Airline Pilot Forums

Oil is racing below $100/bbl.

The company is on track to make an incredible amount of money from "synergies" (i.e., furloughing me).

The amount of money the "new" Delta stands to make simply from the credit card company who wins the bid to hold DAL's frequent flier card could have singlehandedly supported far higher pay and QOL for all of us.

"I told you so" doesn't even come close to the appropriate response to your unimaginative, visionless, spineless, "strategy" in the joint contract negotiation.

DALPA and you "yes" people touted this as the fastest way back to restoration. I call BS, and thank you for screwing all of us out of thousands of dollars and huge quality of life increases we could have had with a little leadership and foresight.

You have turned this new contract into the baseline, into what we will have to chip away at in 5 or 6 years just to get a respectable cost-of-living increase, to say nothing about your laughable assertion that we can get "restoration" in several years when we have ZERO leverage, while DALPA was unwilling to even attempt to make a dent with all the leverage in the world this time around.

I hope to return DALPA's favor in kind one day. The moment I have the chance to volunteer for, vote for, contribute financially to, or in any other way propagate the creation of a new union, I will.

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.

Lee Moak, union stooges, et al, I sure hope your free trips to the Cheetah Lounge and kickbacks from managment made this all worthwhile.

[quote=Spaceman Spliff;459272]The company is on track to make an incredible amount of money from "synergies" (i.e., furloughing me).

The amount of money the "new" Delta stands to make simply from the credit card company who wins the bid to hold DAL's frequent flier card could have singlehandedly supported far higher pay and QOL for all of us[qoute]


While I voted no, it was not because of the contract itself. Is it as good as I wanted? No. But it's not far off. The company making money is a good thing. I would rather err to the side of taking too little from the company than taking too much.

I bet you don't get furloughed. You can and likely will get screwed in the SLI, but you won't lose your job.

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.


Are you even off probabtion yet? Since you don't have that much time invested in the job and are convinced you're getting furloughed, why not get a head start out the door if this place isn't up to your expectations. Did you even do any due diligence as to how acquiesent the Delta pilots are to management? I've been here over eight years, been furloughed, and could have told you that anyone advocating a "NO" vote was trying to **** up a rope. There's a reason Delta does the psych eval, even though some non-Stepford pilots do tend to filter through. If this is your reaction to this vote, I predict a long and non-fulfilling career if you stay. Sorry for the bad news.

However, if oil goes back to over $130.00 if Ike trashes the Gulf oil industry, will you then say, "Oh, never mind."?

Are you even off probabtion yet? Since you don't have that much time invested in the job and are convinced you're getting furloughed, why not get a head start out the door if this place isn't up to your expectations. Did you even do any due diligence as to how acquiesent the Delta pilots are to management? I've been here over eight years, been furloughed, and could have told you that anyone advocating a "NO" vote was trying to **** up a rope. There's a reason Delta does the psych eval, even though some non-Stepford pilots do tend to filter through. If this is your reaction to this vote, I predict a long and non-fulfilling career if you stay. Sorry for the bad news.

However, if oil goes back to over $130.00 if Ike trashes the Gulf oil industry, will you then say, "Oh, never mind."?

Ditto...from a NWA guy who voted yes...don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out...bye bye. Oil may be below $100 today...it may not be tomorrow...too many uncertainties out there right now.

Oil is racing below $100/bbl.

The company is on track to make an incredible amount of money from "synergies" (i.e., furloughing me).

The amount of money the "new" Delta stands to make simply from the credit card company who wins the bid to hold DAL's frequent flier card could have singlehandedly supported far higher pay and QOL for all of us.

"I told you so" doesn't even come close to the appropriate response to your unimaginative, visionless, spineless, "strategy" in the joint contract negotiation.

DALPA and you "yes" people touted this as the fastest way back to restoration. I call BS, and thank you for screwing all of us out of thousands of dollars and huge quality of life increases we could have had with a little leadership and foresight.

You have turned this new contract into the baseline, into what we will have to chip away at in 5 or 6 years just to get a respectable cost-of-living increase, to say nothing about your laughable assertion that we can get "restoration" in several years when we have ZERO leverage, while DALPA was unwilling to even attempt to make a dent with all the leverage in the world this time around.

I hope to return DALPA's favor in kind one day. The moment I have the chance to volunteer for, vote for, contribute financially to, or in any other way propagate the creation of a new union, I will.

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.

