Airline Pilot Forums

Seems the FAA is taking an increasingly tough stance on those shining laser beams at aircraft. Looks like state laws are soon to be bolstered with new federal laws:

Penalties increase for flashing lasers at planes - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Penalties-increase-for-flashing-lasers-at-planes-/47854794/1)

USMCFLYR

Got popped in the eye myself. I tried to give the coontroller the exact location (street and building in Irving TX) but he just wanted general direction and distance from airport.

I had a couple of guys beaming us (about 5) with high powered flash/search lights once in the night pattern at Fentriss Field outside Virginia Beach. Come to find out that wasn't the ONLY thing they were pointing our way. They had been taking pot shots at us with a shotgun and a .22 rifle too :mad:

USMCFLYR

I couldn't help but chuckle when I clicked the link to read this thread, and the advertisements on the page are for laser pointers.

Seems the FAA is taking an increasingly tough stance on those shining laser beams at aircraft. Looks like state laws are soon to be bolstered with new federal laws:

Penalties increase for flashing lasers at planes - USATODAY.com (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Penalties-increase-for-flashing-lasers-at-planes-/47854794/1)

USMCFLYR

Meh, how are those federal laws doing to stop people from doing stupid stuff (masturbation, fist-fights, punching FA's) on planes? From what I hear, people generally plead down to a fine and a federal misdemeanor most of the defendants don't have the cash to pay a lawyer and will use the court appointed attorney to fight it out in court (which prosecutors hate).

I hear from folks flying oceanic/coastal/Caribbean that they frequently get hit by people on cruise boats & pleasure craft at night and that the coast guard doesn't have the manpower to do anything about it.

If our tax dollars can fund a US Customs agency that seems to be very effective at stopping me from buying faux/clone electronics, why cant they pull the high-powered lasers that come in from China? For all the double talk, its clearly not a priority for our government.

What I don't understand is why people want to do this anyway?

A follow up article with rankings of cities getting the most reports of laser hits.
LAX, ORD, PHK, DFW being airports mentioned specifically in the article.

Lasers a problem for pilots (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/06/05/20110605lasers-problem-pilots.html)

USMCFLYR

I couldn't help but chuckle when I clicked the link to read this thread, and the advertisements on the page are for laser pointers.

Google ads are "targeted" so they mine the article for keywords and display ads related to the article. It leads to some horribly amusing stuff. The creepiest is when they do it in GMail -- one of my friends emailed me regarding a breakup with her boyfriend, and in the side were ads for "Divorce attorneys" and "Single dating sites" etc.


If our tax dollars can fund a US Customs agency that seems to be very effective at stopping me from buying faux/clone electronics, why cant they pull the high-powered lasers that come in from China? For all the double talk, its clearly not a priority for our government.

Well, they are legal, and the lasers have many other uses (astronomy, surveying, science, etc.) Probably don't want to start regulating that kind of stuff, which would become a huge government overreach.

What I don't understand is why people want to do this anyway?

Lots of idiots out there. :(

Although I'm by no means defending it and it absolutely should be penalized/illegal, it seems like the shakiness of a person's hand combined with beam spread would mean that the energy delivered is far from dangerous to eyesight even with the 200mW. More the annoyance / startle / distraction factor, but could be dangerous if they were close I suppose, or somebody did something incredibly annoying and stupid like shine it on the glideslope.

Fish in the barrel.
First test of the pumped up regs?

Texas man charged with pointing laser at plane | wcsh6.com (http://www.wcsh6.com/news/national/article/161666/44/Texas-man-charged-with-pointing-laser-at-plane?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7C p)

USMCFLYR

Well, they are legal, and the lasers have many other uses (astronomy, surveying, science, etc.) Probably don't want to start regulating that kind of stuff, which would become a huge government overreach.


I was talking more to the higher power stuff that people buy off the Internet (the kind you do NOT want to look into). That gear is totally different than the legitimate stuff used in engineering, etc.

Its just like the crappy cordless phones you can get from china that bleed/interfere with cellular phones (even though the frequency is really far away).

