Airline Pilot Forums

Hello to all,
I need some sound advice. I'm currently in my last semester at college in VA pursing an aviation concentrated degree. I have 205TT, 20 hours away from my commercial. After which I will be getting my multi and then graduate at the end of April. My ultimate goal is to get my CFI by the end of the summer and instruct while pursuing my masters degree here at my current college starting September. However, in the time being (April - September), I really wanted to get some tail wheel time by doing some banner towing.
I guess my real question is do I have a chance getting a job with say 250TT 20 Tail Wheel?
If so what avenues should I be pursuing? I'm an international student having no ties anywhere in the US hence I'm open to moving anywhere.

Or is it just not feasible in this current economy?

Thanks in advance!

I didn't have any more than that when I got into it. I just called up the 2 local companies I knew of and asked if I could train to do it. One of them was willing to train and the other wasn't. So they will probably listen to your story at least, and if they are really busy consider training you to do their particular system. If they are not busy or in need of help they are going to either pass or perhaps try and get you to pay for your own training somewhere else. I would be leery of buying more than a few hours of training for an operation they should train you for. Set a limit on it and if they waffle after the first few hours are complete in your paid training, consider it money lost and walk away. There are a bunch of shady banner tow training outfits in Florida also, I would avoid those. Realistically there are a lot pilots on the street now and I doubt you are going to see much action but there's no harm in asking.

My advice, do whatever you have to in order to get your CFI as soon as possible. There is no more wasted flight time than flying banners. I wanted to continually poke myself in the eye, and it's all done flying crappy airplanes that are maintained JUST well enough to drag rags. Watched three co-workers make off airport landings, one wound up in the surf, two died. A CFI job is MUCH better experience, and you'll probably make more money, and enjoy it more.

Watched three co-workers make off airport landings, one wound up in the surf, two died. A CFI job is MUCH better experience, and you'll probably make more money, and enjoy it more.

I second that. My flight instructor towed for a little, ended up landing on the beach. Thankfully he turned out fine, and no one was hurt. A friend of his passed away from banners though. Thats not to say some companies are legit, just know that it COULD be risky flying.

My advice, do whatever you have to in order to get your CFI as soon as possible. There is no more wasted flight time than flying banners. I wanted to continually poke myself in the eye, and it's all done flying crappy airplanes that are maintained JUST well enough to drag rags. Watched three co-workers make off airport landings, one wound up in the surf, two died. A CFI job is MUCH better experience, and you'll probably make more money, and enjoy it more.

Definitely I agree on getting my CFI asap. However due to my immigration status I can ONLY work within the field of "aviation flight operations" nothing else. So instead of sitting home all summer while working on my CFI I just wanted to get into some type of flying.

Be very careful with compaines that require you to pay for your training--especially in the Daytona Beach, FL area. Banner Tow operators are the bottom feeders of the aviation industry. Many are just plain criminals. Use Caution !!!!

Be very careful with compaines that require you to pay for your training--especially in the Daytona Beach, FL area. Banner Tow operators are the bottom feeders of the aviation industry. Many are just plain criminals. Use Caution !!!!

Tim still in business in DAB? He should be in jail...

Tim still in business in DAB? He should be in jail...

WOW....when I was looking into towing banners, I think I heard from 10-15 different people to stay away from that guy. From they way they talked, I am very surprised he is still in business.

I have towed for 2 different companies. The first, in Myrtle Beach, was pretty typical. Horrible planes and very low pay. Had to pay for part of training too. I managed not to kill myself or have any incident whatsoever. Others were not so lucky. The second company, down in Hollywood, FL (ft. lauderdale basically) couldn't be farther from the first. Top notch mx dept. Pay was $45/hr. 2 hr weather cancelation pay. Tons of x-country time. Didn't pay a dime for training. Got job #1 with 250tt, 5 tw. The latter company has been known to hire both experienced banner towers and low timers. They usually like to see at least 25 tw. If I could do it again I never would have worked for the Myrtle outfit and would have tried to get on with the HollyHood guys. Draggin rags can be dangerous, I'll admit. But if you are careful and the company takes care of their equipment and pilots, it can be a great way to build time. I got 1200 hrs in 2 summers basically. Anyone can PM me for more info. Be glad to go into more detail.

