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View Full Version : Loss of License cover etc....


Smash312
12-04-2010, 03:12 AM
Not sure if this belongs here, but figured that folks in this forum may have made provisions for this type of thing.

I've recently moved away from the US regional system to a gig in the Middle East. With an increase in income and increasing family size, I really need to look at loss of license provisions and/or other provisions such as disability/death etc. I know it's a boring subject, but just want to make sure should something happen tomorrow, my family would be protected. Can someone please point me in the right direction. I know ALPA have a scheme (I'm no longer an ALPA member) but am sure there are other providers out there that may have comparable products at more competitive rates. 32, Male, Non-Smoker, Good Health history.


Howgozit
12-04-2010, 06:20 AM
Take a look at Harvey. Watt and co. They have specific loss of license coverage.

30west
12-04-2010, 07:21 AM
Take a look at Harvey. Watt and co. They have specific loss of license coverage.


I would recommend them also( I have a small amount with them and ALPA). They have retired FAA docs and people that worked at oak city in FAA HQ so they know the system and people. They have the reputation of not wanting to pay out, so they really fight the FAA tooth and nail to get your medical back to you ASAP so they can quit paying you. If that's what you want , if your looking for a bunch of cash for sitting around go somewhere else.

30west


GW258
12-04-2010, 07:43 AM
Harvey Watt. Go max + extended. This is MEL for every pilot. No other way to protect your family/self.

Smash312
12-04-2010, 10:48 AM
Will drop them a line as soon as Monday rolls around. Y'just never know.

jtf560
12-04-2010, 02:02 PM
Pay close attention to the terms of the policy- especially the Harvey Watt offerings. If you are looking for true loss of license, pay attention because many of the policies don't really cover for loss of license unless you are so messed up that you meet the Social Security definition of disabled. Many of the plans out there use the SS definition which only covers you if you can't physically do any sort of work- not just something smaller that leaves you unable to hold an FAA medical but able to do other stuff. Also watch out for language in the terms that takes away the money they are supposed to pay you if you are doing some other form of work. It will be hard to find something that won't reduce the money they are paying out if you are doing other work. I guess what I am trying to say here is to look at all the fine details and how they will affect you in case you try to collect. Good luck.

Jetjok
12-04-2010, 04:11 PM
Pay close attention to the terms of the policy- especially the Harvey Watt offerings. If you are looking for true loss of license, pay attention because many of the policies don't really cover for loss of license unless you are so messed up that you meet the Social Security definition of disabled. Many of the plans out there use the SS definition which only covers you if you can't physically do any sort of work- not just something smaller that leaves you unable to hold an FAA medical but able to do other stuff. Also watch out for language in the terms that takes away the money they are supposed to pay you if you are doing some other form of work. It will be hard to find something that won't reduce the money they are paying out if you are doing other work. I guess what I am trying to say here is to look at all the fine details and how they will affect you in case you try to collect. Good luck.

Loss of license insurance is usually a short term, stop gap measure, designed to compensate you the difference between what your company will be paying you, usually on short term disability, and what you would normally be making, if you were still flying for your company. I'm thinking that loss of license ins. pays out for perhaps up to two years, and it can be bought in blocks, to bring your "monthly pay" up to 100% of your "before disability" pay check.

Disability Insurance on the other hand, will pay you for however long your policy states, usually starting after some short period of time, like 30 or 60 days, and going until you either go back to work, in the profession/job that you had, or you turn a certain age, like 60 or 65, again, depending on your policy. If you buy an individual DI policy and pay the premiums, anything that your policy pays you is tax-free. If your company supplies a DI policy and pays either the whole premium, or partially, with you paying some, than the money you receive is taxable.

Remember that insurance companies would prefer not to pay out, so if you've bought a DI policy and go out on disability, expect them to be looking over your shoulder, to make sure that you're not scamming their system. I don't believe that a personal DI policy, will look at you the same way that social security looks at folks who apply for social security disability. Usually, an individual policy will state that it will pay if you can't perform the job that you listed as your primary job when you signed up for the policy. Individual DI policies usually allow one to "work" to a small degree, in another field, without expecting reimbursement. However, if you earn over their threshold, they will want you to repay that amount.

In conclusion, lol insurance is short term while a private DI policy is more a long-term guarantee of money coming in.

JJ

jtf560
12-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Loss of license can be whatever the policy says it is. Disability is whatever the individual policy says it is. I currently have short term disability for 6 months at 60 percent salary, long term disability for 6 months to age 65 at 60 percent, and loss of license for 3 years at 60 percent if I just lose my license and can do other work. I am about to get loss of license that goes to 65 percent from the end of the current plan I have at 3 years that lasts until age 65. I actually never heard of loss of license defined as you have it, but I have heard of that sort of insurance and all the ads for it feature a talking duck. I believe it is just called supplemental insurance and is offered by Afflac and probably other insurance companies also.

rogerwilcoout
12-07-2010, 04:07 PM
jtf,

Who do you have LOL insurance through?

jtf560
12-07-2010, 05:48 PM
My current LOL is supplied by NetJets and I believe it is self administered and funded by NetJets also. They also supply and administer the Long and Short Term Disability. I went through the available documents and couldn't find any mention of anything other than NetJets as the plan administrator. The LOL I will be adding soon is getting finalized by the union at NetJets- NJASAP and should be available in February. They haven't announced all the details and I'm not sure what insurer they found for the new plan. I don't believe it will be available to anyone outside of the union, but I guess it is possible the company that offers it may offer a similar plan to other pilots once it is finalized.

jthav8r
12-08-2010, 07:36 AM
My agency recently began marketing an LOL product specifically designed for pro pilots with benefits to be triggered by the loss of FAA medical.

What you would want to look for in a disability product is that it includes "own" or "specified" occupation language with "pilot" listed as your occupation. If your policy shows "any" occupation language, then it's not what you are likely looking for.

John "JT" Helms
Eastern Aviation Insurance Service, LLC

FIIGMO
12-08-2010, 08:09 AM
My agency recently began marketing an LOL product specifically designed for pro pilots with benefits to be triggered by the loss of FAA medical.

What you would want to look for in a disability product is that it includes "own" or "specified" occupation language with "pilot" listed as your occupation. If your policy shows "any" occupation language, then it's not what you are likely looking for.

John "JT" Helms
Eastern Aviation Insurance Service, LLC
JT could you send me a PM I would like to hear more about your products.

Thank You

jthav8r
12-08-2010, 08:18 AM
Actually I can't as I'm a brand new user.

You can email me at jthelms@eaisllc.com and I can forward you more info.

Ralston
12-09-2010, 01:38 PM
Pilot disability loss of medical license insurance is a very specific insurance with the most liberal of all definitions of disability. In a nutshell it pays based on your inability to hold a medical certificate. On an individual and small group basis, to my knowledge, only Harvey Watt & Co. and ALPA provide actual disability insurance that pays on a medical license definition. There is a Lloyds of London product marketed in the US as a Loss of Medical License product however once you see the actual certificate of coverage, (ie the fine print as an earlier poster said) it is actually an "own occupation plan". What this means is that it will pay if the insurance companies doctor's think you can maintain your medical certificate, NOT the FAA.

For example, if you were to slip, hit your head, and lose consciousness, the FAA will ground you for 2 years before they would even accept your medical documentation. It can take upto another 6 months before they will sign off on you. A Harvey Watt Loss of License plan would pay you until you were able to go back to work. Other plans would not pay a dime on that claim because their doctors would say that you are fine to go back and sit in a cockpit 1-2 weeks or less after the accident.

Harvey Watt policies are portable, do not reduce the amount they pay if you are getting other disability payments elsewhere unless its more than 100% of salary, and are tax free. Products can be designed for specific companies, unions and are offered as a monthly payment or lumpsum benefit.

Harvey Watt doctors are led by the former director of the certification division of the FAA and are available to help policyholders re-certified if they ask for help but are not required to take it.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have either in this thread or directly. ralston@harveywatt.com or 800-241-6103 ext 235 HarveyWatt.com and choose your airline, union, or all pilots tab at the bottom for exclusive products and services

Ralston
12-09-2010, 02:12 PM
One other point that you need to be aware of when buying any insurance is the renewal periods. A unique feature of the Harvey Watt Loss of License insurance is the fact that it is guaranteed renewable. What that means is the policy will automatically renew every year without proof of insurability. In other words, once you buy the plan, you never have to show proof of good health and have a insurance physical until you reach the plans maximum age. Other policies will renew and may require you to show evidence of good health at which time continuation of coverage can be canceled if a new condition arises.

