Airline Pilot Forums

I'm in the midst of applying to a few airlines, and I'm wondering what exactly needs to be disclosed and what doesn't. Some apps ask about "training failures", and I would think that since those records are not on file with the FAA (a MV, for example), they need not be disclosed. Do airlines share that information, or does the prospective employer only have access to the FAA records? Of course, many of you will say "just be honest and disclose everything", but if a record truly cannot be shared, why disclose it and open yourself up to questioning?

Disclose everything.

If it's a moving violation, it'll show up during your NDR search. If it's a violation or LOI or something, it'll show up with your FAA records. If it's a checkride bust or line check failure or something, it'll show up during your PRIA check.

Disclosing it during the interview and turning it into a learning experience is WAY better than being pulled out of class and fired because you 'forgot' about that one time at band camp...

Do your research on a law called the "Pilot Records Improvement Act." Basically your new employer will request a copy of your previous employers personnel file. While there might be some limitations about what is disclosed, the HR Dept at my former airline just took my entire file and dumped it in their photocopier. Training records certainly get forwarded, along with attendance and in my case they sent all my old background search info which included a traffic citation which had dropped off the NDR (glad I went the extra mile on disclosure).

My 100% recommendation is to be an open book... take ownership and explain what you learned from any mistakes.

The only person with a perfect file is someone who has not done a whole lot. Experience is a tough teacher. Your next employer will be more assured that you got your mistakes behind you.

P.S. Just noticed you said a "MV." Do you mean you needed additional training on a Maneuvers Evaluation, or was it a check ride bust? Getting an additional sim is not a "failure."

Thanks so much for the info. In my case, I've had two issues; one was a busted LOE, and the other, an MV (Maneuvers Validation (AQP)). I know the LOE has got to be on record, but being that the MV was a "training event", I'm sure that the only place it can be found is in the company records. The reason for my question, is that I spoke with an FAA guy recently who said that company records are confidential. Therefore, I had to wonder whether disclosing training info on an airline app was necessary. All airlines that I've applied to thus far, have asked about failing a "training" ride. My gut is telling me to open up and disclose ALL, but I'm wondering...are my chances at a major airline job pretty much shot in the current hiring environment due to those failures? Will multiple internal recs pull any weight to help my situation, or will these issues likely knock my app out of the mix before it even gets to that point?

Great recommendation, but do you think a pilot will ever get the opportunity to even "take ownership and explain what you learned from any mistakes" if their application shows previous failures?

If it's a moving violation, it'll show up during your NDR search.

This is not correct. A simple moving violation is NOT part of the NDR database. The NDR only contains information about drivers who have had their licenses revoked or suspended, or who have been convicted of serious traffic violations such as DUI.

In terms of the interview process, my unpopular advice is to disclose only that information which is available to the employer. Educate yourself on what that is and don't rely on the misinformation that you are likely to find on these forums. An interview for your dream job is not the time to lay out all your dirty laundry and break out all the skeletons in your closet.

This is not correct. A simple moving violation is NOT part of the NDR database. The NDR only contains information about drivers who have had their licenses revoked or suspended, or who have been convicted of serious traffic violations such as DUI.

In terms of the interview process, my unpopular advice is to disclose only that information which is available to the employer. Educate yourself on what that is and don't rely on the misinformation that you are likely to find on these forums. An interview for your dream job is not the time to lay out all your dirty laundry and break out all the skeletons in your closet.

Excellent advice. How exactly though does one find out what information is available to the potential employer? Take Delta for example. From what I'm reading on these forums, they will find absolutely anything and everything you've ever done. Do I disclose a failed "stage check" from my college days? An LOE where I was never handed a pink slip?

Excellent advice. How exactly though does one find out what information is available to the potential employer? Take Delta for example. From what I'm reading on these forums, they will find absolutely anything and everything you've ever done. Do I disclose a failed "stage check" from my college days? An LOE where I was never handed a pink slip?

You don't have to disclose a failed stage check or grad ride from college. Definitely disclose any FAA checkride failures. From your airline, disclose any line checks you may have failed and sim checks. The LOE would fall under this, but not the MV since that's a training event. Hope this helps.

This is not correct. A simple moving violation is NOT part of the NDR database. The NDR only contains information about drivers who have had their licenses revoked or suspended, or who have been convicted of serious traffic violations such as DUI.

In terms of the interview process, my unpopular advice is to disclose only that information which is available to the employer. Educate yourself on what that is and don't rely on the misinformation that you are likely to find on these forums. An interview for your dream job is not the time to lay out all your dirty laundry and break out all the skeletons in your closet.

Great Advice!