I have towed for 2 different companies. The first, in Myrtle Beach, was pretty typical. Horrible planes and very low pay. Had to pay for part of training too. I managed not to kill myself or have any incident whatsoever. Others were not so lucky. The second company, down in Hollywood, FL (ft. lauderdale basically) couldn't be farther from the first. Top notch mx dept. Pay was $45/hr. 2 hr weather cancelation pay. Tons of x-country time. Didn't pay a dime for training. Got job #1 with 250tt, 5 tw. The latter company has been known to hire both experienced banner towers and low timers. They usually like to see at least 25 tw. If I could do it again I never would have worked for the Myrtle outfit and would have tried to get on with the HollyHood guys. Draggin rags can be dangerous, I'll admit. But if you are careful and the company takes care of their equipment and pilots, it can be a great way to build time. I got 1200 hrs in 2 summers basically. Anyone can PM me for more info. Be glad to go into more detail.

I went and talked to both in person, if we are thinking of the same guys. The guy in hollywood didn't like the fact that I said if I lose an engine and there's no one under me, I'm ditching the banner. He tried to convince me that a banner behind an airplane would EXTEND the gliding distance. Seemed to me he was more worried about losing equipment than safety.

Flight instructing is good experience, plus you get comfortable with uncoordinated power on stalls and learn a lot.

Don't let anyone tell you that towing banners is a waste of time, or that you won't be able to get a job anywhere else. That is just not true, most people in my experience that towed banners and then couldn't move on had some other hang up that kept them from getting a job. (Most of the time it was their personality to be quite honest). I'm a current airline pilot, former corporate and corporate international guy, and my family owns a banner towing operation. We have well maintained airplanes and the business has seen nothing but steady growth for the past 6 years even in a crummy economy. As a matter of fact with the way a lot of people fly these days, I would pick someone who flew banners, crop dusted, did power line patrol, flew night freight ect... over a CFI. Main reason, chances are if you are still breathing and typing you can actually fly an airplane. Nothing against instructing, it has it's place for sure. As far as your time, I know that we typically hire guys with the minimum commercial time. We also take the time to train you properly, and no you don't have to pay for it. I would never go to work anywhere that you have to PAY FOR YOUR OWN training. This includes airline, corporate ect..that is a huge red flag.The only time we have ever asked for someone to pay was after almost 10 hours of instruction from myself personally, the individual was just not getting it. Mostly because he just didn't care, he was a friend of a friend and thought he was just entitled to the job. It was more of a way to just get him to leave. Plus there comes a point were it's no longer cost effective to continue trying to train someone like that. If I don't think you can do it, I will tell you.

As for the guys in MYR and DAB, I know of all of them well. ( One of my good friends when in the drink in MYR in a Super Cub) And have had dealings with them. Are they any more dangerous than anyone else? I don't know about that, it's been my experience in flying lots of different types of planes in different jobs that things happen and planes break. It has happened to me. I think the major issue is that guys and girls come from a nice flight school flying a nice Piper or Cessna and that is what they are used to. It's always fixed, if it's windy you don't go, ect ect ect. Then they get their first job towing and its a shock when the boss says go. It's like that everywhere. Don't kid yourself if you think otherwise.

If you already have a tailwheel endorsement and time, you should not require any training contract or pay for training. If they would like to fly with you for an hour to make sure you are what you say, then that would be fine. The only hang up I could see is if their insurance required so much time in type. Very typical scenario, usually 10 hours. Best bet is the call the company and sell yourself and see what you get. By the way where are you going to school? Liberty? Feel free to PM me.

thelittlefaa.com is hiring urgently, according to Climbto350 for Banner Towing. It's in St. Petersburg, FL.

Great!! Do you have any more info regarding the job opening from climbto350? I do not have an account with them, but will be calling down to St. Petersburg tomorrow. Thank you.

Buyer beware. If "The Little FAA" is run by the same B.B. I knew when I was a kid, that guy is insane. They threw him out of SRQ for fist fighting with the banner tow competition. If I'm not mistaken, the FAA also yanked his medical for Lithium dependency. Have fun with that one.

yellow airplanes with "FAA" in big letters---issues !

thelittlefaa.com is hiring urgently, according to Climbto350 for Banner Towing. It's in St. Petersburg, FL.

I've learned that you don't want to come within a 50nm radius of that place.

