Airline Pilot Forums

So... what was your original loan amount like? I'm starting to wonder why I got into this career at all. Been knicking away at mine for years and just barely making a dent.

most of the people on here have been paying it back for several years now. So is your question how much did you start out with, or how much do you have now?

most of the people on here have been paying it back for several years now. So is your question how much did you start out with, or how much do you have now?

Yeah, I thought about that after i hit submit. How about the original loan amount.

Graduated from Purdue in Dec 2005 with about $65k in principal & compounded interest. Out of state tuition sucks...

Today my debt is down to about $18k in principal and should be down to around $9k before the end of the year and paid off by the end of 2011 (plans, mice, men, etc).

Graduated from Purdue in Dec 2005 with about $65k in principal & compounded interest. Out of state tuition sucks...

Today my debt is down to about $18k in principal and should be down to around $9k before the end of the year and paid off by the end of 2011 (plans, mice, men, etc).

check pm..................

I saw a little girl last month with the same Sallie Mae. It took all my strength not to grab her and yell.

I saw a little girl last month with the same Sallie Mae. It took all my strength not to grab her and yell.

God forbid I ever meet anyone named Key Bank.

Only $10,000 in Government Loans (subsidized so I didnt build interest in school).

Went to community college for 2 years and worked part time. Got Private and Instrument part 61. Went to State school and paid in state tuition (Illinois) to get rest of certs and ratings. Some help from parents, some from working.

Was making a few payments on loan but deferred it due to making a CFI wage. Fortunately since it is subsidized, I will not have interest building while it is differed. Interest capitalizing would suck during the deferment.

I graduated from the Colorado School of Mines in 2001 with about $40k in student loans. About 1/4 of that was unsubsidized, which I've since paid off. I still owe approximately $20,000 in subsidized loans, with a 3% interest rate. My monthly payment is $169, and I'm not in a big hurry to pay more than that each month.

When I graduated, the big problem was the amount of credit card debt I had. At the peak, I think I owed about $10,000 on the cards. I also purchased a new sportbike for myself as a graduation present, which added another $9,000 of debt to the pile. A few months later, I leased a new car (which I eventually bought). More debt! So stupid...

I spent six years getting out from all the debt I had, while simultaneously paying for my flight training out of pocket. It was very tough, but so worth it. Now I'm super paranoid about incurring any debt, and pay off my credit card religiously every month. I hardly ever by anything for myself anymore either, unless I can really justify its purpose.

It will take a few more years before my $20,000 of student loan debt is eliminated, but at $169/mo, I hardly notice it. With the low 3% interest, I'm not really screwing myself too bad either by taking so long to pay it off.

Man if I could do it all over again! After my enlistment in the Navy was over I went to Embry-Riddle for the B.S. graduating in 1995. I ended up borrowing about 50K and didn't make any payments until 2000 (I know, I know)... With penalties and fees it skyrocketed up to 120K. They deducted 15% from my paycheck since 2000. I'm down to owing about 55K and it sucks!

If I could do it all over again, I would have gone to a community college and done all the flying at a local FBO. I might have been able to owe only 20K or so... I don't think my career would have been any different. I've been at the same Regional airline for the last 13 years. Not bad but not where I thought I would be at this stage of my life. My plan was to get to the majors and pay it off aggressively in a year, but that never happened and I was always scraping by for money.

For anyone thinking about getting into the airline industry now as a pilot, It's even worse. It's not anything like the 80s. If you do, do it cause you love to fly and don't think you're going to make any money. Cause you're NOT.

I pay $110 per month at 1.9%. It wouldn't benefit me to try and pay it off all at once. It took a lot of calling around but eventually I was able to secure about $14k of loans at this rate. Had jobs all through college though.

Original amount was $75,000, but after 8 years of paying it down, overpaying, etc, I owe...$73,950.

Original amount was $75,000, but after 8 years of paying it down, overpaying, etc, I owe...$73,950.

:D good job! You should do motivational speeches at aviation school new-student orientations.

Only $10,000 in Government Loans (subsidized so I didnt build interest in school).