But only one problem...how do you know EXACTLY what is and is not available to airline employers? It would take a lot of research and not all of that info is readily available to the public.

If you are a typical pilot with maybe a busted checkride at one point and a speeding ticket or two over the years I believe honesty is the best policy.

If you fail to disclose something, and it DOES turn up on the background check here is what will happen...

You will interview, get a job offer, and accept. You will give notice to your old employer, and then report for training at your new job. Since not all new hires actually show up, airlines don't spend the money doing background checks until AFTER you stat training (the checks don't need to be completed until you fly the line, which will take a couple months). About two weeks into ground school, you will be pulled out of class, taken to a managers office and FIRED on the spot.

Now your old job is long gone, and you have been fired from an airline for lying about your background...you are almost certainly finished in 121 aviation before you even get started. Go get a night air ambulance job for $30K and start drinking heavily...you have a long way to go to age 65 or whenever you can collect social security.

If you have an extensive track record of problems (or a serious problem) in your past maybe you do need to try to figure out what info to disclose. But I would only go there if you are certain that disclosing the issue will keep you from getting hired. It's better to not get hired and try again at another company than get hired and then promptly fired.

Generally honesty is the best policy.

As to the original question FAA checkride failures and airline training failures will definitely get reported to new airline employers vie the PRIA process.

PRIA is limited to 5 yrs back.

..how do you know EXACTLY what is and is not available to airline employers? It would take a lot of research and not all of that info is readily available to the public.

Oh come on.... research is incredibly easy nowadays. What to research depends on what it is you would rather not disclose. A simple visit to the NDR website will put your mind at ease if you are concerned about running a red light 3 years ago. If you're concerned about a termination at your flying job back in 2004, well... it took all of 45 seconds to find AC-120-68C and verify that PRIA only goes back five years.

For some applicants, honesty is the best policy. For others, you will only hurt yourself by volunteering information.

Does anyone know what happens when a company goes bankrupt, and out of business, 2-3 years past. Where does one find those records. I've had several companies go tits up, going back ten years. I still put them on my paperwork, but to try and find these records after ten years.....

Does anyone know what happens when a company goes bankrupt, and out of business, 2-3 years past. Where does one find those records. I've had several companies go tits up, going back ten years. I still put them on my paperwork, but to try and find these records after ten years.....

There is usually an administrator that is assigned to do those things for 1 year after the bankruptcy proceedings have finished. Since BK proceedings usually take a couple or more yrs, you might still be in luck. If it has been more than 5 yrs, don't worry about it. PRIA only goes back 5 yrs.

If you cant get anything and it has been less than 5 yrs, most HR depts will accept an old pay stub or copy of your company ID or a reference from someone that knew you during that employment period.

You don't have to disclose a failed stage check or grad ride from college. Definitely disclose any FAA checkride failures. From your airline, disclose any line checks you may have failed and sim checks. The LOE would fall under this, but not the MV since that's a training event. Hope this helps.

That definitely helps, thank you. My issue is that unfortunately I have failures that "count" in the FAA's eyes; my first attempt at my first type, and an LOE bust. I do believe there was an MV several years back that required extra training to get through as well. It's very clear that I've dug myself a bit of a hole, and I'm basically just concerned how, and if, I should answer a few of the app questions. Obviously I need to disclose the Type failure and the LOE. Hopefully my refs will get a call and help me through that. I keep hearing differing views though on whether to disclose "training events". While the prospective employer does ask about failed training, I would hope it would be something you could talk your way through if they indeed found the info. In your opinion, do you think disclosing ONLY the LOE and Type failures is a safe enough thing to do? I do have 3 internal recs, so I'm just prayin' that disclosing these things won't kill my chances at an interview. It always seems to me that getting the interview is half the battle.

For some applicants, honesty is the best policy. For others, you will only hurt yourself by volunteering information.

Well thanks for that! Haha. I'm still trying to figure out which type of applicant I am. Be 100% honest and disclose everything, or spare a few details and hope the info is never dug up. I guess thats the million dollar question. What will they look for and find, and what will stay buried in a guys records and never be found?

That definitely helps, thank you. My issue is that unfortunately I have failures that "count" in the FAA's eyes; my first attempt at my first type, and an LOE bust. I do believe there was an MV several years back that required extra training to get through as well. It's very clear that I've dug myself a bit of a hole, and I'm basically just concerned how, and if, I should answer a few of the app questions. Obviously I need to disclose the Type failure and the LOE. Hopefully my refs will get a call and help me through that. I keep hearing differing views though on whether to disclose "training events". While the prospective employer does ask about failed training, I would hope it would be something you could talk your way through if they indeed found the info. In your opinion, do you think disclosing ONLY the LOE and Type failures is a safe enough thing to do? I do have 3 internal recs, so I'm just prayin' that disclosing these things won't kill my chances at an interview. It always seems to me that getting the interview is half the battle.

