..what a joke!) Think about it, why else would they be in favor of such a "bad" contract?

I agree wholeheartedly, wiggy. I think NuGuy is a NALPA functionary trying to "prep the battlefield" for the windfall you predict. If the contract was as horrible as he claims it is, we'll see NWA vote it down.

But does anyone expect NWA to not pass it in a landslide? Of course not.

Also--anyone care to wager how many DAL pilots are going to change their votes to "NO" this weekend, now that oil is plummeting?

I agree wholeheartedly, wiggy. I think NuGuy is a NALPA functionary trying to "prep the battlefield" for the windfall you predict. If the contract was as horrible as he claims it is, we'll see NWA vote it down.

But does anyone expect NWA to not pass it in a landslide? Of course not.

Also--anyone care to wager how many DAL pilots are going to change their votes to "NO" this weekend, now that oil is plummeting?



http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/christopher_92/forums/tinfoil-hat.jpg

I'm confused as to why you think my opinion that this JPWA is a POS, and that I believe the right thing to do is turn it back, is somehow a conspiracy.

I realize, SP, that you think that anyone who doesn't accept your party line, and who utilizes some individual thought, is automatically wrong, crazy, and should be locked up.

I think you'll find there are several thousand DAL pilots who beg to differ with your fairly parochial and self-serving viewpoint.

How do they lose seniority list instructors? All the guys instructing there now won't automatically be fired will they? We will need 9, bus, and whale instructors and we sure don't have any on Va Ave. With all the training required to get them chicken fried I would expect all their instructors to be kept.

I agree wholeheartedly, wiggy. I think NuGuy is a NALPA functionary trying to "prep the battlefield" for the windfall you predict. If the contract was as horrible as he claims it is, we'll see NWA vote it down.

But does anyone expect NWA to not pass it in a landslide? Of course not.

Also--anyone care to wager how many DAL pilots are going to change their votes to "NO" this weekend, now that oil is plummeting?

I don't think the issue is going to be people changing their minds. I think the issue is going to be people voting at all. Apparently the turnout is horrendously low. I think that is because of the ten minutes its taking people to call ALPA national and get a voter pin instead of using their ALPA number to log into the system. Either way you vote I would hope that everyone able would do so. You can't complain either way if you don't vote. I would rather argue with someone over how they voted than listen to their rants and then find out they were to lazy to vote at all.

If this passes, it will be around 55-45% I predict. It will be a very close vote I have a feeling.

I think that is because of the ten minutes its taking people to call ALPA national and get a voter pin instead of using their ALPA number to log into the system.

Once again, ALPA national drops the ball. It doesn't even take 10 minutes to vote for the President of the United States. Yet somehow, ALPA is incapable of instituting a secure, usable voting mechanism. Those guys are getting WAY too much of our money.

Hey Spiffy,

I as an NWA pilot, have done nothing but try to make the best of this situation and form/build a positive pilot group. I have and many other nwa guys have stated the importance of being a unified group. I think the pay raises on the NWA side and the increased medical benies, plus the lower block will be a wash for some guys. I havent worked the numbers, yet but it may not be these giant significant raises on our side. Nonetheless, I think the benifit of this merger will be power in numbers and the next contract in 2012 or 2015 by the time it is said and done. I have heard or chosen to hear how the DAL group is the saving grace of NWA. I just dont think that is true. I want to sit side by side with my stick buddy and not **** and moan about how things went down 15 yrs down the way.

Hey Spiffy,

I as an NWA pilot, have done nothing but try to make the best of this situation and form/build a positive pilot group. I have and many other nwa guys have stated the importance of being a unified group. I think the pay raises on the NWA side and the increased medical benies, plus the lower block will be a wash for some guys. I havent worked the numbers, yet but it may not be these giant significant raises on our side. Nonetheless, I think the benifit of this merger will be power in numbers and the next contract in 2012 or 2015 by the time it is said and done. I have heard or chosen to hear how the DAL group is the saving grace of NWA. I just dont think that is true. I want to sit side by side with my stick buddy and not **** and moan about how things went down 15 yrs down the way.

Bingo!! Being a unified group NOW will bring more to ALL of us and IMHO is the biggest gain we can ever get.

I for one look forward to getting this done and moving forward together!!

Once again, ALPA national drops the ball. It doesn't even take 10 minutes to vote for the President of the United States. Yet somehow, ALPA is incapable of instituting a secure, usable voting mechanism. Those guys are getting WAY too much of our money.

This has nothing to do with ALPA national. Apparently, a law went into effect that prohibits unions from holding their own elections. This is done through an independent firm and the law prevents using your union information to register the vote. Our MEC wishes they could go back to the old process because they feel the turnout would be better. The problem is that many people, myself included, forgot where we recorded our registration information. Its a very simple process but it does take about 10 minutes to do. Unfortunately, many people are choosing not to take 10 minutes out of their lives to vote on something that will affect the rest of their careers. Like I said, I can handle debating how you voted, just vote!

Spiff,

What do you want the NWA guys to "give up" to attain harmony. I now you think we gave up nothing in the JPWA, but let me list a few things.

70 instead of 75 hours for reserve guarantee, I live in base and like reserve this is a big deal to me.
Premium pay for all flying over 80 hours, not just Green Slips
$1500 in additional medical costs per month for retirees, his could slow down age 60 retirements on our side.
Additional medical premium costs of about $500 or more per year
Plus others....

The biggest thing we are going to give up is in the SLI. For me there is no way I end up in the same relative seniority at the end of my career as I will at NWA. I would end up in the top 40 pilots at retirement age at the combined entity I end up about at 300 with DOH. We have a guy that has a cool little seniority crystal ball that lets you see these things. Guess what I do not think we will get DOH I am betting on some type of relative seniority. In that situation I will lose even more. Now Spliff listen closely, I understand I am going to lose some seniority, I can live with it as long as it is not gross. I see the greater good in this merger.

