Airline Pilot Forums

Now that the seniority list is out and everybody is pizzed at everyone for some reason or the other, I am ready to move on. I would love to see what kind of flying the 737 does out of JFK and ATL. I also have a few questions about how things are done over there.

I'm thinking that maybe a few old DAL guys are interested in NWA "stuff" as well. I know, you hate our bases, our airplanes and our everything else. But, maybe you want to know what Asia is like. Maybe you want to know what flying a French airplane is like (I can't tell ya). Or, maybe you want to know what it's like to de-ice. :D

Anyway, maybe this can become a place where we --the New Delta guys-- come to exchange information.

So, I'll start off: Can anyone tell me what kind of trips the 737 flies out of JFK and ATL? I know it's all subject to change, but I like having as much information as possible.

Please, don't take it as if I'm inquiring about "your" airplanes, because in my opinion things are going to be swapped around so much in the next year or so that my 737 inquiry is more likely to be what the 320 is going to do; and if you ask about what the 330 does out of DTW or SEA is more than likely is an exploration of what the 767 might be doing out of those places.

The bottom line is that I for one am ready to move past the seniority list and look to the future. That was two days ago and there is nothing I can do about it.

Thanks in advance and feel free to ask whatever you like. :o


New K Now

New K Now,

I *think* you guys have access to DeltaNet now.

Here is where you go:

Log in.

Click on Departments / Flight Operations if it DOES NOT default to "FLIGHT OPERATIONS - PILOT" at the top left.

Click on "Pilot resources and scheduling" in the left column.

That will bring up a screen where you can see all the bid packages.

I copied this sampling from the NYC 73N (737-800) Adobe .pdf package so you can see some sample trips and destinations:

____________________________________

THERE MAY BE A CHANGE OF LAYOVER HOTELS, THE LATEST HOTEL NAME WILL BE DISPLAYED ON THE ROTATIONS IN DBMS.
NYC BASE B-73N PILOT PAIRINGS
#4001 FR EFFECTIVE DEC. 05 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 16.20
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 1671 EWR 1720 SLC 2030 5.10 738
1586 SLC 2120 BOI 2232 1.12 8.42/11.20
BOI 31.37/DOUBLETREE CLUB 6.22BL .00CRD 6.22TL
C 1153 BOI 0739 SLC 0848 1.09
1592 SLC 1000 EWR 1637 4.37 8.28/13.00
5.46BL .00CRD 5.46TL
.00DPA 1.48TRP
TOTALS---13.56TL 12.08BL 1.48CR TAFB 48.47
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4351 TU EFFECTIVE DEC. 30 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 5.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 1297 JFK 0600 ATL 0846 2.46 738
1030 ATL 0950 JFK 1209 2.19 7.39/12.00
5.05BL .00CRD 5.05TL
.10DPA .00TRP
TOTALS--- 5.15TL 5.05BL .10CR TAFB 7.39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4352 MO EFFECTIVE DEC. 01 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 6.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 601 JFK 0700 LAX 1021 6.21 738 M 7.51/12.30
LAX 18.14/WILSHIRE GRAND 6.21BL .00CRD 6.21TL
B 1172 LAX 0605 SLC 0902 1.57
094 SLC 0950 JFK 1641 4.51 9.06/13.00
6.48BL .00CRD 6.48TL
.00DPA .00TRP
TOTALS---13.09TL 13.09BL .00CR TAFB 35.11
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4353 MO EFFECTIVE DEC. 08 ONLY CHECK-IN AT 6.00
SKED ON-DUTY
DAY FLIGHT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK. EQ ACT/MAX
A 601 JFK 0700 LAX 1021 6.21 738 M 7.51/12.30
LAX 19.19/WILSHIRE GRAND 6.21BL .00CRD 6.21TL
B 1768 *LAX 0710 CVG 1423 4.13
1130 CVG 1510 BDL 1701 1.51 8.21/13.00
BDL 11.29/RAMADA INN AIRPORT 6.04BL .00CRD 6.04TL
C 1129 BDL 0600 CVG 0813* 2.13
1211 CVG 0905 PHX 1109 4.04 8.39/12.00
PHX 17.21/HILTON SQUAW PEAK 6.17BL .00CRD 6.17TL
D 638 PHX 0600 JFK 1247 4.47 6.17/13.00
4.47BL .00CRD 4.47TL
.00DPA .00TRP
TOTALS---23.29TL 23.29BL .00CR TAFB 79.17
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

Also, if you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can e-mail you the bid packets if you can't get at them.

I think it is safe to say that most of the younger DAL guys are looking at moving down from the 767/757, 737-800, or MD88/90 to DC 9 or 320/319. Or moving form ATL, SLC to DTW, MSP. So given that fact I would not think there would be much interest in the NW equiptment until it is time to be displaced to it. Go figure.

Not to mention the chance of being furloughed if they get rid of the DC9 and 747-200 after SOC which I think is very possible by the company just so they don't have to furlough out of seniority order.

Most of the Jr DAL guys had looked forward to having a fair amount of new hires coming on after them to fill our upcoming deliveries but now they have 70 lower paying soon to be retired jets and the crews to go with them that mostly came in above them on the seniority list. I would say the majority of the old DAL contingent is fairly depressed about their future upgrades and will see stagnation or backwards movement as the new DAL (NW) guys move into bigger better paying airplanes and some of our bases. Yes, I realize NW brought the 74 and 330 but for the most part the vast opportunities for NW guys to bid the 76/75 and 800 is a + for NW and a - for DAL. Not to mention still having your DB +our 401K. Things look pretty dim on the DAL side right now.

I predict 1000 furloughs after SOC, DC9 and 747-200 gone and no growth for next 4.5 years. I would expect the furloughed guys to come back as the retirements start up again in 2011 which happens to be about the same time they expect to start adding capacity back according to RA at the investors meeting. I hope I am wrong.

But hey that is just my opinion and it is not worth much.

I'll offer up the Franco-American A320/319 analysis for my interested DAL brothers and sisters. I fly out of MEM and it has been the best non-military flying I've done. I love the airplane. The sidestick is fantastic, and takes about 5 minutes to get used to. The tray table is totally civilized. I haven't gotten any egg or cheesecake on my trousers in five years. It takes a while to get used to the magic, no doubt, and everyone has had a few "magic moments", but that is what NASAP is for! The flying is brain dead easy, the legs are generally 2-3 a day and I suspect DAL will load them up on longer routes and fly the MD more like the 9, not good for the MD brethren. We do a lot of Canada, and Caribbean, West Coast, and LaGarbage. We also go to the Fargo, Bozeman, Missoula, Bismarck, and Helena's of the world. And Chicago Midway for an A game challenge. Long term, a boatload of NBA charters, 16 teams for 10 years. I'm on one now. DH to SAT, layover, fly to MIA with your Atlanta Hawks at 1400, layover 31:00, fly to ATL, layup for 24, fly to CLE, and MDW, 14 hrs, then YYZ, and home to MEM. When our rig kicks in, even better. I love them. And I've been based in MEM almost 20 years. Not like working for an airline with 12,500 pilots. I usually remember something about everyone I fly with, kids, Collierville, Germantown, country boy, or downtowner. We generally discuss pork shoulder, SEC sports, GunAmmo, and kids and wife instead of J O B. The traffic is nil except for two hours a day, the city, messed up, but unique and has it's own very valuable positives. My kids go to catholic schools, and I would not move from here for anything, period. It is quite simply, my home. Public schools are not so hot, but some are very good, Hope scholarships to Tennessee colleges are gimmees. No state income tax, a lower cost of living than just about anywhere, and if you like the outdoor sports, great hunting, fishing, golf, stumpin' catfish, and coon huntin'. Navy Millington for BX, commissary for mil types, TnANG MEM for a great guard unit, and a boatload of Navy, Marine slots for reservists at BUPERS at Millington. If I were an empty nester, I'd jump on one of the homes at Harbortown, The Bluffs, or one of the condos along the river right now. Probably, they won't stay down long, but I'd love to watch Ol Man River out my window as I wane out of this career. I live in Lakeland, on the lake and boat, kayak, fish, run, and generally forget everything else at home. Two miles away is the greatest shooting facility in the nation, lighted skeet/trap, sporting clays, cowboy action village, combat range, 600 yard highpower, various distance rifle/pistol covered ranges, fishing lakes, a club house and BBQ pavilions. Any given day there you meet all kinds, shoot, visit, and leave with new friends to go eat. If it sounds like I'm sold on the bus and MEM, you're right. It's why I'm not so upset over 1600 numbers going in front of me. I really didn't want to commute to a widebody. Now, I don't have to worry about it! To quote Pete from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou", "Come on in Boys, The Water is Fine".

Also, if you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can e-mail you the bid packets if you can't get at them.

Thanks Pack. I will try to get those retirement numbers for you. We have a program that gets them for us from our seniority and above, but I have to think about where the overall numbers would be.

Your best bet might be to get Super or someone that was hired in the last year to run their retirement numbers on EZopenboard.

Oh, I tried the DeltaNet thing. I don't think we have full access yet.

New K Now

NWA pilots have virtually no access within Deltanet. We basically get to view the Delta Daily newsletter. Mmmmm...scintillating!!

We're told NWA pilots will have deeper access to Deltanet in the "near future." Probably at some point after bid period 5. :)

Carl

Never mind -

I believe FDX is much closer to furloughs than hiring. At least according to the FDX guys. Besides the junior domiciles are Hong Kong and Paris which may sound exciting but FDX does not provide enough compensation to cover the astronomical cost of living. I believe they are offering a couple of round trip tickets a year to get you back to the states. Sounds like fun to me.

NWA pilots have virtually no access within Deltanet. We basically get to view the Delta Daily newsletter. Mmmmm...scintillating!!

We're told NWA pilots will have deeper access to Deltanet in the "near future." Probably at some point after bid period 5. :)

Carl

We don't have ANY access to your information.. as far as I know.

Steve

Never mind -

Neverminding. Trust me Bar, NWA guys aren't looking to exercise their super seniority. For me, I know there is going to be a lot of movement of aircraft and I just want to be able to do a little planning. Do I get frozen on something right now, or wait to see where things will shake down.

For the record, from what I am seeing on our board, a lot of us are not happy.

New K Now

PS. Some of our bases are not bad. I'd take DTW or MSP over NYC anyday.

NWA pilots have virtually no access within Deltanet. We basically get to view the Delta Daily newsletter. Mmmmm...scintillating!!

We're told NWA pilots will have deeper access to Deltanet in the "near future." Probably at some point after bid period 5. :)

Carl


Ok ...I'm lazy and haven't studied it, nor does it really affect me (premerger Delta) what is bid period 5...5 months of trip bidding? No laughs please.:confused:

We don't have ANY access to your information.. as far as I know.

Steve

ts,

Is there anything you want to know. :rolleyes:

Kingbird87,

Thanks for the MEM report. I'm bidding MEM first chance I get (please stay open). Can you tell me about the type of trips out of there? I'll be driving 3 hours (beats driving 2 to get on an airplane to commute), so 3-4 days would be ideal. 320 vs. DC9 on trip types and so on. Are they a lot of MEM-XXX-MEM-XXX-MEM trips or do you see a lot of different places?

Anyone have a current NWA category list?

Thanks

I lived on Mud Island/Harbortown for five years. I had a great time being close to Beale Street and the best Blues music in the country. The city leaves a lot to be desired. Crime is bad, bums everywhere, but the traffic is easy compared to ATL. I loved coming over the bridge at night onto Mud Island and driving into what felt like small resort. The sunsets were the best of any city I've been to and your cost of living is tiny compared to other cities. You can also live in nice communities and never be more than 25 minutes from the airport.

Kingbird87,

Thanks for the MEM report. I'm bidding MEM first chance I get (please stay open). Can you tell me about the type of trips out of there? I'll be driving 3 hours (beats driving 2 to get on an airplane to commute), so 3-4 days would be ideal. 320 vs. DC9 on trip types and so on. Are they a lot of MEM-XXX-MEM-XXX-MEM trips or do you see a lot of different places?

Anyone have a current NWA category list?

Thanks

My wife is from Memphis...grew up in Bartlett and went to Briarcrest Baptist and then Ole Miss. No more ties there now but I use to enjoy visting especially "Memphis in May"...good BBQ. We plan to bring the kids there next year to visit and see the King's house. BTW Elvis' Convair 880 is an old Delta 880 he bought out of the desert. Is it still there? I visited in the 1980's. Neat Pictures of it coming down EP BLVD at The Lisa Marie - Convair 880 Jet - Lisa Marie Presley, By: Elvis Australia (http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/lisa_marie_convair_880_jet.shtml)

Be happy to share my knowledge of the LAX 767 domestic and 767-ER ops if anyone is interested.

Be happy to share my knowledge of the LAX 767 domestic and 767-ER ops if anyone is interested.

Absolutely. Where do your trips go and for how long? And forgive me for asking agian, but if you are a LAX 767-ER pilot does that mean that you cannot fly any domestic trips out of there? I'm slow to grasp the concept. :D

Kingbird87,

Thanks for the MEM report. I'm bidding MEM first chance I get (please stay open). Can you tell me about the type of trips out of there? .....

Anyone have a current NWA category list?

Thanks

Moon,

Looks like they have some good trips on the 320. The vast majority are 4 or 5 day trips. Looks like the layovers are all over the system plus some Mexico stuff. Now that I look at them, the DC-9 trips look pretty good too. Not as good as the 320 but still better than the -9 trips out of DTW. (What have I been doing all these years?) PM me if you want a bid packet. I don't want to put hotel info out...

New K Now

Neverminding. Trust me Bar, NWA guys aren't looking to exercise their super seniority. For me, I know there is going to be a lot of movement of aircraft and I just want to be able to do a little planning. Do I get frozen on something right now, or wait to see where things will shake down.

Heyas nK,

Not to sound toolish, but I am recommending NWA guys do exactly that. Bid the best paying piece of equipment, as soon as you can. If that means commuting to ATL for left seat on the -88 versus lounging in DTW on the 330 right seat, then so be it.

With the severe dilution of the short term attrition and loss of position during the final years, the mid-junior NWA pilot MUST bid to start making maximum bank now to compensate for loss of future income. To do this effectively, you need to take advantage of any displacement bids.

