Airline Pilot Forums

Well, I never thought it would come to this... Basically, I just never thought I would be 'that guy'... the guy that is so fed up with how the airline industry works for hiring, furloughing cycles, mainline whipsawing jets against it's contract carriers and tired of being abused.

I think I might have finally reached the 'screw it' point in my career. I guarantee you in my 23 years of existence that it didnt take long to get there.... a little history, flashback 6 months ago: Whipsawing... yep, just learned the term. I was about to feel it first hand. Comair getting CRJ-900's. Yea right. I had a line for the first time in the 50 seater... scheduled for 70/90 differences training, life is good. Then Delta decides, nope, Pinnacle is getting these planes. Comair's reaction, furlough. And boy did they ever. My last flight was spent looking out the window at an awesome sunset from SAV-LGA on November 4th.

Ok, by now, Mesaba is getting Pinnacle's 900's (see the pattern?.... should have seen this one coming). I apply, get hired, Jan 5 CR9. Yay, life is good. In the mean time doing computer course design for a small business. Put in two weeks before Christmas. 7 days before class starts (today), voicemail: "You class has been canceled". Great. Thanks for some ADVANCED WARNING!!! 2 weeks are in at the other job, my position is being eliminated due to the 'economic climate', which is cooling as fast as the globe is. :rolleyes: Now I have nothing. Thanks Delta.

I think it might be time to get out. I've bent over backwards and tried my best and did well as far as I can tell. Still cant catch a break. I think now is the time for that MBA or even med school. Ya, Dr's are complaining about their job... but at least they have one and are able to get one. Now, maybe I sound bitter..... but that is probably because I AM! Thanks for the vent.... </rant>

Anyway, applied for a job at OH doing some courseware development... we'll see if that pans out. Would be nice to have a decent paying job with bennies and still have recall status. We'll see, I'll keep you guys posted. Any last parting words of wisdom?

Anyway, applied for a job at OH doing some courseware development... we'll see if that pans out. Would be nice to have a decent paying job with bennies and still have recall status. We'll see, I'll keep you guys posted. Any last parting words of wisdom?

Good luck! It takes awhile to find a job you like, and at 23 you certainly have time to look at other options. It's better to get out then stay in and be bitter. Go see how the rest of the world works, it's a good thing to gain perspective. Flying will always be here, and hopefully it won't be so messed up if/when you come back.

Age twenty-three is salad days. Just be thankful you're not forty with young children, a house-wife and a mortgage to add to the mix. Believe me, things could be much worse. This is merely a bump off the first rung. Actually, I think this is probably one of the best things that could happen (because of your age). You've already succeeded in completing your first 121 training curriculum so you know it can be accomplished. Now you have an opportunity to advance your skill-set outside of aviation so when this happens again (and it will) you will not lose everything when the stakes are much higher. There will be plenty of pilot jobs in the future.

Peace

Never thought I would be "that guy" either but I am. Can't take the ups and downs, no pay, companies keep folding. Got out and am now on the other side and it is not bad at all. Have a decent paying stable job and a future. Will always keep the flying on the back burner just in case I have another career crisis. I learned that flying is alot more fun when you don't depend on it for a paycheck. You are young enough, no harm pursuing options, you can always go back. In my experience, I don't want to. Give me a Piper Cub on a nice clear afternoon and I am a happy guy! Good luck!:)

I am like a broken record around here. I remember well a guy who threw in the towel at 25 and went to school to become a Dentist. At the time I thought to my self that the guy was crazy. I ran into him years later flying a Bonanza that he owned as a successful dentist.

In my career I had a few close calls as a young pilot with leaving the profession only to be saved at the last minute by a surprise flying job. My biggest regret now is that I did not get out sooner.

Pick a new course and do not look back. Once you are established in a new profession and have some options and security you might consider returning to aviation. However like someone else mentioned by then you will not want to go back.

SkyHigh

Diver Driver, I have been reading about your progress too and I am profoundly sorry to hear about your frustration and desire to back out after all you did to get there. Since you are burned out and furloughed, take a vacation and get a degree as an assistant physician or whatever it is. Or, since you have a computer background maybe skip school for now and just make some money.

