Airline Pilot Forums

I’ve been hearing a lot of chatter in various financial circles,( not the typical pilot rumor mill) of a possible buyout of World Airways by AAWW…I have no opinion or agenda regarding this matter, just wondering if any of u guys and gals have heard any similar rumors online? And if so, what have u heard and how valid do u think any of these claims r? Thx…

If you have no opinion or agenda in this matter, what difference does it make? (
Other than to stir the pot, of course.)

Not trying to stir any pot...I'm simply a trader sitting on a number of May 45 strike call contracts on AAWW and I've been hearing alot of chatter...I'm just trying to do some online research and check on my investment as this is how I feed my family...with that being said, I would never come on here and try and stir pots and upset hard working crews trying to feed their families...So when I said I don't have an agenda or opinion, I should have clarified that I meant I don't have any regarding airline politics or any of the other topics that get people spooled up on this board..just trying to check on my investment is all...No need to be so harsh and abrasive in your response.

Not trying to stir any pot...I'm simply a trader sitting on a number of May 45 strike call contracts on AAWW and I've been hearing alot of chatter...I'm just trying to do some online research and check on my investment as this is how I feed my family...with that being said, I would never come on here and try and stir pots and upset hard working crews trying to feed their families...So when I said I don't have an agenda or opinion, I should have clarified that I meant I don't have any regarding airline politics or any of the other topics that get people spooled up on this board..just trying to check on my investment is all...No need to be so harsh and abrasive in your response.

Airlines aren't an investment, havent you heard that before??? lol

Good luck. I havent heard the rumor.

TYG

I would short it. But, then again, I have no opinion or agenda.

just made over 6k on AAWW off the boeing LCF contract running 40 strike calls and bull put spreads when the stock went from 44.95 to 49.10 when the announcement came out and have since made an additional 14k off AAWW as it has continued to rally over 53 dollars....made about 5k a while back off ATSG...I do this for a living and make money off airlines, retail, automotive, dry bulk shipping u name it...I specialize credit spreads, Iron Condors, chicken strangles ect where I go after volitility and don't even care which way the stock is moving as long as I'm in the money... I agree with u that airlines r a horrible long term investment...they r the worst...but I specialize in short and mid term options..the higher the beta and more volitile the better, so yes, I love airlines and they r a great investment for me personaly; however, I do know this type of trading is not for everyone..but, it works for me and I enjoy it more than flying airplanes

I would short it. But, then again, I have no opinion or agenda.

I'm sure u would short it shorty....lol

just made over 20k on AAWW off the boeing LCF contract running 40 strike calls and bull put spreads when the stock went from 44.95 to 49.10 the other day....made about 5k a while back off ATSG...I do this for a living and make money off airlines, retail, automotive, dry bulk shipping u name it...I specialize credit spreads, Iron Condors, chicken strangles ect where I go after volitility and don't even care which way the stock is moving as long as I'm in the money... I agree with u that airlines r a horrible long term investment...they r the worst...but I specialize in short and mid term options..the higher the beta and more volitile the better, so yes, I love airlines and they r a great investment for me personaly; however, I do know this type of trading is not for everyone..but, it works for me and I enjoy it more than flying airplanes

The only point that I was making with my original post is that there was an obvious agenda. Just be honest, and you might get the inside answers that you are looking for. Come on here stating that you have no agenda and you might get info, but who is to say if it is correct. Shorty........

The only point that I was making with my original post is that there was an obvious agenda. Just be honest, and you might get the inside answers that you are looking for. Come on here stating that you have no agenda and you might get info, but who is to say if it is correct. Shorty........

I'm not naive enough to think I am going to come on here and get solid answers..just more less a where there is smoke there is fire type of view of things...I was being completely honest and was simply trying to convey the point that I wasn't trying to stir the pot between pilot groups, just wanted some intel...I c how it may have come across that I was; but, I can honestly say that I wasn't and would not want to get anyone spooled up..just interested in what I've been hearing and curious to what others had to say is all

I am just saying, there is an obvious agenda on your end.

I am just saying, there is an obvious agenda on your end.

Point taken...u r right, I do have an agenda and I should have clarified my statement....my intent though was to convey to everyone that I didn't want to start a debate over airline politics and stir the pot as I know there r people that come on here and do just that for their twisted entertainment...just wanted to let everyone know that I'm not one of those people is all...I should have explaned what I was doing with the stock and that that was my only interest in the topic...so, I can admit, I could have phrased it better and will next time...I just don't spend much time in these forums...sorry if i stired the pot.

I think you should take a hike....

You come here looking to make a quick buck off of the working stiffs you could care less about. Reminds me of management CEO types who come in to push the stock price up and get out, while those with a long term investment in the biz suffer from CEO's looking for short term gains. CEO's beholden to the stockholder's who could care less about the employees who are trying to make a long term career out of the biz.