Since I live in a Northern base I will not be bidding to take your seat in NY or anyones in ATL so do not worry about me if I am senior to you.

I will gladly raise a toast with my Delta buddies in my squadron when this is done, because we will all be better off in the long run. Heck Spliff I would even have a beer with you.


Caddis,
Great post, or more accuately, good post that finishes real strong - great attitude. On another subject Why are you guys complaining about not flying 90 hours? Or should I say being forced to fly 90 hours. The ALV varies but nothing stops guys from requesting a "high time" line. Given the fact that you will be making more in less time seems a good thing to me. For the guys who want to fly their ass off - go for it. Nothing will stop you except the FAR limit.
The one wildcard in all this is if aircraft get parked and we are fat on Pilots - the flight time could come down for everyone, but this would also happen to DAL and NW as stand-alone airlines - either that or furloughs. :(
I can't believe that I am defending this merger - SP's optimism must be wearing off on me. :)

Scoop

I can't believe that I am defending this merger - SP's optimism must be wearing off on me.

Scoop


I'll Drink To That!!


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/christopher_92/forums/beer-1.gif

Bingo!! Being a unified group NOW will bring more to ALL of us and IMHO is the biggest gain we can ever get.

I for one look forward to getting this done and moving forward together!!
Superpilot for ALPA President. :cool: :eek:

Loss of seniority list instructors (this is HUGE)

In the immortal words of John McEnroe... "You have got to be kidding!"

Once again, ALPA national drops the ball. It doesn't even take 10 minutes to vote for the President of the United States. Yet somehow, ALPA is incapable of instituting a secure, usable voting mechanism. Those guys are getting WAY too much of our money.

Yeah but with all us Floridians, there would be alot of hanging chads, and somehow Pat Buchanan would be the next MEC chair...

The Northwest and Delta pilots are at a crossroads that will change our careers and possibly the future of the airline industry in the United States. As you prepare to make a decision on the JCBA and related documents, there are several questions that you should ask yourself:

· Will the merger go forward with or without a positive vote by the two pilot groups?

· Will the pilots at the new merged airline be unified or fighting one another?

· Will the cooperative agreement create a better future for both pilot groups?

· Will a cooperative approach break the chain of merger/pilot conflict and lead to more opportunity for growth and successful careers for both pilot groups?

· Will a refusal to ratify the JCBA, by either pilot group, launch us down the road of a traditional merger process, with the protracted inefficiencies and animosity that often result?



Your elected leadership and the elected leadership of the Delta pilots have closely examined these questions and have voted unanimously to approve the JCBA, this process and the future they provide for the pilots we represent. Please take time to examine the applicable documents and make a careful and reasoned decision for your future and the future of your fellow pilots.

I've noticed quite a few of my esteemed Delta brethren, on this forum and others, cite "goodwill" and "getting along with NWA pilots" as a huge reason to vote "yes" for the JPWA.

However, I have yet to see a single post from any NWA pilots that indicate that harmony and teamwork is something that's important to them--or at least something they'll give something up to attain. They seem to think they should (and will) get whatever they want from DAL guys just to keep them "happy."

I, for one, am tired of the sense of entitlement I sense from many NWA guys on this forum, who are happy to take the positive gains they stand to reap, and are more than happy to tell DAL guys how to vote (for the sake of a "united pilot group," of course) but at the end of the day, offer up absolutely nothing themselves in order to ensure both pilot groups are happy.

Their happiness, it appears, is the sole responsibility of the DAL pilot group.

"NO."
Spaceman,I don't give a rat's ass about NW pilots or other DL pilots or togetherness when I vote for a contract.I try to look at the big picture and determine will I be better off down the road and if I vote no what risks are involved with going back and asking for more.On this particular contract I feel we possibly could do a little better but with considerable risk.The risks I talk about are:The SLI comes out before the contract and 1 group or the other feels screwed so they hold any future contract hostage ala US Air.The DL and NW boards vote on the merger next month and without labor harmony they reject the merger.The reason only DL and NW among all the Legacy's are not talking furloughs is because of all the dot connecting we are going to be doing starting with the March sked.If the board(s) reject this merger we will become just like all the other legacy;s and furloughs will surely follow given the direction of the economy.For all future contracts to pass they will have to be negotiated from a standpoint of how to placate 1 group or the other rather than from a joint combined kick-ass union. I could go on but I'm starting to bore myself.In summary I am not willing to risk the possible consequences of a no vote for a measly $! or 2 an hour,and if you think we can get more than I figure you're moniker has to do with "better living through chemistry".
The SLI is seperate from the JCB yet people keep mixing the two.The SLI will happen and Lord help us if we don't have a contract by then because if there are 12,00 combined pilots 11,999 will think they got screwed to some extent and blame it on the other group.Lastly there are some of my fellow pilots who feel NW brings little to the table ,look at the financial statements,look at the future orders,look at all the 330's and 747's they are bringing and compare that to our 767-400's and 777's(yes we have a boatload of 767/757's)that are going to be the 2 highest pay categories at the new DL.They are every bit as good an airline as we are and with this end to end merger the future growth will be eye watering and good for both groups.The past is the past,if you try to stay there you will get steamrolled.I looked to the future and placed my bet on the yes side.
Sorry for the length, Finis

Folks,

Surely we all must know that Mr/Ms Spliff is mainly in this for flame baiting. Below is his latest complaint to the moderators:

Kindly enforce all of the site's rules as vigorously as you enforce my transgressions. :cool:

Standing by for this post to be censored...

