Airline Pilot Forums

Just being reported. CNBC Analyst says, "You're taking two awful airlines and combining them into something worse"

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/united-and-us-airways-hold-merger-talks/?hp

Ah - that explains this article yesterday:

US Airways:Pilot Contract Threatens Merger | Transportation | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com (http://www.thestreet.com/story/10718204/1/us-airways-pilot-contract-threatens-merger.html)

which basically said that the US Airways pilot contract (and thus union) was "blocking any merger" which was completely not true. Their contract just has the pay rates "snap back" to higher rates if there is a change of control.

Parker just can't get enough dance partners.....or maybe in this case a life vest. Can you imagine the SLI of UAL and UsAir? OMG! What a DISASTER!!! :eek:

One word: YUCK.

No one will be happy. The new airline should be called: Grumpy Old Airline.


Probably a smokescreen for the UAL/CAL merger.

I think they are both afraid that the quarterly report will show that both carriers have taken a beating this quarter.

The BOD will want a change or some heads.

This merger rhetoric is the change they will describe as the method to "return to profitability."

I predict Parker to sell out and parachute out into the golden abyss.

Meanwhile, USAir. AWA, and United will be left holding the pieces, and with Tilton to boot.

Either that or this is a play by Tilton to force CALs hand.

If CAL jumps, a CAL-UA merger will occur, followed shortly afterwards by a AA/USAir merger.

I just thought about this mess a bit.

Aren't there a bunch of AWA (Westies) on furlough?

What will happen on a merged seniority list with Westies that are on the streets when they are supposed to be above the guys at US Air. Now they are on the streets during a merger, what will happen then?

I know what USAir guys will say: DOH baby!

If the contract snaps back to a pre-911 contract, perhaps it will be good for everyone in the industry.

"...deep in merger discussions..."

Looks like this could be a done deal. Interesting times!

Either that or this is a play by Tilton to force CALs hand.


We have a winner.

Either that or this is a play by Tilton to force CALs hand.

That or UA can't wait any longer for CAL and is going with the last girl at the prom, USAir.

does this mean a merger between ual and cal is imminent?

does this mean a merger between ual and cal is imminent?

I certainly hope not.

I feel for the UAL and UsAir folks if this thing does happen.

What a frigging mess and two moron CEO's left to try and run it.

I certainly hope not.

I feel for the UAL and UsAir folks if this thing does happen.

What a frigging mess and two moron CEO's left to try and run it.

You and I both know our M&A CEO has already made the phone call to Glenn...

I don't know what's worse: dancing with the ugly chick or dancing all alone. We will know soon!

Don't forget Jeffy : FUPM!

At least we can turn this into a drinking game:

Everyone take a shot whenever someone from management uses the word "synergy".

At least we can turn this into a drinking game:

Everyone take a shot whenever someone from management uses the word "synergy".

Do you plan on dying of alcohol poisoning in the first 90 seconds?

Ah - that explains this article yesterday:

US Airways:Pilot Contract Threatens Merger | Transportation | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com (http://www.thestreet.com/story/10718204/1/us-airways-pilot-contract-threatens-merger.html)

which basically said that the US Airways pilot contract (and thus union) was "blocking any merger" which was completely not true. Their contract just has the pay rates "snap back" to higher rates if there is a change of control.

How about if USAir buys UAL? Doogie Parker will still be in control, so.... no snap back?

Well, hang on...When these stories start hitting the news, that means that lots are in the works. Time to look forward to months of confirmations, denials and politics. My best wishes to the employees.

shows to go the so-called infallibility of capitalism:rolleyes:

One word: YUCK.

No one will be happy. The new airline should be called: Grumpy Old Airline.


Probably a smokescreen for the UAL/CAL merger.

I know those of us at AA will be happy. All the gossip has been we were supposed to merge with US........

AA

How about if USAir buys UAL? Doogie Parker will still be in control, so.... no snap back?

