Airline Pilot Forums

Hey everybody, I'm curious what you think.
I've been working for my current employer for 8 months and have been enjoying my job and schedule, but recent upgrade issues have come I to play. I was hired as a low time, project pilot (2800 TT, 400 multi, 325 multi turbine) to fly Cheyenne 2's and 3's part 135. We also operate 2 PC-12's, a Citation Excel and a Citation V. I was hired on the stipulation when I get to 500 multi I get a raise and become eligible for upgrades. In my second month with the company I experienced a catastrophic engine failure in the company's 210 on a 135 flight with 3 pax, and made a successful off-airport landing with no injuries or damage. After paperwork was filed and a phone interview with the FAA it was ruled as neither and accident nor and incident. Since then my DO has been treating me with less and less respect and 2 pilots have been hired into the Cheyennes who now hold seniority over me. I have been assured that my job is not in jeopardy, but I am flying less and less (one trip last week, none this week). I am concerned that my DO is no longer considering me for upgrades, and I'm thinking that it might be time to move on.
What do you think? Should I stick it out and see what happens or should I look elsewhere? What opportunities are there for a guy with my time other than freight (been there, done that)?
Thanks for your input.

Toss a couple of resumes out to those who are looking for pilots. Besides that, look at your job versus your QOL...if there is what you deem to be an issue, then it is time for a change.

Should you get offered another job, that gives you something to go to bat with against your DO. If they cant compete, then it is time to move on.

Before you assume too much. Try to talk to your DO and have an honest man to man talk with him and don't get confrontational. Be honest, but easy going and you may get somewhere by doing that. You never know, maybe sticking it out may be your best option. Don't burn bridges.
Good luck and it seems you have handled things correctly.

Outlaw and ggerritsen, thanks for your responses. My DO is actually a really cool guy and is very easy to talk to. We just had pilot evaluations a couple of weeks ago, so I had a chance to sit down with my DO and CP and talk privately. I raised some of my concerns about progression within the company and the CP was sticking up for me quite a bit, but the DO just kind of shrugged of my concerns. Since then a new pilot has been hired and already been upgraded. Granted, I'm not the highest tome guy around, but I can't seem to figure out what a guy's got to do. I've put feeler resumes out, but honestly, I the QOL is pretty decent. No one likes working for a place where there is no way up though. I guess that's my primary concern.

Just my .02 cents. Using another job offer as leverage may seem like a good idea, but it may come across as trying to strong arm. If a company truly values you as an employee then they should try to accommodate REASONABLE requests. If they aren't open to such requests, then perhaps it's time to dust off the old resume. However, just like everyone else will tell you. Don't burn bridges!

Ziggy,
I don't want anyone at work to feel like I have any sense of entitlement by waving another job offer in their faces. The truth is that I don't know that I could get another job offer. I have a reasonable amount of time with the exception of multi time, so I don't have another offer to use as leverage anyway. Obviously, if there is something better out there I'd like to look into it, but if this is it for now I guess I'll just keep on keeping on.

Find another job.

Years ago, I was in the same situation. The simple fact was the DO didn't like me. I was hired because they needed a body, not because they really wanted me. Move on.

Jetprop, I know I was hired out of desperation as I was told repeatedly by the DO that I was undequalified, but I was the only one available. With that in mind I wanted to be certain that I could show him that I am an asset to the company. The company repeatedly recieves complimentary emails regarding my piloting services which are forwarded to me, and I am the most often tipped pilot. I just assumed that even though I was hired in a pinch that my demonstrated value to the company would change how the DO sees me.
I'm not the type to do a job poorly just because some has low expectations for me, so I'll just keep doing my job the best I can and keep my eyes out for something else.

Jetprop, I know I was hired out of desperation as I was told repeatedly by the DO that I was undequalified, but I was the only one available. With that in mind I wanted to be certain that I could show him that I am an asset to the company. The company repeatedly recieves complimentary emails regarding my piloting services which are forwarded to me, and I am the most often tipped pilot. I just assumed that even though I was hired in a pinch that my demonstrated value to the company would change how the DO sees me.
I'm not the type to do a job poorly just because some has low expectations for me, so I'll just keep doing my job the best I can and keep my eyes out for something else.

Sometimes you are just worrying about something you are powerless to fix. Sometimes people just dont like us, but as long as you continue to hold youself to a higher standard you will do alright. I would say with your hours you can find something else if you look hard enough, but it might require a change of scenery. Good luck:D

Your problem may just be your insurability with the company. After your non- accident/incedent the insurance company still probably had to pay out a claim which means you may be a higher cost to the company. It may not be personal but just business from the DO's perspective. Don't burn your bridges, but if you get another job offer that offers you an opportunity for growth it may benefit you to take it. Don't use another offer as leverage as it will taint your current employment relationship, if you can find a better position leave, if not stay.

