Airline Pilot Forums

Ok, yes I did hit the search button and there's a lot of information around this forum, but a lot of that information contradicts each other and I ended more confused that when I started. Also I keep hearing that Compass is going to get the hose when DL/NW furloughs, I thought that was virtually impossible because the way it works but at this point I'm very confused and I think a lot of people are too. Can a Compass driver with the contract in his/her hand explain me with details how the flow throug/flow back works and risk/advantages associated with it?

Compass pilots are eligible to flow through to Delta after 30 months of employment AND are a captain.

Delta pilots are eligible to flow back at the rate of 20/month (training limit) and can flush all but the top 10% of pilots at Compass.

There are others here that can explain the LOA between Delta and its pilots, but for the near term, furloughs are not expected. It is IF they furlough, not WHEN.

Compass pilots are eligible to flow through to Delta after 30 months of employment AND are a captain.

Delta pilots are eligible to flow back at the rate of 20/month (training limit) and can flush all but the top 10% of pilots at Compass.

There are others here that can explain the LOA between Delta and its pilots, but for the near term, furloughs are not expected. It is IF they furlough, not WHEN.

So this flowbacks would displace the captains and have more seniority than any compass guy?

So this flowbacks would displace the captains and have more seniority than any compass guy?

Yes, that is true.

So this flowbacks would displace the captains and have more seniority than any compass guy?

The only way a Compass guy cant be bumped is if that pilot chooses to turn down the flowthrough when the opportunity arises. Since no one has reached that point all can be bumped.

So this flowbacks would displace the captains and have more seniority than any compass guy?


Yes, unless the compass pilot was eligible for a flow up and turned it down. Otherwise, he/she would be junior to ALL flow backs.

Flow down "probably" wont happen. It would cost NWA more money to do so. Here is why.. A first year NWA FO makes $30 per hour on all equipment. If the company furloughs then that same pilot flows down to Compass and now makes $62 per hour, more than double what he/she would have been making at NWA/DAL. It wouldnt benifit the company to do that...That would make some pilots happy and as we all know, airline managment isnt happy until we are unhappy...

I understand Mesaba now has a flow thru/back agreement as well. Can anyone verify this?

I understand Mesaba now has a flow thru/back agreement as well. Can anyone verify this?

Mesaba getting flow-through is news to me. Just because a regional is a wholly owned, doesn't mean there is flow-through. I may be wrong, but I thought that the only ones with flow-through is Compass. They've been dangling it infront of PDT pilots forever, but they only recieved preferential hiring.

Where have you been? XJ indeed has flowthru - in fact about 12 have already flowed. We were sending 3/month until Sept. and then 9/mo. Unfortunately when NWA stopped their hiring, the flow stopped. It took affect in Jan of '08 and has different terms than those of the CP flow. Less can flow up but the flow up numbers are far more realistic for an airline to handle and the flowbacks wouldn't be nearly as devastating.

Flow down "probably" wont happen. It would cost NWA more money to do so. Here is why.. A first year NWA FO makes $30 per hour on all equipment. If the company furloughs then that same pilot flows down to Compass and now makes $62 per hour, more than double what he/she would have been making at NWA/DAL. It wouldnt benifit the company to do that...That would make some pilots happy and as we all know, airline managment isnt happy until we are unhappy...

Yeah but what if it isn't a 1st year NWA guy/gal. Then they'd probably be taking a pay cut.

Yeah but what if it isn't a 1st year NWA guy/gal. Then they'd probably be taking a pay cut.

More than likely they wont furlough out of seniority. If after the merger they furlough roughly 1000 pilots from both DAL and NWA that's been hired in the last year, then they all get a pay raise if they get furlough and flow back.. The company loose...

More than likely they wont furlough out of seniority. If after the merger they furlough roughly 1000 pilots from both DAL and NWA that's been hired in the last year, then they all get a pay raise if they get furlough and flow back.. The company loose...

They won't be furloughing for a while... supposedly have a 2 to 3 year no furlough clause in the new joint DAL\NWA contract! Plus, staffing at the DAL crew ratio will necessitate hiring once the merger is final.

I've seen flow backs work like a charm for a lot of mainline pilots. The percentage of pilots that actually get to flow-thru....not so much. But I'm sure the Compass/NWA/DAL flow-thru is a lot different than all the other flow-thru agreements and will work like a charm for the regional guys.

Mesaba getting flow-through is news to me. Just because a regional is a wholly owned, doesn't mean there is flow-through. I may be wrong, but I thought that the only ones with flow-through is Compass. They've been dangling it infront of PDT pilots forever, but they only recieved preferential hiring.

You are wrong:cool:.
We do have a flow through at XJ. 13 people already flowed up prior to the hiring stoppage at NWA. What flows up is what can come back basically at XJ.

You are wrong:cool:.
We do have a flow through at XJ. 13 people already flowed up prior to the hiring stoppage at NWA. What flows up is what can come back basically at XJ.

Yea got it, somebody else already clued me in back on the first page. I guess I just didn't realize as more people talk about the compass flowthrough than mesaba. Thanks though.

Does Comair have a flow agreement too?

Yea got it, somebody else already clued me in back on the first page. I guess I just didn't realize as more people talk about the compass flowthrough than mesaba. Thanks though.

True they do! The problem with any flow right now is the mothership. Hopefully they start hiring again so we can make all this relevant:rolleyes:.

Remember, what goes up can always come down... At Eagle, we had a few flowthough and a ton flowback, now called FOback

Flowthrough is very rarely, if ever, beneficial for the regional airline pilots. It is mostly just furlough protection for the majors. However, the other flow agreements at Eagle and XJT are not quite the same since Compass will only have 360 pilots by year's end. That's not a whole lot of spots for the furloughs to flow back to. Whereas Eagle and XJT had many more spots to flow into. We shall see.

But, as I've told others, coming to Compass because of the flow is the absolute wrong reason to do so. I know I am just hoping that agreement can hold up through 2012, so that I can flow up, but I really don't expect to.