DP did go out of his way to bring up what would happen in the event of a merger with respect to LOA 93.

Parker brought it up, without being asked:

"There can't be a merger that triggers that provision, because if there is the other side won't do it." - DP 3/17/10

sorry guys but to keep this thread alive there needs to be something said about Delta. Well ok- how about tiger woods:o

5:20 p.m. | Updated The UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge, in a potential deal that would create one of the world’s largest airlines, people briefed on the matter told DealBook on Wednesday....

Jean Medina, a United spokeswoman, and Andrew Christie, a US Airways spokesman, declined to comment.

Deniable rumors from un-named sources? Sounds like a maneuver to me, and there are lots of suspects who are better at maneuvering than merging or managing airlines. :rolleyes:

So what happens when a ALPA carrier merges with a non ALPA carrier???

And the surviving airline is an ALPA carrier?

So how does AA and CAL look? Either CAL will go after United now or they will look at AA.

sorry guys but to keep this thread alive there needs to be something said about Delta. Well ok- how about tiger woods:o

the only thing to be said about Delta is they will have to start taking those signs down saying they are the "largest airline"

So how does AA and CAL look?


CAL will still be in the STAR alliance....

So how does AA and CAL look?

Regulatory nightmare that would never get past the DOT. EWR/JFK/LGA, CLE/ORD, IAH/DFW

So what happens when a ALPA carrier merges with a non ALPA carrier???

And the surviving airline is an ALPA carrier?

AP source: United, US Airways in merger talks - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-source-United-US-Airways-apf-2207306155.html?x=0&.v=8)

Integrating their unionized work forces would be one of the most difficult tasks if they got together. The person who spoke to AP said the companies have a plan for dealing with that issue.

They have a plan... Rut Roh!!

It's DOH with a fence.

So what happens when a ALPA carrier merges with a non ALPA carrier???

And the surviving airline is an ALPA carrier?

There would be a vote to determine the surviving union. Question is how many UAL guys are behind the decert drive at UAL...

There would be a vote to determine the surviving union. Question is how many UAL guys are behind the decert drive at UAL...

In the event of a seniority list integration if both sides cannot reach an agreement then they have to go to arbitration. Research the Bond-McKaskill amendment.

In the event of a seniority list integration if both sides cannot reach an agreement then they have to go to arbitration. Research the Bond-McKaskill amendment.


Because arbitration worked sooo well the first time.....:rolleyes:

the only thing to be said about Delta is they will have to start taking those signs down saying they are the "largest airline"

a) We don't want to be the largest. We just want more money.
b) You didn't actually read the article, did you? This (hypothetical) merger would create the #2 airline.
c) I sure didn't think other airlines would sit on their hands. I welcome more mergers. I think they have the potential to clean up the market place, and help everyone make more money. That would be fine with me.

One word: YUCK.

No one will be happy. The new airline should be called: Grumpy Old Airline.


Probably a smokescreen for the UAL/CAL merger.

Agree 100%. This is designed to make CAL flinch.

AMR/CAL will cost to many jobs and UAUA/LCC will be in the same boat with DCA and IAD. Both would not pass muster.

I know the UAL guys are against this. How do the US, East and West, folks feel?

UAL tried to merge with USAirways back in 2000. It was rejected by the DOJ. What has changed that they think it will be approved this time? DAL/NWA merger was approved since then so I guess I answered my own question.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/36236115

Here's the CNBC Commentary.

According to these yahoos, US Air would most likely be the acquiring company, but they seem skeptical it will actually happen.

We'll see.

Deniable rumors from un-named sources? Sounds like a maneuver to me, and there are lots of suspects who are better at maneuvering than merging or managing airlines. :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more. The leak does add to the pressure to get something done. Also, from UAL's viewpoint, I see no downside: a) this makes CAL want to talk about more agreeable terms (I assume they've been in a good position to play hard to get get, until now) , or b) it does happen, and the next team to partner up doesn't have a lot of good options.

