Airline Pilot Forums

Some SWA pilots will also upgrade during that time, and their raise is going to be a lot more than the same DL pilot's raise.

They also won't see their customers ride on a CRJ-200 flown by an understaffed circus of an airline.

Not many will. When they retire one guy, one FO moves up, and they hire one. At DL or any Major, one top guy leaves, and 10 move up. Adding any growth aircraft does the same, but maybe not 10 guys moving up, maybe 4 or 5 depending on where the upgrading Capt comes from. (widebody FO or narrowbody FO). Still, it equals good upward movement and pay raises. At Southwest, not so much. And have you checked out any new Capt rates in 2015 for any DL plane bigger than a 737? A lot more than Southwest, FINALLY. How many DL 737 Capts will move up to bigger equipment in future years? It will be really nice. Southwest will slow considerably when younger AirTran pilots start moving into Southwest Capt ranks and stay for 30 years. And did you know 200+ 50 seaters you hate will be leaving the fleet within the next 3 years? You're welcome.

Show off.

But hey, it's better than watching Newk's video of Super playing pool.

Next time Super, don't lose your bet. Or try so hard.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ttsUwSB2b8s/TdHD7PyWh-I/AAAAAAAANZI/YcMeW92EIwU/s1600/poolshot.gif

gotta go the extra mile to eek the attention off of the newk, just trying to keep pace

That's actually how the crowd looked when he hit those birds....

no not the birds, the nose gear crushing the earth...:eek: Just trying to take your advice on making sure they knew they "arrived" lol

It probably happened less than a minute after I turned the radar back on, "for the birds."

it had nothing to do with the radar, they were trying to get a peak at you to tell their friends but once they got a peak they exploded leaving guts all over your windscreen :D

Been thinking....if Delta were the Adams Family, what aircraft would be what character? I'm thinking that the Mad Dog HAS to be Uncle Fester....Mortisha is the A-330, she speaks french....Lurch is the 747....Is Pugsly the 9? A-320?

I dunno - I'm thinking the Mad Dog is Wednesday Addams. She's normally sweet and adorable, but let your guard down for one second and you'll find a knife in your back. :D

Some of our current 737 FOs will be 717 Capts then, making an extra $70 an hour. How much of a raise is that? 30 MD90s will replace the 17 current DC9-50s, and by the end of 2015 we will have 88 717s that will pay $195 an hour for the Capt by then. Say it won't happen. SAY IT!!!!! (in Van Damme voice during Kumite ending in the movie "Bloodsport")

I Love BloodSport!! MateH!! I watched that movie over 20 times!:eek:

TEN

We will be negotiating a new contract in 2015... what's your point?


I was being sarcastic, guess it didn't come across that way even though I used a :rolleyes:. Just stating that the original poster made it seem like this 717 deal is a lot better for the company than ALPA thought. Original poster implied that it will save the company $750 million next year alone. I believe the article is not written well because I have to believe, as stated by shiznit, that the savings must be from the entire refleeting project. There is no way that just 16 airplanes (717's) next year are going to save us that kind of money. My thoughts anyway.

Not many will. When they retire one guy, one FO moves up, and they hire one. At DL or any Major, one top guy leaves, and 10 move up. Adding any growth aircraft does the same, but maybe not 10 guys moving up, maybe 4 or 5 depending on where the upgrading Capt comes from. (widebody FO or narrowbody FO). Still, it equals good upward movement and pay raises. At Southwest, not so much. And have you checked out any new Capt rates in 2015 for any DL plane bigger than a 737? A lot more than Southwest, FINALLY. How many DL 737 Capts will move up to bigger equipment in future years? It will be really nice. Southwest will slow considerably when younger AirTran pilots start moving into Southwest Capt ranks and stay for 30 years. And did you know 200+ 50 seaters you hate will be leaving the fleet within the next 3 years? You're welcome.

gotta go the extra mile to eek the attention off of the newk, just trying to keep pace...

Last observation of the trip:

Even though the vote went 62%-38%, I bet* 100% of APC'ers when they meet in the real world at some point will ask one another, "What the hell is wrong with Bill Lumberg?"


*[Ts, 80, whoever Ts is looking for, or anyone else, I do not really want to bet. It's a joke.]

That is all..... :rolleyes: :D

I was being sarcastic, guess it didn't come across that way even though I used a :rolleyes:. Just stating that the original poster made it seem like this 717 deal is a lot better for the company than ALPA thought. Original poster implied that it will save the company $750 million next year alone. I believe the article is not written well because I have to believe, as stated by shiznit, that the savings must be from the entire refleeting project. There is no way that just 16 airplanes (717's) next year are going to save us that kind of money. My thoughts anyway.

Not necessarily directed at you but just a thought anyway - for comparison's sake. Had the company added the 717 fleet outside of Section 6 we would have negotiated a new pay rate for it. Maybe it would have gotten M88 pay. So say the company parks the 50s, adds the 717s, we negotiate a new rate, and get nothing, but they still save their huge chunk of change. Not saying its fair if this analyst is correct, but in alternate universes this could have turned just plain bleak for us.

Remember too that not every penny of profit that Delta makes immediately is willed to you. There's 79,999 others that think they generated the revenue who want fractions of your penny.

Some SWA pilots will also upgrade during that time, and their raise is going to be a lot more than the same DL pilot's raise.

They also won't see their customers ride on a CRJ-200 flown by an understaffed circus of an airline.

Southwests fleet plan is for zero growth the next 5 years and they have very few retirements. The Captain upgrades will come as Airtran Captains are bumped back to FO and SW FO's replace them.

I Love BloodSport!! MateH!! I watched that movie over 20 times!:eek:

TEN

Chong Li, Chong Li, Chong Li!!!!!

Not necessarily directed at you but just a thought anyway - for comparison's sake. Had the company added the 717 fleet outside of Section 6 we would have negotiated a new pay rate for it. Maybe it would have gotten M88 pay. So say the company parks the 50s, adds the 717s, we negotiate a new rate, and get nothing, but they still save their huge chunk of change. Not saying its fair if this analyst is correct, but in alternate universes this could have turned just plain bleak for us.

Remember too that not every penny of profit that Delta makes immediately is willed to you. There's 79,999 others that think they generated the revenue who want fractions of your penny.

FWIW,

I agree with you.

I was being sarcastic, guess it didn't come across that way even though I used a :rolleyes:. Just stating that the original poster made it seem like this 717 deal is a lot better for the company than ALPA thought. Original poster implied that it will save the company $750 million next year alone. I believe the article is not written well because I have to believe, as stated by shiznit, that the savings must be from the entire refleeting project. There is no way that just 16 airplanes (717's) next year are going to save us that kind of money. My thoughts anyway.

You could be right about that. However its possible that the savings quoted comes from imminent savings as a result of getting the 717's. Savings such as getting out of long term high water mark real estate bubble 50 seater leases, cancellation of engine replacements and heavy checks, etc. Even savings from the juniority virus (SJS) that every RFP gives management as they watch the piranhas tear themselves up for every pound of ground round they lob into the red frothy waters of the regional industry.

Even if the 750m number is correct, it could be savings next year that we would have spent over several years. Depends on when and how they account for it I guess.

I Love BloodSport!! MateH!! I watched that movie over 20 times!:eek:

TEN

Better IMO
Talladega Nights: "I love really thin pancakes" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDqXbk_ThH0)

I was being sarcastic, guess it didn't come across that way even though I used a :rolleyes:. Just stating that the original poster made it seem like this 717 deal is a lot better for the company than ALPA thought. Original poster implied that it will save the company $750 million next year alone. I believe the article is not written well because I have to believe, as stated by shiznit, that the savings must be from the entire refleeting project. There is no way that just 16 airplanes (717's) next year are going to save us that kind of money. My thoughts anyway.

I agree with you. Sorry I missed your point. I can't keep looking for ghosts in the closet, or whining because I feel that if the company is able to save money that somehow there is a direct connection to some sort of failure on the negotiator's part. It is stupidly naive to do so. IF our deal was part of a bigger deal that allows the company to save... make money.. I can't see how that is a bad thing.

Several people I know just sent in cards for the first time due to recent events.

Several people I know will not renew their cards due to recent events.

Several people I know just sent in cards for the first time due to recent events.

Well I guess if scope recapture and the biggest pay increase in the industry sends them to the enemy, nothing will make them happy.

I think they make up what are called the second (or third?) standard deviation.

You could be right about that. However its possible that the savings quoted comes from imminent savings as a result of getting the 717's. Savings such as getting out of long term high water mark real estate bubble 50 seater leases, cancellation of engine replacements and heavy checks, etc. Even savings from the juniority virus (SJS) that every RFP gives management as they watch the piranhas tear themselves up for every pound of ground round they lob into the red frothy waters of the regional industry.

Even if the 750m number is correct, it could be savings next year that we would have spent over several years. Depends on when and how they account for it I guess.

I'm with gloop, how much savings can 3-16 airplanes in 0-6 months of revenue flying create?

The writer of that article is connecting incongruous pieces of information and calling it analysis, it is trash and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone who knows anything about this industry.

I disagree with Jerry that if we were outside Sect 6 that we would end up with a 717 rate different than what we have now. (But I do agree about the 79,999 others comment!)

We have a DC9 rate that is already in the contract, and the speed, weight, distance is almost identical to the current DC9. The "we could get the 88 rate" argument is flawed because the current 3.B.6 language doesn't allow DL pilots to refuse to fly the airplane if there is no negotiated rate. Thanks to C2K, now we have to fly it and negotiate a rate (we did in this PWA) and if that fails it goes to arbitration..... Not sure what anyone else thinks, but I bet it would be a tough sell to an arbitrator that a DC9-30 airframe with newer engines and cockpit that seats 110 pax is the equivalent of a 160 seat MD-90. The 25 seat variance between the 319/320 and 32 seat variance between the -700 and -800 would both be tossed out because of the common cockpit/category that those have.

Been thinking....if Delta were the Adams Family, what aircraft would be what character? I'm thinking that the Mad Dog HAS to be Uncle Fester....Mortisha is the A-330, she speaks french....Lurch is the 747....Is Pugsly the 9? A-320?

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/MadDogWhisperer/TheAddamsFamily02.jpg

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp2-41.png

Of course there is this one...

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/TEMP1-46.png

I think I have this right.

Start with the obvious,

7ER: Handsome, cocky, owns the world and really wants to be with the A330.

A330: Enjoys the trips, wants more 7ER time. Just can't figure out how to do it.

744: Think about it, stops to watch you go by. Some flat out stare. And really, who do you want to be seen with when you walk into a social setting? When people ask, what do you do, you want to say the 744.

764: You rarely see it, but you know they're making an A.

A320: Happy.

777: Solid. Boring. Money marker.

DC9: Smaller than the 88 but looks very similar.

MD88: I never study and I smile like I never study.

737: Like a maid, always there. Reliable. Frumpy.

I'm with gloop, how much savings can 3-16 airplanes in 0-6 months of revenue flying create?

The writer of that article is connecting incongruous pieces of information and calling it analysis, it is trash and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone who knows anything about this industry.

I disagree with Jerry that if we were outside Sect 6 that we would end up with a 717 rate different than what we have now. (But I do agree about the 79,999 others comment!)

We have a DC9 rate that is already in the contract, and the speed, weight, distance is almost identical to the current DC9. The "we could get the 88 rate" argument is flawed because the current 3.B.6 language doesn't allow DL pilots to refuse to fly the airplane if there is no negotiated rate. Thanks to C2K, now we have to fly it and negotiate a rate (we did in this PWA) and if that fails it goes to arbitration..... Not sure what anyone else thinks, but I bet it would be a tough sell to an arbitrator that a DC9-30 airframe with newer engines and cockpit that seats 110 pax is the equivalent of a 160 seat MD-90. The 25 seat variance between the 319/320 and 32 seat variance between the -700 and -800 would both be tossed out because of the common cockpit/category that those have.

I also would add to the bold that an arbitrator would say a DC9-30 = DC9-30 with new engines, so the DC9 rates (including -30) = 717 rates.