Lee Moak, union stooges, et al, I sure hope your free trips to the Cheetah Lounge and kickbacks from managment made this all worthwhile.


Spaceman,

I am a no voter as well, but if you are indeed correct, we have outstanding profit sharing to take advantage of those profits. Regardless, it's over and done.

Have you been drinking? Where did this rant come from?

Is it yes to LOA #19 or the JC?

LOA 19 is where the DAL pilots had bargaining power imo. The co had to have those allowances (scope) to get the deal moving. This is where we could of really made things hard for mngt. The JC is a different beast imo, the merger was going to happen no matter how either group voted on the JC.

Again, if this group (DAL) wanted more $$$ the time to get it was when the company needed something. Let me think what did they need........ hmmm.

I didn't vote yes on everything, but I certainly don't blame those that did. It's their right to vote how they want, this beast is what it is. If it really uh....hacks you off enough, shall we say, maybe you should find a job where you get to control things instead of being 1 of 7,400 and having to live with the results.

Oh yeah, and EVERYONE knew oil was going down to $100.00......right?

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Dr5115/12.gif

And I thought our shrink screened guys like this out! (SS)
You are entitled to your opinion, however, I bet if you had to put your name and employee number by this rant it would not be as strong. .... Fire Away..... Remember you have a right to quit but I bet you will continue to work here under these miserable conditions. :rolleyes:

Spaceman,

I am a no voter as well, but if you are indeed correct, we have outstanding profit sharing to take advantage of those profits. Regardless, it's over and done.

I haven't seen the language on profit sharing... can you fill in some of the details?

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.

Lee Moak, union stooges, et al, I sure hope your free trips to the Cheetah Lounge and kickbacks from managment made this all worthwhile.

I truly hope you are not an FFDO. I cannot imagine you being able to pass a psych eval.

Carl

Space,

Welcome back. I wonder... did you vote for the first agreement, LOA 19?

Senor,

Put down the computer, walk away, just walk away and relax a bit. As for being furloughed that is always a possibility in this industry, with or without a merger, but for what it's worth we are really running short over here at NWA and this is before we implement the DAL rules. We've had a lot of guys retire in the last six months, close to 200 since January, and I expect a lot more in the near future. Their staffing is based on parking 9s if they keep some of the 9s or not pickle some 57s/320s then we are going to be way short. If you think your lot is so bad with the combined DAL/NWA ask a USAir or United pilot if they would trade places with you!

Spliff,

You're not supposed to inhale until after you've retired. You're just having a bad trip. Turn on Casey Jones by the Dead and things will at least feel a little more mellow.

Spliff,
I voted yes which is great because I love hiking. Could it have been better - yes, but that doesn't matter - Sometimes you have to decide between two imperfect choices. I hope oil keeps dropping - I know it would be horrible if DAL makes some big bucks, but ask your buddies at UAL, CAL, or almost any other airline how they are doing.
Like I said, its not perfect but just like McCain/Obama sometimes both options suck - in these types of situations pick the least sucky option.

:) Scoop

Space,

Welcome back. I wonder... did you vote for the first agreement, LOA 19?

Not that I agree with anything he says, but if he did vote for LOA 19 you need to thank him, because it got you those new payrates you are about to enjoy ace...

The vote ended up the way it did because that is how the pilot group voted, that may seem like an idiotic statement, but it's the entire backbone of what an organized labor union is all about. The pilot group has it's elected officials and they pitch major decisions, such as contract renewals, to the pilot group to vote on. There is no merit in disowning your pilot group if you vote one way and find out that the majority voted another way, this is the way of our democratic union representation.
Maybe we could have negotiated a better contract or maybe we would have lost all but some remnants of LOA 19, it's a gamble and a risk anyway you look at it. I do think it's important to negotiate and fight for the best possible contract, but I think it's equally, if not more, important to unify the pilot group.
Unified pilot group is better equipped to negotiate against management for the best possible contract.
A divided pilot group will endlessly bicker within their ranks and never bring real change to it's pilots.
Spliff, I admire your commitment in trying to improve the overall wages for all of us, we need people like you who are continuously looking to make things better, but at this point we are all better off backing our fellow pilots.

In the ensuing months, I think that all of the DAL pilots will be happy with the way the vote was cast.
Lots is about ready to happen as soon as DCC. Do not believe it, just watch.

FWIW, NWA does need to furlough. Whether they will grant the 200 early outs that are needed to negate this is still up for debate.