Was making a few payments on loan but deferred it due to making a CFI wage. Fortunately since it is subsidized, I will not have interest building while it is differed. Interest capitalizing would suck during the deferment.

I still owe approximately $20,000 in subsidized loans, with a 3% interest rate. My monthly payment is $169, and I'm not in a big hurry to pay more than that each month.


It will take a few more years before my $20,000 of student loan debt is eliminated, but at $169/mo, I hardly notice it. With the low 3% interest, I'm not really screwing myself too bad either by taking so long to pay it off.

I pay $110 per month at 1.9%. It wouldn't benefit me to try and pay it off all at once.

From all of us taxpayers subsidizing your loans, feel free to take as long as you want to pay them back. We LOVE paying your interest.:mad:


Only loans were from my family and they were only a couple thousand at a time. All were paid off within few months. Lived with the folks, state school, lots of jobs, and the GI Bill.

From all of us taxpayers subsidizing your loans, feel free to take as long as you want to pay them back. We LOVE paying your interest.:mad:


Only loans were from my family and they were only a couple thousand at a time. All were paid off within few months. Lived with the folks, state school, lots of jobs, and the GI Bill.

And we are not tax payers too? Are we not paying your GI bill too? I am not discounting the service to country you performed, I am just saying I am a tax payer also who paid for your education as well. I am also paying for several hundred other government programs from the taxes I pay.

I was offered subsidized loans and took that and do not have to pay interest because I make less than a certain figure. I would be foolish to not take it.

From all of us taxpayers subsidizing your loans, feel free to take as long as you want to pay them back. We LOVE paying your interest.:mad:


Oh get off it there's interest on student loans for a reason. Don't give someone crap because they found a means to get a better education and make a better future. Student loans aren't free and money is made from them.

Graduated Aug 2004... aprox 37k in debt. 25 from citibank, and 12 from federal.

Paid off Citibank in Dec 2009.

Not paying off the federal early as it is at 2% and only 107 a month.

Also borrowed 5k from Keybank to build multi time. Paid that off a year after I got it. (jsut needed the time for a job)

From all of us taxpayers subsidizing your loans, feel free to take as long as you want to pay them back. We LOVE paying your interest.:mad:


We are paying taxes just the same as you...so quit whining

From all of us taxpayers subsidizing your loans, feel free to take as long as you want to pay them back. We LOVE paying your interest.:mad:

Get over it. Out of all the things the government wastes money on I do not think flight school interest is anything to worry about. If is funny you have an issue with subsidized loans but not with the EAS routes Colgan has. How many millions of tax dollars is wasted on that?


Only loans were from my family and they were only a couple thousand at a time. All were paid off within few months. Lived with the folks, state school, lots of jobs, and the GI Bill.

Ok, so the GI Bill is ok because you took advantage of it. Subsidized loan is bad because you did not take advanage of it and lived with the folks instead....ok, thanks.

Get over it. Out of all the things the government wastes money on I do not think flight school interest is anything to worry about. If is funny you have an issue with subsidized loans but not with the EAS routes Colgan has. How many millions of tax dollars is wasted on that?



Ok, so the GI Bill is ok because you took advantage of it. Subsidized loan is bad because you did not take advanage of it and lived with the folks instead....ok, thanks.
It's really sad when there's a set of round trips and the heavy load is 7 people.... If there's one thing that the government is good at it's wasting money.

It's really sad when there's a set of round trips and the heavy load is 7 people.... If there's one thing that the government is good at it's wasting money.

Thats what civics is all about. Using the collective wealth to take on projects/tasks that otherwise would not get done.

Senate and House Bills are currently on the table to reverse the banking industry's heavily-lobbied Bankruptcy law change of 2005...the one that made private student loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy:

Project on Student Debt: Letters/Petitions (http://projectonstudentdebt.org/letter_view.php?idx=21)

If these bills pass, all Sallie Mae, Key Bank, Citi, etc. non-Federal student loans will once again become dischargeable in bankruptcy (which they were since the beginning of time until 2005).