1 in 20 pilots is receiving disability benefits EVERY year!

1 in 5 will be disabled more than a year before 65.

jthav8r
12-10-2010, 07:16 AM
Ralston, I am marketing the Lloyd's of London coverage and there is no issue with renewability (i.e. prooving insurability). The only requirement is that the pilot maintain an FAA medical which they're doing anyway.

And, if you lose your medical, and thus your ability to do your specified job (in this case "pilot"), then the benefits are triggered. The company might try to help you regain your medical certification, but that is true of any disability insurance. The company and the insured both should want the disability payments to end by having the insured regain his ability to work, and in this case work in his/her chosen profession of professional pilot.

The coverage we offer is portable as well (whether purchased by the individual, or as part of a flight department).

John "JT" Helms (888 678 4880 or jthelms@eaisllc.com)

Ralston
12-10-2010, 07:38 AM
Harvey Watt, a former airline pilot himself, invented Loss of License insurance and no one has helped more pilots in 60 years. I suggest that you closely review the options. On a Lloyds group product the best that they can offer is a 3 year policy period which means it is underwritten every 3 years, however on individual policies it is underwritten every year. Some Lloyds contingencies will not actually require the health info for underwriting until the time of claim and then do the look back to see if the disabling condition or treatment for it began prior to the new policy period to determine eligibility. Harvey Watt Loss of Medical products have none of these policy periods post plan inception and can be carried once enrolled until maximum plan age or you stop paying for coverage. Check the HW policies for straight forward explanation of coverages.

Through airlines, unions, Lloyds and numerous other insurance companies, Harvey Watt manages and Develops disability programs for over 40,000 professional pilots.

Compare your options carefully and make sure that you speak with someone who understands pilots, their medical requirements, and the insurances you have through your company and how what they offer will work together. We want you to have a product that will pay when you need it, give you confidence, and let you keep it until retirement.
Harvey Watt has designed numerous policies for companies and unions large and small. harveywatt.com ralston@harveywatt.com

LocalProPilots
12-10-2010, 07:44 AM
WARNING.....
All insurance companies Hold out a service...but then make their profit by NOT delivering the product.....

Before ANY money is paid
1) Search satisfaction rates for those who have needed/requested the benefit.
2) Ask MANY question like..... "if xxx happens, than what is the process...?"

there are other place to put your money which YOU control...remains WITH you...and still provide long term income benefit.

Sorry but again.... a company that makes it's profit by NOT providing the service it sells....

jthav8r
12-10-2010, 10:46 AM
Our individual policies are available in three year periods as well, and again, as long as they're still getting their FAA medical, there is no other requirement for insurability.

Anyone claiming that a disability product does not exclude pre-existing conditions is misleading people.

Feel free to price it out and compare the products. jthelms@eaisllc.com 888 678 4880

jthav8r
12-10-2010, 01:19 PM
First of all, renewal of a disability plan (with no lapse in coverage) doesn't incur a new pre-existing condition period. A pilot in that situation would have continuous coverage and if they had a condition causing them to lose their medical, their benefits would kick in... (the pre-existing conditions are all one's which would cause one to lose their medical anyway). Once the benefits start, there wouldn't be a reason to continue coverage until such time as the condition were rectified, and the medical re-instated. Once the condition is gone, then there is nothing to worry about from an underwriting stand point.

Second, you implied in an earlier post that your plan "carries you to retirement age" and ours wouldn't... and that the 3 year policy term option we have is bad... hmmm... check this out http://www.harveywatt.com/Assets/PDFs/2.1%20HWW%20LOL%20Complete%20Pkg%2006-2009.pdf

Your available benefit period drops off more dramatically than our plan as pilots can get up to a 2 year benefit at age 64 through us, and only 1 year through you. Also, you're premiums go up EVERY YEAR, whereas if they purchase a 3 year policy period from us, they only change every 3 years...plus individuals get a 10% discount for purchasing in 3 year periods...

I'm beginning to see why you're posts and your website are so wordy... I think you're hoping folks won't be able to wade through it all.