I went and talked to both in person, if we are thinking of the same guys. The guy in hollywood didn't like the fact that I said if I lose an engine and there's no one under me, I'm ditching the banner. He tried to convince me that a banner behind an airplane would EXTEND the gliding distance. Seemed to me he was more worried about losing equipment than safety.

Flight instructing is good experience, plus you get comfortable with uncoordinated power on stalls and learn a lot.

There are 2 different companies based in Hollywood. If you do have to ditch in the water, I'd leave the banner on. Not because it would extend your gliding distance, cause that obviously won't happen, but because when the banner hits the water it will help keep the plane from flipping over. Kinda like an anchor. Or cut the banner and try to glide to the shore and hope you don't hit some kid and/or his sand castle. Either way the plane and banner will probably get trashed. And then you will need to get trashed!

There are 2 different companies based in Hollywood. If you do have to ditch in the water, I'd leave the banner on. Not because it would extend your gliding distance, cause that obviously won't happen, but because when the banner hits the water it will help keep the plane from flipping over. Kinda like an anchor. Or cut the banner and try to glide to the shore and hope you don't hit some kid and/or his sand castle. Either way the plane and banner will probably get trashed. And then you will need to get trashed!

I'd keep it on as it may help with SAR efforts in spotting the airplane. You may be unable to swim to shore.

My advice, do whatever you have to in order to get your CFI as soon as possible. There is no more wasted flight time than flying banners. I wanted to continually poke myself in the eye, and it's all done flying crappy airplanes that are maintained JUST well enough to drag rags. Watched three co-workers make off airport landings, one wound up in the surf, two died. A CFI job is MUCH better experience, and you'll probably make more money, and enjoy it more.

Really?? Wasted of time??

Let me tell you kid. I'm still a kid too (23 yr old). I did banner town before gettig my CFI. You will learn how to really maintain coordinated airplane, fly really slow will help your stick and rudder. And flying stick will help you to transition to the right seat, since you fly with the power in left and stick in right.

I did banner towing and instructed for 2 years. Best experience I had. And I gained more money flying banners than instructing. ($30 per hr vs. 20 instructing per hr). They also pay me minimum federal salary per hour on the ground.

So don't listen to the guys that tells you is a waste of time.

I flew after that 135 cargo, everybody like that hired me like my banner experience, even A. Eagle (which is where I am right now after 3 years in ga planes).

Don't listen to guys here, make your own decisions. You'll do fine.

Anybody have the good, bad and ugly on the Van Wagners ?? It seems they are the best if there is such a thing in the rag dragging biz.

Really?? Wasted of time??

Let me tell you kid. I'm still a kid too (23 yr old). I did banner town before gettig my CFI. You will learn how to really maintain coordinated airplane, fly really slow will help your stick and rudder. And flying stick will help you to transition to the right seat, since you fly with the power in left and stick in right.

I did banner towing and instructed for 2 years. Best experience I had. And I gained more money flying banners than instructing. ($30 per hr vs. 20 instructing per hr). They also pay me minimum federal salary per hour on the ground.

So don't listen to the guys that tells you is a waste of time.

I flew after that 135 cargo, everybody like that hired me like my banner experience, even A. Eagle (which is where I am right now after 3 years in ga planes).

Don't listen to guys here, make your own decisions. You'll do fine.

ROTFLMAO, I've been flying almost 20 years. Kid... that's good comedy from a 23 year old. I was instructing when you were still eating paste. Yes, banner towing is a waste of time, good for nothing more than some easy total time padding.

I must disagree. The "kid" is trying to make it in this crazy world in his chosen profession and it sounds like he's doing a good job of it. Towing Banners, CFIing, spotting crop circles; it's all flying--keep-em-flying !

Anyone heard of Ad Airlines, LLC? They operate out of Chicago with permits in Mexico and Florida...I guess you fly hot air balloons, trikes, and fly banners...salaried at $17,500 and you draw against that at a rate of $20/hour when u fly banners/trikes and $200/3 hours when in balloons...idk how busy they are though or if it'd be a good gig. Advice is very welcome

I know 2 people who died dragin' rags. I almost lost it a couple of times myself.

It's dangerous, it's good for hours, it CAN be good cash.

If you just invented banner towing and took your idea to the FAA, they'd laugh you out of the building.

If you have to land with the banner on land or in water, be sure you dive and level out. When the banner hits, it will stop you. if you're 20' up, you're going to fall 20 feet.

Landing with the banner is an interesting day.