Airline Pilot Forums

Alright, I've been an FO for over three years at one of the "preffered" regionals after doin a year for the devil at Mesa...Here I am 4 years into the airline game 5,000+ hours, no upgrade in sight, im pulling in just a hair over 40k a year, I waste 6+ hours of my life a week commuting (no choice, my wife has the better job), and there seems to be no improvement in sight in this industry...100 seat airplanes expanding and being flown for peanuts, morale in the gutter, national carriers being bought out by regionals, etc....etc...

So I decided to look into different "guvmint" jobs and came across positions for Police cadets in my city...hmmm. Looked into the requirements, salary, benies etc...

Bottom line - Starting salary out of training is in the mid 50s, mid 60s year two, pushing 80s into your 4th year and topping out in the low 100s depending on education level, rank, hours, overtime, etc...To boot you have a pretty nice pension after 23 years of service, solid benefits and work 4 days a week. After two years on the streets you can move on to other areas in the department to include aviation.

I guess my question is for any of you out there who have served for a large police department - Did you/ Do you enjoy it? Is it a fun, rewarding job? Would you leave this gutter of an airline world to pursue law enforcement? :confused:

See the thread entitled "serious question about career" below about a cop who left to persue aviation....

The biggest question I have is, how old are you? There are a lot of government jobs in and out of aviation that could be open to you depending on your age...

I'm 28, and I can't leave the city we live in...

My wife is a former 12 year veteran of law Enforcment and she will be the first to tell you that in that job you get comsumed by the things you see, you deal with the dregs of society for years and it will take its toll on how you see the world. I would simply caution you to not fall into the grass is greener syndrome, but rather do your research and then make a decision...Good luck

I'm 28, and I can't leave the city we live in...

Have you thought about ATC? Makes 70k-100K, they will give you credits for your licenses and work history, and the cut off age is 31... And you will find out if you can stay in your home town before you go to OKC for training...

My wife is a former 12 year veteran of law Enforcment and she will be the first to tell you that in that job you get comsumed by the things you see, you deal with the dregs of society for years and it will take its toll on how you see the world. I would simply caution you to not fall into the grass is greener syndrome, but rather do your research and then make a decision...Good luck

Dregs of society? Have you ever been through the terminal in KATL?... Id say he would be pretty well conditioned to it...

Dregs of society? Have you ever been through the terminal in KATL?... Id say he would be pretty well conditioned to it...

Well lets see, in the Terminal at ATL have you ever responded to see a 3 year old child that has been beaten to death by a drunk father???

Lets keep it in perspective...

Well lets see, in the Terminal at ATL have you ever responded to see a 3 year old child that has been beaten to death by a drunk father???

Lets keep it in perspective...

Oh really?? Ok. In the last few years, at KATL, I have personally witnessed a drunk man strike his wife at one of the bars, a purse snatcher, and a guy get caught with a good amount of weed... Sounds like a standard episode of Cops to me...

To the OP, take a look at this article, you can find a number of jobs that will pay more and keep you home more. Notice the "regional pilot's" salary!

What Washingtonians Make - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/salaries/)

Oh really?? Ok. In the last few years, at KATL, I have personally witnessed a drunk man strike his wife at one of the bars, a purse snatcher, and a guy get caught with a good amount of weed... Sounds like a standard episode of Cops to me...

To the OP, take a look at this article, you can find a number of jobs that will pay more and keep you home more. Notice the "regional pilot's" salary!

What Washingtonians Make - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/salaries/)

I'm confused, A person comes on here to offer some free advice from someone whos been there (my wife ) and you have to make comments trying to prove your what ???( more knowledgable about police and what they deal with, daily????)( How many years were you a cop???)( What a bad a$$ city ATL is??) Not quite sure what your motivation is????

What about Natural Resource law enforcement? National Park Service Rangers, Bureau of Land Management Rangers, US Forest Service, etc.

I know all Law Enforcement positions probably get to see the crap in society on a daily basis, but these positions are in an environment completely different to a cop working in Atlanta or other similarly large US city. Completely different environments altogether.

I'm only throwing this out there because I'm kind of leaning towards the LE route as well, only more towards the Natural Resource side of things.

Carry On.

FYI, that seems to be a popular trend! My Background investigator told me that there have been a number of pilots (among other professionals) that have or are going through the hiring process.