Anyone censored as ofter as he/she is should probably just take a rest for a while, and reflect upon more successful means of communicating and influence.

Other NW pilots have already posted a number of negatives for us in this JCBA. But most of us think it is worth the gamble to be part of a business Godzilla in spite of the many negatives.

Carl

Spaceman,I don't give a rat's ass about NW pilots or other DL pilots or togetherness when I vote for a contract.I try to look at the big picture and determine will I be better off down the road and if I vote no what risks are involved with going back and asking for more.On this particular contract I feel we possibly could do a little better but with considerable risk.The risks I talk about are:The SLI comes out before the contract and 1 group or the other feels screwed so they hold any future contract hostage ala US Air.The DL and NW boards vote on the merger next month and without labor harmony they reject the merger.The reason only DL and NW among all the Legacy's are not talking furloughs is because of all the dot connecting we are going to be doing starting with the March sked.If the board(s) reject this merger we will become just like all the other legacy;s and furloughs will surely follow given the direction of the economy.For all future contracts to pass they will have to be negotiated from a standpoint of how to placate 1 group or the other rather than from a joint combined kick-ass union. I could go on but I'm starting to bore myself.In summary I am not willing to risk the possible consequences of a no vote for a measly $! or 2 an hour,and if you think we can get more than I figure you're moniker has to do with "better living through chemistry".
The SLI is seperate from the JCB yet people keep mixing the two.The SLI will happen and Lord help us if we don't have a contract by then because if there are 12,00 combined pilots 11,999 will think they got screwed to some extent and blame it on the other group.Lastly there are some of my fellow pilots who feel NW brings little to the table ,look at the financial statements,look at the future orders,look at all the 330's and 747's they are bringing and compare that to our 767-400's and 777's(yes we have a boatload of 767/757's)that are going to be the 2 highest pay categories at the new DL.They are every bit as good an airline as we are and with this end to end merger the future growth will be eye watering and good for both groups.The past is the past,if you try to stay there you will get steamrolled.I looked to the future and placed my bet on the yes side.
Sorry for the length, Finis

While it was a long post, it was a really good one.

Carl

Oh man, Spaceman Spliff got banned!

Spaceman,I don't give a rat's ass about NW pilots or other DL pilots or togetherness when I vote for a contract.I try to look at the big picture and determine will I be better off down the road and if I vote no what risks are involved with going back and asking for more.On this particular contract I feel we possibly could do a little better but with considerable risk.The risks I talk about are:The SLI comes out before the contract and 1 group or the other feels screwed so they hold any future contract hostage ala US Air.The DL and NW boards vote on the merger next month and without labor harmony they reject the merger.The reason only DL and NW among all the Legacy's are not talking furloughs is because of all the dot connecting we are going to be doing starting with the March sked.If the board(s) reject this merger we will become just like all the other legacy;s and furloughs will surely follow given the direction of the economy.For all future contracts to pass they will have to be negotiated from a standpoint of how to placate 1 group or the other rather than from a joint combined kick-ass union. I could go on but I'm starting to bore myself.In summary I am not willing to risk the possible consequences of a no vote for a measly $! or 2 an hour,and if you think we can get more than I figure you're moniker has to do with "better living through chemistry".
The SLI is seperate from the JCB yet people keep mixing the two.The SLI will happen and Lord help us if we don't have a contract by then because if there are 12,00 combined pilots 11,999 will think they got screwed to some extent and blame it on the other group.Lastly there are some of my fellow pilots who feel NW brings little to the table ,look at the financial statements,look at the future orders,look at all the 330's and 747's they are bringing and compare that to our 767-400's and 777's(yes we have a boatload of 767/757's)that are going to be the 2 highest pay categories at the new DL.They are every bit as good an airline as we are and with this end to end merger the future growth will be eye watering and good for both groups.The past is the past,if you try to stay there you will get steamrolled.I looked to the future and placed my bet on the yes side.
Sorry for the length, Finis

Great Post!!! Agree 100%

I agree wholeheartedly, wiggy. I think NuGuy is a NALPA functionary trying to "prep the battlefield" for the windfall you predict. If the contract was as horrible as he claims it is, we'll see NWA vote it down.

But does anyone expect NWA to not pass it in a landslide? Of course not.

Also--anyone care to wager how many DAL pilots are going to change their votes to "NO" this weekend, now that oil is plummeting?

Some of you guys will never quit your whining about the NWA pilot group no matter what we do. Initailly we got griped for trying to derail the merger....we got blamed for trying to screw up a good thing. Now we get griped at for voting yes.

As a NWA pilot, our position has been clear. We tried to derail this merger at every step. We protested the merger during the congressional hearings. We said we do not support the merger if we are to work under a 'B' scale. We testified at at DOT and tried to convince them this merger is not necessary. When DAL union told us to 'take it or leave it' during the first round of talks, we responded with an emphatic no...we do not want the merger. That time...many of you guys were constantly complaining that we are derailing the merger.

However, we finally realized that nothing...absolutely nothing...is going to stop this merger. Like it or not, we will be flying your planes and you will be flying our planes. We informed the management that we will support the merger if we get the same contract and pay as DAL. We got it and hence most of the pilots here are voting yes on the contract.

Now...again...about all the BS about DOH. We do not want DOH. Most of us know it is not fair in this situation. We just want it to be fair for both the groups. All that talk about NWA walking from ALPA if we don't get DOH is pure nonsense. We can see USair too....guys and gals here are not that dumb as you think. Some NWA guys are in support for an inhouse union but only if it is together with the DAL pilot group. I personally hope we can fix what we have and keep ALPA.