Spliff,

Do you want to switch with me? I'll take your job with DELTA. You can have my job throwing boxes for UPS every weeknight getting paid $8.50/hr while my wife works long hours. All this just to pay the bills. You know what? I'm still happy because I have good health, a great family and I know this is all temporary. The flying jobs will get better in the future. I've known/worked with bitter people before and here is some free advice...

1. Relax and be happy with what you have. A lot of other people have it worse.
2. Control the things you can (flying safe) but be prepared for the things you can't (furlough).
3. Most folks don't want to be around a bitter, complaining person. Do your fellow crewmembers a favor and put your thoughts down on paper then send it your union and company reps. Leave it go at that point.

Good Luck and I'll say a prayer for you tonight. You need peace my friend.

C9

The vote ended up the way it did because that is how the pilot group voted, that may seem like an idiotic statement, but it's the entire backbone of what an organized labor union is all about.

What happened to nobility in having a monarch?

I voted no and encourage others to vote no however I respect the right of every pilot to vote for what he felt was best for their family. There would reasons to vote yes and reasons to vote no. The balance was different for each pilot. If I were a junior pilot I would have voted yes. Low pilot costs give the company more capital and room to expand and limit the chance of furloughs. Since I am senior a no vote was simple for me. There was nothing this contract offered me except 10 years of Chapter 11 wages.

As to your comments about your fellow pilots and how they choose to vote. Voting is a individual right. They looked at the pros and cons and voted for what they felt was best for their families. Since you feel as strongly as you do and I assume are a man of integrity then this must be your last month with the company. I am sure you have turned in your resignation and will be leaving us at the end of the month. I know there is no way you would continue to work with people you feel such contempt for or for a company you hate so much. Good luck in your new job and I hope it goes well for you.

Methinks someone had a case of "I forgot to log off" syndrome and someone else took advantage of it.

Oil is racing below $100/bbl.

The company is on track to make an incredible amount of money from "synergies" (i.e., furloughing me).

The amount of money the "new" Delta stands to make simply from the credit card company who wins the bid to hold DAL's frequent flier card could have singlehandedly supported far higher pay and QOL for all of us.

"I told you so" doesn't even come close to the appropriate response to your unimaginative, visionless, spineless, "strategy" in the joint contract negotiation.

DALPA and you "yes" people touted this as the fastest way back to restoration. I call BS, and thank you for screwing all of us out of thousands of dollars and huge quality of life increases we could have had with a little leadership and foresight.

You have turned this new contract into the baseline, into what we will have to chip away at in 5 or 6 years just to get a respectable cost-of-living increase, to say nothing about your laughable assertion that we can get "restoration" in several years when we have ZERO leverage, while DALPA was unwilling to even attempt to make a dent with all the leverage in the world this time around.

I hope to return DALPA's favor in kind one day. The moment I have the chance to volunteer for, vote for, contribute financially to, or in any other way propagate the creation of a new union, I will.

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.

Lee Moak, union stooges, et al, I sure hope your free trips to the Cheetah Lounge and kickbacks from managment made this all worthwhile.

Spliff,

Upon further review, how do you intend to "pay us back in kind"? What do you mean by this? Were you furloughed or a new hire? There are things I wish were different but I think DALPA has excelled over the other legacy MECs. If you were furloughed, you enjoyed COBRA benefits paid for by DAL pilots for as long as you needed them. You came back with longevity, something that I don't think any other carrier gave its pilots and that was worth tens of thousands. You also got the best allocation given to any pilot group. For the recalled guys, that was worth around $150k. You got the only pay raise a legacy group has seen. What causes you to "hate" ALPA, DALPA and the rest of the pilot group that voted differently than you?

I voted no and encourage others to vote no however I respect the right of every pilot to vote for what he felt was best for their family. There would reasons to vote yes and reasons to vote no. The balance was different for each pilot. If I were a junior pilot I would have voted yes. Excellent post. I'm a junior pilot and a no voter.

The pay was OK in my view. Near the top of the industry in my category. I also liked the parity for NWA, since getting their morale up also makes working at the "World's Preeminent Global Airline" more pleasant.

What I could not abide was the acceptance of bankruptcy scope that allows the outsourcing of NWA's DC9 flying to newer and more efficient jets which will not be flown by mainline pilots. A yes vote felt like a vote FOR a furlough.

ACL makes it sound like good things are just around the corner and I hope he is correct.