But I wouldn't close the door on airline flying.

1) If there is an age range and life situation appropriate to pursuing the career as an airline pilot, you are in it. In contrast, I am an over 40 guy with debts and not enough retirement bank to justify the move. I could do it but you are in a far more financially justifiable position and lifestyle for pursuing airline work and I cannot think of any demographic more suitable than yours. There are plenty of DEs and Jungles out there who love it and don't think you wouldn't love it as well.

2) If you loved flying and you must have, then you will still love it when your frustration level gets back to normal again. You will want to fly then and CFI'ing or Piper Cubbing may not be enough for you. Give it a try, the Sunday Bonanza thing is fun but some of us are meant to fly all day and such flying is not really adequate for us. We need airplanes all day long.

3) The economy will resurface eventually, and the regional airlines will spring back. It was meant to be a stepping stone anyway, remember? There have been boom times and they will return. Then you can make your move and get that ATP and all the left seat time you need.

Cheers for '09.

-Cub

I pulled out of the airline business recently as well and couldn't be happier about it.

I am beginning school again in 5 days to finish my CPA credential. I've got my books, I am enrolled, syllabuses are printed and I am ready to go. I also just recently created my own corporation into which I will grow in time. My only long term goal with accounting is to run my own practice, my way. And with the recent formation of the corporation, technically I am already a business owner. However, the company has no assets and no income right now.

This endeavor in school to finish the CPA, get some more real world experience, etc is all mission driven toward the goal of focusing entirely on running a profitable accounting company down the road. Its a good feeling to know that how I go about this, when I do it, and how big I grow it, etc is entirely up to me. Is it going to be easy? Of course not! But at least I am in the driver seat and can plan for and seize opportunities on my terms. In the airline business, its all about wait and see. What is management going to do next? Pilots are just pawns on the corporate chessboard. Wouldn't it be better to be on the other side of the fence?

One other point:

I am an aeroholic. I love this stuff and have an unending thirst for aviation. However, I have slowly come to the realization that my obsession was actually crippling me as a person. I spent more time longing to fly and basically being unsatisfied with my current situation (whatever it was at the time) as regards aviation than I did actually enjoying it.

My point is that there are so many other things in life worth pursuing. I just recently picked music back up. I'm practicing everyday and having a blast learning new things and figuring out new pieces to play and practicing is free! Exercising is free and can be done with no strings attached. Go build a remote control airplane model or work on a vehicle.

There are so many pursuits out there that bring a smile to my face, I am learning (always a work in progress) to merely add aviation as one of many worthy pursuits and not something whose lack of sufficient quantity drives me to lose sight of other important things - time at home, simplicity of driving to work, not being a part time dad, and basically having control over where my life goes and when it gets there.

And lastly, I have found a part time flight instructing job to do while in school. Things are slow, but I am averaging about 6-8 hours a week right now. I always knew that general aviation is where my heart lied. Getting back into a small airplane and flying around at 2-3k feet with a sectional in my lap is much more satisfying to me than airline flying - but maybe I can I only truly appreciate it like I do after having experienced the 121 gig. Who knows?

Best of luck.

I would trade shoes with you in a heartbeat. Seriously, to be 23 again and have the whole world and my whole life in front of me, un-married with no mortgage to tie you down. Oh those were the days I tell you.......

Tons of jobs overseas right now. Go see the world for a couple of years, add to your logbook and wait out this recession with a good flying job while the rest of us fight for the scraps.

I know that's easier said than done but if I were in your shoes, that would be my plan right now.

Good luck either way. Good luck to us all.

HAPPP NEW YEAR!

I would trade shoes with you in a heartbeat. Seriously, to be 23 again and have the whole world and my whole life in front of me, un-married with no mortgage to tie you down. Oh those were the days I tell you.......

Tons of jobs overseas right now. Go see the world for a couple of years, add to your logbook and wait out this recession with a good flying job while the rest of us fight for the scraps.

I know that's easier said than done but if I were in your shoes, that would be my plan right now.
...


In another 18 months I am going to be debt free, no mortgage, single and a bit eager to do something new. Can you be a little more specific as to what doors you would knock on if you were to, and the minimum experience levels required by them? I am a <1000 hours CFI with no turbine experience. I would venture a guess even the most liberal foreign airlines in India and China etc. would require a 737 or Airbus type to even look at my application.

Good luck Diver, and good choice too.

Diver Driver,

Good luck with whatever path you choose! I have always appreciated your humor, wit, and avatar.

Please keep us posted :) And, for your own sake, stay positive and keep an open mind.

Well, I never thought it would come to this... Basically, I just never thought I would be 'that guy'... the guy that is so fed up with how the airline industry works for hiring, furloughing cycles, mainline whipsawing jets against it's contract carriers and tired of being abused.

I think I might have finally reached the 'screw it' point in my career. I guarantee you in my 23 years of existence that it didnt take long to get there.... a little history, flashback 6 months ago: Whipsawing... yep, just learned the term. I was about to feel it first hand. Comair getting CRJ-900's. Yea right. I had a line for the first time in the 50 seater... scheduled for 70/90 differences training, life is good. Then Delta decides, nope, Pinnacle is getting these planes. Comair's reaction, furlough. And boy did they ever. My last flight was spent looking out the window at an awesome sunset from SAV-LGA on November 4th.

Ok, by now, Mesaba is getting Pinnacle's 900's (see the pattern?.... should have seen this one coming). I apply, get hired, Jan 5 CR9. Yay, life is good. In the mean time doing computer course design for a small business. Put in two weeks before Christmas. 7 days before class starts (today), voicemail: "You class has been canceled". Great. Thanks for some ADVANCED WARNING!!! 2 weeks are in at the other job, my position is being eliminated due to the 'economic climate', which is cooling as fast as the globe is. :rolleyes: Now I have nothing. Thanks Delta.

I think it might be time to get out. I've bent over backwards and tried my best and did well as far as I can tell. Still cant catch a break. I think now is the time for that MBA or even med school. Ya, Dr's are complaining about their job... but at least they have one and are able to get one. Now, maybe I sound bitter..... but that is probably because I AM! Thanks for the vent.... </rant>

Anyway, applied for a job at OH doing some courseware development... we'll see if that pans out. Would be nice to have a decent paying job with bennies and still have recall status. We'll see, I'll keep you guys posted. Any last parting words of wisdom?

Don't take this the wrong way but if I researched correctly you've only been 121 for just under 2 years. It's a **** sandwich right now but you young guys have no staying power...2 years and bail, are you kidding me!? Guess I'm getting old...

I know it must be a hard decision to throw in the sectional for an alternate career. Even if that decision was a by-product of a furlough. Any how, best of luck in what lies ahead for you.

My career has had as many ups and downs as I have landings. If I have one regret in the past 21 years of flying , is that I did not diversify my skills to be better suited for industry tailspins.

Diver, look at this as an opportunity to diversify yourself, keep your flying skills current (even if it is in a 172), recognize your worth and don't let this furlough undermine that.

If you stay the course you could easily have two careers. For example I recently met a guy who worked as a police officer for twenty years. All the while flying a Falcon in a corporate setting. It can be done, an you have all the time ahead of you to do it.

Don't take this the wrong way but if I researched correctly you've only been 121 for just under 2 years. It's a **** sandwich right now but you young guys have no staying power...2 years and bail, are you kidding me!? Guess I'm getting old...

I didnt say that I was going to get out long term. I have been out of the cockpit for 2 months and its killing me.... kind of like going through withdraw symptoms. My series of misfortunes over the last 6 months have been incredible... not to cry a river or anything, but it has brought me to the realization that I need to be equipped with the ability to work outside of aviation as well. Now that I have been furloughed from OH and thrown a life jacket in the pool at XJ, I am out of the industry for the time being.... and until I get recalled at Comair or given a class date at XJ, I will probably stay out unless other carriers start hiring. In the mean time, I guess it is time to diversify...

Im not giving up long term, but for now there's nothing... I'll be back, just not sure when.

I think you're making a good choice. Not only can furloughs get you, but as I found out, losing you're medical can get you too. At age 35, after 15 years of flying I start back at school next week. I already have a BS degree so at least the basics are out of the way. It was good to reach my goal of flying a 737 for a major. Knowing what I know now, If I were 23 again I'd walk away from flying instead of limping away like I am now. Best of luck to you.