I am voting yes 'cause I don't think there is a darn thing we are going to achieve by voting 'no'. You think a 'no' vote will derail the merger.....riiiight. You think they will come up with a new contract and give us all more money....highly unlikely. Last time we tried that...the deal got crappier. I hope we can all get along, get unified and be a formidable negotiating power with 12000 pilots. Or we can keep fighting, blame each other and stock up on KY lube to get ready for the next round with the management.

I am voting yes 'cause I don't think there is a darn thing we are going to achieve by voting 'no'. You think a 'no' vote will derail the merger.....riiiight. You think they will come up with a new contract and give us all more money....highly unlikely. Last time we tried that...the deal got crappier. I hope we can all get along, get unified and be a formidable negotiating power with 12000 pilots. Or we can keep fighting, blame each other and stock up on KY lube to get ready for the next round with the management.

Freight......great post. I think you have summed up most of the discussons I've been in the last couple of weeks.

I've said from just about my first post on this forum, I'm against the merger. It does absolutly nothing for me (and it's all about me:)). I get to change uniforms, learn a new contract, and change just about everything about my professional life right down to how to read a checklist. Oh I just can't wait.

To tell everyone the truth, I haven't voted yet. I probably will but everytime I sit down at the computer, I come up with something else to do because quite frankly, I just don't give a $hit about it any more. We gave up alot nice stuff in our contract just be Delta guys and guys like Spaceman still think we smell too bad to sit next to.......oh well, his loss. I think we're a great bunch of guys.........and their FAs will think so too;).

So, guess I'll spend the 10 minutes to get my new pin and vote.......or not.

Ferd

I think we're a great bunch of guys.........and their FAs will think so too;).



All you have to do is just rub some Fancy Feast cat food on you and the cat ranchers will come running.

All you have to do is just rub some Fancy Feast cat food on you and the cat ranchers will come running.
LMFAO!!!! Cheeper than beer?

Ferd

Wow, that is pretty bad. So I guess you're going to vote against it, right?

Well, the cash makes up for PART of the QoL givebacks, so, that's why I call it a push. It's certainly no windfall.

BUT, if you want to really give the NWA guys the SLI windfall you think we're going to get anyway, vote no, PLEASE.

That'd REALLY take the shackles off the arbitration. With our own LOA deal reached independently with DAL management, and no "no predjudice" letter to restrain the merger team as they go the arbitrator, you might just help fullfill your own prophecy.

Nu

In the immortal words of John McEnroe... "You have got to be kidding!"

Wrong. Johnny Mac was famous for these words:

"YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS....!"

Freight......great post. I think you have summed up most of the discussons I've been in the last couple of weeks.

I've said from just about my first post on this forum, I'm against the merger. It does absolutly nothing for me (and it's all about me:)). I get to change uniforms, learn a new contract, and change just about everything about my professional life right down to how to read a checklist. Oh I just can't wait.

To tell everyone the truth, I haven't voted yet. I probably will but everytime I sit down at the computer, I come up with something else to do because quite frankly, I just don't give a $hit about it any more. We gave up alot nice stuff in our contract just be Delta guys and guys like Spaceman still think we smell too bad to sit next to.......oh well, his loss. I think we're a great bunch of guys.........and their FAs will think so too;).

So, guess I'll spend the 10 minutes to get my new pin and vote.......or not.

Ferd

Agreed. And as far as the FA's go, please come to ATL, take 1, 10, maybe 100 of the over 60 gals back up north. Jimmy Hendrix used to sing about "Are you experienced". For all of the 30+ years they have I think they can answer yes. In fact, I believe that song was actually a hit on the radio when they were hired. I've seen some NWA gals that would be most welcome down here. They will enjoy bogging, Nascar, etc. Talk about a win-win.

Agreed. And as far as the FA's go, please come to ATL, take 1, 10, maybe 100 of the over 60 gals back up north. Jimmy Hendrix used to sing about "Are you experienced". For all of the 30+ years they have I think they can answer yes. In fact, I believe that song was actually a hit on the radio when they were hired. I've seen some NWA gals that would be most welcome down here. They will enjoy bogging, Nascar, etc. Talk about a win-win.

Yeah, no kidding. I deadhead over to NRT once a month for our 757 Asia gig and trust me, our senior mommas are still pushing the carts vs walkers too:D. The red/green guys tell the story about the one month "window of opportunity" after the merger when the girls went for "strange" just to find out we're all the same........."enough about flying, let's talk about me"

Anyway, back to the merger.......are we done yet?

Beers on me on Saipan boys! I'm betting the 757/767 guys are the lab rats for consolidation next year or so.........see ya at Johnny's.

Ferd

Spaceman

you asked what it is that nwa is willing to give up and a couple people put out a list of things that they will be losing. what exactly is it that the delta pilots are giving up with the joint contract? what was adopted from the nwa side that is making you give something up from your contract?

eric

I've noticed quite a few of my esteemed Delta brethren, on this forum and others, cite "goodwill" and "getting along with NWA pilots" as a huge reason to vote "yes" for the JPWA.

However, I have yet to see a single post from any NWA pilots that indicate that harmony and teamwork is something that's important to them--or at least something they'll give something up to attain. They seem to think they should (and will) get whatever they want from DAL guys just to keep them "happy."

I, for one, am tired of the sense of entitlement I sense from many NWA guys on this forum, who are happy to take the positive gains they stand to reap, and are more than happy to tell DAL guys how to vote (for the sake of a "united pilot group," of course) but at the end of the day, offer up absolutely nothing themselves in order to ensure both pilot groups are happy.

Their happiness, it appears, is the sole responsibility of the DAL pilot group.

"NO."