I'm sure lots of you will go off on a tangent about personal responsibility--and I'm all for personal responsibility...

I'll say this pre-emptively--if anyone on here wants to go on a rant about how an individual citizen shouldn't be able to discharge debts they cannot afford, then I want an explanation of why a corporate entity blessed with the rights of an individual is able to do the same exact thing even more easily...

Additionally, if you think bankruptcy is simply a handout--think again--bankruptcy acts as a strong disincentive to businesses to make loans to people who can't afford them...looking back on the financial crisis and worst recession we've had in our lifetimes, it is very hard to argue for wildly unregulated capitalism...controls such as bankruptcy laws might be "socialist" to the naysayers, but rational incentives and disincentives are necessary for the functioning of a free market system...

If you don't want individual bankruptcy as a possibility for irresponsible borrowers, then you should push for stricter limitations on corporate bankruptcy...if I can't declare bankruptcy, Key Bank can't either...enough said...

Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans (sorry for the run-on sentence). They are preaching about responsibility to people who have done the EXACT same thing as them, but at a different time, and are now reserve / furloughed FO's who now owe way more in interest because of a lack of upgrading and ability to pay off their loan. I seriously doubt anybody took out a loan thinking "I will only make $20K/year, but thats okay, I'll make it work". It was probably more like "Damn, $60K loan is a lot, but I'll be a captain within 2 years making $60K+/year, so I'll be able to pay that off without a problem."

Food for thought:
When I was hired, they told my class that we would probably be back in the school house in 8-10 months for upgrade. By the time I started IOE, hiring had completely stopped. 3 years later, I'm a reserve F/O with no line in sight, and no upgrade anywhere near the horizon. This stuff happens. Luckily for me, I've been able to pay loan payments.

I am fortunate that I got a job that pays me better than if I had stayed at AWAC and upgraded at my longevity, and that my wife also has a good job.

That said, even as a probationary FO making $25k and with my wife in a dead-end, entry-level job making less than that we were still able to pay extra every month on our student loans...while putting 10% into my 401k and bolstering our savings. The key to doing this is budgeting for no more than basic monthly guarantee, living well below your means, and NOT HAVING ANY ADDITIONAL DEBT!

While it is VERY true that luck and timing plays a big role in financial security...but even those with meager incomes can pay down debt & create wealth with strict financial discipline.

After all, how many "broke regional FOs" do you folks know that have iPhones?

Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans (sorry for the run-on sentence). They are preaching about responsibility to people who have done the EXACT same thing as them, but at a different time, and are now reserve / furloughed FO's who now owe way more in interest because of a lack of upgrading and ability to pay off their loan. I seriously doubt anybody took out a loan thinking "I will only make $20K/year, but thats okay, I'll make it work". It was probably more like "Damn, $60K loan is a lot, but I'll be a captain within 2 years making $60K+/year, so I'll be able to pay that off without a problem."

Food for thought:
When I was hired, they told my class that we would probably be back in the school house in 8-10 months for upgrade. By the time I started IOE, hiring had completely stopped. 3 years later, I'm a reserve F/O with no line in sight, and no upgrade anywhere near the horizon. This stuff happens. Luckily for me, I've been able to pay loan payments.

One of the best posts I've read in a long time. Thanks for the perspective.

Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans
No...sometimes they are from people that were taught that you don't live the American dream on credit - and this includes buying a car, a house, an RV, or any other *guy toys* especially that are above your pay scale. I don't care if you borrow it - matter of fact - *educational debt and real estate debt* used to be looked on as the only good types of **good** debt (if there is such a thing)
I think PEOPLE, and like the other poster mentioned too, CORPORATIONS ought to be held responsible for their debts. If declaring bankruptcy and then paying the price is the system set then so be it.

Are you really saying that people should not be responsible for their debts?

USMCFLYR

$0. Went to the University of Texas. I always had a full time job in college (first on the ramp for a commuter airline then as a flight attendant for a certain Dallas based airline). I got two Pell Grants that covered a couple of semester's worth of tuition.