I know of former airline pilots who turned in their wings for a badge. They ALL MISS flying, and acknowledge that the police career (take into consideration face time with the family, benefits, esp retirement) is superior to what the airlines will offer.

I for one will say that with law enforcement, comes a huge price tag. The job is FUN, and Exciting (like your rookie years as a pilot), but comes with a tremendous amount of BS, politics, danger, and not to mention the countless contacts and cases that will make you think the world is filled with "winners".

It's very stressful, because your always thinking about liability, and names and faces, and court, etc....it's un like the airlines where the biggest stress from most stems from their commute! (I say that tongue in cheek of course).

The grass always seems to be greener on the other side! On that note there are also a number of cops who have become airline pilots and are doing ok, I think.

It takes a certain personality to be a cop. I'd advise you to do ride with the officers as often as you can.

Go try out, you might really enjoy and be and excellent officer.

I really have alot more to say about this, but I'll keep it general for the sake of everyone else.

PM if you wish.

TC

I have had two pilot friends who made the switch to being a cop and they love it.

Skyhigh

gsphuntr,

Is it possible for you to do a ride-along with the local police department? This might be a great avenue to get some advice and possibly see first-hand if it is for you.

For what it's worth, one of my best friends is a police officer and has been for several years. He really likes it and says it is the best job out there. It can be very rewarding, but like any other job it has its cons (no pun intended) too. As someone mentioned earlier you will be seeing a part of society that most of us only see on the six o'clock news.

If you are serious about pursuing this, one of the biggest recommendations would be physical fitness. Run, strength train, and become very skilled in martial arts.

I'm looking at the same career jump.

Read about it before you make the jump, one such book is "101 reasons you should not become a cop"

Seems to be pretty representative of what to expect. But of course the satisfaction of the job is a whole lot better. Seems that those who get the badge a little older (late 20's instead of early) do better and can keep the job in perspective.

I'd also recommend realpolice.net or officer.com to get some insights.

Pilot who want to be cops and cops who want to be pilots?

This could not have anything to do with some kind of type "a" power hungry personality glitch?

Pilot who want to be cops and cops who want to be pilots?

This could not have anything to do with some kind of type "a" power hungry personality glitch?
More like people who desire to try and control the uncontrolled....:D

Have you ever met a pilot that wasnt a "type A" personality, I havnt...

I have been in law enforcement for 27 years and the last 12 as a pilot flying full time. For me it has been the best of both worlds. Sure I am not flying turbines (I fly fixed wing not helos) but my QOL is better than almost any airline pilot. My commute is 20 minutes and home every night. I grew up while my mom worked for the airlines and it is not what it used to be. However, neither is law enforcement.

I think that most dept's would require you to work patrol for several years and that is not for most people. I loved it but it can be difficult due to some of the things that you have to see and deal with. Remember that all of the worst stories you see on TV, some Officer had to respond to and investigate. It can be pretty ugly and that can take a toll on your QOL.

The flying can be very challanging. I normally fly by myself and work all of the radios (we have 7 radios) while maneuvering at 500 agl and low speeds keeping track of units and/or suspects, other aircraft, towers, etc. It's great! Most depts will also want you you have all your ratings before begining training. So count on spending at least another $15K if not rated in helos.

I would recommend it also because if you were to lose your medical your still have a job in law enforcement. If you get serious check several depts. They are all different and some are probably not what you think. The federal agencies generally do not do much law enforcement once in an air unit. This may be more appealing to those that don't like that aspect but for me the law enforcement is the best part. Once you are comfortable/competent in the aircraft the action is happening outide of the cockpit.

I am very happy that I did not go the airline route. Although the aircraft are faster, more complex and carry more prestige (to some) it is boring flying. Don't get me wrong everything becomes a job after awhile but mine is generally different every day. You could not give me an airline job today (or tomorrow).

Good luck.

I did the cop thing during the last recession. Most cops become pilots, not the other way around. But I guess times change. Either way, it's better than a desk job. I could never work in a cubicle.

Do you really want to deal with crackheads all day long? I'm willing to bet you got into aviation by only looking at the positive side. Don't forget to take a long look at the negative side. Many people do not like the police, you will be called all kinds of names. People view police as more of a revenue generator now than a help to society, speed camera anyone? Your social interactions will be with people who would perfer you dead outnumbering the people that will thank you. It will get to you over time.