Hey Space,
By now maybe you realize that the NWA guys are giving up a lot. Here is my list:
1. Loosing over 2000 hours of sick leave at $122 per hour but I don't have to pay a $50 per month supliment.
2. I was retiring early but now am forced to fly to 60 because no medical benefits for early retirement new cost $1900 per month almost half of my retirement check.
3. Loss of instructor pilot positions.
4. loss of call in honest policy.
5. Loss of guarantee seat to work with 2 backups flts.
6. loss of premium pay on all trips over 80
7. loss of instructor overrides and y1 to work
8. have been flying 87 hours I think your alv is around 75 my huge $8 an hour raise in no way makes up for the loss in hours on average so my take home pay will be less.
9. Loss of 3% company paid contribution off the top to my 401K
10. no dcc until 2012 for me.
11. Mdeical payments double for me. Your medical sucks to put it bluntly.
12. loss of seperate block reserve system creating more jobs
13. loss of 10 day jump seat booking
14. 210 delta guys are senior to me DOH your relative senority stance puts 1500 junior delta DOH guys in front of me. what a huge loss because hardly any of these guys will retire before me locking me out of moving up for the rest of my career. I KNOW I HAVE YOR SENORITY LIST I ALSO KNOW BECAUE I WAS OFFED A CLASS IN SEP OF 1985 BY DAL BUT DAL WOULD NOT HIRE ME BECAUSE I HAD BEEN AT NWA FOR 4 DAYS. ANYTHING BUT DOH IS A REAL LOSS FOR ME IN QUALITY OF LIFE AND PAY FOR THE REST OF MY CAREER 8 MORE YEARS NOW THAT I AM FORCED TO GO TO 60. SUCKS HAVING YOUR EARLY RETIREMENT PLANS CHANGE
15. there are more things some little some big.

So what are you loosing. I don't know of anything because the NWA guys are basically getting your existing dal contract with the raises and additions of the new pwa. So i think that you are getting pay raises and equity and not loosing anything. I would love to see your list. Who are the real winners in this deal.

For me there is only one reason to vote yes. THe hope that the combination of these 2 companies IS going to be a surviving carrier that will give me a job in the future in stead of being one of those carriers that are out of business. And I know that you may not feel this way but going it alone I feel that NWA is a leaner meaner machince than dal and we would survive. I am sure that you think the same for dal but we have 82 employees per plane and you have around 105 employees per plane, do the math. at least I think that we would last longer than you if the world ends.

Huge pay raises has been spouted about alot but they are not there. My takehome pay will be less because of the 3% 401k gone, double medical expense, and loss in hours of flying per month. Please get that through your head because I am tired of running to the toilet and throwing up every time i read HUGE PAY RAISES on here. I might break even at best.

Also, I am one of those guys that has a small frozen pension. NWA fought to keep this for me. Will DAL do the same. All you guys want to see it gone because it takes from your money. There is no gurantee that I will keep that. I am looking at 7000 guys who see this as something that they don't have so Why should I have it. I put in my time and gave up my contract things to earn this.

Well enough. I is a sad thing but to me pilots seem to be one of the most greedy self serving bunch of people out there and I am one of them. God help us all because It really sucks to be together in a combative way. We have been there for over 20 years at NWa with the republic merger. Welcome to hell.

While some of your points are valid, many are not. I'm trying to figure out if you're being intentionally disingenuous, really don't understand the JCBA, or don't understand your own contract. A few quick comments:

By now maybe you realize that the NWA guys are giving up a lot. Here is my list:
1. Loosing over 2000 hours of sick leave at $122 per hour but I don't have to pay a $50 per month supliment.


If you've got over 2000 hours, you'll pay exactly $0 for the DPMA equivalent benefit. You trade in your sick leave bank for the exact same protection you currently have. Not an issue. And for those with low sick banks, they'll get protection your system doesn't have at a very low cost.


3. Loss of instructor pilot positions.
7. loss of instructor overrides and y1 to work


I don't get why you guys are so protective of less than 200 management selected pilots with special pay and conditions that reduce the total contract dollars to share for pilots actually flying the line. I much prefer our system, where pilots are treated equally. The idea of a management selectee being able to bump me because his job training is more important than my job of generating revenue is BS.


8. have been flying 87 hours I think your alv is around 75 my huge $8 an hour raise in no way makes up for the loss in hours on average so my take home pay will be less.

Another crock. There is less than one hour difference in flying between DAL and NWA pilots. The ALV is for initial line construction. Your method forces people to fly that don't want to fly. Ours allows those that want to fly to pick up more. I'll take the more flexible system.


9. Loss of 3% company paid contribution off the top to my 401K
10. no dcc until 2012 for me.

That 3% company paid contribution is included in your pay rate. If you want to say you lost the 3%, then you gained a whole lot more than $8 per hour - you can't count it twice. It was your money all along. With the JCBA you'll get a lot more DC sooner than you would have in your own plan. That's a real sacrifice for you, I know.:rolleyes: Btw, you'll start getting it in 2010, and by 2014 you'll be getting 14%, vice the ZERO you're currently receiving, and the 3% you were swcheduled to receive under your own contract.


11. Mdeical payments double for me. Your medical sucks to put it bluntly.

Don't know if you noticed, but your medical plan is coming over as DPMP option N at the same premium you currently pay. Are you saying your medical currently sucks? The loss is, as you've accurately pointed out, in retirement medical. Ours sucks. You'll have to use all that extra retirement money for something.


12. loss of seperate block reserve system creating more jobs

You have over 20% of your pilots systemwide on reserve. We have about 10%. Our system makes a lot more people regular lineholders. I prefer it. I understand you have a different point of view.