I have little doubt the next merger will make a strong competitor to DAL (I think UAL/CAL with STAR would in fact be stronger), but what's actually going to be fun is the third pairing. Whether it is AMR/LCC or AMR/CAL, I don't imagine it would go very smoothly. Which makes me think one of the four above makes some sort of different move, such as going w/ JBLU, and that leaves one of the legacies on the mat.

As an aside, I wager LUV probably wouldn't sit still. I'm holding some AAI stock based on that guess.

LUV is working very hard right now to weaken AAI. That makes sense from a strategic standpoint.

Having been through a few mergers, this is the merger-palooza where absolutely NO one will be happy. The US/PI/PSA merger was ugly and the US/AmWest proved the bar could actually be raised for sheer ugly. This is sort of like ugly, uglier, ugliest.

Fences? There won't be enough wood to construct all the fences.

One thing for sure... there should be a strong BUY signal for K-Y jelly.

Having been through a few mergers, this is the merger-palooza where absolutely NO one will be happy. The US/PI/PSA merger was ugly and the US/AmWest proved the bar could actually be raised for sheer ugly. This is sort of like ugly, uglier, ugliest.

Fences? There won't be enough wood to construct all the fences.

One thing for sure... there should be a strong BUY signal for K-Y jelly.

With crude back to $87/bbl, petroleum-based products are too expensive. For the next merger, pilots will be instructed to spit in their hands, and spread it around a little.:rolleyes:

UAL tried to merge with USAirways back in 2000. It was rejected by the DOJ. What has changed that they think it will be approved this time? DAL/NWA merger was approved since then so I guess I answered my own question.

You want to know what changed since 2000?

Everything.

UAL/AAA may be a big cluster ****, but it would be the largest domestic carrier by market share.
RITA | BTS | Transtats (http://www.transtats.bts.gov/)
And they already have a domestic code share in place, so they have a head start. The problem, as always will be the sli. Can you imagine the look on the East guy's faces when the top XXX slots go to UAL because of the number of widebodies UAL has? The top 400 slots went to East during the AmWest merger because of East's widebodies.;)

With crude back to $87/bbl, petroleum-based products are too expensive. For the next merger, pilots will be instructed to spit in their hands, and spread it around a little.:rolleyes:


Just about fell outta my chair laughing!!!!!! That was awesome!!:D

That or UA can't wait any longer for CAL and is going with the last girl at the prom, USAir.

This one made me smile. One friend of mine's theory at the bar was always to "go ugly early"

:)

UAL/AAA may be a big cluster ****, but it would be the largest domestic carrier by market share.
RITA | BTS | Transtats (http://www.transtats.bts.gov/)
The top 400 slots went to East during the AmWest merger because of East's widebodies.;)

It was actually 500. But that wasen't fair enough for the easties. Remember, us westies got the windfall.. :rolleyes:

It was actually 500. But that wasen't fair enough for the easties. Remember, us westies got the windfall.. :rolleyes:

I stand corrected. I wonder how it would look with UAL (113 w/b) and AAA (26 w/b)?

United Airlines parent UAL Corp. and US Airways are in advanced discussions about a merger, The New York Times reported on its website Wednesday. It cited "people briefed on the matter." Spokespersons for both airlines declined to comment to this website, citing company policy. The two companies tried to merge before: In May 2000 UA agreed to acquire US in a transaction that valued US at $4.3 billion. However, the Dept. of Justice refused to okay the merger and United backed away from the deal in the summer of 2001. Both carriers entered Chapter 11 following 9/11 and US eventually was acquired by America West in 2005, with the US Airways name surviving. UA Chairman and CEO Glenn Tilton has called for industry consolidation, as has US Chairman and CEO Doug Parker. US made an ultimately unsuccessful bid for Delta Air Lines in November 2006.