I didnt say that I was going to get out long term. I have been out of the cockpit for 2 months and its killing me.... kind of like going through withdraw symptoms. My series of misfortunes over the last 6 months have been incredible... not to cry a river or anything, but it has brought me to the realization that I need to be equipped with the ability to work outside of aviation as well. Now that I have been furloughed from OH and thrown a life jacket in the pool at XJ, I am out of the industry for the time being.... and until I get recalled at Comair or given a class date at XJ, I will probably stay out unless other carriers start hiring. In the mean time, I guess it is time to diversify...

Im not giving up long term, but for now there's nothing... I'll be back, just not sure when.

Gotcha, sorry I misunderstood.

Well, I never thought it would come to this... Basically, I just never thought I would be 'that guy'... the guy that is so fed up with how the airline industry works for hiring, furloughing cycles, mainline whipsawing jets against it's contract carriers and tired of being abused.

I think I might have finally reached the 'screw it' point in my career. I guarantee you in my 23 years of existence that it didnt take long to get there.... a little history, flashback 6 months ago: Whipsawing... yep, just learned the term. I was about to feel it first hand. Comair getting CRJ-900's. Yea right. I had a line for the first time in the 50 seater... scheduled for 70/90 differences training, life is good. Then Delta decides, nope, Pinnacle is getting these planes. Comair's reaction, furlough. And boy did they ever. My last flight was spent looking out the window at an awesome sunset from SAV-LGA on November 4th.

Ok, by now, Mesaba is getting Pinnacle's 900's (see the pattern?.... should have seen this one coming). I apply, get hired, Jan 5 CR9. Yay, life is good. In the mean time doing computer course design for a small business. Put in two weeks before Christmas. 7 days before class starts (today), voicemail: "You class has been canceled". Great. Thanks for some ADVANCED WARNING!!! 2 weeks are in at the other job, my position is being eliminated due to the 'economic climate', which is cooling as fast as the globe is. :rolleyes: Now I have nothing. Thanks Delta.

I think it might be time to get out. I've bent over backwards and tried my best and did well as far as I can tell. Still cant catch a break. I think now is the time for that MBA or even med school. Ya, Dr's are complaining about their job... but at least they have one and are able to get one. Now, maybe I sound bitter..... but that is probably because I AM! Thanks for the vent.... </rant>

Anyway, applied for a job at OH doing some courseware development... we'll see if that pans out. Would be nice to have a decent paying job with bennies and still have recall status. We'll see, I'll keep you guys posted. Any last parting words of wisdom?

The only 2 regionals that are major players is Republic Airways and SkyWest. Choose and be happy. At least they are planning for the future in 1 way or another.

Good Luck

Sorry to hear the news Diver.......may luck bring you back to the aviation world. Everything's in a downturn, but once things do eventually swing around they will be looking for pilots like mad. I have a good friend who's been flying for a company 25 years, and they cut the whole dept. 1 yr ago. He just finally picked up a good contract position in the last 2 months. He's also a DPE, but that's only part time anyways(although summer he maxes out his allowed quarterly check-rides). He had to wait 10+ months before he found something that fit him, and he's a DPE, ATP, 14,000+hr pilot with Be-20, Starship, etc.. experience.

So hopefully you'll still be around when things do turn up, so best of luck!

So hopefully you'll still be around when things do turn up, so best of luck!

I'm sure I will. As I sit behind my desk hacking away in HTML all day, I'll hear a plane fly over and wish I were in it 'bi***ing about pay or the contract or reserve' in typical airline pilot fashion... :D

I have a desk job too and unfortunately my building has two airports within very close proximity so airplanes are always flying over me. It's very frustrating... I can definitely sympathize.

I have a desk job too and unfortunately my building has two airports within very close proximity so airplanes are always flying over me. It's very frustrating... I can definitely sympathize.

Ya, I know how you feel... I am literally about 3 miles out and right under the approach path for 36R at CVG. Pretty much all the 18L departures do the left turn right over my office building.

Ya, I know how you feel... I am literally about 3 miles out and right under the approach path for 36R at CVG. Pretty much all the 18L departures do the left turn right over my office building.