13. loss of 10 day jump seat booking

I prefer our system, where a guy going to generate revenue for the company gets a one day lead time over a guy going home, and a two day lead time on a guy traveling for pleasure.


14. 210 delta guys are senior to me DOH your relative senority stance puts 1500 junior delta DOH guys in front of me. what a huge loss because hardly any of these guys will retire before me locking me out of moving up for the rest of my career. I KNOW I HAVE YOR SENORITY LIST I ALSO KNOW BECAUE I WAS OFFED A CLASS IN SEP OF 1985 BY DAL BUT DAL WOULD NOT HIRE ME BECAUSE I HAD BEEN AT NWA FOR 4 DAYS. ANYTHING BUT DOH IS A REAL LOSS FOR ME IN QUALITY OF LIFE AND PAY FOR THE REST OF MY CAREER 8 MORE YEARS NOW THAT I AM FORCED TO GO TO 60. SUCKS HAVING YOUR EARLY RETIREMENT PLANS CHANGE



Yeah, life is full of choices. If you got date of hire you'd go from 1500/5300 to 1700/12500. I'm thinking that would be defined as a "windfall." Of course, we could replicate the Roberts award with a 20 year fence, and as your 742's are parked we could see cascade displacements only on your system...but I don't believe that proved very successful for Republic/NWA. I believe you called that "hell."

Here's hoping the Delta side votes in the JCBA, that we get a negotiated SLI, and we move forward as one group. I think that's the best possiblity for getting this profession and my career back on track. I'll certainly take the opportunities of where DAL/NWA are right now compared to the traditionalist unionism at AMR or UAL.

I don't get why you guys are so protective of less than 200 management selected pilots with special pay and conditions that reduce the total contract dollars to share for pilots actually flying the line. I much prefer our system, where pilots are treated equally. The idea of a management selectee being able to bump me because his job training is more important than my job of generating revenue is BS.

Heyas Slow,

Typically, NWA IP positions are available to just about everyone who shows an interest. It's a great way to break up the routine of flying the line.

It's a fairly tough job, and I have NEVER run into a single NWA pilot that begrudged the IPs of their "deal"

More importantly, most NWA folks think that line pilots as instructors provide a better "product" and overall better experience in the sim. Our IPs aren't full time, year around. Rather they might do 2 months in the box, and 2 on the line. The fact that they are totally current with line ops makes a HUGE difference.

Nu

Slow,

Doesn't your DPMA only cover two years of an extended sick call?

Also, Why do you guys defend your jumpseat booking policy so much? Just admit that ours, combined with our call in honest policy is far superior.

4 1/2 days or 3 1/2 days to book a jumpseat? What happens if you pick up a trip that leaves a day later? Do you have to cancel the jumpseat? What happens if you have to call off of a trip because of a family emergency? Can you still use that jumpseat that you booked for work to go to the emergency?

Sometimes the simplest system is the best one.

Also, line pilots as instructors is the way to go. You are a much better teacher if you have done it as opposed to heard about it.

The call in honest program is just one example of the "culture" differences we have with the Delta guys.

We are an airline of commuters and the aren't (by and large). When the new company starts moving flying around like crazy, exNWA guys will just come up with a new commute plan and the Delta guys start trying to figure out how to get out of ATL. Then they will start asking questions about how our old policy used to work. I'll just remind everyone it's harder to get something back once it's gone.

Ferd

Heyas Slow,

Typically, NWA IP positions are available to just about everyone who shows an interest. It's a great way to break up the routine of flying the line.

It's a fairly tough job, and I have NEVER run into a single NWA pilot that begrudged the IPs of their "deal"

Nu

I guess we'll mark that to "cultural" differences. We used to have all seniority list instructors as well, and I had a slight preference for that program. Management selected their "choices" for the program; those pilots in general earned substantially more than line pilots, had more time at home, and better flying schedules. They also served at the pleasure of management.

We still have line pilot instructors doing checking.

Slow,

Doesn't your DPMA only cover two years of an extended sick call?

Yes. That equals 2160 hours of your sick leave, as we use our sick leave before we start using DPMA. Our guys told us that the average NWA pilot had less than 1000 hours of sick leave, so your average guy will get increased coverage at a subsidized cost.




Also, Why do you guys defend your jumpseat booking policy so much? Just admit that ours, combined with our call in honest policy is far superior.

4 1/2 days or 3 1/2 days to book a jumpseat? What happens if you pick up a trip that leaves a day later? Do you have to cancel the jumpseat? What happens if you have to call off of a trip because of a family emergency? Can you still use that jumpseat that you booked for work to go to the emergency?

Sometimes the simplest system is the best one.

I'll take your "call in honest" policy with our jumpseat policy. I won't admit your jumpseat policy is better (I think it's worse, actually, as it doesn't provide preference for someone going to or from work). If we have a family emergency, the CPO will book you on the jumpseat as company business to go home.

At delta how do you guys know who's going to work, home or on pleasure trips with your jumpseats?

At delta how do you guys know who's going to work, home or on pleasure trips with your jumpseats?

The computer does, and when you call to book it, there are three prompts, going to work, going home, and pleasure. If you select going to work and don't have anything on your schedule, trip or reserve period, the computer won't make the reservation.

Keenster,
Do you fly 87 hours a month or get paid for 87 a month? I know the average DAL pilot gets paid for more hours than he flies and I assume its the same at NW. Like I said you bring up some points - but the inability to fly your butt off at DAL aint one of them.

Scoop

Slow,

Doesn't your DPMA only cover two years of an extended sick call?

Also, Why do you guys defend your jumpseat booking policy so much? Just admit that ours, combined with our call in honest policy is far superior.