This is an unavoidable consequence of the SLI award, and the one bright spot for NWA guys. It is what it is.

Nu

Have at it. I will take your 320 flying any day. I will do Europe and Asia when the kids are in High School and just come to ya for money!

Have at it. I will take your 320 flying any day. I will do Europe and Asia when the kids are in High School and just come to ya for money!

ACL,

You WANT to fly the French thing, after flying the wonderful Boeing? :D

What's your source say about where the 320's will be in 3 years?

I think it is safe to say that most of the younger DAL guys are looking at moving down from the 767/757, 737-800, or MD88/90 to DC 9 or 320/319. Or moving form ATL, SLC to DTW, MSP. So given that fact I would not think there would be much interest in the NW equiptment until it is time to be displaced to it. Go figure.

Not to mention the chance of being furloughed if they get rid of the DC9 and 747-200 after SOC which I think is very possible by the company just so they don't have to furlough out of seniority order.

Most of the Jr DAL guys had looked forward to having a fair amount of new hires coming on after them to fill our upcoming deliveries but now they have 70 lower paying soon to be retired jets and the crews to go with them that mostly came in above them on the seniority list. I would say the majority of the old DAL contingent is fairly depressed about their future upgrades and will see stagnation or backwards movement as the new DAL (NW) guys move into bigger better paying airplanes and some of our bases. Yes, I realize NW brought the 74 and 330 but for the most part the vast opportunities for NW guys to bid the 76/75 and 800 is a + for NW and a - for DAL. Not to mention still having your DB +our 401K. Things look pretty dim on the DAL side right now.

I predict 1000 furloughs after SOC, DC9 and 747-200 gone and no growth for next 4.5 years. I would expect the furloughed guys to come back as the retirements start up again in 2011 which happens to be about the same time they expect to start adding capacity back according to RA at the investors meeting. I hope I am wrong.

But hey that is just my opinion and it is not worth much.

That's funny. Could you be any more "Doom and Gloom"? :rolleyes:

Not in MSP or DTW. Err SLC, CVG....
If I go to MSP it will be on the ER or the 88.
But you know I will fly the French plastic jet, just to say I did it. I will go where I can hold a commutable line. If I cannot stay in ATL, I will at least go somewhere that I enjoy.

MEM trips ARE mostly 4 or 5 days, some 1,2,3 and you almost never see MEM again till the end. The exception is usually Cancun, Montego Bay, and a few Florida destinations that come back thru. I think they are afraid we'll get off if we come back home. We really hit cleanup in the batting order. We fly a good amount of West Coast, East Coast, but tend to get a lot of Northern Tier when it is January thru March. I bid for two legs a day max, no short overnights and days off. The NBA charters are plentiful and I like them, just flew one leg SAT-MIA today, had a nice brisket, beans, macaroni, and cookies on the way, now 31 hrs on Miami Beach. The big plus is the base, Wendy in Ops is a godsend, great chief pilot, friendly FA's and much less company exposure, actually none. I have always loved cities like Missoula, Bozeman, Kalispell, Calgary, Duluth in the summer, and once upon a time, Cayman. Anyone who derides the 320 hasn't flown it. It is a great jet, especially with the seats on the newer 320's and all 319's.

Anyone who derides the 320 hasn't flown it. It is a great jet, especially with the seats on the newer 320's and all 319's.

King,

I kid the 320 guys all the time. I'm sorry about talking about the 320. I'm sure it's a nice airplane to fly. I am probably just not smart enough to fly it. No, no really, it's me, not the airplane. :o

As far as seats go, you know you can't beat the DC-9. They are good for at least 2 sick calls a year for a bad back!! :eek:

New K Now


ACL,

Are you saying the 320's are coming out altogether out of DTW and MSP? I've heard 330's and -400's to go with the -88's and 737-800 in JFK. DC-9's and the -400 in ATL.

What's going to be in DTW? I heard the 767's were going there.

New K

I think it is safe to say that most of the younger DAL guys are looking at moving down from the 767/757, 737-800, or MD88/90 to DC 9 or 320/319. Or moving form ATL, SLC to DTW, MSP. So given that fact I would not think there would be much interest in the NW equiptment until it is time to be displaced to it. Go figure.

Not to mention the chance of being furloughed if they get rid of the DC9 and 747-200 after SOC which I think is very possible by the company just so they don't have to furlough out of seniority order.

Most of the Jr DAL guys had looked forward to having a fair amount of new hires coming on after them to fill our upcoming deliveries but now they have 70 lower paying soon to be retired jets and the crews to go with them that mostly came in above them on the seniority list. I would say the majority of the old DAL contingent is fairly depressed about their future upgrades and will see stagnation or backwards movement as the new DAL (NW) guys move into bigger better paying airplanes and some of our bases. Yes, I realize NW brought the 74 and 330 but for the most part the vast opportunities for NW guys to bid the 76/75 and 800 is a + for NW and a - for DAL. Not to mention still having your DB +our 401K. Things look pretty dim on the DAL side right now.

I predict 1000 furloughs after SOC, DC9 and 747-200 gone and no growth for next 4.5 years. I would expect the furloughed guys to come back as the retirements start up again in 2011 which happens to be about the same time they expect to start adding capacity back according to RA at the investors meeting. I hope I am wrong.

But hey that is just my opinion and it is not worth much.

That is for sure!

Why do you think it is only the 9 and the -200 they will park? I thought RA's statement about how the 9 is "Todays Treasure" was pretty interesting.

King,

You bus boy youze.........a jet that doesn't start down on it's own is just uncivilized! OH and the 757 cup holder takes both plastic and styro.

Just kidding of course, I wish we would get our busses back in Dallas. Two jumpseats and NEVER a weight limit no matter how hot it gets is a wonderful thang'. It looks like a great jet when I've sat up front.

Ferd <---------ex MEM bubba in my -9 days. Mem is still my favoriate base.

PS Tell Wendy her uncle fred sayz hey

Kingbird,

You're truly a "class act", and a great example for the rest of us. I would love to have a beer (or three) with you, and I'll buy em all!

ACL,

Who have you heard who is going to fill the 757 south flying out of NRT? I assume a 767 from the west coast to NRT and then pick up the south flying for a few days/week then 767 home. Any idea what base yet? Gotta get Denny to the islands before the mad cow gets too bad.........

Ferd

Wasatch, Thanks for the kind words, and I'd love to bend a few back with you and all my new Delta brothers and sisters. A few here have dissed' my attitude,(positive) and thats fine with me. I have a choice each day, and I've never gotten anything by choosing to be po'd. I didn't do too well in the computers's juggling of our list, the worst was 1700 numbers, I was at 1592 hired after me going ahead. Oh well, it happened. There has been so much happening here since we first heard the names Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, I'd be tango uniform if I chose to be po'd. I used to fly with an old Southern Airways Captain when we bid the whole month together. I'd be grumbling about everything, living in a 36 inch circle around myself. He'd say, Hey man, I can't wait to get to Indy! Why Rod?, "Man, they got the best corn in the whole system there", and he'd get a big bag of popcorn and put it on the pedestal, and he was right. We'd eat corn and live the dream! Rod died of a brain tumor at age 57, and I gave his eulogy. It ended like this. "Captain Rod, your flight today is a pattern position to your home of destination. Your logbook is clean, no write ups. Your tail number is 7777. Ship load is a crew of two, no pax. Total enroute time will be short, but your layover will last an eternity. Your copilot will be in the seat with you for the first time, but has been with you before on every flight. Wave Off will be on your left, and you have a lot of grateful people to see you off. (Hand Salute), Good Luck, Captain Rod, have a great flight home!"
Ever since that day, I've known I have a choice. And if you ever taste the corn in Indy, you'll begin to understand.

Out of all the posts I've ever seen on here, I've never seen one that puts things in perspective more than that.

Thanks for sharing that, King.

ACL,

Who have you heard who is going to fill the 757 south flying out of NRT? I assume a 767 from the west coast to NRT and then pick up the south flying for a few days/week then 767 home. Any idea what base yet? Gotta get Denny to the islands before the mad cow gets too bad.........

Ferd
Well with he way that DAL does its flying it will be a net loss of pilots needed. See it will more than likely be flown by a SEA and or LAX MSP 7Er pilot base. What that means is that you will be flying an active leg to NRT not dead heading. What this does is in essence take the two days and 28 hrs of DH pay off of each trip. I think you guys DH two to three crews a day. Now those DH will be flying legs. Trips will probably be seven to nine days and it will all be flying. Thus', we fly more, DH less and the company needs less pilots. When you add that up over a week that is at least 14 crews. Lots of bodies in my opinion!

Yep the 7Er is to go North to MSP, SEA, and DTW. The 88 can hit both coasts out of MSP, and I think DTW. I know MEH uses them out of MKE so an extra 200 miles should be doable. That means that the 9's are coming to ATL, 320's will more than likely go to SLC and CVG(maybe) The 744 are going to NYC, and ATL. The 330's to ATL, and NYC (cargo) the 777's well probably have a base in ATL, NYC, MSP and maybe LAX eventually.(Just a guess) I am sure that there will be some 320's left in the North but probably a smaller base. The need them for deep Mexico and what not. The 757 can do it, but they have other plans for those.
Now it remains to be seen how much of this is going to shift and how quickly. This is the plan. As we know plans change.
If you noticed there is no mention of the 73N in there. I personally think that we will see what happens with AS before making those plans. They are a 757 replacement on thin routes. So there is a place for them in each base.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. No matter where this goes, we have a choice to enjoy it, or whine about it. I have done both. I also know that taking the bad in stride and being grateful for the good, makes life's bumps a little less jarring.
Lets have fun, enjoy the job, and realize that IMHO in five to ten years everyone left here at the New Delta will probably be sitting at least one or more seats better off then they would have been with the stand along plan. (I know some NWA guys will argue with that, but there is going to be tremendous growth that you can not see if all you do is look at the SLI and think about what ifs. )

Ferd,

Unfortunately it looks like the mad cow is kickin' in and I've only got the rest of this season left!:( AAAAAHHHHHHH........Shirley.........Schmidt....... ..

Candace is still a knockout!!!:D

Denny

If you noticed there is no mention of the 73N in there. I personally think that we will see what happens with AS before making those plans. They are a 757 replacement on thin routes. So there is a place for them in each base.

Ok, I've thought about it for awhile and I have no idea what AS is. Please help. I'm sure I will have an "ooooaaaaah" moment when I read your response. :D

:rolleyes:Ok, I've thought about it for awhile and I have no idea what AS is. Please help. I'm sure I will have an "ooooaaaaah" moment when I read your response. :D

It shorthand for "Another SLI" :rolleyes:

Hey it also gives us more ways to get to Hawaii from Seattle. I heard the Alaska crews treat us well...

King,
You don't wanna touch the -800 flying. It's HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE I tell ya. 6-8 legs a day, minimum crew rest at the overnights, lousy copilots (just fly with me!!). The cockpit is too small, the seats are too hard, the noise is too loud. NOBODY should EVER bid this aircraft......... Seriously, thanks for the great posts, you seem like a class act, here's a DAL guy that is lookin forward to tippin a few back with ya.

AS is the code for Alaska Airlines.

Wasatch, Thanks for the kind words, and I'd love to bend a few back with you and all my new Delta brothers and sisters. A few here have dissed' my attitude,(positive) and thats fine with me. I have a choice each day, and I've never gotten anything by choosing to be po'd. I didn't do too well in the computers's juggling of our list, the worst was 1700 numbers, I was at 1592 hired after me going ahead. Oh well, it happened. There has been so much happening here since we first heard the names Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, I'd be tango uniform if I chose to be po'd. I used to fly with an old Southern Airways Captain when we bid the whole month together. I'd be grumbling about everything, living in a 36 inch circle around myself. He'd say, Hey man, I can't wait to get to Indy! Why Rod?, "Man, they got the best corn in the whole system there", and he'd get a big bag of popcorn and put it on the pedestal, and he was right. We'd eat corn and live the dream! Rod died of a brain tumor at age 57, and I gave his eulogy. It ended like this. "Captain Rod, your flight today is a pattern position to your home of destination. Your logbook is clean, no write ups. Your tail number is 7777. Ship load is a crew of two, no pax. Total enroute time will be short, but your layover will last an eternity. Your copilot will be in the seat with you for the first time, but has been with you before on every flight. Wave Off will be on your left, and you have a lot of grateful people to see you off. (Hand Salute), Good Luck, Captain Rod, have a great flight home!"
Ever since that day, I've known I have a choice. And if you ever taste the corn in Indy, you'll begin to understand.

Hey King sorry about the cooladie comment earlier. Rod used to be a good friend of mine. Great guy. Good luck to ya.

Will we see an AE before the SOC for the future bases of Delta airplanes? And likewise for the NW airplanes? That way we can let Delta guys get first dibs for their airplanes and NW guys get first dibs for their airplanes. I am hoping to get to DTW on the 7ER (transfer from JFK).

I havent posted here in along time, too much negativity...Its NICE to see that most of us have settled down and are looking forward, positively!!

Question...I was 20% before and 20% after the list, so I'm pleased. Oct 98 NWA hire... MSP A320 FO (LOVE the plane, love the trips, hate the commute)...Where can I find what I can hold on the big list?? IOW, what are the junior numbers on each plane at each DAL base?? When SOC comes around, I'd like to know if SLC or LAX will be available to me, since I live in SEA and commute to MSP. Be nice if AS comes into the fold eventually, but until then....

Thanks guys!!

I havent posted here in along time, too much negativity...Its NICE to see that most of us have settled down and are looking forward, positively!!

Question...I was 20% before and 20% after the list, so I'm pleased. Oct 98 NWA hire... MSP A320 FO (LOVE the plane, love the trips, hate the commute)...Where can I find what I can hold on the big list?? IOW, what are the junior numbers on each plane at each DAL base?? When SOC comes around, I'd like to know if SLC or LAX will be available to me, since I live in SEA and commute to MSP. Be nice if AS comes into the fold eventually, but until then....

Thanks guys!!

All the Delta new hires were placed into the 767-300ER out of JFK, and the MD-88 out of Atlanta...and occasionally a new guy would get LAX 73N or SLC 73N or ATL 73N within a bid or two...a couple classes even had ATL 73N from day 1.