Years after being laid off I would stop whatever I was doing and strain skywards searching the sky for every passing plane. I don't do that as much anymore however the other night I got up at 3:00AM to use the bathroom and heard the distant sound of a passing jet and thought to myself "thank God that isn't me". I finished my business and went back to my warm bed.

Man do I hate red eyes. :)

SkyHigh

Welcome to the 'Dark Side'. I've got 10 years on you; wish I had made the same decision at your age. Now I'm out and feel like I blew the last decade. Admittedly, it was tolerable when I was younger. But my priorities and responsibilities have changed, and with that, my career expectations. Ironically, I was already planning my escape route when I lost my medical - so the door has been slammed shut on that chapter of my life. I absolutely miss flying to death. I cannot describe how much I love to fly, how happy I am to be in the air. But the lifestyle and career that encompass being a pilot I didn't care for.

PS - on going back to school, I'd suggest just learn a trade. More and more college degrees aren't getting a good return on investment. 20/20 just did a story on it tonight - it's a dark secret of the american university system.

Night have you thought about flying gliders, for fun I mean?? No medical required, only have to "self qualify" whatever that means? We have several members of our club that have lost their medical for one reason or another but are still able to fly at least in gliders.

not sure how that LSA stuff works either, for someone who's lost their medical. I know a medical isn't required to fly one however, just a driver's license, but if your medical was revoked, i dunno if that'd complicate anything.

I'm sure I will. As I sit behind my desk hacking away in HTML all day, I'll hear a plane fly over and wish I were in it 'bi***ing about pay or the contract or reserve' in typical airline pilot fashion... :D
I read your post and have to chuckle to myself, weve all been there, after 6 weeks gone, Im still wishing to get back to that multiple leg, 30 min turn around, whos got time to pee, 6hr block/14hr duty day I so despise...lol.;) Hope this brings a smile to your face, we all must keep our sense of humor right now, the cycle will turn eventually, then we'll be griping oh crap you want me in class when, shoot where did I put my systems manual, oh oh oh I have a sim pc in 2 days...ah hell where did I put the V1 cut....God I love Flying...Good luck to you and remember JUST KEEP SMILING...it makes people wonder what your up to....:D

not sure how that LSA stuff works either, for someone who's lost their medical. I know a medical isn't required to fly one however, just a driver's license, but if your medical was revoked, i dunno if that'd complicate anything.

If you let your medical lapse, you may continue to fly under sport pilot priv. but if its revoked or you fail to get issued one, you are done without an FAA waivered reissue, the key to flying under sport pilot is if you think you no longer can get a medical just let it lapse, do not attempt to get one if you know youll fail it...because if your denied you cant fly even LSA.

I sure miss it too. I'm 27 and been furloughed 4 months now... the longest I've gone without flying since I was 21 years old. It's crazy... I almost feel as though I never even was a pilot.

I've applied for ATC and am really hoping to get that job... The stability and pay would be a welcomed reprieve right now... however every time I read about somebody taking a trip internationally, my heart sinks with the thought that I might be giving that up.

I think I will try and do ATC and get my credit cards paid off (good lord they're bad), and hopefully get some investments, then re-evaluate flying.

At any rate, good luck to us all.

I think you're making a good choice. Not only can furloughs get you, but as I found out, losing you're medical can get you too. At age 35, after 15 years of flying I start back at school next week. I already have a BS degree so at least the basics are out of the way. It was good to reach my goal of flying a 737 for a major. Knowing what I know now, If I were 23 again I'd walk away from flying instead of limping away like I am now. Best of luck to you.

Sorry that happened to you, but you seem to have a good attitude and are most of the way to your back up plan.

Thanks for sharing your story - I'm about to buy a rental property in the hopes of having a little side income, tax deduction, and down the road perhaps some retirement income or college money for my kid when we sell. The point being you never know when you may not have aviation as your job, whatever the reason.

Diver-

Don't know if you've considered ATC or not. We just had 80 guys/gals get furloughed at ASA, and one was talking on the bus how he was starting ATC class a week or two later, but would most likely come back when we did recalls. I heard rumor that another furloughee was going to do the same.