ATW Daily News (http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=4%2F8%2F2010)

:eek:Talking about a marriage made in hell, adding the UAL pilot group to the whole "East and West" debacle

This is all a smoke screen right now....very possible CAL merger in the end ....all 3 will be involved eventually, but we just do not know how yet.

Interesting though as United shops for 100 seaters to replace the 737's they parked, now an airline that is possible to merge with has the EMB 190 certificate...hmmmm??

Isn't it like mixing potassium nitrate and gasoline together, all you need then is a match and.......BOOM :) Insanity rules in this industry.

Look like Glenn Tilton is desperate for his big payday.

It' the only reason why he want thi Merge.

Nothing was even announced except media speculation they are in talks...talks...talks. A merger was not announced.

::: YAWN :::

Slow news day? Put out press release about two partys talking.

Wake me when there is a new paint job on the airplanes. Till then, BFD!!!

The New York Times this afternoon published a story that reports that “UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge.” The story went on to say that United and US Airways “are deep in their merger discussions, though a transaction is not expected to be announced for at least several weeks.”

The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

As further substantiated information becomes available, we will pass it along. Please monitor your email inboxes for more from MEC Communications

I have a gut feeling that there will be a merger...3 airlines involved...2 will stand....and, an EMB190 certificate will end up parted out to United, so the 100 seaters can get ordered.

2 ALPA carriers...1 non ALPA carrier.....

Not sure if I would want to be on the LCC side of the fence.

The New York Times this afternoon published a story that reports that “UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge.” The story went on to say that United and US Airways “are deep in their merger discussions, though a transaction is not expected to be announced for at least several weeks.”

The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

As further substantiated information becomes available, we will pass it along. Please monitor your email inboxes for more from MEC Communications


CNBC says UAL confirms ongoing talks, Who is BSing Who?

Agree 100%. This is designed to make CAL flinch.

AMR/CAL will cost to many jobs and UAUA/LCC will be in the same boat with DCA and IAD. Both would not pass muster.

Whats that do for the proposed slot swap?

The New York Times this afternoon published a story that reports that “UAL Corporation, the parent of United Airlines, and US Airways are in talks to merge.” The story went on to say that United and US Airways “are deep in their merger discussions, though a transaction is not expected to be announced for at least several weeks.”

The United Master Executive Council has confirmed that this report is speculation. While talks could develop at some future date, with US Airways or any other carrier, presently there are no meaningful merger discussions with US Airways.

Our position on mergers remains unchanged. We are opposed to any merger that is not beneficial to the careers and the long-term future of United pilots. We vehemently oppose any merger that would not lead to a stronger and viable United Airlines. This position has been once again, as recently as this evening, been made clear to the CEO of United Airlines.

As further substantiated information becomes available, we will pass it along. Please monitor your email inboxes for more from MEC Communications

oh CRAP, Shrek....I thought it WAS just speculation until I saw this official denial from the MEC!!! That means almost certainly that a deal is imminent!!:D

I have a gut feeling that there will be a merger...3 airlines involved...2 will stand....and, an EMB190 certificate will end up parted out to United, so the 100 seaters can get ordered.

2 ALPA carriers...1 non ALPA carrier.....

Not sure if I would want to be on the LCC side of the fence.
I don't work for either company and I am an ALPA member but, I'm not sure working for an ALPA airline did the USAir guys any good the first time around. Also it seems to me that United can't be too interested in the old America West assets seeing they have such a big presence in the West. So if they were going to break something off wouldn't it be the America West stuff?

That'd be my bet: merger with East, West basically dismantled.

So what happens when a ALPA carrier merges with a non ALPA carrier???

SLI integration done using Allegheny/Mohawk protocols. Union representation determined by a representation election. In this case there would be three choices: ALPA, USAPA and no union.

That'd be my bet: merger with East, West basically dismantled.

Of course the West could be sold off to someone. Delta? Alaska? Air Tran?