Looks like a recent incident in Louisville, KY.

Incidents Of Lasers Pointed At Planes Increasing, FAA Says - News Archives Story - WLKY Louisville (http://www.wlky.com/news-archives/28249192/detail.html)

USMCFLYR

Law of Unintended Consequemces.

Ocean City to ban sale of laser pointers after incident involving U.S. Coast Guard helicopter - pressofAtlanticCity.com: (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/upper_capemay/ocean-city-to-ban-sale-of-laser-pointers-after-incident/article_6f851b2a-9c83-11e0-88a7-001cc4c002e0.html)

I'm disappointed in the measely $1,000 fine when the new law says that $11,000 penalties can be assessed!

USMCFLYR

More incidents in the LA area.

Police make third laser arrest - Burbank Leader (http://www.burbankleader.com/news/tn-gnp-0628-laser,0,916340.story)

USMCFLYR

Recent incident that actually resulted in a minor injury!

Lasers-at-planes incidents grow; latest victim is JetBlue pilot - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-jet-blue-laser-20120717,0,3891992.story)

USMCFLYR

Laser incidents continue to be on the rise.

Lasers Strike Planes Trying to Land at GSP | WSPA (http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/jul/26/lasers-strike-planes-trying-land-gsp-ar-4215411/)

USMCFLYR

Over the past year we've had a number of people at KCRG complain about it. ATC never seems to care too much though

Over the past year we've had a number of people at KCRG complain about it. ATC never seems to care too much though
With the emphasis that the FAA has put on the incidents, I promise you that ATC cares. It is as easy as filling out a web based form for the pilot/crew too.

USMCFLYR

Over the past year we've had a number of people at KCRG complain about it. ATC never seems to care too much though

I got lasered on approach to CRG a month or so ago. ATC had me call and give them a report when we landed. Looked up the exact house on google maps and gave it to them. Never heard anything futher though. I don't understand why people are still doing this..

For anyone needing the links / info about reporting laser incidents:

Laser Incident Information and Reporting (http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/report/laserinfo/#RLI)

If you are a…
Pilot or air crew member who experienced a laser incident
Do this…
Contact the appropriate Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility as soon as possible following the incident. For guidance, see AC 70-2, Reporting of Laser Illumination of Aircraft (PDF).

After landing, please complete the Laser Beam Exposure Questionnaire (PDF) and fax it to the Washington Operations Control Center at 202-267-5289.
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/report/laserinfo/media/pilot_laser_report.pdf

Air Traffic Control (ATC) member who received an incident report from pilot or air crew member Submit incident information to the Domestic Events Network (DEN). For guidance, see AC 70-2, Reporting of Laser Illumination of Aircraft (PDF)

Member of the public who witnessed a laser incident Send email to LaserReports@faa.gov and include the following information:
Your name and contact information
Date and time you witnessed the incident
Location and description of the incident
After your email is received, FAA staff or the appropriate law enforcement organization will contact you to follow up.

USMCFLYR

SDB's with beam-riding seekers?

Increased laser incidents called "epidemic"

Laser strikes against airplanes now an “epidemic,” says FBI | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/laser-strikes-against-airplanes-now-an-epidemic-says-fbi/)

USMCFLYR

Why the hell is this so much fun for people? I've never understood it.

Why the hell is this so much fun for people? I've never understood it.

It isn't fun to get caught. Unfortunately, the dumbasses pulling this stuff don't know that.

Here's one. I don't think they caught the perp.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=SwhzR6UV4P0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSwhzR6UV4P0)

Was hit by a green laser light while flying over Ocean City, Maryland.

You don't really believe that these things will happen to you until it happens to you.

Make sure to report these incidents even if you don't think they will catch the person. Have faith that they will catch them.

Why the hell is this so much fun for people? I've never understood it.

The FBI reports that they are almost universally kids or unemployed criminals. I could easily imagine junior taking Dad's laser pointer out into the backyard with friends to light up the yard, then... "look, a plane!"

In honesty I would not have thought anything of that incident over Dayton, certainly not reported it to ATC. I've never been lit up (well, that I know of anyway) though.