4 1/2 days or 3 1/2 days to book a jumpseat? What happens if you pick up a trip that leaves a day later? Do you have to cancel the jumpseat? What happens if you have to call off of a trip because of a family emergency? Can you still use that jumpseat that you booked for work to go to the emergency?

Sometimes the simplest system is the best one.

New,
The jumpseat booking system actually works pretty good. It favors guys going to work over guys going home/personal travel. Since you guys have trips longer than 4 days maybe we will have to tweak the sytem. If you are not going to use the J/S to work then you should cancel it so another can use it if needed. As far as emergencies go once you have the seat its yours, but this is probably a good question for the J/S rep.

Scoop

Since you guys have trips longer than 4 days maybe we will have to tweak the sytem.

Or you can do what some of the guys flying the 6-day ER trips do. Teach your spouse how to reserve the JS for you. She wants you home for some "Honey-Dos," she can pick up the phone.:cool:

Or you can do what some of the guys flying the 6-day ER trips do. Teach your spouse how to reserve the JS for you. She wants you home for some "Honey-Dos," she can pick up the phone.:cool:

I don't want mine to know when I'm coming and going............just kidding.

Seriously, have you heard any rumors about getting the ability to reserve the J/S or non-rev on line? Really handy when you're overseas on a long rotation (<-----see I'm starting to learn the lingo:D)

Ferd

In all the confusion i forgot what this merger was really about:eek:
Wonder how many ppl are going to get the short end of the stick in this so called deal ?:rolleyes:
BTW you may have a combined 12,000 pilots but how many will be left after ummmm lets say 3 years?
I also wonder if DAL could survive w/o said deal ?

Seriously, have you heard any rumors about getting the ability to reserve the J/S or non-rev on line? Really handy when you're overseas on a long rotation (<-----see I'm starting to learn the lingo:D)


Yes, I have heard something about eventually being able make a JS res on-line. We can already make a NRSA listing on-line. We are switching over from e-crew to i-crew this month or next, which is huge. No more java applet garbage. With your head IT person taking over the combined group, hopefully she can get us into the 21st century.

BTW you may have a combined 12,000 pilots but how many will be left after ummmm lets say 3 years?

Depends on how many people decide to retire.

I also wonder if DAL could survive w/o said deal ?

Delta would survive without this deal. So would NW. Both would have to implement some serious austerity measures, but there are a few carriers in worse financial shape which would fail first.

I voted Yes. My overriding reason is to have pilot unity and avoid another US/AW type of situation. I want work to have an enjoyable environment as much as possible. If either side votes this down we will have the very real possibility of having a divided pilot group that may never come together. The company may decide to skip trying to renegtiate another JPWA and instead give us(NWA) a type of LOA19. It could be years before we have another opportunity to vote on a joint contract. In the meantime we may get the SLI. If either or both sides are upset about the SLI they could hold any future joint contract hostage by voting it down. In essence the two groups would remain sepearte forever. Then we will have the same situation as they do at USAir where there is extreme bitterness. We also weaken the corporation and jeopordize everyones jobs. I want to avoid this at all costs.

I voted Yes. My overriding reason is to have pilot unity and avoid another US/AW type of situation. I want work to have an enjoyable environment as much as possible. If either side votes this down we will have the very real possibility of having a divided pilot group that may never come together. The company may decide to skip trying to renegtiate another JPWA and instead give us(NWA) a type of LOA19. It could be years before we have another opportunity to vote on a joint contract. In the meantime we may get the SLI. If either or both sides are upset about the SLI they could hold any future joint contract hostage by voting it down. In essence the two groups would remain sepearte forever. Then we will have the same situation as they do at USAir where there is extreme bitterness. We also weaken the corporation and jeopordize everyones jobs. I want to avoid this at all costs.

Second this. I voted YES for all of these reasons. Its about looking longterm not just for tomorrow. However, tomorrow will tell how both groups are looking. Sadly, I'm not sure we'll know how the majority feel at DAL as the voter turnout is shockingly low. Surprising as this could be the most far reaching vote anyone will have for years to come.

Second this. I voted YES for all of these reasons. Its about looking longterm not just for tomorrow. However, tomorrow will tell how both groups are looking. Sadly, I'm not sure we'll know how the majority feel at DAL as the voter turnout is shockingly low. Surprising as this could be the most far reaching vote anyone will have for years to come.

Good for you. Hopefully the voter turnout issue will change here in the last 24 hours of the vote.

Second this. I voted YES for all of these reasons. Its about looking longterm not just for tomorrow. However, tomorrow will tell how both groups are looking. Sadly, I'm not sure we'll know how the majority feel at DAL as the voter turnout is shockingly low. Surprising as this could be the most far reaching vote anyone will have for years to come.

It's not so surprising to me. Most guys here see very little to be excited about with the JPWA. In hindsight they may have been better off adding a few more bones to the the JPWA to get guys more interested instead of the few small additions and the vague assurance that this SLI process is much better than the traditional policy.

Sadly, I'm not sure we'll know how the majority feel at DAL as the voter turnout is shockingly low. Surprising as this could be the most far reaching vote anyone will have for years to come.

I'm curious how you know what the voter turnout is so far?? I voted today, and you may have a lot of guys voting up to the eleventh hour (or 14:59th hour in this case).

If you're correct about a low turnout, I'll be pretty disappointed...this is one of the most important votes we may face in our careers.

Yes, I have heard something about eventually being able make a JS res on-line. We can already make a NRSA listing on-line. We are switching over from e-crew to i-crew this month or next, which is huge. No more java applet garbage.
Great, thanks...good news for sure.

With your head IT person taking over the combined group, hopefully she can get us into the 21st century.