Bottom line - if your seniority is 11,350 or better you can hold 737 in any domicile and you can hold 767 in ATL, NYC, and LAX. I am 10,300 and I can hold anything anywhere (FO seat) including ATL 777 and I was on the very edge of holding reserve NYC MD-88 Captain (within a hundred numbers).

So depending on how things shake out...you are essentially my seniority now I believe...so the answer to your question is LAX 767 and 73N are options, as well as SLC 767, 73N and MD-88/90.

Rumor is there will be a big SEA 767ER base...you might get that.

I flew yesterday with an LCA. I was specifically concerned about being able to hold my seat on the 767 in LAX. But his opinion from talking with the CP and others in Lanta is that marketing will need a bigger LAX ER base 20-30% increase for HNL-Pac Rim (DAL just applied yesterday for the routes). Also Airbuses in LAX for Int'l MEX and Central America. 73N will increase for transcon. But he said the biggest impact will be the opening of a 767ER base in SEA. That will move A LOT of commuters from LAX and SLC. Educated speculation ABSOLUTELY! But nice to hear stuff that may at least allow me not to commute, although staying in the 767 could be impossible.

All the Delta new hires were placed into the 767-300ER out of JFK, and the MD-88 out of Atlanta...and occasionally a new guy would get LAX 73N or SLC 73N or ATL 73N within a bid or two...a couple classes even had ATL 73N from day 1.

Bottom line - if your seniority is 11,350 or better you can hold 737 in any domicile and you can hold 767 in ATL, NYC, and LAX. I am 10,300 and I can hold anything anywhere (FO seat) including ATL 777 and I was on the very edge of holding reserve NYC MD-88 Captain (within a hundred numbers).

So depending on how things shake out...you are essentially my seniority now I believe...so the answer to your question is LAX 767 and 73N are options, as well as SLC 767, 73N and MD-88/90.

Rumor is there will be a big SEA 767ER base...you might get that.

Wow that sounds really good. My number is just over 10,000. Interestingly, if I recall, the DAL guy right below me is your JUNIOR MD88 Capt (I am guessing NYC)...so guess that means that finally I can hold a CA seat??!!!! Dont want it, but its a milestone nonetheless...So the 767ER would fly the Pacific routes out of SEA?? Not familiar with all the 767 types...ER, 400, etc and what kind of flying they do (domestic, int'l). Whats the difference between the 767-300ER and -400ER? Quite different payrates...

Thanks again, and really looking forward to downing a few with my 20-30+ ex-Navy Delta bros!!! However for the first time most of them will finally outrank me!!! Guess they buy...

Here's another one:

Someone told me or from somewhere on this forum I got the impression that DAL pilots could bid on ANY opentime that was availiable in the system that was in their category. So, if you are a MD-88 FO in JFK, and there was an open trip in ATL, you could bid it after a certian amount of time. (And I guess, as long as it didn't conflict with your NYC schedule) Is that true or am I mis-remembering? (Yes, I know it's not a word) :D


New K Now

Here's another one:

Someone told me or from somewhere on this forum I got the impression that DAL pilots could bid on ANY opentime that was availiable in the system that was in their category. So, if you are a MD-88 FO in JFK, and there was an open trip in ATL, you could bid it after a certian amount of time. (And I guess, as long as it didn't conflict with your NYC schedule) Is that true or am I mis-remembering? (Yes, I know it's not a word) :D


New K Now

You can pick up time out of base and I do it now and then. There are some limits that make it difficult however. You can only pick up the day prior or same day. If any reserve pilot in base has a request to fly that trip he goes ahead of you. That means that you only can get a out of base trip the day prior and no reserve pilot has asked for it. This often means a lousy trip. If however you are willing to essentially put yourself on reserve you can put qualifiers in the flying request to limit yourself to decent trips and you may get one when someone sicks out. You can also put in a minimum time from notification to report.

Absolutely. Where do your trips go and for how long? And forgive me for asking agian, but if you are a LAX 767-ER pilot does that mean that you cannot fly any domestic trips out of there? I'm slow to grasp the concept. :D

The LAX76ER category flys a mix of Hawaii (HNL, Maui, Kona, Lihue) and international stuff now. Lots of low time 3-day Hawaii with an all-nighter at the end. Right now it's fairly brutal unless you really love all-nighters, working 20 days a month, or are really senior. The international has been starting with deadheads to ATL, JFK, and SLC, fly the trip, deadhead home, since there is little international that originates in LAX at this point. You'll see domestic stuff occasionally but not a mix of international and domestic since you revert to 30 in 7 rules if you throw in one domestic leg. Seems like a category that's in transition at this point. -ER pilots cannot pick up open domestic trips and vice versa.

Wasatch, Thanks for the kind words, and I'd love to bend a few back with you and all my new Delta brothers and sisters. A few here have dissed' my attitude,(positive) and thats fine with me. I have a choice each day, and I've never gotten anything by choosing to be po'd. I didn't do too well in the computers's juggling of our list, the worst was 1700 numbers, I was at 1592 hired after me going ahead. Oh well, it happened. There has been so much happening here since we first heard the names Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, I'd be tango uniform if I chose to be po'd. I used to fly with an old Southern Airways Captain when we bid the whole month together. I'd be grumbling about everything, living in a 36 inch circle around myself. He'd say, Hey man, I can't wait to get to Indy! Why Rod?, "Man, they got the best corn in the whole system there", and he'd get a big bag of popcorn and put it on the pedestal, and he was right. We'd eat corn and live the dream! Rod died of a brain tumor at age 57, and I gave his eulogy. It ended like this. "Captain Rod, your flight today is a pattern position to your home of destination. Your logbook is clean, no write ups. Your tail number is 7777. Ship load is a crew of two, no pax. Total enroute time will be short, but your layover will last an eternity. Your copilot will be in the seat with you for the first time, but has been with you before on every flight. Wave Off will be on your left, and you have a lot of grateful people to see you off. (Hand Salute), Good Luck, Captain Rod, have a great flight home!"
Ever since that day, I've known I have a choice. And if you ever taste the corn in Indy, you'll begin to understand.

You're the best Kingbird!!

Carl

Ok ...I'm lazy and haven't studied it, nor does it really affect me (premerger Delta) what is bid period 5...5 months of trip bidding? No laughs please.:confused:

Bid period 5 is when NWA pilots will be fully operating by the terms of the new joint pilot contract. Bid period 5 will occur 5 bid periods after bid period 1. Bid period 1 will begin at "some point soon" as determined by the committee studying when bid period 1 should happen. Until then NWA pilots still operate under many of the old rules - which is highly advantageous to the new Delta.

And by the way, I'm not kidding. That's why we NWA guys make fun of "bid period 5."

Carl

Bid period 1 will, in Delta speak, be "4 to 6 weeks!!":D

Denny

Bid period 1 will, in Delta speak, be "4 to 6 weeks!!":D

Denny

That's funny.

What we've actually been hearing is around the SOC at the end of 2009. :(

Carl

AS is the code for Alaska Airlines.




OOOOAaaahhhh. See, I told ya. :D

OK. Here's another one:

So, if you are senior, let's say the #1 pilot on a piece of equipment, you can bid a reserve line, right? I guess I asking if reserve and blockholder pilots in the same base have the samd bidding power?

Ok, it's confusing. Let me try another way.

I'm #1 on the 777, but I bid reserve. A trip comes up in open time and I bid it and a full blockholder wants it as well, but of course, he's junior to me. Who gets it?

OOOOAaaahhhh. See, I told ya. :D

OK. Here's another one:

So, if you are senior, let's say the #1 pilot on a piece of equipment, you can bid a reserve line, right? I guess I asking if reserve and blockholder pilots in the same base have the samd bidding power?

Ok, it's confusing. Let me try another way.

I'm #1 on the 777, but I bid reserve. A trip comes up in open time and I bid it and a full blockholder wants it as well, but of course, he's junior to me. Who gets it?

There is a long order of trip coverage. If this is a simple straight pickup for the blockholder he gets the trip. If it were a greenslip or overtime trip the senior pilot would get the trip. In general however when a senior pilot bids reserve its knowing he wont work. They rarely ask for trips. The exception would be rolling thunder and then he would be asking for overtime trips.

Trip coverage, partial list of the first steps.

1. Pilots subject to recovery flying under Section 23 K. 1.
2. Regular pilots who have submitted white slips (in category, in seniority order)
Note: White slips for same-day open time will be awarded by proffer.
Exception: A local council officer who drops a rotation to conduct a monthly council
meeting will be given first priority to white slip open time during that bid period in order
to recover such dropped rotations. (see Section 24 J. 8.)
3. Long call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
4. Short call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
5. Reserve pilots who are on an X-day or long call reserve pilots for whom the award would
interrupt their X-day(s) and who have submitted a yellow slip (in category, within RUO)
6. Out-of-base regular pilots who have submitted white slips (in seniority order)
Note: White slips for same-day open time will be awarded by proffer.
7. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots (by base, within RUO)
8. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots (by base, within RUO)
9. Long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their regular line
day(s)-off (in category, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
10. Short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their regular line
day(s)-off (in category, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
11. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their
regular line day(s)-off (by base, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
12. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their
regular line day(s)-off (by base, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
13. Long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict with their
regular line rotation(s) (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)

OOOOAaaahhhh. See, I told ya. :D

OK. Here's another one:

So, if you are senior, let's say the #1 pilot on a piece of equipment, you can bid a reserve line, right? I guess I asking if reserve and blockholder pilots in the same base have the samd bidding power?

Ok, it's confusing. Let me try another way.

I'm #1 on the 777, but I bid reserve. A trip comes up in open time and I bid it and a full blockholder wants it as well, but of course, he's junior to me. Who gets it?

It depends. If the line holder requests straight pay (called a White Slip) then he gets the trip. If you are both requesting overtime (called a Green Slip), then you get it.

It depends. If the line holder requests straight pay (called a White Slip) then he gets the trip. If you are both requesting overtime (called a Green Slip), then you get it.

That's right...

In other words, when you are on reserve, you can't pick up trips in open time unless the company decides you get the trip based on your RAW value (a formula Delta uses to keep reserve pilots about even in the amount of time they have flown...you can put in a "low yellow" to change your RAW value to give yourself a better chance of flying. You can also put in reserve trip preferences, but it is still scheduling's call whether you fly or not.

ANY line holder who puts in a white slip gets it before you do...even if you are senior...unless you both have in a green slip...(overtime request at double pay) then you get it since you are senior...like Alfaromeo said.

My opinion is that reserve pretty much sucks unless we are understaffed and you can get a lot of greenslips.

Oh I love reserve when we are over staffed. I flew two legs on reserve in Sept. (One two day trip!)

Oh I love reserve when we are over staffed. I flew two legs on reserve in Sept. (One two day trip!)


Wait a minute!! You know its not possible for DAL to be overstaffed ;) Only the NWA side can be overstaffed ;) j/k

How does DAL bid for aircraft position? Can we leave a preference in the computer for a base change and expect it whenever we can hold it, or do you have to wait for the company to open up a "vacancy bid" like a UPS kind of deal?

BTW. great idea for a thread. I haven't seen much worth while on here in the last few months, but maybe the tide is changing.

How does DAL bid for aircraft position? Can we leave a preference in the computer for a base change and expect it whenever we can hold it, or do you have to wait for the company to open up a "vacancy bid" like a UPS kind of deal?

BTW. great idea for a thread. I haven't seen much worth while on here in the last few months, but maybe the tide is changing.

We usually have about 4 advance entitlements (AE) or vacancy bids a year. You usually have 10 days from the time the AE comes out until it closes. The company will put out what positions are to be filled/surplused (displaced) and then we find out whether or not they back filled the positions vacated as the published positions were filled. Obviously there's much more movement if all categories are correctly staffed and all positions filled as people move up. IE. Bill the 767 Capt and is awarded 777, Ted gets Bill's 767 Capt slot, and down the line.

The are three preferences you keep current in the computer or update when the AE comes out. Advance entitlement (what you want), voluntary displacement (what you'll take if someone junior to you in your category is going to be displaced), and mandatory displacement (what you want if your position disappears). The displacements come with a company move, I believe.?

The are three preferences you keep current in the computer or update when the AE comes out. Advance entitlement (what you want), voluntary displacement (what you'll take if someone junior to you in your category is going to be displaced), and mandatory displacement (what you want if your position disappears). The displacements come with a company move, I believe.?

We have the same system, but it's all on one card and it just stays in the computer and you can change it any time. But, it's that way because we have an AE once every month. Some are big, some are small. Some have lots of advancements, some have lots of displacements.

This is one of those "best practices" items for another thread, but I wonder if our AE program will be looked at in in the future by the company.

Anyway, tell me more about the company paid move if you could. How close do you have to get to the base? How long is it good for, ie is it a use or lose after a certain time?

Great thread!!

Ferd

Ferd,

I haven't seen the JCBA on this but our last contract says you have to move to within 125 miles of base and establish your permanant residence. If your current residence is already within that distance, no go. Your new residence also has to be 50 statute miles closer to base than your former residence. If you move under these terms (and a couple of others, these are the major ones) you are committed to staying there (at the base) for at least 24 months or you have to reimbuse moving expenses. The move is good for 24 months from date of conversion to new category.

To the best of my knowledge the above is correct. There are, of course, many little caveats but these are the major points.

Denny

Denny,

Thanks! Not too bad a deal and the 24 month commitment is reasonable for sure. I think we're going to sit tight in DFW for a year to see the smoke clear a bit on what to do. My wife loves MSP, but she has only seen it during the summer.

Ferd

Ferd,

I tried to PM you. Hope it came thru.

Denny

That's right...

In other words, when you are on reserve, you can't pick up trips in open time unless the company decides you get the trip based on your RAW value (a formula Delta uses to keep reserve pilots about even in the amount of time they have flown...you can put in a "low yellow" to change your RAW value to give yourself a better chance of flying. You can also put in reserve trip preferences, but it is still scheduling's call whether you fly or not.

ANY line holder who puts in a white slip gets it before you do...even if you are senior...unless you both have in a green slip...(overtime request at double pay) then you get it since you are senior...like Alfaromeo said.

My opinion is that reserve pretty much sucks unless we are understaffed and you can get a lot of greenslips.