You may be shot at, the shot may miss your bullet proof vest and hit you in the head. Your wife will always wonder if today is the day. Much like a prison guard, this is a dead end job, very little to look forward to. As a firefighter I once saw a twelve year old blow his brains out with a shotgun after shooting his sister. I don't care who you are, it will get to you.

I would stick with 40k a year in the flaps up, shut up seat.

Talked to the recruiter today - pretty helpful and not sugar coated. He said he knows of 3 airline pilots joined the force in the last year. I've flown with former cops - Most came from podunk departments in small towns - Not a big city department with the highest pay in the state with killer benies and a nice pension. I know you have to deal with the underbelly of society...Doesn't bother me. People hating you? You think I give a crap what some dbag thinks of me? It's all about feeding my family and being home buddy. I'm gonna go ahead and apply, take the test, and see what happens...Perfect time to take a VLA and explore the options. Thanks for the replys....Good luck swingin gear for 40k.

Hey huntr
I had a student that was an engineer who had been a cop in manhattan Ks. a noted college town and he told me he almost had to shot some guy one night after responding to a "disturbing the public" call. Needless to say, it scared the s--t out of him. he will never go back to it. also, my dad was a B747-200 capt for 16 years. a couple of his F/O's were ex-cops and they told him it is a very thankless job.
Also, ask yourself this: Can I live with myself if I have to shot some jerk even if it is in self-defense? you said 2 years on the street. I interpret that as "if you survive that 2 years".

One of the things that I was told is that the Grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.
Do some serious soul searching on this one.

TDX

Every job is a thankless POS. Flying, cop, you name it.

Give it a shot gsp. Can always go back to flying.

Do you really want to deal with crackheads all day long? I'm willing to bet you got into aviation by only looking at the positive side. Don't forget to take a long look at the negative side. Many people do not like the police, you will be called all kinds of names. People view police as more of a revenue generator now than a help to society, speed camera anyone? Your social interactions will be with people who would perfer you dead outnumbering the people that will thank you. It will get to you over time.

Many people do not like the police, that is, until they need them.

Many people do not like the police, that is, until they need them.

Some like or dislike cops however everyone likes a firefighter.

I have a pilot friend who became a county cop ten years ago and loves it. The benefits are so good that he can retire after 20 years when he is 53 if he wants to. He works 4 12 hour shifts and is then off of three or four days. He has his own patrol car that he takes home. His department bought him a fully automatic AR15 and he gets paid to go shooting. In his garage he has a nice collection of confiscated items that he gets to play with. In the morning he will sign in over the radio and then sit there in his kitchen sipping coffee until a call comes in. Often it can take half the day before he is needed. Not a bad deal at all.

In my home town cops can do whatever they want. They drive drunk, get into public fights, drive recklessly, and stalk young women while on the clock and no one seems to care. It is like a private country club.

Skyhigh

Some like or dislike cops however everyone likes a firefighter.

In his garage he has a nice collection of confiscated items that he gets to play with. In the morning he will sign in over the radio and then sit there in his kitchen sipping coffee until a call comes in. Often it can take half the day before he is needed. Not a bad deal at all.

In my home town cops can do whatever they want. They drive drunk, get into public fights, drive recklessly, and stalk young women while on the clock and no one seems to care. It is like a private country club.

Skyhigh


I'm sorry to hear you have such unprofessional officers where you live. None of that would be tolerated at my dept and all of the mentioned behavior would rightly result in termination. I have worked in a low paid dept before and although there were many very dedicated officers you tend to get what you pay for.

I'm sorry to hear you have such unprofessional officers where you live. None of that would be tolerated at my dept and all of the mentioned behavior would rightly result in termination. I have worked in a low paid dept before and although there were many very dedicated officers you tend to get what you pay for.

At lunch today I was reminded that our local police are not even drug tested. Cops are exposed to drugs and prostitutes all day long it seems highly irresponsible to not randomly test an officer.

Skyhigh

I just want to know one thing with regards to a career in law enforcement:

How do you get to be the guy that operates the water turret from the armored car when it comes to crowd control?

That's the job I want!! :D

At lunch today I was reminded that our local police are not even drug tested. Cops are exposed to drugs and prostitutes all day long it seems highly irresponsible to not randomly test an officer.

Skyhigh

It makes me wonder how much other stuff you just make up too...

I also am a 27YOA first officer for a "preferred" regional. I was a Reserve 'volunteer' Deputy and Corrections Officer in college and miss it a lot. So I did it for free! and i want to go back.

And I too am looking into law enforcement, i.e. State Patrol. The lifestyle of a first officer is horrible. Much rather sit in a patrol car and be bored and get paid well and do something good for society; i.e. arrest DUI's and dope dealers. I have no challenge now. My only challenge is to try to touch down in the TDLZ 'softly' and keep my captain awake.

Be very, VERY careful when it comes to choosing a department. "Police" administrators (I quoted police, because most of them aren't cops' cops) can ruin any semblance of a satisfying job. In fact, if they're jealous of your credentials, they can also torpedo your career. True in ANY job, but much less so in the airlines. I'm certainly not advocating how the airlines operate, but it can be a shock to someone who is used to the seniority system.

Also, be aware that LE can be incredibly frustrating. If you're in it to "do good for society," I can almost assure that you'll be out within seven years. You're only as useful as your local prosecutors. If you like the JOB, you'll love it.

Although the aircraft are faster, more complex and carry more prestige (to some) it is boring flying.



That is an incredibly broad generalization, similar to statements like "all road patrol does is work crashes and direct traffic." Sure, you can just do the bare minimum when flying the line (much like the guy on mids that goes and hides for most of his shift), but you can also become involved in collateral duties.


Every job has its challenges. Sometimes it's up to you to find them. I will digress that the biggest challenge for regional FOs is finances, though.

Alright, I've been an FO for over three years at one of the "preffered" regionals..........I guess my question is for any of you out there who have served for a large police department - Did you/ Do you enjoy it? Is it a fun, rewarding job? Would you leave this gutter of an airline world to pursue law enforcement? :confused:


I was a 22 year old Captain for a very small sched Part 135 commuter airline in 1976 ....... and by late 1977, I was a full time Depty Sheriff for a very large Sheriff's Dept in Southern California. There were a variety of reasons for the switch, but the most basic of them was that, at 22 years old and with 2000 hrs of flight time, I was just bored with "gear up, autopilot on"; I knew that airline flying just did not have enough of an adrenaline kick for me, and I couldn't see myself spending half my life away from home and sleeping in hotels, with a job that was, to me, basically, too boring to spend the next 38 years doing. So I "switched", and became a cop. I spent most of the first 20 years of my LE career working uniformed patrol, detective and undercover assignments, both as a Deputy and as a Sergeant, almost all of that time in "inner city/ghetto/high crime areas". To this day, I still miss the time I spent working uniformed patrol in the County territory near "Watts" in South Central Los Angeles in the early 1980's; that was the most fun I ever had with my clothes on, and, even to this day, the only job (or assignment) I ever had where I did not want to leave at the end of my shift, and could not wait to get back to, the next day. (I didn't want to miss anything; it was that fun and entertaining.). For the last almost 12 years, I have been flying helos and F/W at our Aviation Unit, which is also fun......... just not quite as much fun as working patrol in the "inner city". Add in decent pay (at least for the bigger West Coast Dept's); an excellent retirement; and home every nite, and it was, at least for me, a career change I have never ever regretted. And even before being assigned to our Dept's aviation unit, I still managed to remain involved professionally in aviation in a part-time capacity, with a variety of part-time jobs "on the side", from CFI to part-time contract pilot, in stuff like twin Cessnas and King Airs.

I guess the big reason for my switch was not necessarily pay issues, but the other "QOL" things, as well as my feeling that airline type flying is just too boring for my "Type A, Need A Lot of Adrenaline Kick Excitement" personality. Just keep in mind that a career in law enforcement is not for everyone. You have to have a somewhat ahh.... quirky (?) ... sick (?) personality, and a perverted sense of humor to make it through a 20 or 30 year career in LE. And you have to be willing and able to use physical force on another person, and even kill someone, if need be; if you can't do these things, then you will not last long in a LE career. Also always remember that you put yourself in harms way every day. I've been to a lot of law enforcement funerals in my 30+ years as a cop; it is a pretty sobering experience, especially when it was someone you knew or worked with at some point in your career. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info.