I did not know that! Yeah the IT department is real good here.......we've gotten some nice goodies last several years.

Thanks for the info,
Ferd

I'm curious how you know what the voter turnout is so far?? I voted today, and you may have a lot of guys voting up to the eleventh hour (or 14:59th hour in this case).

If you're correct about a low turnout, I'll be pretty disappointed...this is one of the most important votes we may face in our careers.

Talked with the MEC last Wed. That info was good as of last Wed. but let's hope more people do decide to participate. The number I heard floated as to how many people had actually voted was disturbingly low.

I don't get why you guys are so protective of less than 200 management selected pilots with special pay and conditions that reduce the total contract dollars to share for pilots actually flying the line.

Additional reason: When you are on strike, a seniority list instructor is not obligated to train your scab replacement.

Yes, I have heard something about eventually being able make a JS res on-line. We can already make a NRSA listing on-line. We are switching over from e-crew to i-crew this month or next, which is huge. No more java applet garbage.

How do you guys reserve JS while on a trip/rotation overseas? At NW we can just reserve it online. Does DL provide a toll free number in each country overseas (doubt it)? Which IT person is going to head up the combined unit (ex-NW or DL)?

If you've got over 2000 hours, you'll pay exactly $0 for the DPMA equivalent benefit. You trade in your sick leave bank for the exact same protection you currently have. Not an issue. And for those with low sick banks, they'll get protection your system doesn't have at a very low cost.

Slow,
It is an issue for me. I can call in sick and use up 2000 hours of time and not come to work for the whole time. I can not do that at Dal. This is something that i am loosing. To say that this is not an issue is total bull. This is $244,000 dollar value that I am trading for 300 hours in 3 years rolling and not paying 50 per month.


I don't get why you guys are so protective of less than 200 management selected pilots with special pay and conditions that reduce the total contract dollars to share for pilots actually flying the line. I much prefer our system, where pilots are treated equally. The idea of a management selectee being able to bump me because his job training is more important than my job of generating revenue is BS.

I trust an equal pilot that is flying the line to be a much better instructor than a company paid ATI. We have both and the company guys do a good job but they are limited to sim knowledge and do not have the benefit of flying the line. The compnay can not tell our pilot instructors what to do like they can a management instructor. Just my preference.

Another crock. There is less than one hour difference in flying between DAL and NWA pilots. The ALV is for initial line construction. Your method forces people to fly that don't want to fly. Ours allows those that want to fly to pick up more. I'll take the more flexible system.

I give on this. Sounds like I can fly the same hours over there as NWA.


That 3% company paid contribution is included in your pay rate. If you want to say you lost the 3%, then you gained a whole lot more than $8 per hour - you can't count it twice. It was your money all along. With the JCBA you'll get a lot more DC sooner than you would have in your own plan. That's a real sacrifice for you, I know.:rolleyes: Btw, you'll start getting it in 2010, and by 2014 you'll be getting 14%, vice the ZERO you're currently receiving, and the 3% you were swcheduled to receive under your own contract.

My point here is that I am loosing the company putting in 3% an then I can put in my max to 401k making my 401k contribution go down. This is a loss for me.


Don't know if you noticed, but your medical plan is coming over as DPMP option N at the same premium you currently pay. Are you saying your medical currently sucks? The loss is, as you've accurately pointed out, in retirement medical. Ours sucks. You'll have to use all that extra retirement money for something.

Not so. Our union put out some good info and to have equal coverage that I have it is $250 more out of my pocket a month.

You have over 20% of your pilots systemwide on reserve. We have about 10%. Our system makes a lot more people regular lineholders. I prefer it. I understand you have a different point of view.

Our system generates more positions. To me that is a loss.

I prefer our system, where a guy going to generate revenue for the company gets a one day lead time over a guy going home, and a two day lead time on a guy traveling for pleasure.

This will be debatable . Not sure what is best here other than we have long trips that make the short time not very workable.

Yeah, life is full of choices. If you got date of hire you'd go from 1500/5300 to 1700/12500. I'm thinking that would be defined as a "windfall." Of course, we could replicate the Roberts award with a 20 year fence, and as your 742's are parked we could see cascade displacements only on your system...but I don't believe that proved very successful for Republic/NWA. I believe you called that "hell."

Here's hoping the Delta side votes in the JCBA, that we get a negotiated SLI, and we move forward as one group. I think that's the best possiblity for getting this profession and my career back on track. I'll certainly take the opportunities of where DAL/NWA are right now compared to the traditionalist unionism at AMR or UAL.[/quote]

My point is thta we are loosing some good things here and you guys aren't just suppliment us to make us happy. We are loosing our whole contract basically and there are some good things in it. That's life I guess.

good luck to us.

Additional reason: When you are on strike, a seniority list instructor is not obligated to train your scab replacement.


Strike??? In America? While still shackled to the RLA? Pass the bong over here :D

Strike??? In America? While still shackled to the RLA? Pass the bong over here :D

Spliff is somewhere around here isn't he?

Spliff is somewhere around here isn't he?

He got banned

He got banned

or is he still trying to find what delta pilots had to give up?

Strike/Lockout call it what you want... Happened in 1998, Anderson was on the property but was not CEO.

What if you have to commute the day in advance of your trip?

Originally Posted by Eric Stratton View Post
At delta how do you guys know who's going to work, home or on pleasure trips with your jumpseats?
The computer does, and when you call to book it, there are three prompts, going to work, going home, and pleasure. If you select going to work and don't have anything on your schedule, trip or reserve period, the computer won't make the reservation.

What if you have to commute the day in advance of your trip?

It recognizes 1 calendar day in advance of your trip as being "in the window" to book,


Kevin