There are things coming. All of the info will start to come out after DCC. Lots of decisions have been made.
Look for longer trips, and your ER guys get ready to cover five theaters. Many have been correct, the cost of opening bids up prior to DCC is cost prohibitive.

Still thinking of going ER? Does this make it better?

Will domestic 757/767 keep shrinking?

What is coming to Atlanta, other than 747's?

What's happening to MD88's & DC9's?

I like rumors if they go down like White Russians.

yes-yes
yes
320,dc-9
msp,dtw

There are things coming. All of the info will start to come out after DCC. Lots of decisions have been made.
Look for longer trips, and your ER guys get ready to cover five theaters. Many have been correct, the cost of opening bids up prior to DCC is cost prohibitive.

While you might be right, you crack me up... It's like you are a fortune teller. "Sir, you will live a long life" (Somebody please define long for me).

Do you have an inside source that would actually tell you anythinng KNOWING that you are posting this on public forums? I really don't believe you do, so it is mostly conjecture on your part.

That being said, I hope you are correct. ;)

Ask your CP's they will be very open telling you which way they(company) are thinking. Truly not a secret.
Just ask the questions.

You can think what you want. Me saying good things are coming, is a personal opinion.
Simply put to move airframes to different city pairs and not open new bases will cause longer trips. That is not rocket science, it is common sense.
If you have noticed, I have been non specific. There is a reason for that.
Believe what you want, I am not trying to prove myself at all. Time will be a better judge.

ACL65 has been a good source. You can have the opinion you want, but his crystal ball is better than most.

What he writes matches what I've been hearing, FWIW.

Thanks.
FWIW you need to ask the right questions to get the correct answers.
Many things are part of non-disclosure agreements that many have signed. Get a non answer to a very specific question and you will have you answer.

ACL65 has been a good source. You can have the opinion you want, but his crystal ball is better than most.

What he writes matches what I've been hearing, FWIW.

Agreed. He does an excellent job.

Oil is racing below $100/bbl.


Wow!!! That's cheap oil, they're giving it away.:rolleyes:

Why be unhappy your whole career being associated with pilots who obviously don't measure up to your standards of toughness, why not resign and apply at another carrier with a tougher group of hombres? You'll be happier and somehow we'll manage to get along without you.

Or just continue to be irked for the rest of your life. Giving yourself stress like that leads to heart attacks.

That's why he needs the medicinal marijuana.

Yeah I guess so.
Hey spiff do you live in Dallas?

Hey guys, I'm just trying to stir the pot and start sowing the seeds for a HUGE contract next time around (or earlier). I honestly do not think we were represented well at the latest negotiations. We need to have more imagination and be willing to take some risk if we expect any kind of worthwhile reward. I sincerely apologize for throwing ACL and others under the bus in my recent posts.

I enjoy working at Delta, and I will enjoy working for the "new" Delta. I am just very dedicated to obtaining restoration as soon as possible, and I don't think we're going about it the right way.

Management is not DALPA's friend, and they will never give us anything. I'm tired of DALPA and management having the same opinion on everything. They shouldn't.

Oil is racing below $100/bbl.

The company is on track to make an incredible amount of money from "synergies" (i.e., furloughing me).

The amount of money the "new" Delta stands to make simply from the credit card company who wins the bid to hold DAL's frequent flier card could have singlehandedly supported far higher pay and QOL for all of us.

"I told you so" doesn't even come close to the appropriate response to your unimaginative, visionless, spineless, "strategy" in the joint contract negotiation.

DALPA and you "yes" people touted this as the fastest way back to restoration. I call BS, and thank you for screwing all of us out of thousands of dollars and huge quality of life increases we could have had with a little leadership and foresight.

You have turned this new contract into the baseline, into what we will have to chip away at in 5 or 6 years just to get a respectable cost-of-living increase, to say nothing about your laughable assertion that we can get "restoration" in several years when we have ZERO leverage, while DALPA was unwilling to even attempt to make a dent with all the leverage in the world this time around.

I hope to return DALPA's favor in kind one day. The moment I have the chance to volunteer for, vote for, contribute financially to, or in any other way propagate the creation of a new union, I will.

Until then, please know that I hate everything ALPA, DALPA, and you "yes men" stand for, and will do everything I can to pay you back in kind.

Lee Moak, union stooges, et al, I sure hope your free trips to the Cheetah Lounge and kickbacks from managment made this all worthwhile.

