Airline Pilot Forums

I need your opinion about runway crossing clearances and runway incursions. This is for a class at the university and it will only take 3 minutes or so. Thank you for providing your thoughts:


https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=LaD016u4AAB6ZCJGjhtm_2bA_3d_3d

I took the survey, would love to see your results.

Done as well...

For the sake of discussion, personally I don't feel like this would help. I prefer to remember one thing, the important thing, and that's "what do I hold short of?" I am less concerned with what the things are called that I'm supposed to cross.

I think the only slightly confusing thing in the current method is the

==============================
When ATC clears an aircraft to "taxi to" an assigned takeoff runway, the absence of holding instructions authorizes the aircraft to "cross" all runways which the taxi route intersects except the assigned takeoff runway. It does not include authorization to "taxi onto" or "cross" the assigned takeoff runway at any point.
==============================

This usually comes up where you taxi to the departure end or an intersection for takeoff and is no big deal. But there are couple (fortunately not many) airports where the taxiway layout is such that there would be a crossing of the departure runway somewhere in the middle in order to get to the departure end. There's even a quiz somewhere that presents that scenario.

But I don't think that overall it's a big deal.

I think the only slightly confusing thing in the current method is the

==============================
When ATC clears an aircraft to "taxi to" an assigned takeoff runway, the absence of holding instructions authorizes the aircraft to "cross" all runways which the taxi route intersects except the assigned takeoff runway. It does not include authorization to "taxi onto" or "cross" the assigned takeoff runway at any point.
==============================

This usually comes up where you taxi to the departure end or an intersection for takeoff and is no big deal. But there are couple (fortunately not many) airports where the taxiway layout is such that there would be a crossing of the departure runway somewhere in the middle in order to get to the departure end. There's even a quiz somewhere that presents that scenario.

But I don't think that overall it's a big deal.

This is a non-issue when things go according to plan. But if the crew screws up the taxi route, they could end up crossing an in-use runway on the assumption that they have an implied crossing restriction.

This is a non-issue when things go according to plan. But if the crew screws up the taxi route, they could end up crossing an in-use runway on the assumption that they have an implied crossing restriction.I don't recall if this on was in the quiz that I mentioned but this is the type of scenario I was talking about

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0910/00015AD.PDF

You are at the cargo area at the southwest corner of the airport. You are given instructions to "taxi to runway 31 via Alpha and Bravo." A good number of pilots looking at the scenario answer that they can cross 13/31 without additional clearance.

I don't recall if this on was in the quiz that I mentioned but this is the type of scenario I was talking about

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0910/00015AD.PDF

You are at the cargo area at the southwest corner of the airport. You are given instructions to "taxi to runway 31 via Alpha and Bravo." A good number of pilots looking at the scenario answer that they can cross 13/31 without additional clearance.


Usually I've had similar taxi situations... but the controller usually would say... "taxi via alpha, hold short to cross 31" or something along those lines. Maybe the Southeast has a lot of students - I don't know.

Usually I've had similar taxi situations... but the controller usually would say... "taxi via alpha, hold short to cross 31" or something along those lines. I think you are correct. But that is one of those situations in which not giving the crossing instructions (the question asked by the survey) while technically proper meaning the same thing might be confusing.

I would say a better new rule would be to require ATC to specify the hold short when the taxi route crosses the active runway, that way there is no confusion as to whether or not the runway can be crossed. In reality, I have always heard ATC doing this, even though it's not required.

While not knowing the rule as it exists is not really an excuse, I think that if a good number of pilots don't understand it, it's worth changing in the interest of safety.

I would say a better new rule would be to require ATC to specify the hold short when the taxi route crosses the active runway, that way there is no confusion as to whether or not the runway can be crossed. In reality, I have always heard ATC doing this, even though it's not required.

While not knowing the rule as it exists is not really an excuse, I think that if a good number of pilots don't understand it, it's worth changing in the interest of safety.


What is wrong with asking the controller for clarification of the taxi instuctions given?

I wish we would transition to a series of Coded Taxi Routes (CTR). Also, allow aircraft to cross runways with a CTR clearance which I believe currrently is not allowed.

This cleans up the radios and gives the pilos standardized taxi routes by which they can follow.

What is wrong with asking the controller for clarification of the taxi instuctions given?Nothing. But the problem with the scenario is that the pilot heard and thinks he does understand the instructions. Why would he ask for clarification?

What is wrong with asking the controller for clarification of the taxi instuctions given?

Nothing at all.

Nothing. But the problem with the scenario is that the pilot heard and thinks he does understand the instructions. Why would he ask for clarification?

Which is belive that if we used Coded Taxi Routes to the maximum extent possible, people wouldn't "hear" they wanted to hear.

I need your opinion about runway crossing clearances and runway incursions. This is for a class at the university and it will only take 3 minutes or so. Thank you for providing your thoughts:


https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=LaD016u4AAB6ZCJGjhtm_2bA_3d_3d
Thanks for the input! The survey is now closed. I'll come back here with some of the results soon.