Just like any occupation, it is what you make it. I decided to leave law enforcement after 17 years. I got hired with a PD in a large metropolitan area at age 22, worked in swat, canine unit, training, task force, flew surveillance, and five years as patrol sergeant. I made close to 80K a year before overtime and the benefits were the best. I could have stayed in it for another 17 years but because of the politics, I started not enjoy it anymore. Handling the shootings, stabbings, rapes and robberies was the fun part. Its the second guessing, back stabbing and ass kissing that I got a little tired of.

I decided to leave the department, open a business and did well enough to pay off the house, cars and airplane that we now own. I started flying about the same time I became a cop and have owned a few different airplanes which I built about 1600 hours in.

I recently sold the business, put a chunk of cash in the bank and got all the ratings I need to make myself marketable as a pro-pilot which is what I've wanted to do since high school. Instead of getting my cfi ratings, I bought a twin comanche and after I built 200 multi hours in it, I sold it last week.

I'll admit, there were a lot of chances I took to get to where I'm at now but so far it seems to have worked out. I have an interview this week to fly FO in a beechjet400A for a law firm who wants the pilot to assist with investigations when not flying. The reason they are interested in me is not so much for my flying experience, but the combination with my law enforcement experience.

So, in my case having law enforcement and pilot experience is hopefully going to allow me to get paid spending time doing what I really love to do...Fly!

...........Handling the shootings, stabbings, rapes and robberies was the fun part. Its the second guessing, back stabbing and ass kissing that I got a little tired of......


For those of you considering a switch to a law enforcement career, read and think about the above quote/excerpt by jbravo65. If you read that, and thought "wow, he thought handling the shootings, stabbings, rapes and robberies was the fun part...... what is he, nuts or something?" ..... then run, don't walk, away from police work as a choice of a career. You gotta have the kind of personality that will find handling those sorts of things fun, entertaining and exciting. If not, forget LE as a career. He is also right "on the money" with his other comment. I was just lucky to go 30+ years in assignments and working with people where the "second guessing, back stabbing and ass kissing" was sufficiently minimal, that, while still a pain in the ass, it was manageable and not bad enough to cause me to want to leave the Dept. But, I saw plenty of it, just was able to keep my distance from most of it. (One of the benefits of being on a BIG Dept!) And now, with 32 years on my present Dept and almost 35 years total as a cop, I am in a position to leave (retire) whenever I want to........ which will probably be in the not-too-distant future!!

Public safety is a very hard road to go down and should not be taken lightly. You get mad because you don't get a full 8hrs rest now weight till you get to the side of keeping people safe. My father was a cop now a lawyer and told me to stay away at all cost. I did and became a firefighter instead. There both thankless jobs that can and will take your life. If not in the line then latter. Out of the guys that retired in the past 3 years i think it was 10 only 2 are still alive. We have a mandatory retirement age of 65. You are complaining about being a fo and only making 40k. Well that is pretty good and remember if you stick it out just like everyone else that came before you then a captain's spot you will get. I am getting sick of all this entailment stuff. If the jobs not for you then quit. However I don't think that you will be happy in LE. If you want more info about public safety then PM me and be more then glad to talk to you.

Do what you feel is right for you. There are a lot of "knuckleheads" out there who think they have the answer for every one of life's questions. In the end, you are the only person who can look in the mirror and make the final judgement. Good luck.

Do what you feel is right for you. There are a lot of "knuckleheads" out there who think they have the answer for every one of life's questions. In the end, you are the only person who can look in the mirror and make the final judgement. Good luck.

Exactly, Have a buddy who was ex USAir, got furloughed from the 737 and was hired by Customs, flies Citations, Blackhawks and a few other types, when recalled turned them down and stayed in law enforcement.

Exactly, Have a buddy who was ex USAir, got furloughed from the 737 and was hired by Customs, flies Citations, Blackhawks and a few other types, when recalled turned them down and stayed in law enforcement.

I know someone who did the same thing. Left Delta (not furloughed) for CBP and isn't looking back. Flying Citations out of San Diego.

USMCFLYR

Man o Man your not the only one. I think about it all the time. I can really see myself putting the flight case up sonner than later.