Sorry Spliff,

But re-read your posts. You did more than stir the pot. You threatened to pay an entire employee group "back in kind". You hate ALPA, DALPA and people like me who voted with possibly a more "enlightened" mindset than you have. You threatened to send money to create a new union. Last I knew you should be lucky you don't share your identity. This is SCAB mentality. Not crossing a picket line scab, but destruction of our union scab. I've been on strike before and do not ever use that word. But that's what you declared.

You again offer no alternative plan on how you would have "achieved" your gains that should have been demanded by us and easily afforded by the company. If I am your enemy, what does that make you? You will have to dig a little deeper if I'm inclined to think you are sincere with your rants and subsequent apology. I used to tell people that you're free to say whatever you want, but remember there are consequences for your words.

Management is not DALPA's friend, and they will never give us anything. I'm tired of DALPA and management having the same opinion on everything. They shouldn't.

Hmm, would you rather work for AA or UAL where management and the union hate each other? I wouldn't. For all our faults, I think we have it pretty good.

+1

Delta is the best place I have ever worked and every time I go to work I hope we kick every other airline's butt. Still voted no.

I don't think the pilots at Chautaquashuttleaireastwestskymesadommid-alaska and air frog connection should be flying Delta passengers

Hey guys, I'm just trying to stir the pot and start sowing the seeds for a HUGE contract next time around (or earlier). I honestly do not think we were represented well at the latest negotiations. We need to have more imagination and be willing to take some risk if we expect any kind of worthwhile reward. I sincerely apologize for throwing ACL and others under the bus in my recent posts.

I enjoy working at Delta, and I will enjoy working for the "new" Delta. I am just very dedicated to obtaining restoration as soon as possible, and I don't think we're going about it the right way.

Management is not DALPA's friend, and they will never give us anything. I'm tired of DALPA and management having the same opinion on everything. They shouldn't.

Duuuuude, come on.

Management is not DALPA's friend, and they will never give us anything. I'm tired of DALPA and management having the same opinion on everything. They shouldn't.

It's interesting that you have this attitude, yet that is exactly what happens at the most profitable airline and one which is the most unionized. Just because you're labor doesn't automatically make you diametrically opposed to management. You need to stop thinking tactically and start thinking strategically.

Not that I agree with anything he says, but if he did vote for LOA 19 you need to thank him, because it got you those new payrates you are about to enjoy ace...

Dude, come on. Please don't start the game of "you need to thank me for your payrates." Relax and let him answer the question I was asking him.

The point is, if he voted for LOA 19, how can he be-little anyone who vote for this new contract, claiming it is insufficient, since it is pretty much the same as what you had before?

Thanks for your patience in letting him answer, ace.... ;)

space case went way beyond stirring the pot.

stirring the pot is asking if he ever came up with things that the delta pilot group has given up with the new contract.

is he from msp?

yes-yes
yes
320,dc-9
msp,dtw

Gotta say BS on the -88s going to MSP and DTW. Some maybe..a few at that.
They use them like big RJs to feed ATL........and remember...people love their frequency. A 320 and an RJ will not feed ATL.

I did not say all. They are not moving entire fleets.

DALPA just agreed to a change in flying hours for M88 copilots. It looks like this increase will mean the hiring in the fall will now not happen. Rumor is that they did not want to hire pilots in the DALPA side when there will be a surplus on the NWA side that can be transferred over to fill the void after DCC. The waiver is for Jan, Feb and March would be about the time it would take to retrain NWA pilots on the Maddog after DCC. Waiting for more information from the union on why they would grant this concession and limit hiring.

Waiting for more information from the union on why they would grant this concession and limit hiring.

And why there aren't any contract enhancements for the relief. I know, saves displacements...

Waiting for more information from the union on why they would grant this concession and limit hiring.

marketing decided to fly an additional 3000 hours a month on the 88 during the first quarter. This is time that was going to be flown by RJs, but will now be mainline. Even if we started hiring today, new pilots would not be ready in time to cover this flying. Realistically, you can't just snap your fingers and have new hired in class overnight. Add to that, for budgetary reasons, they don't want to start hiring until 09.

The union's choice was grant the waiver or risk losing this flying back to RJs. What would you have done? I think the union did exactly the right thing this time.

They did, and it allows the company to hire after SLI. It allows some other issues to be worked out.
As for displacements, it would make no sense to do it, since we will will be pulling up for the 777 here in the next few months.