Doubt there is risk of eye damage at any appreciable distance.

I couldn't help but chuckle when I clicked the link to read this thread, and the advertisements on the page are for laser pointers.

You see ads? You need a new browser!

Video: Camera shows laser being pointed at Dallas police helicopter that resulted in arrest | Dallas-Fort Worth Local Breaking News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20130128-faa-investigating-after-man-is-arrested-for-shining-laser-at-dallas-police-helicopter.ece)

Way to go Air 1!

Some clown in Long Island, NY was arrested last week for two incidents this past summer. He was stupid enough to do it to the police helicopter investigating the first incident. :rolleyes:

Laser aimed at Coast Guard plane landing on Maui - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/20809168/laser-aimed-at-coast-guard-plane-forces-landing)

"forced a Coast Guard plane to abort its landing during a training mission"

Initially made me think it was no kidding close to landing, BUT
turns out to be a little sensationalism

"At 4,000 feet, I noticed a green flash off my left side, a little bit to my left, and I looked down and there was a green laser," said Gastaldo"

[abort its' approach] or even [abort its' approach to landing] would have been more accurate in my opinion, but I'm no journalism major :)

Doubt there is risk of eye damage at any appreciable distance.


From an office-depot laser pointer, probably not. But industrial or scientific lasers are another story.

Unfortunately due to a laser beam's cohesion, if a laser is powerful enough to be dangerous at point-blank range it will be almost equally dangerous out to a range of many miles.

Basically if you're close enough for someone to track your aircraft with a laser, you're probably close enough to suffer eye damage if the laser is powerful enough. In this case distance only helps if you're in the flight levels...or in orbit.

The real problem is the ready availability of powerful lasers which have no legitimate use outside of science or industry.

I got lasered on approach to CRG a month or so ago. ATC had me call and give them a report when we landed. Looked up the exact house on google maps and gave it to them. Never heard anything futher though. I don't understand why people are still doing this..

I once had a 22 years old roommate who bought a 5 mW green laser, and liked to shine it in his friends' eyes often because he thought it was funny, despite the fact that even a 5 mW laser can permanently affect eye-sight if brought to bear at close range. One day he tried to shine it at me, and said that he would go out to "mess around" with people outside. I told him that if he ever pointed that thing at me or anyone else again, I would find a way to get him in legal trouble. It really angers me that idiots like this guy are out there and have a complete lack of respect for the health of others. :mad:

I got lased for the first time a week ago at DFW. It was simply a couple of green flashes... the dude obviously had a shaky hand. After the second flash, I had the spot narrowed down to a neighborhood, and I thought "One more flash, and I'll have a house." But it never came, so I did not bother to report it.

Altitude was about 6,000'. The laser must have been weak, or the flashes very, very brief, because it did nothing to distract or bother us. Just a winking green light from the ground.

I got lased for the first time a week ago at DFW. It was simply a couple of green flashes... the dude obviously had a shaky hand. After the second flash, I had the spot narrowed down to a neighborhood, and I thought "One more flash, and I'll have a house." But it never came, so I did not bother to report it.

Altitude was about 6,000'. The laser must have been weak, or the flashes very, very brief, because it did nothing to distract or bother us. Just a winking green light from the ground.


1. Don't look at it. It's hard to tell how powerful it is by looking until it's too late. It could damage your retina and you might not notice right away...or even until your next eye exam. Remember a few thousand feet or even a few miles does very little to "dilute" the strength of the beam...you might as well hold the device right in front of your face and stare straight into the beam. But a very powerful laser that could result in instant visual incapacitation would typically be very dazzling.

However...It would be possible to incapacitate pilots with a laser using light outside of the visible range, ie a CO2 laser which is typically a very powerful (and unfortunately very common) industrial tool. Since the beam is invisible (infrared) it would likely need a small laser-pointer-type visible laser boresighted to allow for aiming. So that little laser beam you see could in theory be the targeting system for something that would literally fry your retinas over-easy.

2. You should report it every time. Believe me, they really want to know about these. It may be a repeat offender and they may be ready to go get him with police air assets.