And that's why I stay away from stocks as an investment.

And I know it's an extreme position to take.

Like I said, take a hike....

I think you should take a hike....

You come here looking to make a quick buck off of the working stiffs you could care less about. Reminds me of management CEO types who come in to push the stock price up and get out, while those with a long term investment in the biz suffer from CEO's looking for short term gains. CEO's beholden to the stockholder's who could care less about the employees who are trying to make a long term career out of the biz.

And that's why I stay away from stocks as an investment.

And I know it's an extreme position to take.

Like I said, take a hike....

I thought this forum was for professional pilots not stock investors. I agree with you he should take a hike!!

I’ve been hearing a lot of chatter in various financial circles,( not the typical pilot rumor mill) of a possible buyout of World Airways by AAWW…I have no opinion or agenda regarding this matter, just wondering if any of u guys and gals have heard any similar rumors online? And if so, what have u heard and how valid do u think any of these claims r? Thx…

Most likely the chatter would be related to the SONAIR flying slated to be picked up by AAWW. I believe WOA flies the contract into May, then assuming AAWW has received the DOT blessing for pax ops, they will start the contract.

I think you should take a hike....

You come here looking to make a quick buck off of the working stiffs you could care less about. Reminds me of management CEO types who come in to push the stock price up and get out, while those with a long term investment in the biz suffer from CEO's looking for short term gains. CEO's beholden to the stockholder's who could care less about the employees who are trying to make a long term career out of the biz.

And that's why I stay away from stocks as an investment.

And I know it's an extreme position to take.

Like I said, take a hike....

I understand it's a natural human reaction to get defensive when presented with something that u don't understand...I get that, and since u obviously don't know much about investing..let me tell u a little about how this works...I'm long AAWW, I feel bullish on their stock and so I wrote May call option contracts on AAWW which means that I hope their stock rallies and does well and it's investors like me that will put a nice chunk of change in their pockets at the end of the year through their profit sharing program. If u think that somehow I'm up in purchase talking to AAWW management trying to formulate some pump and dump maneauver to screw crewmembers over, u have a wild immagination and have been watching too much tv my friend.

I have spent years flying beat up DC8s and 747 freighters all over the world and furloughed 5 times...if that doesn't make me a working stiff I don't know what does...And I'm not about to appologize for learning a trade that I have a nack for that yields me 5 times the cash I ever made flying airplanes...I AM NOT DOING THIS ON ANYONE ELSES BACK. and I never would...I simply look at moving averages an stocks channeling and come up with a hedging sratigy and enter my trade....not doing any inside dealing, not talking to management of any airline or any of these wild claims u feel I'm involved with.

Thank you for your insight...have a nice day

I think you should take a hike....

...

Like I said, take a hike....



Gosh! I remember the days I received warnings and infractions for saying things like that to APC members.:rolleyes:

Well, I guess I had a little too much scotch last night. Sorry 8. I guess I got this lynching started.

Like my Dad used to say, "Don't criticize someone until you have walked a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do, you are a mile away, and he has to chase you barefooted."

listen, I am not Gordon Geiko here...lol..I'm a small time options trader trying to pay my bills, not doing any inside trading or pump and dump maneuvers...not in with any wall street types looking to make money off anyone's misfortune..

That's one of the things I hate about these forums is that I'm sure if any of us were paired up together on a trip, for the most part we'd have a good time and prob end up being friends in person...but, for some strange reason, these aviation forums seem to do nothing but bring up negativity and bad feelings over the slightest little thing...I've never understoood that.

I think the purpose of a forum is to do exactly what I did last night and ask an honest question in hope of getting an honest answer...I think that the .02 percent of flamers on here make everyone question the validity of certain posts and ruin it for the rest of us..

I have nothing but the upmost respect for my fellow aviators, I'm one of u and would never screw any of u over....just trying to support my family the best way I know how.

Well, I guess I had a little too much scotch last night. Sorry 8. I guess I got this lynching started.

Like my Dad used to say, "Don't criticize someone until you have walked a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do, you are a mile away, and he has to chase you barefooted."

No prob walrus...I have been thinking about this and I think what is going on here is that the crewmembers on this forum have been screwed over so many times by management that everyone it just a little defensive and trigger happy towards anything that sounds like management, investors or any other group that has made money offf their misfortune...I totaly get that, and if I didn't understand the market and the type of trading a person like me was doing I would prob feel the same way. If I had it to do over again, I would have laid it out and explained exactly what I was doing with my call options on AAWW and how it was a positive bullish move for the company that would contribute to rally the stock of AAWW and put money in the crews pockets and help the company in the long run..I don't spend alot of time on these forums and there is def a learning curve...but, at least I can explaine myself now and hopefully we can all understand each othe...again, I'm not some suspender wearing, hair slicked back Gordon Geiko type...lol...I'm a card carying ALPA member, greesy freight dog like the rest of u:)

probably should just move this to the "Money Talk" forum

What strike price did you write the may contracts for?

probably should just move this to the "Money Talk" forum

What strike price did you write the may contracts for?

yeah, you're right, thx....im in the money May 45 strike calls

I am just saying, there is an obvious agenda on your end.