Wow!! Are you guys kidding me? I am sure they take a whole day out of indoc to explain this stuff to you. Did they have a manual to go along with the presentation?

If anyone would listen to me, I would suggest that sometime starting in the near future they send us the CD of a presentation to explain all the green, yellow, white, bid period 1-5, SOC, DCC, & A,B,C,D-Z's. :)

I know if I don't get a head start, I'll wind up in Minot for 8 weeks straight. No big words either. You know us DC-9 guys are kind of slow. :D

Thanks for responding.

New K Now

NewK,

Basically, if you are on reserve, there is no seniority. If your RAW score is the lowest within days of availability, then you will more than likely get the trip.

A whiteslip is used by a regular line pilot to pick up time at straight pay. If you are short for the month, this is the best way to pick up a trip from open time.

A yellowslip is used by a reserve pilot to indicate that he/she wants to fly. Essentially it lowers your RAW score by 15 points. If your RAW score is more than 15 points above the next guy in your days of availability, he will still more than likely get the trip. (This is what I meant by "no seniorty")

A greenslip is used by both regular and reserve to indicate you are willing to do overtime flying for double pay.

I'm tired of typing and it's way past my bedtime!!:D But first I need to sit on my deck and have cigar and glass of scotch..........even though it is 35 degrees out!!!:D

Denny

NewK,

Basically, if you are on reserve, there is no seniority. If your RAW score is the lowest within days of availability, then you will more than likely get the trip.

A whiteslip is used by a regular line pilot to pick up time at straight pay. If you are short for the month, this is the best way to pick up a trip from open time.

A yellowslip is used by a reserve pilot to indicate that he/she wants to fly. Essentially it lowers your RAW score by 15 points. If your RAW score is more than 15 points above the next guy in your days of availability, he will still more than likely get the trip. (This is what I meant by "no seniorty")

A greenslip is used by both regular and reserve to indicate you are willing to do overtime flying for double pay.

I'm tired of typing and it's way past my bedtime!!:D But first I need to sit on my deck and have cigar and glass of scotch..........even though it is 35 degrees out!!!:D

Denny

Thanks Denny,

You are making me want go pour a bit of conac and do the same thing. Are you serious about the raw score thing? Once again, wow. So, tell me, if a reserve pilot can get his raw score up above 30 do you think he can get into a good med school? :D

Our system was easier, which is that we were pretty much at the mercy of the scheduler. Not really, but close.

Naw he couldn't get into med school but law school is a shoo-in!!:D

Unfortunately I am serious about the raw thing!! And that's what it is raw!! It came into being so that open time could be more evenly divided throughout the month between reserve line holders.

Under the old system a senior reserve guy could request to fly and could fill up for the month in the first half or so. If the more junior reserve guy had days off scheduled in the second half of the month, the company was now short. This allows them to more evenly assign trips thru the month to reserve guys. Seniority is there but only under certain conditions.

The company's wet dream is to fly all reserve guy to 69:59 (70 hr guarantee) and then have the month end.

What's really a pain in the arse is that international category reserve guys get to sit 24 hr short call while domestic guy sit 12 hr. You both get 1 day credit towards your 6 day maximum short calls per month!

Denny

Naw he couldn't get into med school but law school is a shoo-in!!:D

Unfortunately I am serious about the raw thing!! And that's what it is raw!! It came into being so that open time could be more evenly divided throughout the month between reserve line holders.

Under the old system a senior reserve guy could request to fly and could fill up for the month in the first half or so. If the more junior reserve guy had days off scheduled in the second half of the month, the company was now short. This allows them to more evenly assign trips thru the month to reserve guys. Seniority is there but only under certain conditions.

The company's wet dream is to fly all reserve guy to 69:59 (70 hr guarantee) and then have the month end.

What's really a pain in the arse is that international category reserve guys get to sit 24 hr short call while domestic guy sit 12 hr. You both get 1 day credit towards your 6 day maximum short calls per month!

Denny

Wait. Are you saying your short call is 12 hours?

Ok. I have put the cognac down and am re-reading. Let me rephrase, because I can't believe it. What is your short call?

New K Now

Short call lasts for 12 hours. This is because of the Whitlow rule. Your rest time clock starts anytime you are required to answer the phone under Whitlow. You must always be able to look back and see 8 hours rest in the previous 24. This means that keeping you on short call beyond 12 hours serves no purpose for the company since you don't have time to actually do any flying. Whitlow does not apply to international flying which is why short call is 24 hours long there.
If you are speaking of response time it is not defined as a hard number. If you are on short call you are expected to be promptly available. This is loosely defined as being able to report within 2 hours under normal conditions. If you are 2 hours driving time away and a traffic jam causes you to take 3 hours then that is fine.
Long call is 12 hours from the company initial attempt to contact you. You do not actually have to respond to that contact attempt for up to 9 hours. If you wait for 9 hours however you now have 3 hours left to get to work.
If you live in a co domicle base such as LAX or NYC the response time is a bit different on short call. You are only required to be within 2 hours of one of the airports served. This means that if you are LA based you can live in SD if your aircraft serves Orange County Airport as long as you can get there in 2 hours. You are allowed longer if they call you for a LAX trip. The same thing applies in NYC. If you live in PA and can make EWR in 2 hours you can sit short call at home. If they call you for a JFK trip you get there when you can.
Just don't do like one pilot. He was called for a short notice EWR trip. He told the scheduler that he could get to JFK in 2 hours but not EWR because of where he lived. Scheduler passed him up and used someone else. The next week same scheduler calls him again for a JFK short notice trip. He says sorry, I can get to EWR in 2 hours but can't make JFK because of where I live. That will get you the infamous CPR on your schedule. (Chief Pilot Review)

Ferd,

I haven't seen the JCBA on this but our last contract says you have to move to within 125 miles of base and establish your permanant residence. If your current residence is already within that distance, no go. Your new residence also has to be 50 statute miles closer to base than your former residence. If you move under these terms (and a couple of others, these are the major ones) you are committed to staying there (at the base) for at least 24 months or you have to reimbuse moving expenses. The move is good for 24 months from date of conversion to new category.

Denny
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/06/vanogan.jpg

Counselor,

Does parking this in the crew lot qualify? Any NWA'ers know if they have clean showers in the crew lounge? Commuting to a DC9 FO gig means I need to cut expenses. When the lease is up, I'm thinking a van in the Detroit Airport parking lot might just be the thing. The other alternative for cheap home away from home living on reserve is shacking up with an chubby Flight Attendant. Either way, those ALPA sun shades will come in handy.

Sincerely,
Matt Foley, ATL 767 FO

Buck,

Not sure if that qualifies or not!:D I did hear that, years ago at LAX, there was a guy that was living in his RV in the airport parking lot. (Probably got kicked out by his now ex-wife!!) But he got busted and told to move.

Denny

For the (former) NWA guys, you should be aware that DAL scrutinizes moving expense claims pretty closely.

A couple of years ago I heard (from a very reliable source) that a few DAL pilots were terminated for moving expense fraud.

When I was a new hire I was told something like "All you have to do is show up for work on time and try." Similarly, I was told "Delta has zero tolerance for fraud or lying".

For the (former) NWA guys, you should be aware that DAL scrutinizes moving expense claims pretty closely.

A couple of years ago I heard (from a very reliable source) that a few DAL pilots were terminated for moving expense fraud.

When I was a new hire I was told something like "All you have to do is show up for work on time and try." Similarly, I was told "Delta has zero tolerance for fraud or lying".


Quite true. This is not a system I would try to beat.

There is a shower at DTW's crew restroom.

Commuting to a DC9 FO gig means I need to cut expenses. When the lease is up, I'm thinking a van in the Detroit Airport parking lot might just be the thing.

Bar,

No chance of DC-9 FO for you if they keep the 767's in ATL, right? Because, I'd hate to see that thing in DTW. :D


New K Now

Thanks for clarifying that. I guess it is pretty much like ours, it's just nice to have the "AE" every month. I've never asked any DAL buddies about it specifically, but I haven't really heard any complaints about it either, so it muct work OK.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/06/vanogan.jpg

Counselor,

Does parking this in the crew lot qualify? Any NWA'ers know if they have clean showers in the crew lounge? Commuting to a DC9 FO gig means I need to cut expenses. When the lease is up, I'm thinking a van in the Detroit Airport parking lot might just be the thing. The other alternative for cheap home away from home living on reserve is shacking up with an chubby Flight Attendant. Either way, those ALPA sun shades will come in handy.

Sincerely,
Matt Foley, ATL 767 FO

I think the bigger question here is how many commuters can you rent space to in this thing. It could be the new crashpad craze. You know somebody out there would be interested!

Hehe, at my last outfit, we had a guy live in one of those out in the parking lot. No solar panels, though, he pirated electricity from the street light.

Nu

Hehe, at my last outfit, we had a guy live in one of those out in the parking lot. No solar panels, though, he pirated electricity from the street light.

Nu

Was that at Big Sky airlines in Boston?

Was that at Big Sky airlines in Boston?

Hehe, no, Piedmont. Apparently no shower in the RV either :eek:...

Nu

Anyone know about how far you have to be up the list in a particular category you have to be in order to be a full blockholder?

Also, do you have partial reserve lines, or is it all or nothing? As in, if your line can't be built to the minimum gurantee, do they drop trips that you could have held back into open time, or do you keep those trips on your line?

Thanks in advance. :)

The number of line holders is determined each month. Prior to bidding they publish an estimated number of line holders and an estimated average line value. Don't know the answer to the second question.

Anyone know about how far you have to be up the list in a particular category you have to be in order to be a full blockholder?

Also, do you have partial reserve lines, or is it all or nothing? As in, if your line can't be built to the minimum gurantee, do they drop trips that you could have held back into open time, or do you keep those trips on your line?

Thanks in advance. :)


Reserves tend to be about 10-15% of each category. There are no partial reserve lines. If a regular line cannot be built for you that meets the minimum threshold, you get a reserve line. You also have the option of bidding reserve if any of your parameters can't be satisfied.(e.g. Award trips if layovers in Kiev, otherwise award reserve line, or Award trips not flying December 25th, otherwise award reserve line)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/06/vanogan.jpg

Counselor,

Does parking this in the crew lot qualify? Any NWA'ers know if they have clean showers in the crew lounge? Commuting to a DC9 FO gig means I need to cut expenses. When the lease is up, I'm thinking a van in the Detroit Airport parking lot might just be the thing. The other alternative for cheap home away from home living on reserve is shacking up with an chubby Flight Attendant. Either way, those ALPA sun shades will come in handy.

Sincerely,
Matt Foley, ATL 767 FO

I've only got one thing to say to you Mr. Foley:

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO AMOUNT...TO JACK SQUAT!!!

Carl

If only I were the Greenskeeper at Bushwood.:rolleyes:

If only I were the Greenskeeper at Bushwood.:rolleyes:


Then you wouldn't have to live in a van down by the river, AND you could grow your own grass;) :D

....AND you could grow your own grass;) :D

It's a mix of Kentucky blue grass and California sensimillia. You can play 18 holes and then smoke the bejesus out of it.

Maybe this was answered before but how many days off per month/bid period do get at DAL with a reserve line? Former NWA is 11 off in a 30 day period. Thanks.

Bid period 5 is when NWA pilots will be fully operating by the terms of the new joint pilot contract. Bid period 5 will occur 5 bid periods after bid period 1. Bid period 1 will begin at "some point soon" as determined by the committee studying when bid period 1 should happen. Until then NWA pilots still operate under many of the old rules - which is highly advantageous to the new Delta.

And by the way, I'm not kidding. That's why we NWA guys make fun of "bid period 5."

Carl

...And they had to choose 5 because three (3) was already taken by the book of armaments to operate the Holy Hand Grenade. :D

Maybe this was answered before but how many days off per month/bid period do get at DAL with a reserve line? Former NWA is 11 off in a 30 day period. Thanks.

You get 12 days off in a 30 day month and 13 days off in a 31 day month. The lines however are initially built to 11 and 12 days off and then after all bids have closed crew scheduling adds the 12 or 13 day where it suits them.

If only I were the Greenskeeper at Bushwood.:rolleyes:

You wouldn't fire the assistant...would you?

Carl

It's a mix of Kentucky blue grass and California sensimillia. You can play 18 holes and then smoke the bejesus out of it.

I LOVE IT!!!!!:D:D

You get 12 days off in a 30 day month and 13 days off in a 31 day month. The lines however are initially built to 11 and 12 days off and then after all bids have closed crew scheduling adds the 12 or 13 day where it suits them.

Isn't the DL Reserve Guarantee only 70 hours? It's 75 in the old NW contract.

Hey. I just thought of something really important.

Being an employee of Northwest, the ONLY major airline that does not have a sponsorship with a sports team, do you guys (Old Delta) get tickets to the Mets or the Braves games or the Jazz games in Utah?

It will really be good to see the "company" logo on something other than a garbage bag behind the backstop of one of the cheapest teams in MLB. (Minneapolis Metrodome)

I'm just thinking that they might throw some spare tickets to the "poor" pilots on some of their layovers and I know NWA would never have done anything like that. If so, in my mind, this merger is the greatest. :D

Hey. I just thought of something really important.

Being an employee of Northwest, the ONLY major airline that does not have a sponsorship with a sports team, do you guys (Old Delta) get tickets to the Mets or the Braves games or the Jazz games in Utah?

. :D


Sure you do!...

And FedEX gives us tickets to the Redskins games and all the F1 races...it's really great. Too bad we lose our "dicount" shipping the day we retire:mad:

New,

The former "Delta Center" in SLC is now called the "Energy Solutions Arena".

DAL was in dire financial straits when the previous contract ended and did not participate in the naming rights auction process.

However, periodically there are seats available through the SLC Chief Pilot's office at reduced rates for Jazz games.

Also, sometimes the Delta Employees Credit Union in SLC had reduced rate ski tickets for sale at local areas. I don't know if they still have them.

I don't know if this is true this year, but in the past anyway your DAL ID card will get you a significantly reduced price on a ski ticket at Deer Valley.

We do get reduced rate tickets to the Atlanta Symphony and the High Museum of Art, if you're into that kind of thing.