I was actually mildly chastised by the DO on behalf of the company ownership for throwing the gear down during my off-airport landing. My judgement call to extend the gear allowed me to land the aircraft with no damage whatsoever despite the mountainous terrain. The company owners would have liked to get a payout from the insurance company and now they are stuck repairing an airframe that they would like to be rid of. I was given the impression that the owners were disappointed to learn that I didn't total the airplane. Perhaps it's the company owners rather than the DO that aren't too pleased with me. Anyhow, I'm always looking for something that would provide me and my family with more financial security, but Ian the mean time I'll keep enjoying my turbine flying here in the northwest.

I was actually mildly chastised by the DO on behalf of the company ownership for throwing the gear down during my off-airport landing. My judgement call to extend the gear allowed me to land the aircraft with no damage whatsoever despite the mountainous terrain. The company owners would have liked to get a payout from the insurance company and now they are stuck repairing an airframe that they would like to be rid of. I was given the impression that the owners were disappointed to learn that I didn't total the airplane. Perhaps it's the company owners rather than the DO that aren't too pleased with me. Anyhow, I'm always looking for something that would provide me and my family with more financial security, but Ian the mean time I'll keep enjoying my turbine flying here in the northwest.

I think if it were me I'd be moving on. I can't really get my feeble brain around the idea of being "mildly chastised" for not totaling the airframe in an off-airport landing with three revenue passengers on board. That just sounds like a gross indifference to both yours and their safety and your future career.

I was actually mildly chastised by the DO on behalf of the company ownership for throwing the gear down during my off-airport landing. My judgement call to extend the gear allowed me to land the aircraft with no damage whatsoever despite the mountainous terrain. The company owners would have liked to get a payout from the insurance company and now they are stuck repairing an airframe that they would like to be rid of. I was given the impression that the owners were disappointed to learn that I didn't total the airplane. Perhaps it's the company owners rather than the DO that aren't too pleased with me. Anyhow, I'm always looking for something that would provide me and my family with more financial security, but Ian the mean time I'll keep enjoying my turbine flying here in the northwest.

I'm pretty sure the medical bills if something would have happened to the pax after a gear up would have been triple what the airplane was worth...

I would also try and move on, if that is the impression you are getting. It seems at some of these smaller companies that whatever mindset they have of you when you are hired, that that is how they see you from then on..

So if you were a little green with low multi-time, and not quite ready for an upgrade, that is how they will see you for 2+ years. I've seen it.

Yeah, I'm getting the impression that I'll always be "the new guy" regardless of my experience or employment duration with the company. It's unfortunate, but I guess it's all part of this industry's mindset.

Idaho you are a true hero in my book, employing out of the box thinking so that both you and your passengers could walk away from impending disaster. It staggers the imagination why management wouldn't promote someone with your potential, but then I'm just a line Captain and not management, which is fine by me.

Idaho Flyer,

First off, great job on putting that bird with then engine failure down safely. Secondly, for right now you have a job, which many don't and it sounds as though it is at least paying the bills. Having said that, start looking really hard if you are not already. I would suggest some employment web sites like findapilot.com, etc.

Be really careful not to tip your hand with regards to this search, and don't make an announcement until a new job is a sure thing. I would request that a new potential employer not contact the present folks for references etc. until the last possible minute. If your Chief Pilot is sticking up for you and this is still how you are treated, it sounds as though he doesn't have much clout. Anyway, just my .02 and good luck with all.

I was actually mildly chastised by the DO on behalf of the company ownership for throwing the gear down during my off-airport landing. My judgement call to extend the gear allowed me to land the aircraft with no damage whatsoever despite the mountainous terrain.

This also kept an accident / incident off of your record. Such marks cost you, even if they're not your fault. The DO and his superiors have a Mafia mentality wrt insurance claims, it seems, and don't care what an accident would do to your future (not to mention potential injuries).

Keep sending out apps while doing a good job, quietly and with class. When that happy time comes , give plenty of notice. It sounds like your CP will write a nice letter of reference. Your current company sounds like a good place to be "from".

Hey all,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'll always be on the lookout for something that may be better and it seems that now is a good time to be more ambitious about that search.

IdahoFlyer. - Dude there are a lot of opportunities out there right now for your experience level. I don't know why you'd think you would have to go back to flying freight. I wish I had your turbine time. Stick your head up. Take a look around. That's free. Seems to me you have a lot of time where you can go interview....unless you're always on call.

are you at Conyan (sp)?

Pause-kind of sounds like doesn't it. No gripes with the company really. I'd just like to know that my career has a way up.

I understand. Seems like some good advice in previous folks. I was just wondering. Idaho is kind of small a small state. Not too many operators. Good luck. I'm sure it will all work out for you.

Thanks pause. You with SP?