Yup, wants to make a buck to feed his family ..I wish I knew enough to trade like that. Sounds like fun , good luck Mr 8...

I've only dabbled in writing calls...

So when you write ITM contracts you're essentially reducing your premium for more downside protection? If you were bullish wouldn't you do better by selling ATM or OTM calls?

This is all pretty new to me

I've only dabbled in writing calls...

So when you write ITM contracts you're essentially reducing your premium for more downside protection? If you were bullish wouldn't you do better by selling ATM or OTM calls?

This is all pretty new to me

for the most part I like to run credit spreads...for example the bull put spread where I'll short an out of the money put and also go long an out of the money put farther out of the money building a credit to my acct...ie the term credit spread...as long as the underlying value of the stock stays above the shorted put and I'm out of the money, I keep the credit to my account...u can do the same exact thing with calls if u r bearish and this is called a bear call spread, but for the most part, I like to do a combination of these two on the same stock which is called an iron condor and I actually have 4 options on the same stock...I'll also go long or short a call and a put on the same stock which is called a strangle, usually with this I'm looking for volitility and I dont care which way the stock moves as long as I'm in the money for example if I longed the call and the put...usually well played on a high beta high volitile stock after earnings...I also do pair trades where I will find two stock of the same sector and buy calls on one and puts on the other, when I c the market reacting one way, I'll play the winning stock and offset or sell the other...these r all hedging stratigies that I use..U always have to hedge to cover your backside...for example right now I'm long May NKE 70 strike calls in the money, the pps target has been raised to 84 bucks, now I purchased the nke 70 strike call for around 4 dollars, so my break even is around 74 dollars..however, to cover my backside I also went long in the money 75 strike protective puts that were really cheap and yes it raises my total premium and break even point; however, if something blindsides me out of nowhere and the stock falls to 60 dollars I'm covered on the put side as well..so yes, using these hedging stratigies overall reduces my yeilds...but in my opinion it reduces my risk considerably as well

I've only dabbled in writing calls...

So when you write ITM contracts you're essentially reducing your premium for more downside protection? If you were bullish wouldn't you do better by selling ATM or OTM calls?

This is all pretty new to me

And yes, u r right on in certain situations; however, remember that when u buy in the money your premiums r going to b higher than at the money or out of the money...If AAWW is trading for 53 dollars and u want to buy the May 45 strike calls, the premium is going to cost u 8.10 in the money; however, the 55 strike out of the money is going to cost only .95 cents...so u can buy way more shares; but, in this example your break even point is going to b a few bucks higher...so yes u feel bullish, the question u have to ask is how bullish do u feel? I'm not good at explaning this stuff and I suck at getting my point across in this medium as u have seen from this thread..lol...I'm sorry if I'm all over the place...but basicly u have to look at the stock, the cost of the premiums, what your break even point is going to b...and each trade is unique in its own way....Some times u buy in the money and sometimes out and sometimes at...does that make sence?

Feel free to send me an Im and I'll email u some material that explains this and answers your questions better than I can.

Sent you a PM, thanks

I understand it's a natural human reaction to get defensive when presented with something that u don't understand...I get that, and since u obviously don't know much about investing..let me tell u a little about how this works...I'm long AAWW, I feel bullish on their stock and so I wrote May call option contracts on AAWW which means that I hope their stock rallies and does well and it's investors like me that will put a nice chunk of change in their pockets at the end of the year through their profit sharing program. If u think that somehow I'm up in purchase talking to AAWW management trying to formulate some pump and dump maneauver to screw crewmembers over, u have a wild immagination and have been watching too much tv my friend.

I have spent years flying beat up DC8s and 747 freighters all over the world and furloughed 5 times...if that doesn't make me a working stiff I don't know what does...And I'm not about to appologize for learning a trade that I have a nack for that yields me 5 times the cash I ever made flying airplanes...I AM NOT DOING THIS ON ANYONE ELSES BACK. and I never would...I simply look at moving averages an stocks channeling and come up with a hedging sratigy and enter my trade....not doing any inside dealing, not talking to management of any airline or any of these wild claims u feel I'm involved with.