I only got a certificate or rating when I could afford it. I would save up the money and then go the the local Mom and Pop Part 61 school and pay cash for the training. Of course you could rent a Cessna 150 for about $28 an hour back then so flying was pretty cheap.

$0. Went to the University of Texas. I always had a full time job in college (first on the ramp for a commuter airline then as a flight attendant for a certain Dallas based airline). I got two Pell Grants that covered a couple of semester's worth of tuition.

I only got a certificate or rating when I could afford it. I would save up the money and then go the the local Mom and Pop Part 61 school and pay cash for the training. Of course you could rent a Cessna 150 for about $28 an hour back then so flying was pretty cheap.
So true....but then again minimum wage was $3.50/hr too! :eek:
I'm sure it is still more expensive today though.

USMCFLYR

No student loan debt. Took ten years to go through state school and paid as I went. Engineering degree. Took 4 years to go from Private to CFI-I and paid for it as I went after college.

So true....but then again minimum wage was $3.50/hr too! :eek:
I'm sure it is still more expensive today though.

USMCFLYR

For sure. I don't see how anyone can afford to learn how to fly these days.

Funny thing about it is the people who go off on tangents about personal responsibility are the ones who were hired at just the right time, upgraded in 10 months, and are now making 6+ year captain pay and have paid off their loans (sorry for the run-on sentence). They are preaching about responsibility to people who have done the EXACT same thing as them, but at a different time, and are now reserve / furloughed FO's who now owe way more in interest because of a lack of upgrading and ability to pay off their loan. I seriously doubt anybody took out a loan thinking "I will only make $20K/year, but thats okay, I'll make it work". It was probably more like "Damn, $60K loan is a lot, but I'll be a captain within 2 years making $60K+/year, so I'll be able to pay that off without a problem."

Food for thought:
When I was hired, they told my class that we would probably be back in the school house in 8-10 months for upgrade. By the time I started IOE, hiring had completely stopped. 3 years later, I'm a reserve F/O with no line in sight, and no upgrade anywhere near the horizon. This stuff happens. Luckily for me, I've been able to pay loan payments.

Are you really saying that if life (your upgrade) doesn't happen the way you think that you can forget about personal responsibility?

No...sometimes they are from people that were taught that you don't live the American dream on credit - and this includes buying a car, a house, an RV, or any other *guy toys* especially that are above your pay scale. I don't care if you borrow it - matter of fact - *educational debt and real estate debt* used to be looked on as the only good types of **good** debt (if there is such a thing)
I think PEOPLE, and like the other poster mentioned too, CORPORATIONS ought to be held responsible for their debts. If declaring bankruptcy and then paying the price is the system set then so be it.

Are you really saying that people should not be responsible for their debts?

USMCFLYR


+1, well said!
The best way to not get into debt is save your money and pay cash for everything. I do not own a single credit card, the cars are paid in full and I don't owe a cent to anyone. When you aren't making payements for all of your debts you would be surprised how much money you can save. It is even possible to pay cash for a house after years of saving, but everyone these days wants a new car, a new house, and the new coolest gadgets. Just live well under your means for a while and then when you get older and have a lot of money in the bank, then you can treat yourself to somethng new, and pay cash for it!

Well, guess I should have read it question carefull as well. I thought it asked how much I borrowed. I paid off all my student loans within 4 years of graduating college.

And we are not tax payers too? Are we not paying your GI bill too? I am not discounting the service to country you performed, I am just saying I am a tax payer also who paid for your education as well. I am also paying for several hundred other government programs from the taxes I pay.

I was offered subsidized loans and took that and do not have to pay interest because I make less than a certain figure. I would be foolish to not take it.



Okay..... let's forget about the slightly hazardous work environment....

My GI bill worked like this: six year enlistment, I paid in $1200 and got just over $11,000. Cost to the taxpayer $10,000.

Let's assume a $50,000 loan at 2%. Current mortgage rates are about 5%. Assuming a 30 year loan, that 3% discount costs the taxpayer about $37,000. For a $100,000 loan the cost goes to $65,000 or about 3 years pay for an enlistedman on his first tour.

ERAU, need I say more... :(

Here is a good start on the student loan kick.... I read the book and it talks mainly on how corrupt the system is... doesn't really help you on how to get rid of your loan.
StudentLoanJustice.Org (http://studentloanjustice.org/)

And we are not tax payers too? Are we not paying your GI bill too? I am not discounting the service to country you performed, I am just saying I am a tax payer also who paid for your education as well. I am also paying for several hundred other government programs from the taxes I pay.

I was offered subsidized loans and took that and do not have to pay interest because I make less than a certain figure. I would be foolish to not take it.
If you are paying off loans in accordance with the programs established then I have no problem with that. If people don't like it then they need to vote in lawmakers who will change the system.

Likewise - you paid for my education and my GI Bill. I performed a service for those benefits. I owed the country something and in return I got certain benefits. I upheld my part of the bargin which I signed up for.

I feel about those who pile on the loans and then don't pay them back the same way that you should feel about someone who enlisted in the military and then got out right away with a dishonorable discharge and are still entitled to those same benefits that you paid for - - cheated.
(Btw - someone in that situation would not be entitled to those benefits)

When others do it on a grander and grander scale then you end up in the type of situation that you currently see around the world in my opinion; isn't it one of the often asked questions? How do corporations and governments operate in a way that individuals are not allowed too? :(

USMCFLYR

Well I think mine are about 80K but not sure. been slowly chipping away after 2 degrees, 7 years of college and flight school I think it was over 100K when i started. I just send the money and dont really worry about it too much because it isn't going anywhere fast. In the end i'll make more money than some but there are alot without degrees that will make the same or more so to each his own.

I really doubt most people have significant subsidized student loan debt. That's why private (unsubsidized) lenders exsist and handed out money like it was candy. The fed is more restrictive.

In any event, if you're in a lot of debt the damage is done. All you can do is budget and move forward. Now... anyone got those winning powerball numbers?

I feel about those who pile on the loans and then don't pay them back the same way that you should feel about someone who enlisted in the military and then got out right away with a dishonorable discharge and are still entitled to those same benefits that you paid for - - cheated.
(Btw - someone in that situation would not be entitled to those benefits)


USMCFLYR

Just to clarify.....

Only those receiving an "Honorable" discharge are eligible for the GI Bill.

While someone who receives a "General" discharge is eligible for some veteran's benefits, those who get an "Other Than Honorable", "Bad Conduct Discharge", or "Dishonorable Discharge" are not. As well, those who get and "Enlisted Level Separation" are not eligible for GI benefits though it does not carry the same stigma of an OTH, DD, or Big Chicken Dinner.

I went to UND which says enough. Parents didn't pay a dime and i worked the whole way through college. Ended up with over $125,000 because of out of state tuition the first year and i DID MY MEI also. I finished school in 3.5 years which helped save some money. I would not go there again because of the debt i built from this. But i didnt know better when i cam from high school. Now i am a regional on 3rd year pay and if it wouldn't be for my wife i wouldn't make my bills. I am living with the in laws trying to pay off debt as fast as possible. So i think i made mistakes in the past by getting this debt but i think i am taking responsibility by living with the in laws which is no fun. Of course this might not matter because i might get furlough next year after all the sabbs go away.

Original amount $106,000.

Are you really saying that if life (your upgrade) doesn't happen the way you think that you can forget about personal responsibility?

Absolutely not. I'm pointing out the irony that the people that got lucky with timing are the ones preaching about responsibility. Taking out $60K in loans was 100% fine when they did it, but 5 years later when someone else takes out $60K, gets furloughed a year after being hired, and struggles to make their payments, suddenly its irresponsible. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I went to UND which says enough. Parents didn't pay a dime and i worked the whole way through college. Ended up with over $125,000 because of out of state tuition the first year and i DID MY MEI also. I finished school in 3.5 years which helped save some money. I would not go there again because of the debt i built from this. But i didnt know better when i cam from high school. Now i am a regional on 3rd year pay and if it wouldn't be for my wife i wouldn't make my bills. I am living with the in laws trying to pay off debt as fast as possible. So i think i made mistakes in the past by getting this debt but i think i am taking responsibility by living with the in laws which is no fun. Of course this might not matter because i might get furlough next year after all the sabbs go away.