From wiki:

In early 1994 the MD-95 re-emerged bearing far more similarity to the DC-9-30. Indeed the aircraft's specification in terms of weight, dimensions, and fuel capacity are almost identical. The major changes included a fuselage "shrink" back to 119 ft 4 in (36.37 m) length (same as the DC-9-30), and the reversion to the original DC-9 wing of 93 ft 5 in (28.47 m) span. At the time of the redefinition, McDonnell Douglas said that it expected the MD-95 to grow into a family of aircraft with the capability of increased range and seating capacity.[4]

The MD-95 was developed to satisfy the market need to replace early DC-9 models, then approaching 30 years old. The MD-95 project was a complete overhaul of the system, going back to the original DC-9-30 design and reinventing it for modern transport with new engines, cockpit and other more modern systems.[5] Historically, aircraft shrinks have sold poorly, examples of such aircraft in addition to the MD-87 include the Boeing 747SP, Boeing 737-600, Airbus A318, and Airbus A340-200.

And did you know 200+ 50 seaters you hate will be leaving the fleet within the next 3 years? You're welcome.

Thanks Bill! :D

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp7-9.png

FTB.....I am thinking that Cousin Itt is more of the A320 variety...

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/MadDogWhisperer/Cousin-Itt-addams.jpg

Is this a shot of the 737-700 trying to take back flying from the Heavy RJ's?

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/MadDogWhisperer/thingwrestle.jpg

Can someone with the authority to do so, update the Delta profile to show the next contractual pay raise and change the guarantee? (and anything else that has changed with this last contract...)

FARNBOROUGH: SkyWest Airlines commits to 100 MRJs (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-skywest-airlines-commits-to-100-mrjs-374254/)
So Skywest has ordered 100 of these things that will seat 78 people in the smaller version and 86 in the larger. Trans States also has 50 orders and 50 options.
Does your new scope clause allow 76 seats or 78?
Skywest and trans states could be hoping to fly them for American but the deliveries are slated for 2017 so is this Skywest hoping scope is lifted to 86 seats in your 2015 contract?
Seems like Skywest and TSA are banking their entire futures on these things.

In europe, regionals already fly 190's (KLM Cityhopper) We have to stop this trend! Hire me and I will help!

FARNBOROUGH: SkyWest Airlines commits to 100 MRJs (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-skywest-airlines-commits-to-100-mrjs-374254/)
So Skywest has ordered 100 of these things that will seat 78 people in the smaller version and 86 in the larger. Trans States also has 50 orders and 50 options.
Does your new scope clause allow 76 seats or 78?
Skywest and trans states could be hoping to fly them for American but the deliveries are slated for 2017 so is this Skywest hoping scope is lifted to 86 seats in your 2015 contract?
Seems like Skywest and TSA are banking their entire futures on these things.

In europe, regionals already fly 190's (KLM Cityhopper) We have to stop this trend! Hire me and I will help!


Unfortunately some here see our contract as a scope gain. :(
I still remember Brad Holt saying "Deal me an ace!". Now mainline has given another ace to Brad and Chip-away Childs.

Unfortunately some here see our contract as a scope gain. :(
I still remember Brad Holt saying "Deal me an ace!". Now mainline has given another ace to Brad and Chip-away Childs.

We did make a scope gain. The "terms and conditions" of the DCI fleet plan are locked up and solid. There is no room for negotiation out of section 6 on hull count WHEN the 88 717s arrive. We control the business plan of the fleet and now it's the company's turn to expend negotiating capital changing the limits of DCI scope.

With that being said I think we all learned a valuable lesson through this last section 6 that many people vote yes just to pad their wallet. With these orders for MRJs coming in (unless they're just a show of force against Bombardier to get Bombardier to lower their prices) we'll have to immediately be ready to oppose their operation in our network or under our alliances. Th company may think they're smart enough to maneuver something like this over on us. Let's make sure we prove them wrong.

We did make a scope gain. The "terms and conditions" of the DCI fleet plan are locked up and solid. There is no room for negotiation out of section 6 on hull count WHEN the 88 717s arrive.

Right up until 2015 when you open your wallets again to trade more Scope for pay. Don't worry, it will be a another "win". Thank God I'll be retired :cool:

Right up until 2015 when you open your wallets again to trade more Scope for pay. Don't worry, it will be a another "win". Thank God I'll be retired :cool:

I think the MRJ has more than 76 seats, and we didn't gain any pay for an increase in that number. That number has not moved. Wikipedia says that plane is 70-90 seats. I suppose they could have a 76 seat version if they are within the scope limits.

FARNBOROUGH: SkyWest Airlines commits to 100 MRJs (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-skywest-airlines-commits-to-100-mrjs-374254/)
So Skywest has ordered 100 of these things that will seat 78 people in the smaller version and 86 in the larger. Trans States also has 50 orders and 50 options.
Does your new scope clause allow 76 seats or 78?
Skywest and trans states could be hoping to fly them for American but the deliveries are slated for 2017 so is this Skywest hoping scope is lifted to 86 seats in your 2015 contract?
Seems like Skywest and TSA are banking their entire futures on these things.

In europe, regionals already fly 190's (KLM Cityhopper) We have to stop this trend! Hire me and I will help!

http://www.standardconcessionsupply.com/i/2011%20Images/west_bend_3_qt_popcorn_bowl.jpg

Does anyone know how you get all the new manual option onto your ipad? I couldn't find any guidance on Deltanet.

Right up until 2015 when you open your wallets again to trade more Scope for pay. Don't worry, it will be a another "win". Thank God I'll be retired :cool:

I'm glad you'll be retired too. Congratulations. You've obviously done a terrific job your entire career not selling out on scope. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Does anyone know how you get all the new manual option onto your ipad? I couldn't find any guidance on Deltanet.

The registration link is under Automated Manuals and Bulletins. I think it has to register you and send you a link - once you have that you follow the instructions and then magically the manuals appear. It's a pretty non-standard iPad process.

FARNBOROUGH: SkyWest Airlines commits to 100 MRJs (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-skywest-airlines-commits-to-100-mrjs-374254/)
So Skywest has ordered 100 of these things that will seat 78 people in the smaller version and 86 in the larger. Trans States also has 50 orders and 50 options.
Does your new scope clause allow 76 seats or 78?
Skywest and trans states could be hoping to fly them for American but the deliveries are slated for 2017 so is this Skywest hoping scope is lifted to 86 seats in your 2015 contract?
Seems like Skywest and TSA are banking their entire futures on these things.

In europe, regionals already fly 190's (KLM Cityhopper) We have to stop this trend! Hire me and I will help!

Hold on. Doesn't the "RAH exemption" only exempt RAH from operating "other than permitted aircraft"? I don't have a reference but it seems to me that if SKYW(or anyone else except RAH) actually places an aircraft over 76 seats into service then they can no longer be a DCI carrier....

What am I missing?

Hold on. Doesn't the "RAH exemption" only exempt RAH from operating "other than permitted aircraft"? I don't have a reference but it seems to me that if SKYW(or anyone else except RAH) actually places an aircraft over 76 seats into service then they can no longer be a DCI carrier....

What am I missing?

That's what I thought.

Hold on. Doesn't the "RAH exemption" only exempt RAH from operating "other than permitted aircraft"? I don't have a reference but it seems to me that if SKYW(or anyone else except RAH) actually places an aircraft over 76 seats into service then they can no longer be a DCI carrier....

What am I missing?

Correct. Section 1.D.2.C is a good place to start.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp2-41.png

Of course there is this one...

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/TEMP1-46.png

I think I have this right.

Start with the obvious,

7ER: Handsome, cocky, owns the world and really wants to be with the A330.

A330: Enjoys the trips, wants more 7ER time. Just can't figure out how to do it.

744: Think about it, stops to watch you go by. Some flat out stare. And really, who do you want to be seen with when you walk into a social setting? When people ask, what do you do, you want to say the 744.

764: You rarely see it, but you know they're making an A.

A320: Happy.

777: Solid. Boring. Money marker.

DC9: Smaller than the 88 but looks very similar.

MD88: I never study and I smile like I never study.

737: Like a maid, always there. Reliable. Frumpy.
Marsha's the 747....It's always Marsha,Marsha,Marsha.

Hold on. Doesn't the "RAH exemption" only exempt RAH from operating "other than permitted aircraft"? I don't have a reference but it seems to me that if SKYW(or anyone else except RAH) actually places an aircraft over 76 seats into service then they can no longer be a DCI carrier....

What am I missing?

True.

If they fly them as 76 seat jets, they fall under scope cap limits. The carve out was just for RAH. Right now however according to the contract SKYW can not fly them for us unless they come in under MGW and 76 seats...

Look at this in a different view…SW announces a buy at Farnborough…this was obviously being worked well before the airshow and before/during our contract negotiations…was the 4th floor privy to this info, Yes…when are deliverers scheduled to begin?...2017, start of our next contract!

SW will fly these aircraft with reduced seats (76) vs. capacity for us (76+) or others in the short term?, Yes. SW will need aircraft to replace its loss of 50 seaters?, Yes. Can they be reconfigured for more seats?, Yes.

What happens during our next negotiations? I’m sure our next survey will overwhelmingly state no more scope give-up. Our union has set the precedent that they give-up scope.

Who cares about the new contract it is the next one that this will fall under.

Can you see us (and others) getting setup here?

Look at this in a different view…SW announces a buy at Farnborough…this was obviously being worked well before the airshow and before/during our contract negotiations…was the 4th floor privy to this info, Yes…when are deliverers scheduled to begin?...2017, start of our next contract!

SW will fly these aircraft with reduced seats (76) vs. capacity for us (76+) or others in the short term?, Yes. SW will need aircraft to replace its loss of 50 seaters?, Yes. Can they be reconfigured for more seats?, Yes.

What happens during our next negotiations? I’m sure our next survey will overwhelmingly state no more scope give-up. Our union has set the precedent that they give-up scope.

Who cares about the new contract it is the next one that this will fall under.

Can you see us (and others) getting setup here?

That is a big assumption but I can see where no matter what there is nothing any one organization can do despite the facts to make any pilot happy! So yes we will cave and give away everything next time.

Anything positive happening in life for any pilot?

That is a big assumption but I can see where no matter what there is nothing any one organization can do despite the facts to make any pilot happy! So yes we will cave and give away everything next time.

Anything positive happening in life for any pilot?

I'm plenty happy. There's lots of good for me.

We have a lot of time to deflect this BJRJ (Big Japanese RJ) thing. Education will be key. If the pilot group overwhelming opposes these airplanes then they will never wear the Delta name. If I owned SKYW stock I'd sell it. Either Skywest is going to get stuck paying for these airplanes to sit in a hangar or they're going to be forced to pay order cancellation fees.

In either case these aircraft will never wear the Delta livery. Period.

I'm glad you'll be retired too. Congratulations. You've obviously done a terrific job your entire career not selling out on scope. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Actually I vote NO on this TA because of Scope even though it is likely my last pay raise. Voted NO in 2006 over Scope as well. It's called Trade Unionism. Look it up.

I predict check-mate on Scope by the company in two moves. Let me know how it all works out for you.

I've changed my stance on scope. As long as

a) I get a raise on the next contract,
b) we cut out half the 50 seaters,
c) I'm told everything else is great, and
d) if I find anything questionable I'm assured it's a bird in the bush in the hand thing,

then they can up the cap on 76 seaters and add MRJs and keep the 70 seaters. I'm sure these MRJs will be super profitable and increase our profit sharing checks. Oh and throw in 16 773s and I'm so in.

I really just want to be on the winning side of a TA vote.


http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/zibzib200/gifs/1158655197698fs0.gif

Just kidding.

http://www.bossthesandwich.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/homer1.gif

Does anyone know how you get all the new manual option onto your ipad? I couldn't find any guidance on Deltanet.

Left side of the DeltaNet main page, under quarterly CQ button is the "Automated Manuals and Bulletins" button. That'll walk you through it.

Actually I vote NO on this TA because of Scope even though it is likely my last pay raise. Voted NO in 2006 over Scope as well. It's called Trade Unionism. Look it up.

I predict check-mate on Scope by the company in two moves. Let me know how it all works out for you.

Please - enjoy the early out then. It was negotiated at my expense.

I predict 76 seaters with Delta pilots in them in 2017.

I've changed my stance on scope. As long as

a) I get a raise on the next contract,
We better!
b) we cut out half the 50 seaters,
I think we would be better served to look at the "70's and 76's coming off of financial commitments" (49 by end of 2018).
1)Lowering the DCI cap by that many aircraft 76's, 70's or 50's(company choice).
Allowing the rest of the 50's to be swapped 2.5:1 for more 70's or 3:1 for more 76's.
2)Dropping the caps respectively (that would result in a DCI cap between 317-401).
3)The ratio would have to go up more than the present rise rate, it is too low IMHO
c) I'm told everything else is great, and
I'll tell you that if you want, then we can talk about Auburn Football!
d) if I find anything questionable I'm assured it's a bird in the bush in the hand thing,
We can call the MEC office, I'm sure they can assure you of whatever that is.:eek:

then they can up the cap on 76 seaters and add MRJs. I'm sure they'll be profitable and increase our profit sharing checks. Oh and throw in 16 773s and I'm so in.
I do NOT want to see any GTF or other "next-gen" powerplant at DCI and will direct my input appropriately.

I won't consider any widebodies in this, it has to be domestic flying... and I'm done swapping mainline jets for caps, they will be in the zone where they can retire whatever fleet they want in a timely fashion by that point. More 777's would be nice to see however.
I really just want to be on the winning side of a TA vote.
In this league we don't have winners and losers, only participants! :D

Please - enjoy the early out then. It was negotiated at my expense.

I predict 76 seaters with Delta pilots in them in 2017.

A guy on APC says Delta pilots will be flowing down to Compass to fly 76 seaters by 2017.

It MUST mean that Delta is about to furlough!!!!

Oh no!!!:D

Please - enjoy the early out then. It was negotiated at my expense.

I predict 76 seaters with Delta pilots in them in 2017.

2015 is the earliest I can go - I'd love to be gone now. I hope you are correct on the latter, although I heard there was a very cursory study done to validate this MEC's preconceived notion (shared by management) that it will never be economically viable to fly at the mainline. Of course with a sea change in the make up of this MEC it might be seriously evaluated.

A guy on APC says Delta pilots will be flowing down to Compass to fly 76 seaters by 2017.

It MUST mean that Delta is about to furlough!!!!

Oh no!!!:D


I read it on the Internet!

What more proof do you need??! :eek:

(psst...and I hear American might merge with US Air, but don't tell anyone!)

:D

Hold on. Doesn't the "RAH exemption" only exempt RAH from operating "other than permitted aircraft"? I don't have a reference but it seems to me that if SKYW(or anyone else except RAH) actually places an aircraft over 76 seats into service then they can no longer be a DCI carrier....

What am I missing?

Nothing if we actually hold the line and do not take some quid to allow the measly few extra thousand pounds in MGW.

Hey camel, I said only your nose.

If we hold the line I am pleased as I could ever be, but if we do not, well, exemptions to anything lead to more exemptions. All in the name of a sound business plan and too much cash to fix it. :D

2015 is the earliest I can go - I'd love to be gone now. I hope you are correct on the latter, although I heard there was a very cursory study done to validate this MEC's preconceived notion (shared by management) that it will never be economically viable to fly at the mainline. Of course with a sea change in the make up of this MEC it might be seriously evaluated.

Nearly 20 years ago (early 1993) I was displaced off my (bottom) MD88 Capt. seat when DAL sold their DC9's and all the more senior DC9 guys came to the 88. Then DAL gave all that DC9 flying to Com Air and ASA to fly with their brand new RJs. I called DALPA to ask What the Fark are they doing, giving OUR flying to CA and ASA to fly with JETS?? I ranted;

"WHY AREN'T WE FLYING THOSE JETS??!"

The answer I got from DALPA was, "You don't want to fly those little jets, Capt. would only pay $50/hr, and that's less than what the L1011 Engineers make! We CAN'T have Captains making LESS than engineers!"

We had just furloughed for the first time in the history of DAL, I said, "You're right, I don't want to fly it (I was displaced back to the 757 F/O seat) but I'll bet all those FURLOUGED guys would LOVE to fly it!"

7 years later (2000) I'm at In Command, with Leo the CEO speaking to our class, one of the guys asked about why we can't fly the RJ's at mainline. Leo's answer was, "We can't afford to have you fly them, even at their current pay rates, because we also pay you 30% override, in benefits..."

This was about a year before 9-11, and well before our 42% pay cuts and loss of pension. In bankruptcy I was sure we could finally wrangle back some of our outsourced flying, since our pay rates were reduced 42%, and that pesky 30% override was basically gone.

But...once again, DALPA's attitude was, "You don't want to fly those little jets." and again, we had guys out on furlough who would have LOVED to have been flying those little jets.

I don't know what DALPA's problem is, maybe it's arrogance, but a jet is a jet, and a job is a job. I see no reason why we shouldn't be flying those jets. If it says DELTA on the side, it should be flown by Delta Pilots...or so I would think.

It's too expensive to have 'mainline pilots' flying RJ's ???

Really??

What about the expense of having 8 different CEO's and management teams, for our 8 different DCC's?? And 8 different scheduling depts. and 8 MX depts. and 8 different training depts, etc.??

I think the only way to 'fix this' is if all 8 of our DCC's get together and file for Single Carrier Status, and get included in our contract and onto our SL.

But, would DALPA support that?

Nearly 20 years ago (early 1993) I was displaced off my (bottom) MD88 Capt. seat when DAL sold their DC9's and all the more senior DC9 guys came to the 88. Then DAL gave all that DC9 flying to Com Air and ASA to fly with their brand new RJs. I called DALPA to ask What the Fark are they doing, giving OUR flying to CA and ASA to fly with JETS?? I ranted;

"WHY AREN'T WE FLYING THOSE JETS??!"

The answer I got from DALPA was, "You don't want to fly those little jets, Capt. would only pay $50/hr, and that's less than what the L1011 Engineers make! We CAN'T have Captains making LESS than engineers!"

We had just furloughed for the first time in the history of DAL, I said, "You're right, I don't want to fly it (I was displaced back to the 757 F/O seat) but I'll bet all those FURLOUGED guys would LOVE to fly it!"

7 years later (2000) I'm at In Command, with Leo the CEO speaking to our class, one of the guys asked about why we can't fly the RJ's at mainline. Leo's answer was, "We can't afford to have you fly them, even at their current pay rates, because we also pay you 30% override, in benefits..."

This was about a year before 9-11, and well before our 42% pay cuts and loss of pension. In bankruptcy I was sure we could finally wrangle back some of our outsourced flying, since our pay rates were reduced 42%, and that pesky 30% override was basically gone.

But...once again, DALPA's attitude was, "You don't want to fly those little jets." and again, we had guys out on furlough who would have LOVED to have been flying those little jets.

I don't know what DALPA's problem is, maybe it's arrogance, but a jet is a jet, and a job is a job. I see no reason why we shouldn't be flying those jets. If it says DELTA on the side, it should be flown by Delta Pilots...or so I would think.

It's too expensive to have 'mainline pilots' flying RJ's ???

Really??

What about the expense of having 8 different CEO's and management teams, for our 8 different DCC's?? And 8 different scheduling depts. and 8 MX depts. and 8 different training depts, etc.??

I think the only way to 'fix this' is if all 8 of our DCC's get together and file for Single Carrier Status, and get included in our contract and onto our SL.

But, would DALPA support that?No, DALPA would not support that, it would create a conflict of interest since ALPA would have to sue its regional pilots to make sure Delta pilot's seniority is protected during any type of scope recapture scenario.

2015 is the earliest I can go - I'd love to be gone now. I hope you are correct on the latter, although I heard there was a very cursory study done to validate this MEC's preconceived notion (shared by management) that it will never be economically viable to fly at the mainline. Of course with a sea change in the make up of this MEC it might be seriously evaluated.

A in depth costing study was done. The numbers between the union and company were quite different however they showed even using best case numbers for us that a 70 seat operation could not be run at the mainline. When you start getting near 80 seats it becomes a he said she said discussion. That is how we have arrived at 76 seats. The company offered quite a bit if we would bump the number to 82 seats with a GW increase. It went down to the last hours of negotiations. I suspect now that number on the companies part was to allow Skywest to order the larger MRJ. They will not be able to do that with the current agreement and even Skywest management acknowledges that. The smaller jet complies with the current scope clause.

No, DALPA would not support that, it would create a conflict of interest since ALPA would have to sue its regional pilots to make sure Delta pilot's seniority is protected during any type of scope recapture scenario.

And I'll bet a whole bunch of Delta Pilots wouldn't support it either, unless they could be -guaranteed- no RJ pilots would go in front of them on our SL...

Nobody has mentioned this one yet...

FAA proposes $987,500 penalty for Delta - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48150770)

A in depth costing study was done. The numbers between the union and company were quite different however they showed even using best case numbers for us that a 70 seat operation could not be run at the mainline. When you start getting near 80 seats it becomes a he said she said discussion. That is how we have arrived at 76 seats. The company offered quite a bit if we would bump the number to 82 seats with a GW increase. It went down to the last hours of negotiations. I suspect now that number on the companies part was to allow Skywest to order the larger MRJ. They will not be able to do that with the current agreement and even Skywest management acknowledges that. The smaller jet complies with the current scope clause.
The "in depth" study did not include investment losses, cap ex write offs, crashes, additional managerial expenses or the cost borne by mainline (ie redundant management structure). The study also did not include DIP financing, the cost of litigation (Skywest & Mesa) and the cost of walking business to our competitors.

While I understand methodology which excludes "unexpected" costs, these are real costs of outsourcing none the less.

The political choice we make is to NOT rub management's nose in these "unexpected costs." Instead our political slant is to justify outsourcing.

Delta's outsourcing looks good on paper from a short term perspective. The longer view would reveal it has been a disaster for both labor and Delta, Inc.

Nobody has mentioned this one yet...

FAA proposes $987,500 penalty for Delta - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48150770)
That's because anything involving Ray LaHood leaves us speechless.

Not to be "political" but he can't be out of the DOT soon enough.

Nearly 20 years ago (early 1993) I was displaced off my (bottom) MD88 Capt. seat when DAL sold their DC9's and all the more senior DC9 guys came to the 88. Then DAL gave all that DC9 flying to Com Air and ASA to fly with their brand new RJs. I called DALPA to ask What the Fark are they doing, giving OUR flying to CA and ASA to fly with JETS?? I ranted;

"WHY AREN'T WE FLYING THOSE JETS??!"

The answer I got from DALPA was, "You don't want to fly those little jets, Capt. would only pay $50/hr, and that's less than what the L1011 Engineers make! We CAN'T have Captains making LESS than engineers!"

We had just furloughed for the first time in the history of DAL, I said, "You're right, I don't want to fly it (I was displaced back to the 757 F/O seat) but I'll bet all those FURLOUGED guys would LOVE to fly it!"

7 years later (2000) I'm at In Command, with Leo the CEO speaking to our class, one of the guys asked about why we can't fly the RJ's at mainline. Leo's answer was, "We can't afford to have you fly them, even at their current pay rates, because we also pay you 30% override, in benefits..."

This was about a year before 9-11, and well before our 42% pay cuts and loss of pension. In bankruptcy I was sure we could finally wrangle back some of our outsourced flying, since our pay rates were reduced 42%, and that pesky 30% override was basically gone.

But...once again, DALPA's attitude was, "You don't want to fly those little jets." and again, we had guys out on furlough who would have LOVED to have been flying those little jets.

I don't know what DALPA's problem is, maybe it's arrogance, but a jet is a jet, and a job is a job. I see no reason why we shouldn't be flying those jets. If it says DELTA on the side, it should be flown by Delta Pilots...or so I would think.

It's too expensive to have 'mainline pilots' flying RJ's ???

Really??

What about the expense of having 8 different CEO's and management teams, for our 8 different DCC's?? And 8 different scheduling depts. and 8 MX depts. and 8 different training depts, etc.??

I think the only way to 'fix this' is if all 8 of our DCC's get together and file for Single Carrier Status, and get included in our contract and onto our SL.

But, would DALPA support that?

Timbo,

I don't know you that well, but.....

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/NEWKNOW/imagesinternethigh5.jpg


And...

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/NEWKNOW/Dontleavemehanging.jpg


That is EXACTLY how I feel.

No, DALPA would not support that, it would create a conflict of interest since ALPA would have to sue its regional pilots to make sure Delta pilot's seniority is protected during any type of scope recapture scenario.


Renups or an agreed to sli remove that risk. Real question is why would th regional guys want it when DALPA and Rhen Dal pilots are still giving up career enhancing jets to DCI?

If there was a strategic vision with the scope modification we just made or PWA there would be a stick involved. As it stands it's a one time mod with a next time mod of the 50's and 70's on deck.

Nearly 20 years ago (early 1993) I was displaced off my (bottom) MD88 Capt. seat when DAL sold their DC9's and all the more senior DC9 guys came to the 88. Then DAL gave all that DC9 flying to Com Air and ASA to fly with their brand new RJs. I called DALPA to ask What the Fark are they doing, giving OUR flying to CA and ASA to fly with JETS?? I ranted;

"WHY AREN'T WE FLYING THOSE JETS??!"

The answer I got from DALPA was, "You don't want to fly those little jets, Capt. would only pay $50/hr, and that's less than what the L1011 Engineers make! We CAN'T have Captains making LESS than engineers!"

We had just furloughed for the first time in the history of DAL, I said, "You're right, I don't want to fly it (I was displaced back to the 757 F/O seat) but I'll bet all those FURLOUGED guys would LOVE to fly it!"

7 years later (2000) I'm at In Command, with Leo the CEO speaking to our class, one of the guys asked about why we can't fly the RJ's at mainline. Leo's answer was, "We can't afford to have you fly them, even at their current pay rates, because we also pay you 30% override, in benefits..."

This was about a year before 9-11, and well before our 42% pay cuts and loss of pension. In bankruptcy I was sure we could finally wrangle back some of our outsourced flying, since our pay rates were reduced 42%, and that pesky 30% override was basically gone.

But...once again, DALPA's attitude was, "You don't want to fly those little jets." and again, we had guys out on furlough who would have LOVED to have been flying those little jets.

I don't know what DALPA's problem is, maybe it's arrogance, but a jet is a jet, and a job is a job. I see no reason why we shouldn't be flying those jets. If it says DELTA on the side, it should be flown by Delta Pilots...or so I would think.

It's too expensive to have 'mainline pilots' flying RJ's ???

Really??

What about the expense of having 8 different CEO's and management teams, for our 8 different DCC's?? And 8 different scheduling depts. and 8 MX depts. and 8 different training depts, etc.??

I think the only way to 'fix this' is if all 8 of our DCC's get together and file for Single Carrier Status, and get included in our contract and onto our SL.

But, would DALPA support that?

Great post.

Why? Why would they when we pass agreements like the last one by almost 2/3rds without any real heavy lifting in that arena?

The solutions or possibilities are plentiful, but there is no need when we respond to the last even as favorably as we did.

The "in depth" study did not include investment losses, cap ex write offs, crashes, additional managerial expenses or the cost borne by mainline (ie redundant management structure). The study also did not include DIP financing, the cost of litigation (Skywest & Mesa) and the cost of walking business to our competitors.

While I understand methodology which excludes "unexpected" costs, these are real costs of outsourcing none the less.

The political choice we make is to NOT rub management's nose in these "unexpected costs." Instead our political slant is to justify outsourcing.

Delta's outsourcing looks good on paper from a short term perspective. The longer view would reveal it has been a disaster for both labor and Delta, Inc.


Well we all know it makes no business sense to have all those redudant costs, serving one mainline. The real reason all Mainline Management teams (except South West) have outsouced the RJ feed is, Whipsawing. They can keep the sub-contractors under bidding each other. ALPA allows it, even supports it, at least, I've never seen a plan from them to stop it.

Over the past 20 yeasrs, South West has proven you can fly mainline jets on short haul routes, and still make money, even with zero High Value Customers, sitting in zero First Class Seats.

There was a time when customer service mattered at Delta Air Lines, but from what I have seen, that ship left the dock about 12 years ago...when our In Command class asked Leo about the p!ss poor service our customers were getting from ASA and Com Air, he said, "Hey, we're no worse than any one else." His attitude was, We are going to do as little as possible, service wise, as long as we can fill the jet.

Well, that was then, but now we have to compete with Emirates and Singapore and lots of other new international carriers, who have brand new airplanes and young, hot F/A's, and oh yeah, most domestic customers still love South West's F/A's much more than ours. We get to hear it from our family and neighbors every day...

"Wow, your flight attendants are REALLY OLD!"

But if we could get some of those young hot RJ F/A's on our International trips...I might start buying dinner for the F/A's again! :D

Nobody has mentioned this one yet...

FAA proposes $987,500 penalty for Delta - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48150770)

I think that said the penalty can be reduced according to the article.

Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.

Renups or an agreed to sli remove that risk. Real question is why would th regional guys want it when DALPA and Rhen Dal pilots are still giving up career enhancing jets to DCI?

If there was a strategic vision with the scope modification we just made or PWA there would be a stick involved. As it stands it's a one time mod with a next time mod of the 50's and 70's on deck.

None of you guys seem to understand the part where 200 plus 50 seaters leave, and then the larger RJs cover for them. Even mainline planes are now starting to recapture or re-enter old 737-200 or DC9 routes, and the 88 717s haven't even arrived yet. Starting in SEP DC9s will go back to Asheville, Wilmington, and CHA. 319s will go to Roanoke. FAY will be upgraded to an MD88. All of those places were banished to all RJ service after 9-11, and they are starting to come back, even before we get a boatload of 717s. The key was to reduce the TOTAL number of outsourced jobs and RJs. The routes will still have to be covered.

Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.

"Ahhh...so it's a Money thing!" :D

(name that movie)

Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.
Who finances the airplane has nothing to do with who sits in a control seat.

(know you know this ... just sayin)

A in depth costing study was done. The numbers between the union and company were quite different however they showed even using best case numbers for us that a 70 seat operation could not be run at the mainline. When you start getting near 80 seats it becomes a he said she said discussion. That is how we have arrived at 76 seats. The company offered quite a bit if we would bump the number to 82 seats with a GW increase. It went down to the last hours of negotiations. I suspect now that number on the companies part was to allow Skywest to order the larger MRJ. They will not be able to do that with the current agreement and even Skywest management acknowledges that. The smaller jet complies with the current scope clause.

Exactly - if we allowed up to certificated seats and GW, eliminated route restrictions and redundant management and training functions it becomes feasible. I would like to actually see the parameters used and compared in the study, however I'm guessing its secret as is anything where we might legitimately question something.

Speaking of I asked one of my Reps what the base by base breakdown was on the TA vote and he said they got the numbers but the MEC Chairman made them confidential.

Really.

http://cdn.ghosttheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kim-Jong-Il-Team-America.jpg

Who finances the airplane has nothing to do with who sits in a control seat.

(know you know this ... just sayin)

Not saying it does. I'm saying this is DAL's biggest motivator, not us. As for us, why would ALPA or the company think outside the traditional modification box, when our approval through the memrat process does not indicate a need to do so?

Exactly - if we allowed up to certificated seats and GW, eliminated route restrictions and redundant management and training functions it becomes feasible. I would like to actually see the parameters used and compared in the study, however I'm guessing its secret as is anything where we might legitimately question something.

Speaking of I asked one of my Reps what the base by base breakdown was on the TA vote and he said they got the numbers but the MEC Chairman made them confidential.

Really.

http://cdn.ghosttheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kim-Jong-Il-Team-America.jpg

Yep, really. They know it and probably know vote percentages by base, seat, age et al, but it will not be published.

No, DALPA would not support that, it would create a conflict of interest since ALPA would have to sue its regional pilots to make sure Delta pilot's seniority is protected during any type of scope recapture scenario.

Exactly. Better to take it back unilaterally than to give regional airlines even a snowball's chance at greater than a staple. There was a window of opportunity but its closed and nailed shut. That ship has sailed. We now have to fix this ourselves. I prefer quickly by cutting the beast's head off, but if we have to go the slow route of choking off the beast's growth and starving it to death over several contracts, I'm fine with that as well.

Nobody has mentioned this one yet...

FAA proposes $987,500 penalty for Delta - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48150770)

We make more than that in profit before lunchtime in one day. Not to mention it'll probably get reduced significantly anyway.

The "in depth" study did not include investment losses, cap ex write offs, crashes, additional managerial expenses or the cost borne by mainline (ie redundant management structure). The study also did not include DIP financing, the cost of litigation (Skywest & Mesa) and the cost of walking business to our competitors.

While I understand methodology which excludes "unexpected" costs, these are real costs of outsourcing none the less.

The political choice we make is to NOT rub management's nose in these "unexpected costs." Instead our political slant is to justify outsourcing.

Delta's outsourcing looks good on paper from a short term perspective. The longer view would reveal it has been a disaster for both labor and Delta, Inc.

That puts the sweet spot of the bat on it right there. I'd also add that the same myopic thinking is responsibile for endless shrinkage (capacity dicipline) which only funds the endless growth mode of the ULCCs that we will have to deal with later on anyway when they are bigger and stronger than they are now. Typical B school thinkin in the era of quarterly bonus mongering management.

Nobody has mentioned this one yet...

FAA proposes $987,500 penalty for Delta - Travel - News - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48150770)

$1 million in fines for a nose cone chip and a burned out dome light? YGBSM.

"Ahhh...so it's a Money thing!" :D

(name that movie)


I think its actually "Ahh...so it's a profit thing! That takes the pressure right off!" But anyway, The Jerk.

Quick bidding question on bidding reserve.

If I have CQ will those be counted towards my 18 days on duty?

Quick bidding question on bidding reserve.

If I have CQ will those be counted towards my 18 days on duty?

Yes and CQ will bump your RAW score once completed.

Don't yall forget to bid.

Yes and CQ will bump your RAW score once completed.


Thanks for the help.

I think its actually "Ahh...so it's a profit thing! That takes the pressure right off!" But anyway, The Jerk.

Correct! I looked all over You Tube for a video clip of that scene but couldn't find one. It's been about 20 years since I saw the movie, thus the misquote, but still one of my favorites!

"He hates these cans! Stay away from these cans!" :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcwz8-EfFYE&feature=related

Yes and CQ will bump your RAW score once completed.

Any idea how much RAW CQ is worth?

Good news on mainline upgauging:

AVL: DC-9-50 (Sept 2012)
CHA: DC-9-50 (Sept 2012
ROA: A319 (Sept 2012)
TRI: DC-9-50 (Sept 2012)
ILM: DC-9-50 (October 2012) (ILM goes from 6x CRJ to 4x CRJ, 1x CR7, 1x CR9 in Sept, and to 4x CRJ, 1x CR7, 1x D95 in Oct)

Additional ATL upgauging:
GSO: Going from: 4x CRJ, 1x CR7, 2x D95, 2x M88, 73W To: 1x CRJ, 1x CR7, 6x M88
FAY: DC-9-50 upgauged to MD88
MOB: Going from 7x CRJ, 1x A319, 1x MD88; To: 6x CRJ, 1x A319, 2x DC-9-50

Some of our current 737 FOs will be 717 Capts then, making an extra $70 an hour. How much of a raise is that? 30 MD90s will replace the 17 current DC9-50s, and by the end of 2015 we will have 88 717s that will pay $195 an hour for the Capt by then. Say it won't happen. SAY IT!!!!! (in Van Damme voice during Kumite ending in the movie "Bloodsport")

Say 2% loss from reduced profit sharing, so no, it's not 20%. Water under the bridge, but you brought it up. It passed, we're moving on, but don't rewrite history.

Do we know yet which DCI carriers will be getting the 70 76-seaters?

I'd assume it wouldn't be an E-Jet operator so that takes out Shuttle and Compass. Leaves Skywest/ASA, Comair, Pinnacle and GoJet?