I know at Delta the MV is graded as either complete or incomplete. If you don't complete a maneuver to standards, you are allowed two repeats (either two repeats on one maneuver or one repeat on two maneuvers). If you exceed these, then the MV is graded as incomplete. You are re-trained and go through the MV again. The LOE is a sat/unsat grade and no repeats or training can go on. I'm sure this is pretty standard for any AQP airline. In other words, I wouldn't list the MV, but I would definitely list any line checks, FAA checkrides, type rides, proficiency checks, or LOE's. Am I missing anything? :) Good luck and I'm glad we can help!

Well thanks for that! Haha. I'm still trying to figure out which type of applicant I am. Be 100% honest and disclose everything, or spare a few details and hope the info is never dug up. I guess thats the million dollar question. What will they look for and find, and what will stay buried in a guys records and never be found?

My comment was not meant as an insult. Many of us have made mistakes that we would rather learn from on a personal level and not discuss in an interview.

PRIA is NOT the issue here. When you get hired at the vast majority of airlines these days, you sign a release for information from AFS-760. As RickAir stated, a packet will arrive during your new hire training with every piece of paper ever submitted to the FAA (written scores, 8710s, requests for lost/stolen certificates, you name it, they have it). Notices of Disapprovals are readily available, including the reason for failure.


Prior to Colgan 3407, most airlines had applicants sign this waiver but never followed through. You can bet that many are now requesting your full "jacket." I highly, highly recommend that all pilots request this information for their own reference. It's about .10 a page, payable to the FAA, and takes about four weeks to process. There will eventually be a new pilot records database with real-time access, but we're not there yet.


That being said, I can't stand how litigious the airlines have gotten. Unless you can't meet standards repeatedly, it shouldn't matter that you busted chandelles on your commercial. Ridiculous.

The issue is what you should disclose to a potential employer. That may or may not include an FAA record.

Most airline new hire training classes will have a guy get pulled out 2-3 weeks into training. It happened in both of mine. This is is not a hypothetical or theoretical discussion, it's a very real issue.

Ultimately, the individual has to decide for himself. But also be aware that even if you do make it through the background check, that may not always be the end of it. Does your future ex-wife know about the incident in question? If she makes a phone call to the company five years from now, they will cheerfully fire you at that time...this has happened too, more than once. Unless your background is a very well-kept secret, it could be hanging over your head forever.

Youthful indiscretions are common amongst pilots, most employers will be understanding of a one or two minor incidents, especially if they occurred a long time ago.

Ultimately, the individual has to decide for himself.

This is the bottom line. Do your research and decide for yourself what is best.

Coop77, in your particular situation I would consider what N5139 had to say about FAA records and request a copy for yourself. Then you will know what they have.

If there is something outside the scope of FAA record-keeping which you feel is a disqualifying event, avoid disclosing it. I wouldn't let the fear of a future exwife stop you from protecting your reasonable right to privacy. In fact, I wouldn't harbor any feeling of a marriage gone bad because that mindset only sets you up for failure. But thats a different discussion.

So if you manage to get hired, then fired 5 years down the road.. so what? That's five years of good salary, valuable flight time, probably a type-rating and incredible experience. So go for it. I'd far rather be fired down the road than have never taken the chance. But again, its a personal opinion.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread has run its course. All the best to you Coop. Hope it works out.

That definitely helps, thank you. My issue is that unfortunately I have failures that "count" in the FAA's eyes; my first attempt at my first type, and an LOE bust. I do believe there was an MV several years back that required extra training to get through as well. It's very clear that I've dug myself a bit of a hole, and I'm basically just concerned how, and if, I should answer a few of the app questions. Obviously I need to disclose the Type failure and the LOE. Hopefully my refs will get a call and help me through that. I keep hearing differing views though on whether to disclose "training events". While the prospective employer does ask about failed training, I would hope it would be something you could talk your way through if they indeed found the info. In your opinion, do you think disclosing ONLY the LOE and Type failures is a safe enough thing to do? I do have 3 internal recs, so I'm just prayin' that disclosing these things won't kill my chances at an interview. It always seems to me that getting the interview is half the battle.


Be up front and honest, you should be okay. I busted the checkrides for my commercial and instrument ratings almost 30 years ago. I reported it to the regional and major airlines I applied for and still got the jobs. I was told they only cared about busting 135 or 121 checkrides. The moral of the story is be truthful and let them decide. Good luck.