DALPA just agreed to a change in flying hours for M88 copilots. It looks like this increase will mean the hiring in the fall will now not happen. Rumor is that they did not want to hire pilots in the DALPA side when there will be a surplus on the NWA side that can be transferred over to fill the void after DCC. The waiver is for Jan, Feb and March would be about the time it would take to retrain NWA pilots on the Maddog after DCC. Waiting for more information from the union on why they would grant this concession and limit hiring.

Not going to happen. NWA management sees a need for staffing increase once the merger is announced. VP of Flight Ops doesn't think we will need to hire in the near future, but sees increases in our monthly maxes early next year.

Last I heard was that NW Pilots and Delta Pilots can not cross train on equipment until after SOC, which is not going to happen before this time next year or later. Am I missing something?

Yes a LOA.
Truly a lot is assumed, but many that I talk to state, DAL can hire NWA guys and just give them a DAL seniority number. It is a DAL HR deal, but if needed the unions will more than likely be brought it.
It will be a non even if more planes are brought out of the desert and 50's are put in the desert, and management allows at least 200 early outs.

If that happens, it will be interesting to see how they work the seniority list for those guys. Do they use there NW or Delta seniority? Granted, it probably wouldn't make a lot of difference.

But as a new hire Delta guy, they would have to go to indoc etc and I don't see how any one could be trained and ready by Jan 09 with a DCC of 1 Nov.

With the LOA just signed they would not need NWA pilots on the Delta side until Apr 09. Plenty of time to get them trained. It would only take a side letter from both unions to move the pilots over. NWA/Republic did it after their merger.

I think that was the root cause to do it. It allows the SLI to be completed and then have the staffing issues dealt with. In the interim they do not need to hire the 50 or so needed for later this fall.
It results in an ordered seniority list with out other issues after SOC.

Dude, come on. Please don't start the game of "you need to thank me for your payrates." Relax and let him answer the question I was asking him.

The point is, if he voted for LOA 19, how can he be-little anyone who vote for this new contract, claiming it is insufficient, since it is pretty much the same as what you had before?

Thanks for your patience in letting him answer, ace.... ;)

So then tell why you are so interested in how anybody voted on LOA 19? I know exactly why. You just won't admit it here. You just want to start a fight over water that has passed under the bridge and has no current bearing on the current contract before us.

This contract IS insufficient, and it's none of anybody's business how I vote. I really find it amusing that guys stand up and say "I voted this way or that way... " as if that makes you a better person/pilot/union member because of that vote. There's a reason that votes are done behind curtains. If it makes you feel better, then by all means, tell us how you will vote for President. I really couldn't care less who you vote for nor the reasons that you vote that way. Why does it matter to you?

So then tell why you are so interested in how anybody voted on LOA 19? I know exactly why. You just won't admit it here. You just want to start a fight over water that has passed under the bridge and has no current bearing on the current contract before us.

This contract IS insufficient, and it's none of anybody's business how I vote. I really find it amusing that guys stand up and say "I voted this way or that way... " as if that makes you a better person/pilot/union member because of that vote. There's a reason that votes are done behind curtains. If it makes you feel better, then by all means, tell us how you will vote for President. I really couldn't care less who you vote for nor the reasons that you vote that way. Why does it matter to you?

Sir,

I have no idea of why you assume you can reach inside my head and tell me why I asked a question.

But, the title of this thread is, "DAL "Yes" Voters: Take a hike."

Just to inform you of my thinking when I asked ANOTHER PERSON -Not you, but Space- a question; I was trying to find out if he voted for LOA 19 then why would he find this joint agreement so lacking all of a sudden. Basically, in my opinion, if he did vote for LOA 19, he can't turn around and say that the joint agreement was inadequate because it was pretty much the same agreement, he voted for earlier. (If he did vote for LOA 19)

I was planning on defending anyone who voted for LOA 19 and then voted for this joint agreement as at least being consistent.

Now as for all that other stuff you spouted off, I have no clue of what you are talking about. I didn't want to start a fight, I just wanted to tell Space to shut up and row, because if he voted for the previous agreement he dare not say anything to anyone who voted for this agreement. I didn't ask how you voted and I didn't and still don't care. My question was addressed to the thread starter who was attacking how other people voted.

I really don't even know how to address your last paragraph because it seems that your super-intuitive powers failed to pick up on the fact that I was trying to make those exact same points to Spaceman.