Do we know yet which DCI carriers will be getting the 70 76-seaters?

I'd assume it wouldn't be an E-Jet operator so that takes out Shuttle and Compass. Leaves Skywest/ASA, Comair, Pinnacle and GoJet?

I'm pretty sure SkyWest showed their cards today and they won't be a DCI operator in 2017...

I'd imagine SkyWest will now provide more money for Parker to help bankroll the USAirways AMR tie-up in exchange for the lions share of the Jumbo RJ outsourcing at the combined carrier...

Cheers
George

Nevermind.. HTML challenged.

In either case these aircraft will never wear the Delta livery. Period.

I'd bet you $130 that you're wrong, but I don't want to get on the wrong side of T. However...

IF... this airplane is actually certified, and

IF... SKW actually takes delivery of it, and

IF... Delta wants it to be flown at the connection level.

Then, you will see those aircraft on a ramp near you, painted in Delta colors, flying our passengers. Unless, of course, ALPA steps up and... well, nevermind....

We make more than that in profit before lunchtime in one day. Not to mention it'll probably get reduced significantly anyway.

Doesn't make it any less of an onerous abuse of bureaucratic power.

Doesn't make it any less of an onerous abuse of bureaucratic power.

Give an inch and they'll take a mile. If an airline is letting these "little things" go, where else are they cutting corners?

Say 2% loss from reduced profit sharing, so no, it's not 20%. Water under the bridge, but you brought it up. It passed, we're moving on, but don't rewrite history.

Profit sharing rises to 20% if DL makes over $2.5 billion per year. We go from 15% to 20% for the pilots.

Profit sharing rises to 20% if DL makes over $2.5 billion per year. We go from 15% to 20% for the pilots.

of the amount over $2.5 billion.

I'm pretty sure SkyWest showed their cards today and they won't be a DCI operator in 2017...

I'd imagine SkyWest will now provide more money for Parker to help bankroll the USAirways AMR tie-up in exchange for the lions share of the Jumbo RJ outsourcing at the combined carrier...

Cheers
George

Well, I have a couple of thinking thoughts.

Now we see what the problem with the C-Series is. They didn't design an E75 size variant. They did an Apple and built the product they wanted but forgot the part where the product still has to be something people would buy. If there was a 70-95 seat version of the C-Series I bet Skywest would've bought it.

See inho if youre going to design a jet like the C-Series today you need to design it as a scope buster. An airplane that economically still fits inside a scope clause like the MRJ, E75 and CR9 but at the drop of a hat it can sit so many more. Then build a 130 seat version of the same plane. That'd give you a distinc advantage over any A&B offering.

Now the MRJ can pull that scope clause trick, Embraer can still do it too, but ot sure if Bombardier can or not. Kind of hope not because I'd love for their not to be a question as to where the super cool C-Series belongs.

I think we're going to miss when RJs were just 50 seaters.

On the news front, only a few over 100 so far for the early out, 5500 series 75's will start going to the desert in the fall. Possible interviews of new hires in late fall early winter, with hiring in early 13.

On the news front, only a few over 100 so far for the early out, 5500 series 75's will start going to the desert in the fall. Possible interviews of new hires in late fall early winter, with hiring in early 13.

Thanks for the update.

Scope buster = an RJ that sits more than the scope clause allows but can still economically fly within the scope clause limits patiently awaiting for more seats to be allowed.

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?

I'm pretty sure SkyWest showed their cards today and they won't be a DCI operator in 2017...

I'd imagine SkyWest will now provide more money for Parker to help bankroll the USAirways AMR tie-up in exchange for the lions share of the Jumbo RJ outsourcing at the combined carrier...

Cheers
George

Sorry George i dont see how MRJs remove Skyw from dci? Its a cr9/e175 size airplane with geared turbofans and less range. They'll put 76 seats on it and it will probably be the staple of rj feed in the 20's.

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?

We raised the ALV. Come on man, everybody knows that!:) Good news is we can earn more $ by flying more :rolleyes:

I'd bet you $130 that you're wrong, but I don't want to get on the wrong side of T. However...

IF... this airplane is actually certified, and

IF... SKW actually takes delivery of it, and

IF... Delta wants it to be flown at the connection level.

Then, you will see those aircraft on a ramp near you, painted in Delta colors, flying our passengers. Unless, of course, ALPA steps up and... well, nevermind....

You're on man. I'll pay up too. $130 it is.

I agree that SkyW has tipped their hand. They can't be that blind. I mean if they want to buy a 76 seat model, and use it to replace CRJ-900s, then fine. I can spend $130 on that.

Pinnacle, IMHO, will be the windfall candidate for the new 900s. With DAL management firmly in control of their costs, there's no reason to even need a whipsaw. "Do it for this, or else". I don't see why anyone would even question that. We all know that they treat us the same way sometimes. The PNCL Creditors committee will extract maximum return with the most flying - and they will posture PNCL to get the most bang for their investment dollar.

We need some quotes from Airplane! See a broad to get dat booty yak em...

On the news front, only a few over 100 so far for the early out, 5500 series 75's will start going to the desert in the fall. Possible interviews of new hires in late fall early winter, with hiring in early 13.

Those 5500 series are oolllddd. Like almost as old as the DC-9s old.

We raised the ALV. Come on man, everybody knows that!:) Good news is we can earn more $ by flying more :rolleyes:

I'm earning more for flying the same. No need for me to stretch my food dollar.

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?

The only thing official mentioned we may hire as early as fourth quarter this year if the TA passes. It passed so we may hire this year.

Yep, really. They know it and probably know vote percentages by base, seat, age et al, but it will not be published.

You know, I almost hate to say it...but it might be time for me to send in a card......

Very disappointed in my unions actions.

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?
Never heard hiring in 2012, did hear gearing up for hiring late 2012 with hiring starting late 1st quarter 2013.

The only thing official mentioned we may hire as early as fourth quarter this year if the TA passes. It passed so we may hire this year.

Oh I know. I want to poke because some said the we could begin hiring process as early as as the last quarter of the year as, see, the 717s will require us to hire this year. All growth! All growth!

You know, I almost hate to say it...but it might be time for me to send in a card......

Very disappointed in my unions actions.

I think the decision to release or not release the numbers and to what detail, would need to come from the MEC and they do not meet until August.

Personally, I don't see this as time critical and as I understand it, they have only been briefed on the base percentages and nothing else. The rest of the brief would come at the August meeting.

Of course if the chairman decided to publish the numbers without direction and it happened to make certain reps look bad, there would be an outcry by the usual suspects trashing him.

The beauty of this board is that you certainly can have it both ways.

Oh I know. I want to poke because some said the we could begin hiring process as early as as the last quarter of the year as, see, the 717s will require us to hire this year. All growth! All growth!




I voted no. I never bought into the sales job that 70 more large rj's is good for us.

I voted no. I never bought into the sales job that 70 more large rj's is good for us.

Me too. But go look at the MRJ thread, we evidently just don't get it. :D

...Pinnacle, IMHO, will be the windfall candidate for the new 900s. With DAL management firmly in control of their costs, there's no reason to even need a whipsaw. "Do it for this, or else". I don't see why anyone would even question that...

Do you see a major difference between Pinnacle 2012 and Comair 2007? We know how that one turned out, and "windfall" does not describe what Delta did with Comair.

United Airlines is poised to buy at least 100 new Boeing 737 airplanes in a mammoth deal that could eventually be worth well over $9 Billion. The deal will be announced Thursday morning at United Airlines headquarters in Chicago.:(

I'm earning more for flying the same. No need for me to stretch my food dollar.

Me too.. But Doug WAS right however. If you want to earn even MORE, you can fly more hours.. sort of..

I have become addicted to The Big Bang Theory.

Sheldon rocks!

But scientifically speaking, photos of Penny elicit a much more interesting response.


http://juantadeo.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/kaley-cuoco-1.jpg

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?

You're right.. We got taken to the woodshed.:rolleyes:

Should've voted no.

Oh I know. I want to poke because some said the we could begin hiring process as early as as the last quarter of the year as, see, the 717s will require us to hire this year. All growth! All growth!




No contract can guarantee growth. None. You know this, but like to continue to "poke". It is juvenile.

United Airlines is poised to buy at least 100 new Boeing 737 airplanes in a mammoth deal that could eventually be worth well over $9 Billion. The deal will be announced Thursday morning at United Airlines headquarters in Chicago.:(

And.......?

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?


It went away 'cause you are getting some FATTIES (Former AirTranies) :eek:

C9

It went away 'cause you are getting some FATTIES (Former AirTranies) :eek:

C9

Really? do tell.

It went away 'cause you are getting some FATTIES (Former AirTranies) :eek:

C9

So you mean they're quitting SWA and putting in their app to Delta? I'm pretty sure that would be the only way we'll have "FATTIES" here (insert F/A anecdote here).

You used a :eek: ... did you mean to use a ;)?

Any guesses on how much RAW value CQ in ATL is worth + 2 deadheads there and back?

So you mean they're quitting SWA and putting in their app to Delta? I'm pretty sure that would be the only way we'll have "FATTIES" here (insert F/A anecdote here).

You used a :eek: ... did you mean to use a ;)?

Just a rumor at this point and...no app req'd. I think Whackmaster is leading the charge though :D

C9

Any guesses on how much RAW value CQ in ATL is worth + 2 deadheads there and back?

12 points? 15 on the outside?

Well, I have a couple of thinking thoughts.

Now we see what the problem with the C-Series is. They didn't design an E75 size variant. They did an Apple and built the product they wanted but forgot the part where the product still has to be something people would buy. If there was a 70-95 seat version of the C-Series I bet Skywest would've bought it.

See inho if youre going to design a jet like the C-Series today you need to design it as a scope buster. An airplane that economically still fits inside a scope clause like the MRJ, E75 and CR9 but at the drop of a hat it can sit so many more. Then build a 130 seat version of the same plane. That'd give you a distinc advantage over any A&B offering.

Now the MRJ can pull that scope clause trick, Embraer can still do it too, but ot sure if Bombardier can or not. Kind of hope not because I'd love for their not to be a question as to where the super cool C-Series belongs.

I think we're going to miss when RJs were just 50 seaters.

Why buy the cow (MRJ) when you already have the milk (CRJ900)?

The MRJ will most likely have right around 80 seats in it to be cost effective, that puts it outside the current DAL PWA but right smack in the hear of the 2 deals APA made with AMR and USAir...

As for the C-Series, it's expensive.
With fewer than 100 seats the C-series simply doesn't have a viable business case.

Cheers
George

Just a rumor at this point and...no app req'd. I think Whackmaster is leading the charge though :D

C9

Well not exactly leading a charge. I didn't know there was a rumor floating around about it still. Am I missing something?

What happened to hiring in 2012 for the 717?

Since the first few 717's won't even arrive until August 2013, I doubt "entry level pilots" will be training for them prior to the Jul.-Oct. 2013 time frame.

I was under the impression that the need hire in late 2012 was to:
1) provide cushion for the start continuous training forthe 737's that start to arrive in early 2013,
2)the RMA program and associated backfill,
3)and the increase in staffing required for the VAC/TRNG credit that go into effect in 2013.

Just talked to a CPO type and he stated so far about 100 guys, mostly FNWA, have signed up for the early out. But, we're not even at the half way point this month, and he said many are probably waiting until the last moment, still thinking about it.

Just talked to a CPO type and he stated so far about 100 guys, mostly FNWA, have signed up for the early out. But, we're not even at the half way point this month, and he said many are probably waiting until the last moment, still thinking about it.

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?

The ALPA r&i guy says that 10% of applicants typically pull their papers at the last minute. His guess was about 270 would take the deal in the end.

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?

More people pull their papers last minute than put them in.

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?

The downside of this early out is that it is by category / number allowed to leave in category AND seniority.

IOW, if the 74A's are capped at 25 and 26 74A's put in their papers, boom the program is over and 25 guys retired early.

That said, I think it will make it down to whatever seniority meets the requirements.

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?


The real question here is, how many of those early outs is the company going to REPLACE??

In the last early out program, I think the final number was about 182(?), yet how many of those positions were replaced in later A/E's?

I don't recall seeing much back filling afterwards.

And.......?

Just a tidbit of info and keeping a abrest of our #1 competitor

I've always heard that if American tried to merge with Alaska, Delta would push a merger with Alaska. AA is trying, but AS said no apparently.

Alaska Air responds to American merger talk - Portland Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/news/2012/07/11/alaska-air-responds-to-american-merger.html)

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?

There were around 192 guys who applied, with around 30 applicants withdrawing their application.

The downside of this early out is that it is by category / number allowed to leave in category AND seniority.

IOW, if the 74A's are capped at 25 and 26 74A's put in their papers, boom the program is over and 25 guys retired early.

That said, I think it will make it down to whatever seniority meets the requirements.

I don't think you are correct. If they are offering 25 retirements on the 744 and 26 want it, only 25 744 pilots get to go and then they move on to the 777, 767 etc. If you are senior in your category, even the DC-9, you could get in on the deal.

I don't think you are correct. If they are offering 25 retirements on the 744 and 26 want it, only 25 744 pilots get to go and then they move on to the 777, 767 etc. If you are senior in your category, even the DC-9, you could get in on the deal.

I asked, did you?

I don't think you are correct. If they are offering 25 retirements on the 744 and 26 want it, only 25 744 pilots get to go and then they move on to the 777, 767 etc. If you are senior in your category, even the DC-9, you could get in on the deal.

If they only offer 25 744 slots then no pilot in another category can retire unless he is senior to the 25th pilot on the 747.

I don't think you are correct. If they are offering 25 retirements on the 744 and 26 want it, only 25 744 pilots get to go and then they move on to the 777, 767 etc. If you are senior in your category, even the DC-9, you could get in on the deal.

Scambo is correct. If anyone who wants to take the package is denied due to "operational requirements", no one junior to that person will be allowed to take the package.

An update to a story we previously brought you:

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/sexy-burned-bra-61.jpg?w=500

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/sexy-burned-bra-61.jpg?w=500

Number one, excellent photographic composure. The lighting and temperature are just right to bring out the details.

Number two, what the heck kind of jeanie pants are those?

Number three, I'm OK with the glitter legs and spotted socks, but that carpet may be a dealbreaker.

Number four, what does this have to do with taking a package? :D

If they only offer 25 744 slots then no pilot in another category can retire unless he is senior to the 25th pilot on the 747.

They are overstaffed by more than that. 25 would require no training.

Anyone remember the last early out?

How many took it?

Did most pilots drop papers at the last minute in that one also?

How many backed out during the "two-week window"?


Just over 180 after the opt out period. Suspect the AE will not be out until the second half of Aug after the "Opt Out" period is over.

An update to a story we previously brought you:

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/sexy-burned-bra-61.jpg?w=500

OK Jesse, two things;

Who is she?

Why does she keep staring at me...:eek:

She seems to have fallen....is no one going to help her?

Things seems to be a little slow, today.....here's an early merger era one...

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/MadDogWhisperer/NorthvsSouth.jpg

Just a tidbit of info and keeping a abrest of our #1 competitor

At best, I would say that they're our number three competitor, after the Star Alliance and One World.

Youtube Viral Video... Chk
Hot girl.................... Chk CF
Fishing.................... Chk
Hot Girl Fishing......... Chk
Surprise on the line.... Chk CF

thats everything you need for fun...

The one that got away! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcuYjDR2tSg&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

CVG767A -- I have to ask about that avatar pic of yours. Where was that and what's the story?

Philly

Off topic question: Saw an article on DL net about increasing 401K contributions with July raises. Anyway, it talked about a company match of up to 5%. Is that just for employees other than pilots??? Just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table.

CVG767A -- I have to ask about that avatar pic of yours. Where was that and what's the story?

Philly

It was taken at the Keys Fishery in Marathon, FL. They apparently weren't happy with the treatment that they got from Delta when there was a problem with a seafood shipment to Asia.

I always make a point of wearing something with a Delta logo when I eat there.

Off topic question: Saw an article on DL net about increasing 401K contributions with July raises. Anyway, it talked about a company match of up to 5%. Is that just for employees other than pilots??? Just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table.

You're not leaving any money on the table. The non-contract employees get 2% as a company contribution to their Savings Plan, and can get up to a 5% match on their own voluntary contributions to the Savings Plan. That gives them a total potential DC of 7%.

It was taken at the Keys Fishery in Marathon, FL. They apparently weren't happy with the treatment that they got from Delta when there was a problem with a seafood shipment to Asia.

I always make a point of wearing something with a Delta logo when I eat there.


I knew someone would find a good use for the hat!

Off topic question: Saw an article on DL net about increasing 401K contributions with July raises. Anyway, it talked about a company match of up to 5%. Is that just for employees other than pilots??? Just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table.

We are contract employees. This does not mean us.

Off topic question: Saw an article on DL net about increasing 401K contributions with July raises. Anyway, it talked about a company match of up to 5%. Is that just for employees other than pilots??? Just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table.

It is for non pilots. Employees other then pilots had their retirement plan frozen. They had no retirement plan for several years after that. The company then came up with a replacement plan where they match up to 5 percent of a employees contributions. That is the only retirement for non contract employees going forward.

Thanks. That's what I thought, but wanted to verify.

There was a time you could contribute to the Family Care program and the Co. matched some part. It was a good hedge. Is it gone now?

There was a time you could contribute to the Family Care program and the Co. matched some part. It was a good hedge. Is it gone now?

You can still contribute. The match was changed to a company contribution, and is no longer dependent on your contribution.

Here's a new one...anybody ever seen this message on icrew? Here's what it says when I tried to pull up today's trip coverage:

TOO MANY TRIPS TO DISPLAY FOR DATE SPECIFIED FOR DAILY TRIP COVERAGE PLEASE CONTACT INFORMATION SERVICES

What is Information Services?

Here's a new one...anybody ever seen this message on icrew? Here's what it says when I tried to pull up today's trip coverage:

TOO MANY TRIPS TO DISPLAY FOR DATE SPECIFIED FOR DAILY TRIP COVERAGE PLEASE CONTACT INFORMATION SERVICES

What is Information Services?

Delta Technologies woul be my guess. What equipment and base?

Here's a new one...anybody ever seen this message on icrew? Here's what it says when I tried to pull up today's trip coverage:

TOO MANY TRIPS TO DISPLAY FOR DATE SPECIFIED FOR DAILY TRIP COVERAGE PLEASE CONTACT INFORMATION SERVICES

What is Information Services?

Never seen that, but then again, they are doing upgrades to the IT backbone to display all of the extra info on the "Covered" list. It may be transient.

Here's a new one...anybody ever seen this message on icrew? Here's what it says when I tried to pull up today's trip coverage:

TOO MANY TRIPS TO DISPLAY FOR DATE SPECIFIED FOR DAILY TRIP COVERAGE PLEASE CONTACT INFORMATION SERVICES

What is Information Services?
Just a guess, but I think it shows that when they are running the bids for next month. I had the same issue for about 10 minutes earlier, but it's working fine now. Since the daily trip coverage page has changed recently and now shows all trip awards (swaps with the pot, white slips more than 1 day out), when they run the bids for your category and all the trips initially get awarded, it's probably too much input for the system to handle for display.

Just a guess, but I think it shows that when they are running the bids for next month. I had the same issue for about 10 minutes earlier, but it's working fine now. Since the daily trip coverage page has changed recently and now shows all trip awards (swaps with the pot, white slips more than 1 day out), when they run the bids for your category and all the trips initially get awarded, it's probably too much input for the system to handle for display.


Gotcha - thanks.

Sinca - MD88 A ATL

The Aug A's are out if you back door it.

The Aug A's are out if you back door it.

I bet it's all out by the end of the day, it's friday after all.

I bet it's all out by the end of the day, it's friday after all.

Haha. Good point. Hope so.

Here's a new one...anybody ever seen this message on icrew? Here's what it says when I tried to pull up today's trip coverage:

TOO MANY TRIPS TO DISPLAY FOR DATE SPECIFIED FOR DAILY TRIP COVERAGE PLEASE CONTACT INFORMATION SERVICES

What is Information Services?

I had just looked at open time about 2 minutes earlier, and you could see the trips that had been awarded for next month.. so far... I logged off and back on, and got that same message. I guess they were working my category, and then the calculator started blinking 9s and shut down.

So what's up with all the construction at the old island at DFW? Someone on the Dalpa forum posted a pic. Pic includes construction equipment, fences, jet bridges...... Inquiring minds want to know.

Just over 180 after the opt out period. Suspect the AE will not be out until the second half of Aug after the "Opt Out" period is over.

180'ish is the consensus, that sounds like what I remember.

I agree AE after the mid-Aug. deadline.

Didn't we hire about 180 after the last early out? (Not saying there is correlation or causality...)

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/MadDogWhisperer/NorthvsSouth.jpg

Why is the one on the bottom left wearing a hat?:D

So what's up with all the construction at the old island at DFW? Someone on the Dalpa forum posted a pic. Pic includes construction equipment, fences, jet bridges...... Inquiring minds want to know.

Parking for 717s? That area was called "Gilligan's Island" when ASA was there, right? Maybe RJ gates there and we get the full terminal again? That would go senior if it ever happened.

Parking for 717s? That area was called "Gilligan's Island" when ASA was there, right? Maybe RJ gates there and we get the full terminal again?

717 parking? Now you're just being unrealistic.

So what's up with all the construction at the old island at DFW? Someone on the Dalpa forum posted a pic. Pic includes construction equipment, fences, jet bridges...... Inquiring minds want to know.

If you are referring to the satellite terminal off of the E concourse, that is where Spirit if running their new DFW operation.

If you are referring to the satellite terminal off of the E concourse, that is where Spirit if running their new DFW operation.

It may be for spirit, they have had big expansion at Dfw, it's now their second largest hub

Parking for 717s? That area was called "Gilligan's Island" when ASA was there, right? Maybe RJ gates there and we get the full terminal again? That would go senior if it ever happened.


Gilligan's Island was built for Delta, mainline, long before ASA was there! It was built back in the early 90's, to accomodate the 'new' fleet of MD88's, back when the DFW base was nearly as large as ATL. At one time, DFW had nearly every category based there, from International L10-11's flying to Frankfurt and London, DC8's, 767/757's, 727's, MD 88's, and 737's. I think there were about 2,500 Delta pilots based there at the peak.

Then Mo'Ron decided to run away from DFW...rather than compete with AA. :rolleyes:

And, in another Mo'Ron moment of brilliance, he passed on buying Pan Am's South American ops out of MIA...opting instead for the trans atlantic routes, which put PA into bankrutptcy in the first place. Shortly after Mo'Ron bought Pan Am, Delta started losing money, big time! At one point I think I heard we were losing $3Million...PER DAY!

BRILLIANT! And, he's still getting his Delta Retirement money!

The Aug A's are out if you back door it.

How do you back door it? I didn't even see a link yet for Aug bid awards.

How do you back door it? I didn't even see a link yet for Aug bid awards.


I was just on DLNet, all the Aug Capt.s are posted now. In the future, if you want to 'back door it', you have to click on another month, ie, for August, Aug won't be there yet, so you click on July wide reports, (or June or May), when that window opens, you go up to the headder bar, and in the address line, where it says JUL/jul you simply replace that with AUG/aug and hit enter.

If the bids are done but not yet posted, that will let you in, through the back door...not that there's anything wrong with coming in the back door, the dirt road, the Hershey Highway...:eek: :D

The last 6mo. or so they have been getting them run and posted much faster than say, two years ago. Now a days, they are all done and posted to DL Net, both seats, by the 14th. I'm sure Dec. and Jan will take longer, as everyone is trying to get off for Xmas and New Years Eve, so there is much more unstacking that needs to be done.

The real reason they are getting done much faster than say, 5 years ago, is because we are very much overstaffed in most catergories, so they have adequate reserve coverage for lots of stacked up open time. If/when that changes, (through attrition) I expect the runs will take longer than they do today, as the computer will have to work harder to assign all the open time without violating the ROE's and MU's.

IIRC, DL had about 35% of the DFW O&D market when Allen pulled up stakes and left. Stagnant, but respectable and DFW area would have loved the competition to AA.

Never understood why DL didn't buy up EA, ex-BN, South American route authority. The BN were just counting seniority numbers and how'd they fit into EA, when the EA MEC said something like, "who said we were taking pilots?". So much for the milk of pilot's kibdness.

GF

US Airways becomes AMR creditor - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-07-12/us-airways-becomes-amr-creditor)

this is related to the SkyWest MRJ order....


Cheers
George

Had a high up maintenance guy on the jumpseat the other day, and he said they were buying md-80's from AA for spare parts for our 88's. I asked if that meant we weren't going to be parking any anytime soon, and he said if we were parking 88's we would use them for spare parts.

It was taken at the Keys Fishery in Marathon, FL. They apparently weren't happy with the treatment that they got from Delta when there was a problem with a seafood shipment to Asia.

I always make a point of wearing something with a Delta logo when I eat there.

Hope ur senior to me when they poison your food. Just kidding. Pretty bold inthat you are eating there. Never know what the cook is doing to your food.

I was just on DLNet, all the Aug Capt.s are posted now. In the future, if you want to 'back door it', you have to click on another month, ie, for August, Aug won't be there yet, so you click on July wide reports, (or June or May), when that window opens, you go up to the headder bar, and in the address line, where it says JUL/jul you simply replace that with AUG/aug and hit enter.

If the bids are done but not yet posted, that will let you in, through the back door...not that there's anything wrong with coming in the back door, the dirt road, the Hershey Highway...:eek: :D

The last 6mo. or so they have been getting them run and posted much faster than say, two years ago. Now a days, they are all done and posted to DL Net, both seats, by the 14th. I'm sure Dec. and Jan will take longer, as everyone is trying to get off for Xmas and New Years Eve, so there is much more unstacking that needs to be done.

The real reason they are getting done much faster than say, 5 years ago, is because we are very much overstaffed in most catergories, so they have adequate reserve coverage for lots of stacked up open time. If/when that changes, (through attrition) I expect the runs will take longer than they do today, as the computer will have to work harder to assign all the open time without violating the ROE's and MU's.
Back door ain't workin today. I keep getting prompted for a username and password.

Back door ain't workin today. I keep getting prompted for a username and password.

Its working for me. B's aren't out yet though.

In fact, just checked, and there is already a link for Aug Awards. A's only.

Back door ain't workin today. I keep getting prompted for a username and password.

I'm thinking there's a miscomunication somewhere, sounds like you may not be putting the "AUG/aug" in the right spot, but when I have done the back door, I've never gotten a request for a username, etc.

But as Buzz said, they have updated DL Net so the AUG page is up now, so all you have to do is wait until they get the rest of the B's posted. The back door thing is only useful -before- they have loaded the next mo.'s page to DL Net.

What happens is, they keep running all the catagories until they are done, but they don't stop doing runs to post the completed ones. At the end of the day (which could be as late as 11pm sometimes) or if there is a break in the action, (lunch) or when all runs are complete, they'll take the time to update them to the DL Net.

They don't like to stop checking and doing runs, just to post the ones that are completed. That's why you will see a whole bunch of them show up all at once, not one at a time, usually after their lunch break, or at the end of the day.

I'm sure they are doing eveything they can to get them all done tonight, so they won't have to get up and do more runs tomorrow morning.

Did anyone see Prometheus?

If so, how was it. My wife kept slow rolling me, now its not in any theaters nearby.

Did anyone see Prometheus?

If so, how was it. My wife kept slow rolling me, now its not in any theaters nearby.

Ridley Scott has an impressive pedigree (Alien, Blade Runner, Gladiator, etc), and it seemed like he swung for the fences on this one trying to make another 2001.

Walked out of the theater after 3 hours and said "***,O"? Took a lot of after-show processing to make any heads or tails of it.

Nu

US Airways becomes AMR creditor - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-07-12/us-airways-becomes-amr-creditor)

this is related to the SkyWest MRJ order....


Cheers
George
Interesting hypothesis

Did anyone see Prometheus?

If so, how was it. My wife kept slow rolling me, now its not in any theaters nearby.

Tons of plot holes... not sure if they were intended or not. Special effects were great, though.

My wife flew to VPS Tuesday on a rev ticket. Checked her bag which got lost. She called & picked it up the next day. No big deal. Then tonight the bag delivery guy calls says he has my wife's bag. I tell him she picked it up from the airport Wed morning. He delivers the bag to her has her open it because it's tagged with her name & claim check number. The bag guy is trying to find out who the bag belongs to. This is the OMG part. She opens the bag & it's full of classified documents stamped SECRET. What kind of a dumb@$$ checks classified?

Did anyone see Prometheus?



I saw it. Twice, in fact. Great layover movie - granted, it's not an Academy Award winner, but I liked the premise behind the plot, and the computer graphic stuff was great.

As an added bonus, I picked up a great line for my initial briefing to my f/o's:

"I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to make money. You got that, mate?"

So far, kind of a lukewarm reception on that one. :(

A terrorist. Please call the FBI!

As an added bonus, I picked up a great line for my initial briefing to my f/o's:

"I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to make money. You got that, mate?"


Followed by.... "Who is your energy supplier?" :D

My wife flew to VPS Tuesday on a rev ticket. Checked her bag which got lost. She called & picked it up the next day. No big deal. Then tonight the bag delivery guy calls says he has my wife's bag. I tell him she picked it up from the airport Wed morning. He delivers the bag to her has her open it because it's tagged with her name & claim check number. The bag guy is trying to find out who the bag belongs to. This is the OMG part. She opens the bag & it's full of classified documents stamped SECRET. What kind of a dumb@$$ checks classified?

One headed to Ft Leavenworth??

My wife flew to VPS Tuesday on a rev ticket. Checked her bag which got lost. She called & picked it up the next day. No big deal. Then tonight the bag delivery guy calls says he has my wife's bag. I tell him she picked it up from the airport Wed morning. He delivers the bag to her has her open it because it's tagged with her name & claim check number. The bag guy is trying to find out who the bag belongs to. This is the OMG part. She opens the bag & it's full of classified documents stamped SECRET. What kind of a dumb@$$ checks classified?

Simple solution.

Claim the bag, send it to Buzzpat, demand royalty payments.


:D

Hope ur senior to me when they poison your food. Just kidding. Pretty bold inthat you are eating there. Never know what the cook is doing to your food.

Hidden KitchenCam footage:
Road Trip : French Toast Scene - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ZXRlcoEW8)

Did anyone see Prometheus?

If so, how was it. My wife kept slow rolling me, now its not in any theaters nearby.

Yes. Go see it. And you must see it in 3D to fully appreciate it.

If you're an Alien series fan like I am, this is a must see, especially since Ridley Scott was at the helm on this one. Although not a direct "prequel" to the original Alien movie, it does have links to the original Alien. Also, there is going to be a sequel to Prometheus, supposedly, that ties directly into Alien as a prequel. (Hopefully that makes sense.)

Even if you end up not liking the story line, the visual effects are astounding. Even though there are a few plot holes and it feels a bit rushed, it's well worth going to see.

Had a high up maintenance guy on the jumpseat the other day, and he said they were buying md-80's from AA for spare parts for our 88's. I asked if that meant we weren't going to be parking any anytime soon, and he said if we were parking 88's we would use them for spare parts.

That can't be! FtB said they would be sold off as soon as we get the 717s, and that everyone gets downgraded! Everyone! Run for the hills!

OK Jesse, two things;

Who is she?

Why does she keep staring at me...:eek:

Jessica Jane Clement

Because she's wants you to do a google image search of her.

We have some further developments.

http://chivethebrigade.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/good-500-4.jpg?w=500&h=718

Hey Jesse,

The last season on Breaking Bad starts Sunday. While I'm disappointed that one of the greatest shows on TV in years is about to come to an end, I am anxious to see what becomes of Walt.

Where.Are.The.Aug.B's?

That can't be! FtB said they would be sold off as soon as we get the 717s, and that everyone gets downgraded! Everyone! Run for the hills!

I don't think that was ever his argument Bill....

Hey Jesse,

The last season on Breaking Bad starts Sunday. While I'm disappointed that one of the greatest shows on TV in years is about to come to an end, I am anxious to see what becomes of Walt.

I'll be sorry to see it go, but the silver lining is they know it's the final season and I believe that will result in a very well written season. And it's 16 episodes! Can't wait for tomorrow night's premier!

After BB, I'll have to fall back on Homeland to look forward to.

I'll be sorry to see it go, but the silver lining is they know it's the final season and I believe that will result in a very well written season. And it's 16 episodes! Can't wait for tomorrow night's premier!

After BB, I'll have to fall back on Homeland to look forward to.

Just started up Sons of Anarchy - kind of a similar genre. You seen it yet?

She opens the bag & it's full of classified documents stamped SECRET. What kind of a dumb@$$ checks classified? :eek:
Take that stuff to Eglin or Hurlburt with the bag so they can figure out who did it. Someone is in big trouble.:mad:

You sure the bag wasn't originally checked to Beijing?

Had a high up maintenance guy on the jumpseat the other day, and he said they were buying md-80's from AA for spare parts for our 88's. I asked if that meant we weren't going to be parking any anytime soon, and he said if we were parking 88's we would use them for spare parts.

Well let's hope so.

because hope is all we're left with.

Well let's hope so.

because hope is all we're left with.

FTB;
I know exactly where you are coming from...Exactly. And I agree with you.

However, at the end of the day, it is apparent that hope is all we had all along.:confused: In reality, we now know that we don't really have the amount of hope that we thought we had.

I think it was Enemyof the state that said it best...Scope checkmate in two more moves.

Time to swallow the reality pill and realize one vote is one vote. Plus, all the effort and analysis done for the benefit of APC lurkers falls on a minority of deaf ears.

can we bypass security if we are traveling positive space on company business? Can't find it in the manuals or memos anywhere.

can we bypass security if we are traveling positive space on company business? Can't find it in the manuals or memos anywhere.

Yes you may. At least in ATL. Use the cheese grater. It was covered on a recent Quarterly CQ CD.

can we bypass security if we are traveling positive space on company business? Can't find it in the manuals or memos anywhere.

Yes, you may skip security if you are on company business space positive. Have a boarding pass or something to verify it in case you are stopped and asked.

What about DTW with a SIDA badge?

I can see my B category Aug award by clicking the A reason report and changing the A to B on the address line. FYI.

I would strongly recommend against the gold health plan in the future. My wife had a baby a few months ago. I added up the bills. Over $4000 out of pocket. This was after my HRA account was emptied. I will spend about $7000 on health care this year. That number is a disgrace. It should be nowhere near that.

I would strongly recommend against the gold health plan in the future. My wife had a baby a few months ago. I added up the bills. Over $4000 out of pocket. This was after my HRA account was emptied. I will spend about $7000 on health care this year. That number is a disgrace. It should be nowhere near that.

I agree, the HRA's will sneak up on you. With the PWA consolidating and reducing the cost of the contractual plan, I am seriously considering switching to it come January.

I would strongly recommend against the gold health plan in the future. My wife had a baby a few months ago. I added up the bills. Over $4000 out of pocket. This was after my HRA account was emptied. I will spend about $7000 on health care this year. That number is a disgrace. It should be nowhere near that.

Not like we have much of a choice with the PPO going away. :mad:

I would strongly recommend against the gold health plan in the future. My wife had a baby a few months ago. I added up the bills. Over $4000 out of pocket. This was after my HRA account was emptied. I will spend about $7000 on health care this year. That number is a disgrace. It should be nowhere near that.

Yep-bud at SWA had a kid last year to include some complications and paid less than $500.

Yep-bud at SWA had a kid last year to include some complications and paid less than $500.

I hear Herb personally delivers every baby and nurses them on Wild Turkey.

Yep-bud at SWA had a kid last year to include some complications and paid less than $500.

That's because SWA is broke because they compete and lose so badly to almighty Alaska on the west coast, where there is no money. Plus they don't generate enough revenue because 98% of their fleet are 130 seaters and they have no one else to "feed" their planes. Plus they can't get a good deal on health care because their CEO has no ties to a massive insurance company.




Wait, what?

I hear Herb personally delivers every baby and nurses them on Wild Turkey.

Post of the morning :D

I can see my B category Aug award by clicking the A reason report and changing the A to B on the address line. FYI.

Works for the Wide Reports as well.

Woohoo, 6 trips in Aug with red eyes to start!! Good times.

Just started up Sons of Anarchy - kind of a similar genre. You seen it yet?

I watched a couple of episodes of that. Liked it, but couldn't get into it since I was jumping in somewhere in season 2 or 3 (I think). I'll have to start from the beginning with it. FX's "Justified" is a good one as well...not in the same class as Breaking Bad, but still a pretty good show. The one on my must see list some day is "The Wire." I've heard it's a really good series to Netflix as well.

I don't know if I'd put it under tool of the day, but if it isn't, it's close.

I know the lounge chair area in the ATL crew room isn't a designated quiet zone, but it's obvious guys are trying to rack out for a while between flights. So with lots of other areas to hold a phone conversation down here I wonder what a guy's SA is when he holds a 15 min conversation at a loud talking level while he negotiates what he's willing to pay for hangar he's interested in buying. Come on, dude, look around...people are trying to sleep...the TV isn't even on and the only sound within 60' is you yammering on your phone. To emphasize the point, another guy next to him got a phone call and quickly answered it to silence the ringer, and then took the call as he stepped away from the area to hold his conversation.

............

This conversation will not end. Just sitting here watching the guy who took his call away from the area come back to his spot....he's reading his kindle while the other guy keeps yammering obnoxiously away...kindle guy keeps looking over to phone guy who appears to be developing a new friendship with a UPS pilot who's selling the hangar...."Do you know Joe? Blah, blah, blah..."

............
Finally, it ended after about 30 mins. Now let's see if he's surfing APC on that iPad...waiting for him to look over his left shoulder and catch me.

LAX Backdoor B's are out....HOW did I flunk bidding??? 10 days off w/ 77 hours? ***???

Baja.

LAX Backdoor B's are out....HOW did I flunk bidding??? 10 days off w/ 77 hours? ***???

Baja.


Ouch!!!!
That hurts just to read.

Is this the benefit of a 4.5 hour day except for ...

Yep-bud at SWA had a kid last year to include some complications and paid less than $500.

Please throw an app in over there. Please.

LAX Backdoor B's are out....HOW did I flunk bidding??? 10 days off w/ 77 hours? ***???

Baja.

You're joking, right?

ATL88B not available yet...always last.

Please throw an app over there. Please.

Sad to see what Delta has become..
"Don't like it here - go elsewhere". If you told this to any Delta employee for it's entire history until around 2005 people would think you are crazy..
Now you and T through statements like that without even thinking twice.

How about we try to stick together and improve this place?

$500 for the baby is nice, 77 hours for 20 days of work is not - face the truth, bro.

LAX Backdoor B's are out....HOW did I flunk bidding??? 10 days off w/ 77 hours? ***???

Baja.

No kidding. WORST schedule I've ever had! Take everything I said I didn't want to do, everything I said I did want to do, and flip it.:eek:

Hey Baja, I'll trade you some lovely MCO layovers worth 10.3. ;)

I would strongly recommend against the gold health plan in the future. My wife had a baby a few months ago. I added up the bills. Over $4000 out of pocket. This was after my HRA account was emptied. I will spend about $7000 on health care this year. That number is a disgrace. It should be nowhere near that.

Yep-bud at SWA had a kid last year to include some complications and paid less than $500.

Please throw an app over there. Please.

Instead of, "Let's try to make it better," the old "If you don't like it here, then leave." argument.

Nice.

You're joking, right?

ATL88B not available yet...always last.

Jesse, try opening up the ATL88A and substituting a B in the Wide Report. Worked great.

Actually, just noticed a huge disconnect between my schedule and the reasons report. They don't jive at all. Hmmmm. Maybe backdooring it this time isn't a good idea.

Ouch!!!!
That hurts just to read.

Is this the benefit of a 4.5 hour day except for ...

Nov 1st if he's doing Hawaii. He would do 6 instead of 7 for the month.

Hey Baja, I'll trade you some lovely MCO layovers worth 10.3. ;)

For an OGG...SURE!!!

Baja.

Instead of, "Let's try to make it better," the old "If you don't like it here, then leave." argument.

Nice.

No, it sounds like he loves it over there. If so, GO.

Sad to see what Delta has become..
"Don't like it here - go elsewhere". If you told this to any Delta employee for it's entire history until around 2005 people would think you are crazy..
Now you and T through statements like thUat without even thinking twice.

How about we try to stick together and improve this place?

$500 for the baby is nice, 77 hours for 20 days of work is not - face the truth, bro.

That's not exactly true. Most of those have early morning arrivals or late night departures, so even though you technically work a day, you have most of it off. Not great, but it's not really 20 full days. If you don't like it, bid the bus in SLC and get commutable lines. It might give you a better QOL.

Please throw an app over there. Please.

My son was born here 10 years ago, wife had complications, son had complications. Total cost on the Delta plan... 10 bucks.

Bill, all I can figure you for is a desk jockey of sorts... the kind that doesn't care what the plan is because you get yours by giving them ours.

Seven grand out of pocket is ridiculous.

Instead of, "Let's try to make it better," the old "If you don't like it here, then leave." argument.

Nice.

You make it yesterday? We finally got a new airplane and left at 1715. Got towed into Gate 28 @ 1945! :eek: Made it home though. Oh, & in the descent into JFK we got a RHPSOV caution message. We laughed so hard I was almost crying. It went out once the engines spooled back up, but I found it ironic. :D

Sad to see what Delta has become..
"Don't like it here - go elsewhere". If you told this to any Delta employee for it's entire history until around 2005 people would think you are crazy..
Now you and T through statements like that without even thinking twice.


$500 for the baby is nice, 77 hours for 20 days of work is not - face the truth, bro.

I like this statement much better.


How about we try to stick together and improve this place?


From what I see at work, the people here are great to work with and seem to genuinely care about each other. So, I have to consider Bill and comments like his to be an exception to the rule.

$4000 is a lot of money to pay for having a kid, and the bills just keep coming after that. (Does it ever end?) I hope we can fix that part of the insurance plan in the future.

Jesse, try opening up the ATL88A and substituting a B in the Wide Report. Worked great.

I keep getting a User Authentication message. Doesn't work for me. :confused: You must have connections Buzz. :D

You make it yesterday? We finally got a new airplane and left at 1715. Got towed into Gate 28 @ 1945! :eek: Made it home though. Oh, & in the descent into JFK we got a RHPSOV caution message. We laughed so hard I was almost crying. It went out once the engines spooled back up, but I found it ironic.


Yes! I made it. It was a cluster at the other gate, but scheduling got me on the flight. I think they ran out of captains this weekend, so it was nice to feel needed. :D


You guys did a great job. Delta professionalism at its best. With that deep radio voice of yours, I wonder if female controllers ever deny your requests for shortcuts, different altitudes, and closer runways. Hopefully we can fly together, so I can see the smooth talker in action. :D

Thanks again, Johnson. Nice meeting you!

I keep getting a User Authentication message. Doesn't work for me. :confused: You must have connections Buzz. :D

Yeah, but mines all screwed up. I look at the Reasons and it says my requests were honored. Then I look at my schedule and none of it was honored. I think I'm screwed, my wife's gonna kill me.:eek:

Yes! I made it. It was a cluster at the other gate, but scheduling got me on the flight. I think they ran out of captains this weekend, so it was nice to feel needed. :D


You guys did a great job. Delta professionalism at its best. With that deep radio voice of yours, I wonder if female controllers ever deny your requests for shortcuts, different altitudes, and closer runways. Hopefully we can fly together, so I can see the smooth talker in action. :D

Thanks again, Johnson. Nice meeting you!

Glad you made it. It was good meeting you too! I wish we could've fixed it and gone. I could've used your presence to help me tame that 767 beast. Super tells me it's like Skywalker moving his fighter in the presence of Yoda. The power of the master is present. :D

Hoping we fly together soon. I've got the first round.

Yeah, but mines all screwed up. I look at the Reasons and it says my requests were honored. Then I look at my schedule and none of it was honored. I think I'm screwed, my wife's gonna kill me.:eek:

Shirley she's still happy from your get away this month? Just remind her of that. :D

Shirley she's still happy from your get away this month? Just remind her of that. :D

Oh yeah. That's only one point though. For women, everything good is worth one point.;)

Glad you made it. It was good meeting you too! I wish we could've fixed it and gone. I could've used your presence to help me tame that 767 beast. Super tells me it's like Skywalker moving his fighter in the presence of Yoda. The power of the master is present. :D

Hoping we fly together soon. I've got the first round.

No, sir. You have NO rounds. I've got them all.

Super in the 767 was a sight to see. I tried to video tape it, but when I tried to play it back it was all static.*

*For the Feds and Management: Just kidding. There was no electronic device used by me in flight. :D


http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/NEWKNOW/quick-change.jpg

No, sir. You have NO rounds. I've got them all.

You are too kind sir. I hope I can take you up on that offer.

Super in the 767 was a sight to see. I tried to video tape it, but when I tried to play it back it was all static.*

*For the Feds and Management: Just kidding. There was no electronic device used by me in flight. :D


http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/NEWKNOW/quick-change.jpg


Except the stun gun used to tame the ladies. :D

You are too kind sir. I hope I can take you up on that offer.




Except the stun gun used to tame the ladies. :D

Yes. Its was very hard keeping them away from Super.

"Ladies. Ladies. Please. The man is trying to fly. Give him some room." :D

Yes! I made it. It was a cluster at the other gate, but scheduling got me on the flight. I think they ran out of captains this weekend, so it was nice to feel needed. :D


You guys did a great job. Delta professionalism at its best. With that deep radio voice of yours, I wonder if female controllers ever deny your requests for shortcuts, different altitudes, and closer runways. Hopefully we can fly together, so I can see the smooth talker in action. :D

Thanks again, Johnson. Nice meeting you!
Aha, I was the jumpseater on the 135 that bailed when we got back to the gate with mechanical on the 1225. Made it over to BRU and had mussels for dinner.

Ha, I hit my $5000 out of pocket in network max already.

It was $12k for a 2 night stay for one, $15k for a five night stay for the other both viruses. The latter hit his head playing and that was $5k ER visit. Still paying off the $2k bill from last year.

My total hospital bill for FTB since 1999, $150.

Names are now shown on the daily trip coverage page... kinda neat.

No, sir. You have NO rounds. I've got them all.

Super in the 767 was a sight to see. I tried to video tape it, but when I tried to play it back it was all static.*

*For the Feds and Management: Just kidding. There was no electronic device used by me in flight. :D


http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/NEWKNOW/quick-change.jpg


This is fact, you see I tried to purchase beverages but the newk won't have it. The newk even dropped off random beers (tall boys of my favorite beers, how he knew I'll never know nor question...) at my hotel room doorstep unannounced. The most interesting man in the world has nothing on the newk, fact.

Tasers for the ladies is just necessary, sorry for the inconviemances newk. I'm trying to keep it on dl so Mr. Springer will stop calling me to come on his show...;)

Ha, I hit my $5000 out of pocket in network max already.

It was $12k for a 2 night stay for one, $15k for a five night stay for the other both viruses. The latter hit his head playing and that was $5k ER visit. Still paying off the $2k bill from last year.

My total hospital bill for FTB since 1999, $150.

Yup, I get hammered on health care every year under our crap insurance. Paying 1500 out of pocket for my old ladies outpatient surgery next week. It's out of control how much our insurance sucks now

Yup, I get hammered on health care every year under our crap insurance. Paying 1500 out of pocket for my old ladies outpatient surgery next week. It's out of control how much our insurance sucks now

With Mini80 coming in Jan, I've got some serious researching to do on the next open enrollement...