I don't work for either company and I am an ALPA member but, I'm not sure working for an ALPA airline did the USAir guys any good the first time around. Also it seems to me that United can't be too interested in the old America West assets seeing they have such a big presence in the West. So if they were going to break something off wouldn't it be the America West stuff?

I would agree with that....I do not know the details of them just cutting off the West folks.

CAL is not out of this picture yet either.

SLI integration done using Allegheny/Mohawk protocols. Union representation determined by a representation election. In this case there would be three choices: ALPA, USAPA and no union.



Of course the West could be sold off to someone. Delta? Alaska? Air Tran?

I will keep looking for the West on E-bay.

From another forum, but it's too good not to share:

Tim Martins was on CNBC today. He stopped all current and future airline mergers simply by scowling, without saying a word!

After leaving the CNBC studios, Martins broke the world record for crossing the Atlantic in an RJ.

I don't work for either company and I am an ALPA member but, I'm not sure working for an ALPA airline did the USAir guys any good the first time around. Also it seems to me that United can't be too interested in the old America West assets seeing they have such a big presence in the West. So if they were going to break something off wouldn't it be the America West stuff?


I think the USAir/east pilots saw this coming and wisely took the route they took. Maybe it will prove out to be wrong, I don't know.

I do know the UAL pilots hold DOH as dear to their hearts as the USAir folks do.

Maybe this will help stop these crazy list combinations dictated by people who have never even flown an airplane.

Like I said, what do I know.

One word: YUCK.

No one will be happy. The new airline should be called: Grumpy Old Airline.

Probably a smokescreen for the UAL/CAL merger.

That was exactly what Gordon Bethune opined this evening on the Kudlow report (Thursday 4/8).

Personally, I think Glen Tilton is simply trying to escalate the merger process with...whomever. Probably Continental but to him, it doesn't matter. He was brought to the boardroom to effect a merger and maximize shareholder value under any circumstances.

Now that contract negotiations are in full bloom with all of United's key unions, it's a great time to "do the deal", take the profits and leave. I doubt that Glen really cares who ends up dancing with whom. Not his concern and his focus is rather singular in purpose. Accomplish my mission and make a$ much money as I can.

Just my two cents worth...devalued to $ .0069876 on today's market.

G'Luck...everyone !:)

That was exactly what Gordon Bethune opined this evening on the Kudlow report (Thursday 4/8).

Personally, I think Glen Tilton is simply trying to escalate the merger process with...whomever. Probably Continental but to him, it doesn't matter. He was brought to the boardroom to effect a merger and maximize shareholder value under any circumstances.

Now that contract negotiations are in full bloom with all of United's key unions, it's a great time to "do the deal", take the profits and leave. I doubt that Glen really cares who ends up dancing with whom. Not his concern and his focus is rather singular in purpose. Accomplish my mission and make a$ much money as I can.

Just my two cents worth...devalued to $ .0069876 on today's market.

G'Luck...everyone !:)

When you peel away all the layers, this is spot on. Glenn doesn't give a rats ass what deal (CAL or LCC) pays him. He just wants to get paid.

When you peel away all the layers, this is spot on. Glenn doesn't give a rats ass what deal (CAL or LCC) pays him. He just wants to get paid.

What would sound better on the golf course.........

1. I created the largest airline in the world - huge international presence and got an injunction on those pesky pilots......... I am retired with oodles of cash. Nice swan song.........or

2. I helped create the number 2 airline behind Delta. After 5 years it will STILL be trying to realize my ideas on SYNERGEEZ...... I am retired with oodles of cash. Oh well - time to tee off.

For him to have the ego he has he wants bragging rights for his last time at bat. Either way he is rich ..........

TEMPE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today announced that it has discontinued recent discussions with UAL Corporation (NASDAQ: UAUA) regarding a potential merger between the two companies.

US Airways Statement Regarding Merger Discussions | Business Wire (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100422006137&newsLang=en)