Thank you for your insight...have a nice day

<<so I wrote May call option contracts on AAWW which means that I hope their stock rallies>>

WRONG. When you write a call, you sell it. Call writing is a bearish position to take. If the stock goes up you either have to have written a covered call or buy the shares on the open market and sell them at the strike price and LOSE MONEY. Let's hear you rationalize this? I vote with the others. You don't know what you're doing. Ill explain it to you.

CAL Tanker,
You write calls under two strategies:

Expect them to expire worthless and collect the premium (stock either declines, stays the same same or rises but not to your strike)

Expect them to rise, collect the premium and the difference in sale value.

Either way, writing calls should be either a neutral or bullish strategy... if the stock is declining the premiums are going to be low anyway. I've only ever written calls on my long positions.

His strategies are spreads which are a lot more complex

<<so I wrote May call option contracts on AAWW which means that I hope their stock rallies>>

WRONG. When you write a call, you sell it. Call writing is a bearish position to take. If the stock goes up you either have to have written a covered call or buy the shares on the open market and sell them at the strike price and LOSE MONEY. Let's hear you rationalize this? I vote with the others. You don't know what you're doing. Ill explain it to you.

u can short a call or go long a call in out or at the money boss...if u short a call as u say, yeah, that's a bearish stratigy sure and u want to stay out of the money, but that's not what I was doing....I'm running credit spreads using in out and at the money stratigies...ON AAWW I WAS LONG CALLS...I BOUGHT THE CALLS WHICH IS A BULLISH STRATIGY....i was also running out of the money credit spreads..ie, the bull put spread to b precise.. which I short and go long out of the money puts with matching experation dates building a credit to my acct which is also a bullish stratigy

can u not go long a call and buy the call CAL tanker? would that not b bullish? Is that not what I did with AAWW? When did I ever say I shorted a call? the only reference to that I made was my example of the Iron Condor stratigy I use where I short a call, short a put, go long a call and go long a put and have 4 options on one stock

I think I might have confused u when I used the term "wright" I should have said bought or long, u r not wrighting a call, I c where u r getting confused now after rereading the post.....so to clarify my stratigy, I was long in the money calls expecting the stock to rally...also, I don't think u r understanding the fact that like PW03 was saying, I'm not simply buying and shorting calls and puts here, I'm running credit spread options which r a tad bit more complex.

I think I might have confused u when I used the term "wright" I should have said bought or long, u r not writing a call, I c where u r getting confused now after rereading the post.....so to clarify my strategy, I was long in the money calls expecting the stock to rally...also, I don't think u r understanding the fact that like PW03 was saying, I'm not simply buying and shorting calls and puts here, I'm running credit spread options which r a tad bit more complex.


You didn't confuse me. You said you "wrote" the calls (I even highlighted the quote in my original post). This is not a simple mistake. It can be rather expensive. Either you write them (wrote is past tense for write), or you buy them. Period, end of rationalization. For the guy who questioned whether it was a bullish or bearish move, study for the series 7 and or 4 and this will require you answer several questions regarding this trade strategy. A credit or debit spread is really quite simple. The only way to get it as a credit is by staggering the strike for the delta or the month for theta. I'm not bashing here. Just trying to help educate. I won't go into my credentials. Suffice it to say I have an ATP. I wish you frequent tailwinds and to be on the favorable side of the trade. Over and out.

You didn't confuse me. You said you "wrote" the calls (I even highlighted the quote in my original post). This is not a simple mistake. It can be rather expensive. Either you write them (wrote is past tense for write), or you buy them. Period, end of rationalization. For the guy who questioned whether it was a bullish or bearish move, study for the series 7 and or 4 and this will require you answer several questions regarding this trade strategy. A credit or debit spread is really quite simple. The only way to get it as a credit is by staggering the strike for the delta or the month for theta. I'm not bashing here. Just trying to help educate. I won't go into my credentials. Suffice it to say I have an ATP. I wish you frequent tailwinds and to be on the favorable side of the trade. Over and out.

And I wish u the same my friend...I was typing fast and used the word "wright" instead of "buy" my mistake....and yes, if u executed the trade that way u r right, that would b a disasterous mistake....If u go back and read my previous posts, u will c one of the first things i said was that I was not a good teacher and not the best at explaining this stuff...I actually admit I kind of suck when it comes to explaining things...but, in the same way that I can't out of memory rattle off the FAR AIM with all the correct terminology doesn't mean that I can't strap into my 747 and fly to HKG safely and collect a nice paycheck at the end of the month..a pilot might not b cut out to b a check airmain but can at the same time b a verry tallented line captain.well, trading for me is the same for me, alot of what I do comes from learning what works and doesn't work by losing money in the real world..making mistakes and learning what I have to do not to make them again...alot of it I can't explaine like I'm a Harvard biz grad...but, I do make a ton of cash doing this and I know what works and what doesn't work. I appreciate your post and your clarification on the terminology and wish u the same tailwinds.