These guys are interested in the manly games of football, baseball, hockey, skiing and apparently, passing certain organic molecules across gas-permiable membranes of the aveolae.(BTW, Capn, it's SINsemilla, meaning "seedless"). Oh and, Justdoin', with interests like symphony and museums I suspect you perhaps live in Virginia "High"lands?...Midtown?.....hmmmm......(just kidding)(they might be interested in that "High" Museum of Art ...fur sure, dude..!)

Oh and, Justdoin', with interests like symphony and museums I suspect you perhaps live in Virginia "High"lands?...Midtown?.....hmmmm......(just kidding

No, no, I said if YOU'RE interested, not that I'm interested. I just heard some male FAs talking about it, and thought that there were some yankees who might like that kind of stuff.

Me?, I'm more into this kind of thing...:cool:

Panhandle celebrates Chumuckla Redneck Christmas Festival | Gainesville.com | The Gainesville Sun | Gainesville, FL (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20081214/NEWS/812140297/1034?Title=Panhandle_celebrates_Chumuckla_Redneck_ Christmas_Festival)

Hey NWA guys.

Today is the first day that you can sign up for the DPMA thing. Go to the website the union sent us. It takes like 2 minuets and is easy. From what I understand, it is HIGHLY recommended.

Hey NWA guys.

Today is the first day that you can sign up for the DPMA thing. Go to the website the union sent us. It takes like 2 minuets and is easy. From what I understand, it is HIGHLY recommended.

I've never had to use DPMA (and hopefully never will) but from flying with guys who have, I have never heard one who did not speak of DPMA in anything but very glowing terms.

No, no, I said if YOU'RE interested, not that I'm interested. I just heard some male FAs talking about it, and thought that there were some yankees who might like that kind of stuff.

Me?, I'm more into this kind of thing...:cool:

Panhandle celebrates Chumuckla Redneck Christmas Festival | Gainesville.com | The Gainesville Sun | Gainesville, FL (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20081214/NEWS/812140297/1034?Title=Panhandle_celebrates_Chumuckla_Redneck_ Christmas_Festival)

LMAO!:D I wonder if it's the same Redneck fishing as in my parts. Our reel is a Remington.;)

LMAO!:D I wonder if it's the same Redneck fishing as in my parts. Our reel is a Remington.;)Or a stick of dynomite!

DPAMA is not about helping yourself. It is about taking a very small part of your check and helping your fellow pilots. It is a great resource to have. At some point everyone will have a medical issue. This is a great filler so that the family does not suffer.

[QUOTE=acl65pilot;519697]DPAMA is not about helping yourself.


The heck it isn`t! Of course it`s about helping yourself. That`s what an insurance policy is all about. You hope that you don`t need it, but be glad that it`s there for you. This isn`t an ALPA thing, it`s a Delta pilot thing, run by Delta pilots for Delta pilots. And oh yeah...unfortunately for me, I had to use it and was glad that I paid in all those funds for my entire career...

Do "new" DAL guys have a separate DPMA fund of their own that does not draw on the established fund?

No it is all one fund.
There is a fear that all of the LTD NWA guys will deplete the fund. I guess we will find out.

No it is all one fund.
There is a fear that all of the LTD NWA guys will deplete the fund. I guess we will find out.

That is what I was afraid of.

That is what I was afraid of.

How many LTS do you think the old NWA have? Yep we're all up here in the Northern old folks home watching re-runs of Matlock.

I've never had to use DPMA (and hopefully never will) but from flying with guys who have, I have never heard one who did not speak of DPMA in anything but very glowing terms.

No doubt. It's da' shiz'!!!!!:D

In all seriousness, it's very helpful in time of need.

My question, and I need to call and find out is, can you put a claim in on a preexisting leave or does it have to be one that you had after you enrolled. If it is the later, than many of those guys do not qualify!

Or a stick of dynomite!

That works too!!:D

My question, and I need to call and find out is, can you put a claim in on a preexisting leave or does it have to be one that you had after you enrolled. If it is the later, than many of those guys do not qualify!

Heyas ACL,

If you are ex-NWA and were out on LTS and have not returned since DCC, you remain under the old NWA disability program. The only thing the DPMA fund will need to cover are those that go LTS after DCC.

Nu

Read the Merger update it has how many LTS etc are currently on the list. I think it was 274 for both parties.

Heyas ACL,

If you are ex-NWA and were out on LTS and have not returned since DCC, you remain under the old NWA disability program. The only thing the DPMA fund will need to cover are those that go LTS after DCC.

Nu


That is what I assumed. But thanks for clarifying it.

Gentlemen,

I have a question for the premerger delta guys. I'm a NWA pilot on bypass and due back on property by Jan 2013. My new number is around 10980 and would retire at around 220. I graduated with my MD from LSU medical school and am currently doing an orthopaedic surgery residency, but want to come back and fly at Delta. I am planning to switch to an ER residency, which allows a tremendous amount of flexibility vs. ortho.

I am wondering, what is the flexibility of your schedules? Is it possible to fly only 10 days a month? I don't care about a big a cut in pay: just if it's possible to only fly 10-12 days a month. ER allows plenty of flexibility(it's shift work with the avg # of shifts/month being 10-12) vs ortho which is basically a full time gig.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide

I would say yes, it is possible. Might be difficult to only get 10 days with that seniority number but in four years it is quite possible. ER or 330 in NYC could possibly do it. Plus you could drop a trip or two.
IMHO

Gentlemen,

I have a question for the premerger delta guys. I'm a NWA pilot on bypass and due back on property by Jan 2013. My new number is around 10980 and would retire at around 220. I graduated with my MD from LSU medical school and am currently doing an orthopaedic surgery residency, but want to come back and fly at Delta. I am planning to switch to an ER residency, which allows a tremendous amount of flexibility vs. ortho.

I am wondering, what is the flexibility of your schedules? Is it possible to fly only 10 days a month? I don't care about a big a cut in pay: just if it's possible to only fly 10-12 days a month. ER allows plenty of flexibility(it's shift work with the avg # of shifts/month being 10-12) vs ortho which is basically a full time gig.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide

Kinda sounds like you are patting yourself on the back while asking the question. Did we need to know where you went to school or why you need the time off?

I would say yes, it is possible. Might be difficult to only get 10 days with that seniority number but in four years it is quite possible. ER or 330 in NYC could possibly do it. Plus you could drop a trip or two.
IMHO


ACL,

You caan just drop trips that take you below your minimum?

Also, how many 737-700's are supposed to be delivered?

New K Now

Kinda sounds like you are patting yourself on the back while asking the question. Did we need to know where you went to school or why you need the time off?

I'll pat him on the back. That's pretty damn impressive. I just surf, drink, and fart on my days off (and some days on). Keep in mind the schedule will build your line to around the ALV and if it can't it gives you a reserve line. You can only drop trips on days where there is adequate reserve coverage, otherwise it goes into the pot to see if someone will pick it up. You would want to bid into a category that is well staffed so you have more flexibilty.

Kinda sounds like you are patting yourself on the back while asking the question. Did we need to know where you went to school or why you need the time off?

Heyas Capt'n,

Give the guy a break. I'd still be in school myself had the company not called and MADE me come back (no deferral option...come back or quit). I had a full ride AND a 30k/yr stipend, too.

Dunno what the trip drop options are like under the DAL PWA. I'd probably try to bid the AC that had the best variety of short trips so I could play mix/match/drop with the open board as much as possible. I would also play the SIL/SLIP/PML game as much as I could get away with.

Residency is no joke. Hope this cat gets enough sleep.

Nu

You caan just drop trips that take you below your minimum?

Also, how many 737-700's are supposed to be delivered?



1. You can drop trips as long as there is positive reserve coverage (with some "other" rules around holidays). There is no minimum flying requirement, but if you voluntarily drop trips there is no guarantee replacement for that time. If there's not positive reserve coverage you can place the trip on the swapboard. If it's a decent trip, it'll be gone quickly. Deadhead days, all nighters, 5 hour sits, and certain "exotic" destinations don't get picked up quickly, if it all.

2. We have 4 700's on the property now, with 6 more coming next year. Delivery dates are firmed up 15-18 months out. Delta uses it for specialty routes (Manaus, Hayden, etc.), so it will not become a large fleet.

Hope this helps.

Gentlemen,

I have a question for the premerger delta guys. I'm a NWA pilot on bypass and due back on property by Jan 2013. My new number is around 10980 and would retire at around 220. I graduated with my MD from LSU medical school and am currently doing an orthopaedic surgery residency, but want to come back and fly at Delta. I am planning to switch to an ER residency, which allows a tremendous amount of flexibility vs. ortho.

I am wondering, what is the flexibility of your schedules? Is it possible to fly only 10 days a month? I don't care about a big a cut in pay: just if it's possible to only fly 10-12 days a month. ER allows plenty of flexibility(it's shift work with the avg # of shifts/month being 10-12) vs ortho which is basically a full time gig.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide

I can't provide you with any help, but good on ya...great back up and I wish I had something that solid to fall back on. Stay away as long as possible.:)

Hey MD......

You are way too smart to be an airline pilot. Congrats on the graduation!

Can't help you with the question, I'm getting that Delta rosetta stone program too.

Ferd

Thanks guys for the info. I have some tough decisions to make in the next couple of months of ER vs. Ortho (if ortho, the flying gig is up....if ER, I'll be able to do both.) The reason I included my stats was to provide background into the reason for my line of questioning. The reason I included LSU was because it's LSU.....season sucked this year but still heck of a team. If it seemed like self promotion, it wasn't intended that way. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can before I make a firm decision.

My wife says it's waaay cooler to be an airline pilot: I absolutely agree.

NuGuy, I am not getting much sleep....these 30 hour shifts are kicking my butt.

Hey ACL (Or, anyone else),

What's really going on? I mean I was really planning on getting bumped out of DTW as a -9 CA and possibly having to go to MSP or NYC. Now with this latest APA, they recalled over 25 DC-9 captains. Not that I am complaining, but the previous flying "memos" that they put out said "no movement on the DC-9" & "Hey, we are fat on DC-9 captains."

So rather that waiting for the next few days for their explanation, maybe someone who is really in the know can tell us what to expect. :rolleyes:

Word is that they are not moving bases until after SOC. That means that for the interim they will be flying a lot of flights through the sister bases.
All this is for the near term plan. Long term (6-12 months plus) gets a little complicated, (IMHO)

Heyas Capt'n,

Give the guy a break. I'd still be in school myself had the company not called and MADE me come back (no deferral option...come back or quit). I had a full ride AND a 30k/yr stipend, too.

Agreed, it is am impressive task accomplished. Truth be told, he is probably too smart and hardworking to be a pilot. It just seems humility is not part of the formula. I guess no one has ever accused pilots of being humble. Either way, I'll admit I'm jealous, I'd love to have a successful practice to fall back on. A doctor and pilot has to be the perfect panty dropper if I've heard of one.

MD,

Congratulations. That's a huge achievement, and something to be damn proud of.

Definitely a tough career decision, but nice to have the options you do.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.

Hey ACL (Or, anyone else),

What's really going on? I mean I was really planning on getting bumped out of DTW as a -9 CA and possibly having to go to MSP or NYC. Now with this latest APA, they recalled over 25 DC-9 captains. Not that I am complaining, but the previous flying "memos" that they put out said "no movement on the DC-9" & "Hey, we are fat on DC-9 captains."

So rather that waiting for the next few days for their explanation, maybe someone who is really in the know can tell us what to expect. :rolleyes:

They also have to staff for the new trip rigs that they (should be, but) aren't using...

Agreed, it is am impressive task accomplished. Truth be told, he is probably too smart and hardworking to be a pilot. It just seems humility is not part of the formula. I guess no one has ever accused pilots of being humble. Either way, I'll admit I'm jealous, I'd love to have a successful practice to fall back on. A doctor and pilot has to be the perfect panty dropper if I've heard of one.

Something like "hi, I'm Captain Von Longrodhugendong, ... MD. Allll right!":D

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/quiz/532_1208447105134_184_389.jpg

Something like "hi, I'm Captain Von Longrodhugendong, ... MD. Allll right!":D

http://images1.fanpop.com/images/quiz/532_1208447105134_184_389.jpg

LMAO NICE!!! :D

HAHA, nice one DEEZ.

My wife says it's waaay cooler to be an airline pilot:
Umm....I need her to talk to my wife ASAP. Thanks!

They also have to staff for the new trip rigs that they (should be, but) aren't using...

Hey Nosmo, this is pulled off another thread:

I talked with one of the transition group reps about the Duty Rigs. He was in the room when Section 12 was negotiated, as was your CA chairman that put this piece out. The guy that was in the room told me that everybody, including Ken Watts, acknowledged the intent of placing certain changes into bid period 5, including the duty rigs. It was his view that the rigs argument put forward by Watts was a grab for more than was negotiated by ALPA. The former NWA negotiating team and DAL's team met with management on the rigs issue just a couple of weeks back. Surprise, surprise, the record did not reflect your CA chair's point of view.

Your jabs accomplish nothing, except to drive a wedge between the former NWA pilot group and the pre-merger DAL pilot group; and nothing good can come of that.

Food for thought.

PG

..........

Something like "hi, I'm Captain Von Longrodhugendong, ... MD. Or just call me "Smiling Bob!"

Does anyone know if our (DAL and NWA) dispatchers and schedulers have been integrated? I have had some strange dealings with them in the past few weeks. (ie. getting non-revs and jumpseaters on) :rolleyes:

No integration at this time with the dispatchers. They are going to move one fleet at a time to Atlanta and close the dispatch center in MSP. I believe the first fleet that will be moved is the 747.

No integration at this time with the dispatchers. They are going to move one fleet at a time to Atlanta and close the dispatch center in MSP. I believe the first fleet that will be moved is the 747.


Thanks Sailing,

Do you know if the schedulers have integrated?

Does anyone know if our (DAL and NWA) dispatchers and schedulers have been integrated? I have had some strange dealings with them in the past few weeks. (ie. getting non-revs and jumpseaters on) :rolleyes:

They have a t/a. The vote on the t/a ends on the 30dec. Should know by that evening if it passed. It has to pass by both groups or they start over. The Seniority list would go to arbitration. Only rumor I have heard is they want the Nwa dispatchers down in ATL by the fall of '09...We'll see if that happens.

No integration at this time with the dispatchers. They are going to move one fleet at a time to Atlanta and close the dispatch center in MSP. I believe the first fleet that will be moved is the 747.

Fleet? AFAIK the dispatchers bid which desks they want to work based on seniority. After the concessions in Chapter 11, we started seeing some new names on the international releases. Found out it was because they changed their contract so that domestic and international paid the same, so the senior ones went back to domestic. Not sure how that breaks down into "fleets."

Sometimes it gets kind of fun when a dispatcher "new" to international gives you a briefing on your route between Tokyo and Bangkok and says that the weather in Miami looks good, not realizing that it's Manila...

I hope they get it together. Any word on when the aircraft operating weight will start to include the jumpseat, as in no more weight restrictions to bump off jumpseaters?

I hope they get it together. Any word on when the aircraft operating weight will start to include the jumpseat, as in no more weight restrictions to bump off jumpseaters?


Done...can't be kicked off DAL/NWA jets

Done...can't be kicked off DAL/NWA jets

Great!! I hate it when I miss the memo. And that is for all pilots, right?

Done...can't be kicked off DAL/NWA jets

I jumpseated on NWA on 26Dec MSP-MEM DC-9, weight restricted.

Captain says his preliminary load advice no longer restricts XCM. Gate agent calls load control. Load control says they haven't added XCM to operating weight yet and that NWA load control and gate agents are still using the OLD system... i.e. an XCM can be booted off a weight restricted flight.

Fortunately the load fell apart and I got a seat in the back.

Great!! I hate it when I miss the memo. And that is for all pilots, right?

It's official policy as of right now. The FIF on the subject says if any agent gives you grief, call dispatch. If dispatch gives you grief, call a Chief Pilot and he will ensure you get on. This new policy only applies to NWA and DAL pilots. All other pilots (including regional partners) can still be bumped from an NWA jumpseat due to weight.

Carl

Thanks, guess I missed that FIF. Headed back to work today so I'll read it tomorrow.:D

Great!! I hate it when I miss the memo. And that is for all pilots, right?


This was going around the DAL boards last week and to not be "kick-offable" someone said you needed to have a JS reservation. Then someone else said you cannot be kicked off the actual cockpit JS but a flow through can still be kicked off.
I think if you can claim ownership to the cockpit JS you are safe. The problem comes if you walk up to the gate and with your dashing aviator charm kindly inquire "Is the JS available?", gate agent says "As a matter of fact it is available," with a slight wink, but in the meantime somone else reserves it via the phone - you are now at risk, at which time the gate agent who mere seconds ago was giving you a sly come-hither wink now says "Beat it deadbeat, you are being cargo optimized."

Bottom line - Have a JS reservation if you don't want to be kicked off the flight.

:) Scoop

It's official policy as of right now. The FIF on the subject says if any agent gives you grief, call dispatch. If dispatch gives you grief,
Carl

Dispatch has the FIF...no grief required...

FWIW, our new NWA seniority numbers are out. People in my range ('95) moved up 110+ numbers.

Why they even posted it, I don't know. Maybe so we could wish a look to see where we would be if wew were 110+ slots up on the combined NWA/DAL list.

For old DAL guys, this means that from July 2008 to December 2009, a little over 110 NWA pilots retried.

For me, it means I can say I broke into the 2000's--before I go into the 6000's. Here's to trying to stick around long enough to get back into the 2000's. :D

NewK,

I just looked at the January SL on the deltanet and it's the same arbitrated list that was released in Dec.

Denny

NewK,

I just looked at the January SL on the deltanet and it's the same arbitrated list that was released in Dec.

Denny

So, the company (Delta) is posting a seniority list with the arbitrated numbers along with the new NWA pilots on it? Because NWA is still going about it as if it were business as usual. The updated list they posted has only NWA pilots on it with their new "NWA" seniority numbers....

On the Pilot Resources and Scheduling page, which you probably can't see yet, the company updates and posts the seniority list electronically every month. Since the arbitrated list is now "The List" thats what is posted. Who knows when it will really be updated now?!

I cannot find an updated list of FD pilots, but I can look up my seniority number and it changed by a whopping 3 numbers!!! WooHoo!!!:D That is more than it's changed in the last 3 or 4 months (when it stayed the same)!!!:D

It's my understanding the Company is keeping separate lists at least until SOC for any position bidding (hows that for PC!) that occurs prior to SOC and any other reason they might need them.

Denny

For me, it means I can say I broke into the 2000's--before I go into the 6000's. Here's to trying to stick around long enough to get back into the 2000's. :D

Lucky you. My new seniority number is actually just over 400 numbers worse than my new hire number was back in 2001. Wonder how long it will take me to get back to that one?:cool:

Lucky you. My new seniority number is actually just over 400 numbers worse than my new hire number was back in 2001. Wonder how long it will take me to get back to that one?:cool:


Ha. I got you beat. I am 1400 numbers off from my original NWA number. I remember breaking into the 4000's, then the 3000's, now I can say I got to break 3000 into the 2000's (sort of). Now, who knows how long it will take to break anything with Age 65. :rolleyes:


P.S. I won't bring up the last guy I flew with who was hired in '99 who is close to 6000 numbers off from his new hire number. (Oops, I just brought it up.) :rolleyes:

Hey. WHen you guys get done fighting on that other thread, can anyone tell me where the flying to the African island hub is or is supposed to be out of and what type of equipment? If I am learning my new DAL speak correctly, I will guess it's the 76er ouf of ATL or JFK. :)

What are the trips supposed to look like and are they or will they be junior?

Thanks. :)

Why they even posted it, I don't know. Maybe so we could wish a look to see where we would be if wew were 110+ slots up on the combined NWA/DAL list.


Because it's still relevant for our own position bidding until SOC.

Hey. WHen you guys get done fighting on that other thread, can anyone tell me where the flying to the African island hub is or is supposed to be out of and what type of equipment? If I am learning my new DAL speak correctly, I will guess it's the 76er ouf of ATL or JFK. :)

What are the trips supposed to look like and are they or will they be junior?

Thanks. :)

The new Africa flying through SAL Island, Cape Verde (SID) starts in June. It will be flown on 757 equipment probably by the ATL 76ER category. It's about a 7.5 hour flight to SID from ATL. Flights will operate a few times a week from there to Monrovia Liberia, Abuja Nigeria, Luanda Angola, and Equitorial Guinea. I heard the flights to the continent will be turns from SID. Delta has been operating a mini hub in Dakar for a couple years now and will add some more flying through there about the same time to Cape Town and Nairobi. That will be on the 76ER. There's also a JFK to Lagos starting in June most likely flown by the JFK 76ER.

The trips haven't been built yet to my knowledge but I'm guessing the stuff through SID will be 6 day trips with a couple of runs to the continent. Whether they'll be junior or senior is anyone's guess. Keep your shots fully up to date and watch out for the mosquitos.

Thanks Hawaii. I believe I'm starting to catch on. :)

Hey I am off about 5K numbers from my new hire number too. What is your point??

Hey I am off about 5K numbers from my new hire number too. What is your point??

Me? I have no point on that one. I was responding to the other guy. :DI'm fairly sure that that figure makes not a bit of difference, since when the typical NWA pilot got hired in the 90's and 2000's his new hire number was about 5000+ in an airline that was 5000+ strong. This New Delta is 12,000 plus strong. I'm not a numbers guy, but even I know that.... :D

New K Now

Lucky you. My new seniority number is actually just over 400 numbers worse than my new hire number was back in 2001. Wonder how long it will take me to get back to that one?:cool:I think I have you beat. My new number is more than twice my new hire number in 99! I will never make it back to my new hire number either!:(

No flaming please - I know that hiring is not imminent. Does Delta have an anti-nepotism policy for pilot hiring? NWA did not. Thanks.

No flaming please - I know that hiring is not imminent. Does Delta have an anti-nepotism policy for pilot hiring? NWA did not. Thanks.

We do not.

It went away in the late 90's. There were a brother and sister hired in the same class, so I think that you are fine.

It went away in the late 90's. There were a brother and sister hired in the same class, so I think that you are fine.

Were they Married? I know it is the south so I had to check...

Funny, and no!

I know it's in this new contract somewhere, but why shuffle thru that thing when I can ask on here? If you get displaced in one of these displacement bids do you have recall rights back to that base, equipment and seat? At NWA if we got displaced, we would have rights to get back to that seat before anyone else, regardless of seniority.

Only for 180 days.

We do not.

Thanks. Hopefully we'll get this thing growing again soon.

If you are listen to the press and our President elects speech on now, they do not think so.

If you are listen to the press and our President elects speech on now, they do not think so.


Yeah, looks like that have a lot of work to do and they know it.

I know it's in this new contract somewhere, but why shuffle thru that thing when I can ask on here? If you get displaced in one of these displacement bids do you have recall rights back to that base, equipment and seat? At NWA if we got displaced, we would have rights to get back to that seat before anyone else, regardless of seniority.

Yeah... why couldn't THAT come over in the joint contract? :mad::mad::mad:

Yeah... why couldn't THAT come over in the joint contract? :mad::mad::mad:

Yeah, that will definately blow. 180 days, IMO is irrelevant.

Yeah... why couldn't THAT come over in the joint contract? :mad:

I don't know, but it sure as heck should have.:(:mad:

Yeah... why couldn't THAT come over in the joint contract? :mad::mad::mad:

I hope that over time some of the good things we had will find their way into future contracts. Best of both worlds would really make this merger nice for everyone.

Yeah, that will definately blow. 180 days, IMO is irrelevant.

Just to clarify on the 180 days. The time line starts as of the actual date of your displacement. As an example if you are displaced this June from the current bid You have 180 days to get reinstated on another bid. The reinstatement date is from the date of the bid not your planned conversion date. What this means is that if displaced 1 June this Spring and the Nov bid next year for the spring summer flying would allow you go go back you get the reinstatement even though as much as 18 months may have elapsed from the posting of the bid you were displaced on. Its not great but its certainly not irrelevant.

Ok. That is a little better. But, like you said, not great. Only because it would seem like such a wast for them to displace you because of a surplus then recall you within 180 days. Recall rights make more sense for the pilot and the company because of the reduced training cost and reduced studying required for those of us who need to save as many brain cells as possible. :rolleyes:

Heyas,

OK, I'm going to try to move this thread back to it's title:

Some of us are trying to figure out the new contract (DAL PWA + LOA 19 + JPWA, and any ammendments...ugh).

So, whats the deal with CQ? I see that it's pay, no credit in the contract.

At NWA, any training due (along with any other absences...vacation, mil leave, etc) shows up on what we call the "bid list" or "bid deadline" (a name which stems from when we used to call in individually, one at a time, during a 5 minute window to place our bids...LONG story with that).

Anyway, this absence information also shows up in ATLASBid (equivalent to ClassBid). During bidding, you may "claim" credit for CQ, thus making it "pay and credit", and it goes towards your monthly credit window.

Can the DAL guys do the same? Whats the procedure for bidding CQ?

Thx!

Nu

If you are serious, that is one part of the DAL contract that does not measure up to the old NWA contract. That could make for a long month. I always take the credit. :(

When class is updated just before the bid window, it picks the training off your schedule and applies it to the window of hours that your category has for the bid month. You are then awarded trips that will bring you into the window including the training hours. After the award and the schedules are released, the pay becomes pay and no credit for the training on your time card. If you wanted, this might allow you to pick up more time for the month. At least this is the way I believe it works!!!:D

Denny

I know it's in this new contract somewhere, but why shuffle thru that thing when I can ask on here? If you get displaced in one of these displacement bids do you have recall rights back to that base, equipment and seat? At NWA if we got displaced, we would have rights to get back to that seat before anyone else, regardless of seniority.

That is almost correct.

Your NW recall rights last forever, unless:

1. You remove that position from your preference card

OR

2. You are awarded a position that is higher on your preference card than the cone you were displaced from.

OR

3. You move the position to a lower spot on your preference card than the position you are currently flying.

OR

4. The position no longer exists. (Closed base or realigned base)

When class is updated just before the bid window, it picks the training off your schedule and applies it to the window of hours that your category has for the bid month. You are then awarded trips that will bring you into the window including the training hours. After the award and the schedules are released, the pay becomes pay and no credit for the training on your time card. If you wanted, this might allow you to pick up more time for the month. At least this is the way I believe it works!!!:D

Denny

So, pay and credit for purposes of monthly bidding, but once the month starts it is pay only?

That is almost correct.
Did something change? I thought "reinstatement" to a position you were displaced from only lasts 180 days.

So, pay and credit for purposes of monthly bidding, but once the month starts it is pay only?

Pretty much. It actually is for bidding only. You can start messing with your schedule once the 18th of the previous month arrives. At that point, it becomes pay, no credit.

If you want to get technical, it is never pay and credit. It only is looked at as credit by the PBS bid award process in calculating the time to construct you initial line of time.

When class is updated just before the bid window, it picks the training off your schedule and applies it to the window of hours that your category has for the bid month. You are then awarded trips that will bring you into the window including the training hours. After the award and the schedules are released, the pay becomes pay and no credit for the training on your time card. If you wanted, this might allow you to pick up more time for the month. At least this is the way I believe it works!!!:D

Denny

Denny,

Are you then obligated to pick up time to get you into some sort of "minimum window"? IE, I always take training for "pay and credit" and just fly a shorter month (I obsess enough over the training). CB defalts to "pay no credit" and I did that one month, 4 commutes etc etc.

Thanks,
Ferd

I hope that over time some of the good things we had will find their way into future contracts. Best of both worlds would really make this merger nice for everyone.

Problem is.. .that we coulda/shoulda written them when negotiating the joint contract. I know, I know what the politicos are gonna say, and that is that EVERYTHING has a cost, and I do not dispute that. But the window of opportunity is now closed, and we will have to fight management tooth and nail to get these kinds of things written back into the contract. I for one think this wil lbe like a decent reserve system in that we won't see it in our lifetimes. :mad::mad::mad:

Denny,

Are you then obligated to pick up time to get you into some sort of "minimum window"? IE, I always take training for "pay and credit" and just fly a shorter month (I obsess enough over the training). CB defalts to "pay no credit" and I did that one month, 4 commutes etc etc.

Thanks,
Ferd

No. For, say, 3 days of CQ/recurrent its 9:45 of pay/no credit. You can elect to put a preference in your bid of minimum, max time for the month if you wish. As an example, say the average line value is 72 hours. The min and max windows are 64:30 and 79:30 respectively. If you elect minimum time for the month in your PBS bid, and have recurrent of 3 days, PBS will ideally give you trips totaling 54:45. That will be your pay AND credit. You will also receive 9:45 pay/NO credit. The beauty of it is that you can pick up to get more time, or don't pick up. The concept is the same with vacation except vacation is worth 3 hrs per day, also pay no credit except for line construction purposes.

Clear as mud?

Ferd,

What he said! No you do not have to pick up more time. Once your schedule is released by the 18th of the month prior, that's it unless you want to change it somehow your self.

Dont know if any one wants to know but here is a basic schedule of the monthly bid process.

1. Trips for the month posted by the 5th and bidding window opens at 8am eastern on the 5th. (Trips are usually posted a couple of days prior)

2. Bidding closes on the 12th at 8am eastern.

3. Bids published not later than on 17th by 1800 eastern.

4. You can start changing your schedule 1800 eastern on the 18th.

This is the schedule for bidding for Feb. and is pretty normal.

Denny

Has anyone heard about a proposed change to the way Delta does FMS changes while on autopilot? Currently the pilot flying inputs FMS changes while on autopilot while the pilot monitoring verifies the info. I've seen the pilot monitoring required to enter FMS changes while on autopilot at a previous company and it's extremely cumbersome, annoying, confusing, etc. Now seeing as the 767 fleet capt will be a FNW guy (WTH?) it wouldn't surprise me but it makes absolutley no sense if true.

Ferd,

What he said! No you do not have to pick up more time. Once your schedule is released by the 18th of the month prior, that's it unless you want to change it somehow your self.

Dont know if any one wants to know but here is a basic schedule of the monthly bid process.

1. Trips for the month posted by the 5th and bidding window opens at 8am eastern on the 5th. (Trips are usually posted a couple of days prior)

2. Bidding closes on the 12th at 8am eastern.

3. Bids published not later than on 17th by 1800 eastern.

4. You can start changing your schedule 1800 eastern on the 18th.

This is the schedule for bidding for Feb. and is pretty normal.

Denny

Denny/Blane,

Thanks, that's no different so great.

The bid dates look the same too. Is back by the 17th the contract or are they normally back sooner? Ours are "normally" back by the 14th, except holiday months:D

Thanks again,
Ferd

Now seeing as the 767 fleet capt will be a FNW guy (WTH?) it wouldn't surprise me but it makes absolutley no sense if true.

Actually you'll like Tom (C) alot, great guy who can probably actually build the jet with a swiss army knife and a small sodering iron, been flying it forever. Flown with him several times, always a pleasure. Not your usual management stuffed shirt.

Your right, the PM makes the box changes and the PF varifies. I've been looking at your online manuals some now that we can get into Deltanet. Another I've noted is that the capt always loads the box as part of his flow. The fo does the acars and checks the route etc. There is more I'm sure but I haven't gotten that far:D.

With that said, what I was told in annual training this year (Aug) that we will mostly adopt and go with most of your's. Better to confuse a smaller number than a bigger one.

Oh, and it may sound confusing but it's what your used to. I don't know no different so it sounds good to me.

Ferd <------10 year 757 guy

Actually you'll like Tom (C) alot, great guy who can probably actually build the jet with a swiss army knife and a small sodering iron, been flying it forever. Flown with him several times, always a pleasure. Not your usual management stuffed shirt.

Your right, the PM makes the box changes and the PF varifies. I've been looking at your online manuals some now that we can get into Deltanet. Another I've noted is that the capt always loads the box as part of his flow. The fo does the acars and checks the route etc. There is more I'm sure but I haven't gotten that far:D.

With that said, what I was told in annual training this year (Aug) that we will mostly adopt and go with most of your's. Better to confuse a smaller number than a bigger one.

Oh, and it may sound confusing but it's what your used to. I don't know no different so it sounds good to me.

Ferd <------10 year 757 guy

Good to hear he's a good guy. I was surprised though since you don't have any 767s. We've had a very professional and ultra big picture, we fly the jet, don't build it, 767 training dept., IMO, so far. I'd hate to see that change.

You guys have the Capt load the box on every leg? Here, as you've noticed, the PF loads the box and the PM checks it. It's a nice set up because basically the guys switch jobs (I didn't say responsibility) on every leg. Most times here the Capt will do the walk around on the FOs leg as well. At least where I work. FOs do all engine starts, run checklists, PAs etc on the ground. Operations Manual Vol.1 NP 10.4-10.9 breaks out crew duties. Guess there'll be plenty of change for all in this. Guess I should be happy I don't have to figure out a new uniform. Any word on leather jackets/no hats?

In keeping with "best practices" from both companies, I would like to see us get the leather jackets. I almost had to go to MSP this week. My body is used to southern winters now, so JFK and BOS are as cold as it gets for me. However, since we will be seeing a lot more of the north now, that leather coat sounds a lot better to me than the raincoat we have.

In keeping with "best practices" from both companies, I would like to see us get the leather jackets. I almost had to go to MSP this week. My body is used to southern winters now, so JFK and BOS are as cold as it gets for me. However, since we will be seeing a lot more of the north now, that leather coat sounds a lot better to me than the raincoat we have.

Heyas D4E,

Yea, the jackets are one of those really stupid hot button issues for some people.

Even at NWA, we had guys claim conspiracy when they first offered up the jackets ("the company is cheaping the uniform so they can screw us for more concessions!"). More complaned about the price, and the vendor and so on and so on.

I've been standing next to guys "typing angry" (you know, that forceful, one key typing where you can see their knuckles turn white with every keystroke) in emails to the chief pilots about the optional hat policy, and how they're "cheapening the uniform".

Every airline has these guys.

Personally, I could care less about the jacket itself. It could be a parka with a plaid moose hat with earflaps for all I care. What I want is something warm and convienent when on the road 4-5 days at a shot.

The leather jacket replaces THREE coats I used to have to carry with me: the blazer, the overcoat and the coat I'd have to pack so I wouldn't look like a flasher on the overnight. The overcoat wasn't even that warm, and it looked like hell after 2 days of being smushed in the tiny sliver of space on the DC-9 with the other guy's 2 coats.

Ours don't have name tags, are black, and they look very nice. I got mine from the approved vendor (made in the US). It was about $380 (with the optional zip-out thinsulate liner), and they followed up with a call the day after it was delivered (they must have had the delivery logs tagged to notify them) and the cost was the same as a typical coat of the same quality.

The coat had very nice embroidery of the NWA logo on the inside as well as your name. It fit perfect, and it's 10x warmer than the overcoat ever was, and is MADE for the northern tier. I can clean it with a damp cloth in my room instead of taking it to the dry cleaners.

I will be very sad to see it go.

Nu

FedEx just got Parkas with Hoodies.

Anyone question their professionalism because they are smart enough to dress appropriately for the conditions?

What kind of walk around inspections does any airline expect to get when they send FO's out in -18. but dressed for 50 degree weather?

Heyas guys,

Thanks for the info on the training. How are you guys notified for CQ? Does it show up in the computer? I know you can designate "must have off days"...how is that done?

Also, if you are based in ATL, do you still get a PS pass to training (assuming training is in ATL)? Or are you on your own for that? At NWA, we self-list positive space to training with no real interaction from training scheduling. The only thing you need to do is call and verify your hotel location (we have in MSP). Whats the DAL procedure?

Question about deadheading: At NWA, we get our locator numbers in ACCESS (our version of DBMS). We can use those to check in online or at a kiosk to get our boarding passes (or change seats if we want). There's always the gate, but it's a lot better to avoid the line. Since we're all going to probably be doing a lot of deadheading, I figured this would be good to know.

If you don't want to post it here, that's cool..but send me a PM if you can help...

Nu

FedEx just got Parkas with Hoodies.

Anyone question their professionalism because they are smart enough to dress appropriately for the conditions?

What kind of walk around inspections does any airline expect to get when they send FO's out in -18. but dressed for 50 degree weather?

Heyas BB,

Yea, I kind of noticed that the people who complained the most about the jackets were the ones who never had to do walk arounds in the -20 weather in MSP.

You can hide under the pack heat exchanger outlet for only so long before someone misses you.

Nu

Heyas guys,

Thanks for the info on the training. How are you guys notified for CQ? Does it show up in the computer? I know you can designate "must have off days"...how is that done?

Also, if you are based in ATL, do you still get a PS pass to training (assuming training is in ATL)? Or are you on your own for that? At NWA, we self-list positive space to training with no real interaction from training scheduling. The only thing you need to do is call and verify your hotel location (we have in MSP). Whats the DAL procedure?

Question about deadheading: At NWA, we get our locator numbers in ACCESS (our version of DBMS). We can use those to check in online or at a kiosk to get our boarding passes (or change seats if we want). There's always the gate, but it's a lot better to avoid the line. Since we're all going to probably be doing a lot of deadheading, I figured this would be good to know.

If you don't want to post it here, that's cool..but send me a PM if you can help...

Nu

You enter your CQ "Golden days" on the computer, you get a notification when you are up for your training cycle to help remind you. I forget about 90% of the time anyway.

I think you get PS passes to CQ training, but no hotel (you do get a hotel for upgrade training). I am not based in ATL so someone else will have to help you on that.

You can do the same thing on Travelnet and delta.com. If you are deadheading, the reservation will be a generic "Crew" listing. You can go on Travelnet, go to the Company Business tab, and then enter your rotation (pairing) data. You will then be listed by name on the reservation, and you will get your record locator.

If you are going to training, it will already be in your name and you can see your record locator (look under the "My Reservations" tab.

After you have your record locator, you can go online at delta.com and input your first name, last name, and record locator and then you can change your seats just like a real passenger. I don't think you can check in online with a postive space seat, I have always had to use the kiosk when I get to the airport.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info on the training. How are you guys notified for CQ? Does it show up in the computer? I know you can designate "must have off days"...how is that done?

Yes, via computer. If you are going to be scheduled for CQ, you will be notified by the 5th of the month prior to the bid period. IOW for the july bid period, you will be notified by the 5th of june. Prior to the first of june, or the first of any three months you can possibly have CQ, you can designate up to 5 consecutive days which you do not wish to be scheduled for CQ via DBMS.

Also, if you are based in ATL, do you still get a PS pass to training (assuming training is in ATL)? Or are you on your own for that? At NWA, we self-list positive space to training with no real interaction from training scheduling. The only thing you need to do is call and verify your hotel location (we have in MSP). Whats the DAL procedure?

Yes, you get pos space to and from training. You merely call the jumpseat desk, and they will book it for you if it is online or a wholly owned. If you get the reservation number, you can then check in at a kiosk. You do not get a hotel in ATL if you are based in ATL for CQ. You do get one for qualification training if you are based in Atlanta or not.

There was a plan in place and they were working on a system where you would bid for your training days. That has been put on hold because of the programming involved. Every IT guy is involved in merger issues now. Hopefully once the merger is done we can put this system into place so you have some control over when you go.

Good to hear he's a good guy. I was surprised though since you don't have any 767s. We've had a very professional and ultra big picture, we fly the jet, don't build it, 767 training dept., IMO, so far. I'd hate to see that change.

Yeah we're big picture training too, just trying to say he is a real smart guy:D.

You guys have the Capt load the box on every leg? Here, as you've noticed, the PF loads the box and the PM checks it. It's a nice set up because basically the guys switch jobs (I didn't say responsibility) on every leg. Most times here the Capt will do the walk around on the FOs leg as well. At least where I work. FOs do all engine starts, run checklists, PAs etc on the ground. Operations Manual Vol.1 NP 10.4-10.9 breaks out crew duties. Guess there'll be plenty of change for all in this. Guess I should be happy I don't have to figure out a new uniform. Any word on leather jackets/no hats?

A Capt do a walk around? That will stop! Just kidding, our's do some too, just real rare.

I always find it interesting how companies can be so different doing the same stuff on the same airplane. For example, I jumpseat on AA 757s now and then and they start engines EXACTLY BACKWARDS from the way we do. What I do the Capt does and and the FOs do what our Capts do, go figure. It will be fun, especially the call outs.......there will be more than one of your Capts that will talk about the moron Ferd:eek:

The hat and the leather jacket issue is dead and as cold as a MSP walkaround. Delta management would not even discuss it from what I was told.......not the "brand". In fact, the leather jackets that were purchased from the approved vendor, have been purchased back from guys who wanted to sell them and donated to a charity.

See you guys in the sim, and no laughing..............

Ferd

Flown most recently on the 757 and the DC-9. I have JS'd on Delta's 757's over last summer and just the other day on a Delta MD-88...nicest group of guys I could hope to merge with...metaphorically speaking :)

Biggest difference I could see was in the starting engines stuff...on the -9 at NW, the Capt. does it all ..near as I could tell, we will be letting the FO do just about everything until the end of the runway. I don't have much of a problem either way.

I definitely see the safety of the Capt. getting the "big" picture while the FO pushes all the buttons.

And on the 757, I can say that having the PM doing all the FMC stuff leads to confusion sometimes..I'd be interested in hearing from some of the early 757/767 drivers of the early 80's talk about what it was designed to be like. I too, liked the 757 CP guy from NW...I think he will be able to accomodate all good ideas.

One thing that struck me was how similar the general attitudes were. And I've JS"d on a bunch of other Airlines. Everyone here will be focused on the differences, but stop, drop, and think about how relatively close we are.

Holy Kumbaya!

8

Heyas BB,

Yea, I kind of noticed that the people who complained the most about the jackets were the ones who never had to do walk arounds in the -20 weather in MSP.

You can hide under the pack heat exchanger outlet for only so long before someone misses you.

Nu

What, you don't like the MSP issue body-condom? Is there a ear-muff attachment for the U-boat commander hat? :D

Flown most recently on the 757 and the DC-9. I have JS'd on Delta's 757's over last summer and just the other day on a Delta MD-88...nicest group of guys I could hope to merge with...metaphorically speaking :)

Biggest difference I could see was in the starting engines stuff...on the -9 at NW, the Capt. does it all ..near as I could tell, we will be letting the FO do just about everything until the end of the runway. I don't have much of a problem either way.

I definitely see the safety of the Capt. getting the "big" picture while the FO pushes all the buttons.

And on the 757, I can say that having the PM doing all the FMC stuff leads to confusion sometimes..I'd be interested in hearing from some of the early 757/767 drivers of the early 80's talk about what it was designed to be like. I too, liked the 757 CP guy from NW...I think he will be able to accomodate all good ideas.

One thing that struck me was how similar the general attitudes were. And I've JS"d on a bunch of other Airlines. Everyone here will be focused on the differences, but stop, drop, and think about how relatively close we are.

Holy Kumbaya!

8

Several years ago I flew a trip with a captain who was on DALPA's MEC. He had recently been to a ALPA national meeting and was telling me about the differences between pilots from various ALPA carriers.

His belief was that the NWA pilots were most like the DAL pilots in terms of personalities, etc.

And on the 757, I can say that having the PM doing all the FMC stuff leads to confusion sometimes..I'd be interested in hearing from some of the early 757/767 drivers of the early 80's talk about what it was designed to be like.


if anyone has comments on the PM doing the FMS stuff, speak up. This battle is going on right now.

IMHO, when you make changes to the FMS, you very often are using the FMS to fly the airplane. So the PF should make the changes. Especially when doing VNAV stuff.

PF making the changes followed by PM verification is the way to go.

if anyone has comments on the PM doing the FMS stuff, speak up. This battle is going on right now.

IMHO, when you make changes to the FMS, you very often are using the FMS to fly the airplane. So the PF should make the changes. Especially when doing VNAV stuff.

PF making the changes followed by PM verification is the way to go.

I agree 100% and it is just plain intuitive.

On all the aircraft I have flown at NW, if the Autopilot is NOT engaged, the PM makes all the FMS changes for heading and altitude and speed. If the Autopilot IS engaged then the PF makes the inputs. I like this system and it makes sense to have the PF do the changes while on automation, otherwise he is essentially the PF monitoring the PM :confused:

Now if you are referring to the nav inputs like a direct to or an offset, in that case the PM does the inputs, the PF verifies and the PM "executes"

Obviously with the autopilot off the PF is occupied with the controls and then it makes sense for the PM to make the inputs.

I'm probably mixed up on acronyms from being on the giant French poodle for so long so apologies in advance if you are not referring to speed altitude heading pitch roll changes on the Boeings. Damn the French...

Just my $0.02

AT DAL PF makes all inputs no matter what they are when automation on. PM will just verify it.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with you. It drives me crazy (yes it's a short drive) that I can speed intervine (as PF) but I "should" ask the PM to make the same speed change in the box.

Yes it does make since, nav changes are part of the PF duties. Guess we'll see.......like I said earlier, as far as I know we are mostly going your way. Confuse the smaller number than the bigger number.

Ferd

Several years ago I flew a trip with a captain who was on DALPA's MEC. He had recently been to a ALPA national meeting and was telling me about the differences between pilots from various ALPA carriers.

His belief was that the NWA pilots were most like the DAL pilots in terms of personalities, etc.

I would tend to agree Phantom, Up until the early nineties, both airlines had hired heavily on the military side. At that time, HR people got a hold on pretty much all corporate hiring and "Clones" started to be selected. The magic interviewers replicated themselves at each company. There will be regional differences that are both hilarious, annoying and ultimately insignificant. As an old NWA hack, our Cliff's Notes for our groups follow.
NWA Red Book-Got Mine, Gear Up!
Republic North Central, When's Oshkosh?
Southern-Jeet Yet?
AirWest-(They just short called me, some AH called in sick.(AirWest guy).

I'll welcome our new diversity, and being a southern born and bred, probably won't realize it like the "yaah sure, you betchas' will. They are great folks, it takes a while for them to lighten up, but they eventually get there.

Several years ago I flew a trip with a captain who was on DALPA's MEC. He had recently been to a ALPA national meeting and was telling me about the differences between pilots from various ALPA carriers.

His belief was that the NWA pilots were most like the DAL pilots in terms of personalities, etc.


+2

When I was furloughed from NW I flew with a group of early retirement DAL pilots at a start-up cargo operation. They were a great bunch to fly with, and were pretty much the same as the NW guys that I had flown with over the years.

Few of the pilots at either airline really wanted a merger, but we weren't consulted. I am glad, though, that the DL/NW merger is going as well as it is. It could have been much worse.

Here's hoping for a bright future for the combined list!

Agree!

You guys had the rock'en chair.........we had the Clay Fauche test. We are both seriously flawed:D

AAHHHHH........to rock or not to rock, that is the question!!!!!!:D Can't remember which I did!!!!!:D

Priceline Negotiator.........er............DennyCrane!:D

Just curious, what wast the "Clay Fauche" test?

Just curious, what wast the "Clay Fauche" test?

Fauche (sp, may have been Faucher but pronounced Foosheye) was the VP for flight ops in the early to mid/late 90s. He was a not a pilot but Dr from NASA who did all types of sleep studies for them and forgot the results when he got to NWA:rolleyes:.

Anyway, he had a test we all took at Phase I (along with a general knowledge/math/puzzel test) prior to being asked back for an interview. The math etc tests were timed but this psyco test was not. I had seen it before I think and it was a version of the "Myers, Briggs" (sp) that I took with my wife at a church marriage thingie. It supposedly measured several (6 I think) personality types along a sliding scale. Introvert vs Extrovert, Thinker vs Feeler, Master vs Bater ;) (can't remember them all). I have no idea what the company was looking for but I do remember them talking about a "window". I had so many friends that were outstanding pilots who didn't get past that goofy test.....

Oh, and not the MMPI.......we took that during Phase III with the physical.

Ferd

AAHHHHH........to rock or not to rock, that is the question!!!!!!:D Can't remember which I did!!!!!:D

I can't remember either, but I did hear that one of our Captains ran into the doc at a party once and asked him what the real story was concerning the rocking chair. He replied: "My wife bought it -- she thought it would look nice in the office. I don't know how all that other stuff got started."

Clay Foushee

He is infamous for his quote that "pilots perform better when they are fatigued"

Delta guys,

I just got all my uniform stuff from Abbotts the other day. The shirts don't fit at all. I'm a relatively thin guy, so when they measured me they said I needed the Van Huesen tapered shirts. The neck size is just right, but the taper is so severe, I can barely button the chest and the waist buttons will close with about 9 G's of force. I'm 40 in the chest and 35 in the waist, and I look like a friggin bratwurst in these shirts.

What do you guys think is the best fitting highest quality shirt I can buy that will still meet the Delta standard?

Thanks,

Carl

Delta guys,

I just got all my uniform stuff from Abbotts the other day. The shirts don't fit at all. I'm a relatively thin guy, so when they measured me they said I needed the Van Huesen tapered shirts. The neck size is just right, but the taper is so severe, I can barely button the chest and the waist buttons will close with about 9 G's of force. I'm 40 in the chest and 35 in the waist, and I look like a friggin bratwurst in these shirts.

What do you guys think is the best fitting highest quality shirt I can buy that will still meet the Delta standard?

Thanks,

Carl

Heyas Carl,

Yea, most of the DAL guys I talked with said to avoid the Abbots' shirts. Most recommended Pilotshirt.com.

I'm just going to stick with the ones I have until I see some examples.

Nu

Hey Carl, you're not supposed to suck in your gut when they measure you! :)

Here's where I get my shirts. It's owned by a NYC-based Delta guy; Your base and employee number in the remarks gets you a 10(?)% discount:

pilot supplies purdy neat bags pilot gifts pilot pete supplies (http://www.pilotpetesupplies.com/)


Also look at:

vhpilotshirts.com Home Page (http://www.vanheusenpilotshirts.com/)

Delta guys,

I just got all my uniform stuff from Abbotts the other day. The shirts don't fit at all. I'm a relatively thin guy, so when they measured me they said I needed the Van Huesen tapered shirts. The neck size is just right, but the taper is so severe, I can barely button the chest and the waist buttons will close with about 9 G's of force. I'm 40 in the chest and 35 in the waist, and I look like a friggin bratwurst in these shirts.

What do you guys think is the best fitting highest quality shirt I can buy that will still meet the Delta standard?

Thanks,

Carl

Pilot House shirts are great. I highly recommend them.

Hey,

Are we NWA guys supposed to be able to check loads on the Deltanet site yet, or have I been banned already? I went to the travelnet section and nodda.

new K

For now VRS only.

Delta guys,

I just got all my uniform stuff from Abbotts the other day. The shirts don't fit at all. I'm a relatively thin guy, so when they measured me they said I needed the Van Huesen tapered shirts. The neck size is just right, but the taper is so severe, I can barely button the chest and the waist buttons will close with about 9 G's of force. I'm 40 in the chest and 35 in the waist, and I look like a friggin bratwurst in these shirts.

What do you guys think is the best fitting highest quality shirt I can buy that will still meet the Delta standard?

Thanks,

Carl

Carl,

Abbott's tailored those shirts specifically for the Delta Newhires who were going on to the 7ER. The amount of eating you do on those international flights usually fills in the tapered shirts rather quickly.
I hear Big and Tall Men's Shop will be offering a uniform for us in the near future, you know elastic pants and non-stainable, one-size-fits-all shirts with the epaulets/hardware stitched right into the shirts.
Real classy, stuff.

Sincerely,
DH

p.s. Don't forget your hat.:D

you know elastic pants and non-stainable, one-size-fits-all shirts with the epaulets/hardware stitched right into the shirts.
Real classy, stuff.


Sans-a-belt! Now you too can look like a HS gym teacher.

Heyas Guys,

New question!

At NWA, we have an automated notification system from crew skeds. Essentially, if there is anything that changes on your schedule (including requested adjustments), "the "machine" calls the phone numbers you have listed in the system, and will ask you to log in to get the details or will leave a message if you don't pick up.

It will also send an email and/or a text message to your phone if you set it up.

Does the DAL system do anything like that?

Thanks!

Nu

Heyas Guys,

New question!

At NWA, we have an automated notification system from crew skeds. Essentially, if there is anything that changes on your schedule (including requested adjustments), "the "machine" calls the phone numbers you have listed in the system, and will ask you to log in to get the details or will leave a message if you don't pick up.

It will also send an email and/or a text message to your phone if you set it up.

Does the DAL system do anything like that?


Thanks!

Nu

You can only wish! DT still believes cutting edge is Commodore 64s. They refuse t even consider that most people use macs too. Maybe the new head of DT, (from NWA,) can drag them into this century.

Heyas Guys,

New question!

At NWA, we have an automated notification system from crew skeds. Essentially, if there is anything that changes on your schedule (including requested adjustments), "the "machine" calls the phone numbers you have listed in the system, and will ask you to log in to get the details or will leave a message if you don't pick up.

It will also send an email and/or a text message to your phone if you set it up.

Does the DAL system do anything like that?

Thanks!

Nu

Good news is that during the winter months the carrier pigeons don't always make it to the colder bases up north.

That usually gets some reserve guys of the hook.

Folks,

Alot of questions and answers on this thread about what their new seniority may hold when we join together. DAL was out of whack with a more traditional pilot list due to our BK but with the latest displacement bid, things are becoming a little more in line. New hires came off ER's from both ATL and NYC. Domestic 76 from LAX and ATL. Some went to 73s but most to Mad Dogs. A few relative NH still in NYCER. They have probably been with DAL for a year. About every category got more senior with the cascading effect. Hopefully, we will not have to do that again.

You can only wish! DT still believes cutting edge is Commodore 64s. They refuse t even consider that most people use macs too. Maybe the new head of DT, (from NWA,) can drag them into this century.

Great Googly Moogly,

The NWA system has been in place for at least 5 years. If you get a schedule change, depending on when in the trip hour, you will :

Get a call/message from "the machine"
Get an ACARS message
Get a crew notifcation attached to the paperwork

AND aways

a text/email message if you have it set up.

How about a voice response system? The NWA scheduling VRS is surprisingly versitile, and you can do everything from hear the summary/specifics of your current pattern and schedule to listen/bid on open time and even bid vacations.

ATLAS, our version of eCrew/iCrew is Mac friendly, although we access the mainframes directly with 70s style terminal menus (via emulators) versus a windows/Java interface. Most everything else is web driven, including company mail, bid packets, and what not. Bidding is done by ATLASbid, which is essentially the same as CLASSBid.

It's gone through a couple iterations. When I got hired, we still had "green screen" terminals for mainframe access at work. You could access them at home, but you had to go through Compuserve dialup. The CLASSBid client also dialed up through Compuserve if you were doing it at home.

The first version of ATLAS used the web, but you had to go through a VPN that had a "nuclear code key". No kidding, they sent you this gadget that changed codes every 10 seconds, and you had to enter it to get access. That ruled out unattended access, like for booking jumpseats, but you could still use CS for that stuff.

Some of what NWA does is kinda backwards. Our schedule adjustments are all done manually by the 3rd shift crew schedulers. Our "PCS" is nothing but a screen that sends a pre-formatted messaged to scheduling. At 12:01am, they print them all out and work them by hand. But, if you get a change, you'll get a call by the machine the next morning.

Even more quirky was the "5 minute window" schedule bidding. Before we went to PBS in 97-98, the system in place had everyone getting assigned a "5 minute window" to place a bid for what lines they wanted. These would be published on what was called a "bid deadline", which was basically a bid list with your time to call and the phone number.

When you called, you talked to a live person, and they could tell you what lines were left OR you could build a line out of open flying. You kind of had to have all your sh!t in one sack, though, because you only had 5 minutes.

Alternatively, if you were in MSP during your bid window, you could go bid in person. The room was sort of like an old-school trader's room, as there were boards with grids, and telephones ringing and whatnot, and it was always pretty busy. You could walk in, check out what lines were left on the dry erase boards or scrounge over the trips in open flying. When your time came, you'd work something out with the analyst, who was always pretty good about giving you the ins and outs (no newbie ever forgot "Al, Al, the new hires' pal"), and I think you could even make swaps with open time right then and there with your line.

There was also a "buddy phone" which guys would call (and if you were standing there, decorum pretty much insisted that you pick up the phone), and you could give them the gouge on what was left, so they'd be all set when their window poped up.

If you didn't feel like doing any of the above, you could just put a list of lines in the computer (like every other airline in the world), which the analyst would look at and give you your choice. But that was boring.

But hey, that's all in the past. Fun to think about how we used to do it...

Nu