Nice. Nothing like putting your debt responsibility on your wife.

Isn't part of being married sharing in financial benefits AND debts?

Nice. Nothing like putting your debt responsibility on your wife.

She knew it coming in. I paid her bills when she was a student. She also knows that i have the potential to make descent money in the future.

She knew it coming in. I paid her bills when she was a student. She also knows that i have the potential to make descent money in the future.

exactly.. it would be different if someone were to hide/deceive their partners about their debt but that is not the case. I've always been forthcoming to my significant other about my student loans (his parents paid 100% for his college, mine paid zero.) It's my one baggage that I bring to the relationship and I truly do feel bad that I can't contribute to household expenses as much as he, but as long as he is fine with it (for which I am very lucky), it isn't anyone else's concern. He's told me if getting student loans is the worst of my past it's not like I was a criminal or beat people up or something. At the very least, it's comforting to know if I die or get divorced he won't be responsible for a single penny of it. (which is different for credit card debt in many states, even for CC debt you accrued BEFORE you got married.)

She knew it coming in. I paid her bills when she was a student. She also knows that i have the potential to make descent money in the future.

You do? What does a first officer at Mesaba max out at?

You are right i will top out in the mid to upper 30's if i am an FO for the next 41 years. I imagine that in at least to to 30 years from now i might make captain so i will still have 10 years of earning descent money(pays the bills) and with 31 years seniority when i finally upgrade i might make over 90k on the 900 for the last 11 years of my career.

Are you really just trying to **** me off? If my wife chooses to pay my loans that is her choice and i am not forcing her to so i am not dumping my responsibility on her. I am living with her parents to help get through this and not put all the financial stress on her. So please do not make me sound like such a bad guy because my wife is paying my bills.

my wife is paying my bills.

Where did you find her and are there any left?!?! Will travel! :D;)

She knew it coming in. I paid her bills when she was a student. She also knows that i have the potential to make descent money in the future.

I'm making descent money now; it keeps going down.

The key to doing this is budgeting for no more than basic monthly guarantee, living well below your means, and NOT HAVING ANY ADDITIONAL DEBT!

While it is VERY true that luck and timing plays a big role in financial security...but even those with meager incomes can pay down debt & create wealth with strict financial discipline.

Dude, now you're just talking crazy! Financial discipline? Budgeting? Living below your means? Are you nuts....that's not what our generation is all about! Why work hard, save money and pay in cash, when you can put it on credit and have it NOW! Nevermind that you will end up paying 20% more in interest. Why only take out 150k mortgage on a 150k house when I can get approved for 225k. So when the economy tanks I can cry wolf, proclaim I can't afford my mortgage anymore, and promptly walk away from my financial responsibility.


After all, how many "broke regional FOs" do you folks know that have iPhones?

Haha, so true!

After all, how many "broke regional FOs" do you folks know that have iPhones?

On Friday I was talking with the head line guy at a small airport in southern Cali. We were trying to figure out where my hotel was and it had been a while since I have seen him. When we were catching up he was telling me about the recent financial hardship, hours being cut etc.

Then he busts out the iPhone and uses his map application to find my hotel. Work pays for my phone and I got the "free" phone for about 15 bucks taxes fees etc.

There is no way I could afford an iPhone. I guess this guy is sacrificing it all to have an iPhone?

I bought my time as I went. Save up $300 fly for 5 to 8 hours.

Skyhigh

Then he busts out the iPhone and uses his map application to find my hotel. Work pays for my phone and I got the "free" phone for about 15 bucks taxes fees etc.

There is no way I could afford an iPhone. I guess this guy is sacrificing it all to have an iPhone?

Work pays for my phone too and I got the free phone, a blackberry storm (close to an iphone). You should shop better.