What I find interesting is that you initiate your response to me by making clear that you really didn't agree with him but then went out of you way to try to belittle me by suggesting that I owe him some thanks for my meager paycheck. So what does this say about you?

1. That while you think the new contract (K) is "insufficient," you think it is good enough for Northwest Pilots that they should have to thank all Delta pilots for getting it for "us."

&

2. You would rather ignore a fellow Delta pilot who attacks and possibly even threatens +60% of your pilot group, to instead fabricate an issue so as to initiate a debate with a NWA pilot who is probably on your side. Why? I don't know, but I suggest you try to find out.

The bottom line is that I really don't care how you voted and I didn't ask. Try being patient the next time and see where the line of questioning goes. You might find that the person asking the questions is on your side.

And for the record: O - B - A - M - A. (For all the right reasons)

New K Now ;)

And for the record: O - B - A - M - A. (For all the right reasons)

New K Now ;)

There's nothing "right" about Obama.

No for the right reasons, not the wrong ones. Same way you can look at any side of an argument.
There is no way that one person can agree with everything another is saying. It is the same with the candidates.

I did not vote for LOA 19. I will however point out that LOA 19 was sold to the pilots who voted yes as a stepping stone to the joint contract which would be much better! Since the joint contract had little to offer over 19 many who voted yes on 19 voted no on the contract. Sadly not enough voted no. There is no upside in the contract if the combined companies do very well. We simply sit and watch as our 1986 wage level gets eroded even more by inflation.

I didn't want to start a fight, I just wanted to tell Space to shut up and row, because if he voted for the previous agreement he dare not say anything to anyone who voted for this agreement.

While I agree with you that he should not be saying anything to guys who voted for this contract, you can tell him to shut up without knowing anything about his vote. But why bother? :)

I did not vote for LOA 19. I will however point out that LOA 19 was sold to the pilots who voted yes as a stepping stone to the joint contract which would be much better! Since the joint contract had little to offer over 19 many who voted yes on 19 voted no on the contract. Sadly not enough voted no. There is no upside in the contract if the combined companies do very well. We simply sit and watch as our 1986 wage level gets eroded even more by inflation.

C'mon Sailing,
The contract leaves a lot to be desired but referencing the bolded statement above, what about:

1. Profit sharing.
2. Expansion/growth/movement.
3. A modicum of stability in an otherwise turbulent industry.
4. Entering the next round of contract negotiations with a company that is doing "very well."

So to say that there is no upside is, I believe, too strong of a statement. I do agree however, that many may feel the "upsides" are inadequate.

Now will these upsides outweigh the numerous negatives? Only time will tell.:)

Scoop

Everyone wishes we could have gotten more $$$. Take away the JC and everything at Delta. Now look at the rest of the industry, what is the top 1/3 of the industry making? That's about where we're gonna end up.

Don't get me wrong, I want as much money as we can get out of the company. IMO, with Oil being VERY volatile at the moment, the economy being in the crapper, we're not gonna break the mold on $$$ at THIS TIME. The rest of the industry doesn't support it, at this time.

Maybe if the $$$ is that bad, one could go work for SWA and uh, all those other higher paying jobs?

Criticizing others for how they voted will accomplish nothing at this point. Again, we all wanted more but it is what it is. If it really sucks that bad to be at Delta, then leave.

Waiting for more information from the union on why they would grant this concession and limit hiring.

And why there aren't any contract enhancements for the relief. I know, saves displacements...

Please...displace me (to ATL where I'm more needed). Been waiting on this AE since Feb.

As to the point regarding NWA being over-manned, and moving some of them to the 88 and Delta holding off on new hiring...doesn't this smack of collusion between two companies who have yet to merge? Not arguing the merits of these actions/decisions, just wondering if there's an exception or collusion is allowed.

All of it is rumors until DCC. Then it will be in print.

All of it is rumors until DCC. Then it will be in print.

I don't think we will see a lot of info until after DCC and the SLI are complete. First joint bid is still planned for Dec 09 which is a fast timetable.

True. None of the "good goes round" will be shared until they know we will all pay nice with the SLI and however it goes.
I would not be too shocked to see a few things announced that need to start for the summer '09 schedule.

I truly hope you are not an FFDO. I cannot imagine you being able to pass a psych eval.

Carl

Carl, I can personally tell you that 50% of the FFDO's should not be. Myself included :rolleyes: