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View Full Version : Any 900EX EASy drivers out there?


cobber
12-07-2010, 12:53 PM
We have an older 604 and are looking to get either a 605 or a Falcon. Just like to hear some opinions on this model of Falcon.


NowCorporate
12-07-2010, 01:05 PM
We have an older 604 and are looking to get either a 605 or a Falcon. Just like to hear some opinions on this model of Falcon.

I have a few years flying a 900EX and currently fly another EASy and you will very much like the EASy platform. Its very simple to operate and displays a lot of information in a very clean way.

The 900EX is a extremely reliable and a very easy airplane to fly. It is, however, rather underpowered, especially in icing conditions (IMO) Its a great domestic airplane with the ocasional Europe trip - but its not a world traveler. Its just a bit small and long range puts you at some ridiculous speeds (like.72-.73) The idea of 9+ hrs in a 900 is painful. The galley is small, some only have 1 lav, and theres no rest area.

Will you operate in/out of very short strips? The Falcon produces good numbers but I would hesitate to choose a 900EX in that case. I dislike that it has no real TRs (the noisemaker does not count) We would routinely use a Global or a DA2000 when operating into shorter/contaminated strips. I know the whole drill about TRs not counting for #s etc, but I can tell you which one I felt better in when landing on a slick runway in the winter...

All in all a real solid airplane - just some considerations IMO.

I have no 604/605 experience to relate it to.

Good Luck.

cobber
12-07-2010, 01:26 PM
I have a few years flying a 900EX and currently fly another EASy and you will very much like the EASy platform - its very simple to operate and displays a lot of information in a very clean way.

The 900EX is a extremely reliable and a very easy airplane to fly. IMO it is, however, rather underpowered, especially in icing conditions. Its a great domestic airplane with the ocasional Europe trip - but its not a world traveler.

Will you operate in/out of very short strips? The Falcon produces good numbers but I would hesitate to choose a 900EX in that case. I dislike that it has no real TRs (the noisemaker does not count) We would routinely use a Global or a DA2000 when operating into shorter/contaminated strips. I know the whole drill about TRs not counting for #s etc but I can tell you which one I felt better in...

All in all a real solid airplane - just some considerations IMO.

Good Luck.


The short strips are not really something that we run into much - Its pretty rare for us to go anywhere less than 5k. Just going over some of the published comparison numbers it appears to have slightly better performance than the Challenger. I hear you about the reversers though - it nice to know you have them...

What is the cabin at at FL430?
Is it tricky to land with the straight leg mains?
Hourly burn at a normal cruise speed?
FADEC engines?
Any whacky issues or quirks with the 900s'?

We do international a half a dozen time a year so not enough to justify the heavy iron. wW are trying to stick to a/c that have around the same range (3800-4000ish) we currently have which seems to work fine for us.


QuietSpike
12-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Are you guys not considering a top of the line F2000?

That is a fantastic airplane.

Everything NowCorp said about the 900 I can second. As is the case for most TFE powered aircraft, the 900 is very ISA sensitive... but so is the 604/605 for that matter.

However... from a back-of-the-airplane perspective... nothing in that range beats the 605's cabin.

If you can't go as big as a G450 or a F2000, then I think you are in a toss-up between the two.

NowCorporate
12-07-2010, 02:05 PM
A

If you can't go as big as a G450 or a F2000, then I think you are in a toss-up between the two.

DA900 - cabin width 7'8"
cabin height 6'2"

DA2000 - cabin width 7'8"
cabin height 6'2"

G450 - cabin width 7'4"
cabin height 6"2"

cobber
12-07-2010, 02:15 PM
Are you guys not considering a top of the line F2000?

That is a fantastic airplane.

Everything NowCorp said about the 900 I can second. As is the case for most TFE powered aircraft, the 900 is very ISA sensitive... but so is the 604/605 for that matter.

However... from a back-of-the-airplane perspective... nothing in that range beats the 605's cabin.

If you can't go as big as a G450 or a F2000, then I think you are in a toss-up between the two.

These 2 a/c seem to have the same issues with high ISA. The 604 is a pig above 350 if you are heavy and apparently the 605 is no different.

Yeah our principal does love the Challenger cabin though, its like flying around in your living room. The performance would have to be very noticeable to get him into a different manufacturer but we've heard so much good stuff about Falcons that that want to give them a serious look. Our price cap is under 20 (which is about what the 605s we have been looking at are hovering at) so the new 2000/G450 is probably not an option for us but we have looked at them. The 450 inparticular would be a healthy increase in operating cost from our current situation.

NowCorporate
12-07-2010, 02:17 PM
What is the cabin at at FL430?
Is it tricky to land with the straight leg mains?
Hourly burn at a normal cruise speed?
FADEC engines?
Any whacky issues or quirks with the 900s'?




- You wont be at FL430 much. Its just makes no sense to go there in it. I forget the 900 but the current EASy I fly is just below 4000ft at FL410. Im sure its similar. 900's run at FL370-FL410 for the most part. Anything else is wasting gas or doing some bizarre 10hr Mach .72 Dassault profile flight.

- One of the easiest jet airplanes you will ever land. Its fine in heavy xwinds, has low refs, but kinda weak, grabby brakes and, as discussed, the TR is worthless...

- No clue on hourly burn, sorry. It sips gas. What Falcon makes up for with under-powering they make up for in fuel burns. Kinda makes sense I guess, lol. Falcons put out great budget numbers. We run ours for about 35% less than we would run a G550/Global and can still get about 6000nm out of it. (more than enough for us) If budget is no concern go with the power of other OEMs (IMO)

- FADEC and Autothrottle. Not used for T/O or Landing. No auto-retard.

- Nothing wacky at all, its a very solid, simple, reliaable airplane. You can go from opening the door to rolling off the ramp in about 5 minutes. Its just that 731s are made to power learjets and be APUs - not be powerplants on real airplanes..:)

QuietSpike
12-07-2010, 04:01 PM
DA900 - cabin width 7'8"
cabin height 6'2"

DA2000 - cabin width 7'8"
cabin height 6'2"

G450 - cabin width 7'4"
cabin height 6"2"

When are you going to learn that I know what I am talking about? :rolleyes:


DA2000 cabin volume- 1024 ft3

DA900 cabin volume- 1267 ft3

G450 cabin volume- 1525 ft3


DA2000LX max range- 3905nm

DA900EX max range- 4263nm

G450 max range- 4430nm



It is not my "opinion" that the 450 cabin is bigger, and that it costs more to operate, and that it goes farther than the others... it is just a fact!

BoilerUP
12-07-2010, 04:42 PM
Can you touch a 900EASy for $20M, even in this used aircraft market?

I'd think if that's the budget you have and you're looking for range similar to your 604, a used 2000EASy (especially with API winglets) should be a more "reasonable" option than a 900EX or EASy.

NowCorporate
12-07-2010, 05:48 PM
Was gonna say...24-25mil may be your number, if you get lucky.

A price cap of 20mil wont likely get you in a 900ex EASy today. Look at 900EX maybe? or a 2000EX Easy at maybe 20mil.

You missed the lows about 18 months ago on the larger Falcons.....7X's back over 50mil now and newer 900EX EASy around 40mil.

Good Luck in the search!


PS - Have your considered the STREAM' 200?
;-)

QuietSpike
12-07-2010, 06:42 PM
Was gonna say...24-25mil may be your number, if you get lucky.

A price cap of 20mil wont likely get you in a 900ex EASy today. Look at 900EX maybe? or a 2000EX Easy at maybe 20mil.

You missed the lows about 18 months ago on the larger Falcons.....7X's back over 50mil now and newer 900EX EASy around 40mil.

Good Luck in the search!


PS - Have your considered the STREAM' 200?
;-)


LoL

900EX is a great plane...

2000EX would be my choice over any of them (including the mighty G200!)... just from a pilot's perspective... very capable, and great flying machine. I would say the DA2000 is one of, if not the best hand-flying aircraft available.:cool:

Rice
12-09-2010, 08:05 AM
I looked at about a dozen EX's before we bought our EASy almost two years ago.
A 900EX can be had for under $18mil but you better do your homework. B and or C inspections can be expensive. Gear overhaul (120 months/can be extended to 144 months to coincide with a 2/4C insp), you're looking at $200k+ and 4-6 weeks down time.

900EASy, I doubt you can touch one for less than $25mil today. EASy II avionics upgrade (when it eventually shows up) will range anywhere from $50k for the base to $700k for all the bells and whistles.

As for the TR gripes, IMO, people make way to big of deal over it. We operate into numerous short fields and it's never a problem. Brakes are plentiful if you plan a reasonable landing weight. 3000 lbs of fuel is our typical load at destination. With 4-5 pax that puts us at a Vref of about 112 kts. No problem making it into a 4250' runway even if it's wet. We often go to KASE empty and typically tanker fuel in and then go to TEB. Again, no problem.

Our home airport's field elevation is in excess of 5500' PA. On a summer day, we can still get the plane slowed below 60kts in about 5000' using only the TR for braking.

The 731-60's have a little more power tha the -5BR's on the 900B. On the EX/EASy you'll typically start out at FL 380-390 and then step up to FL 410-430 but the plane is very ISA sensitive above +5.

Never heard of flying any 900 @ .72-.73m. LRC of .75 is slow enough for us and almost never used. Cruise at .82m for 7.5+hrs, .80m for 8-8.5hrs, .78m for 9+hrs. You DO NOT want to be in the seat for any longer than that, they're just not very comfortable.

I doubt you will ever fly a nicer handling plane than either of these two Falcons. They're just that good. Nimble and yet very stable, truly a nice ride. Very good handling in strong x-winds, however, you will work it all the way down to the runway. Cabin is around 5800' @ FL430.

Lastly, the 2000EX/EASy and especially the LX is a great plane. (The original 2000, not so much.) However, the boss will be giving up quite a bit in the cabin and going from a 604/605, the 2000 will "feel" like a step backward but the 900 will definitely be a move upward. Also, the lack of inboard slats on the 2000's keep the plane from meeting or beating the respective 900's runway numbers.

Hope this helps.

NowCorporate
12-09-2010, 08:33 AM
Oh jeesh...look who showed up.

:-)

cobber
12-09-2010, 12:52 PM
Was gonna say...24-25mil may be your number, if you get lucky.

A price cap of 20mil wont likely get you in a 900ex EASy today. Look at 900EX maybe? or a 2000EX Easy at maybe 20mil.

You missed the lows about 18 months ago on the larger Falcons.....7X's back over 50mil now and newer 900EX EASy around 40mil.

Good Luck in the search!


PS - Have your considered the STREAM' 200?
;-)


Oh boy.... Are we gonna go down the G-200 road again? :)


Yeah the EASy is above what our guy wants to spend so the 605 fits our bill the best. Plus theres the transition for us and our maint tech will be much easier.

cobber
12-09-2010, 01:05 PM
I looked at about a dozen EX's before we bought our EASy almost two years ago.
A 900EX can be had for under $18mil but you better do your homework. B and or C inspections can be expensive. Gear overhaul (120 months/can be extended to 144 months to coincide with a 2/4C insp), you're looking at $200k+ and 4-6 weeks down time.

900EASy, I doubt you can touch one for less than $25mil today. EASy II avionics upgrade (when it eventually shows up) will range anywhere from $50k for the base to $700k for all the bells and whistles.

As for the TR gripes, IMO, people make way to big of deal over it. We operate into numerous short fields and it's never a problem. Brakes are plentiful if you plan a reasonable landing weight. 3000 lbs of fuel is our typical load at destination. With 4-5 pax that puts us at a Vref of about 112 kts. No problem making it into a 4250' runway even if it's wet. We often go to KASE empty and typically tanker fuel in and then go to TEB. Again, no problem.

Our home airport's field elevation is in excess of 5500' PA. On a summer day, we can still get the plane slowed below 60kts in about 5000' using only the TR for braking.

The 731-60's have a little more power tha the -5BR's on the 900B. On the EX/EASy you'll typically start out at FL 380-390 and then step up to FL 410-430 but the plane is very ISA sensitive above +5.

Never heard of flying any 900 @ .72-.73m. LRC of .75 is slow enough for us and almost never used. Cruise at .82m for 7.5+hrs, .80m for 8-8.5hrs, .78m for 9+hrs. You DO NOT want to be in the seat for any longer than that, they're just not very comfortable.

I doubt you will ever fly a nicer handling plane than either of these two Falcons. They're just that good. Nimble and yet very stable, truly a nice ride. Very good handling in strong x-winds, however, you will work it all the way down to the runway. Cabin is around 5800' @ FL430.

Lastly, the 2000EX/EASy and especially the LX is a great plane. (The original 2000, not so much.) However, the boss will be giving up quite a bit in the cabin and going from a 604/605, the 2000 will "feel" like a step backward but the 900 will definitely be a move upward. Also, the lack of inboard slats on the 2000's keep the plane from meeting or beating the respective 900's runway numbers.

Hope this helps.





Yes thanks for the detailed info. We may need to go fly one with the boss onboard to see what he thinks and maybe that will bump up the price cap.

Rice
12-09-2010, 02:42 PM
Oh jeesh...look who showed up.

:-)

Settle down Francis.
Don't you have a meal to cook or a Barbie to play with???? :-)

NowCorporate
12-09-2010, 06:21 PM
Settle down Francis.
Don't you have a meal to cook or a Barbie to play with???? :-)


You know me too well. Being a house biatch aint EASy....:)