Posted before I believe - but as a rehash, here is the kink to the FAA website where you can report an incident.

Laser Safety Initiative (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/lasers/)

Educational too.

Posted before I believe - but as a rehash, here is the kink to the FAA website where you can report an incident.

Laser Safety Initiative (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/lasers/)

Educational too.

Airlines all have an internal reporting system, which provides data to the FAA (and other agencies).

If you report a laser in a terminal area, ATC will usually have law enforcement of some flavor come get a statement after you land.

Is there such a thing as a mini-HARM with a rubber warhead? :mad:

Laser aimed at Coast Guard plane landing on Maui - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/20809168/laser-aimed-at-coast-guard-plane-forces-landing)

"forced a Coast Guard plane to abort its landing during a training mission"

Initially made me think it was no kidding close to landing, BUT
turns out to be a little sensationalism

"At 4,000 feet, I noticed a green flash off my left side, a little bit to my left, and I looked down and there was a green laser," said Gastaldo"

[abort its' approach] or even [abort its' approach to landing] would have been more accurate in my opinion, but I'm no journalism major :)

This happens in Maui quite often actually. Hasn't happened to me but several times I have been entrail of an aircraft that is has happened to.

Is there such a thing as a mini-HARM with a rubber warhead? :mad:


That's funny!

This happens in Maui quite often actually. Hasn't happened to me but several times I have been entrail of an aircraft that is has happened to.


Grammar Police!

In Trail = following another airplane

Entrails = pile of animal guts on a slaughterhouse floor

Nice to see the Feds are stepping up on this issue. Now if ICAO and other country's regulatory agencies would do the same it would be nice.
Reported getting beamed in Europe and Middle East and it was like they didn't want to hear about it.

1. Don't look at it.

Haha, nearly impossible. It's the opposite of what we are trained to do with our eyes. I've been lasered a few times. Vegas, Phoenix...

In 2011, a Boston court gave a 52-year old man three years in jail for shining a power laser at planes and helicopters in the area. (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/laser-strikes-against-airplanes-now-an-epidemic-says-fbi/)

Just out of curiosity, anybody know what would happen to someone who gets lazed while wearing night vision?

S.A. pilots face a skyrocketing danger in the skies | kens5.com San Antonio (http://www.kens5.com/news/Lasers-continue-to-be-a--191139191.html)

I fly around the KSAT area quite often, though not at night.
Seems these incidents might even be worse in the helos with the chin bubbles.

Just out of curiosity, anybody know what would happen to someone who gets lazed while wearing night vision?

I wouldn't think there would be any effect on the eyes, as you are looking at tiny screen images. It may wash out to all-white screen-no scene, but the laser wont reach your eyes, until however, in an effort to see SOMETHING, looking outside/around/over/under the NVG's, which would expose your eyes to the laser.

Army manual FM 21-305/AFMAN 24-306
states:
Lasers. Lasers are used on the battlefield, both in
training and in combat. Lasers affect NVGs much
as other light sources do. Most lasers will not cause
permanent damage to NVGs. In fact, the goggles
protect the operator’s eyes from the damaging
effects of lasers, even if the laser is bright enough to
damage the goggles. If the goggles are damaged,
you can probably continue to use the goggles with a
bright or dark spot at the point where the tube was
damaged. If you think that a laser is being directed
at you, look away to reduce the effects of the laser
on the goggles and eyesight.

Aiming Laser Pointer at Airplane Gets Man 2.5 Years in Prison | Threat Level | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/steep-laser-pointer-sentence/)

I bet this gets reduced in a big way.

I bet this gets reduced in a big way.
Which is a damn shame.

Which is a damn shame.

No, this stupid prank now costs us around $150,000, not costing the amount of money officials spent during the search for him. He'll never pay that back.

I don't want to spend my tax dollars on a 19 year old able-bodied kid rotting in prison. Work/labor camps have been banned (my first choice), so get this kid to fly right, and if he can, get him to a vocational school or out being a productive member of society. Teach the kid some skills or else he'll come out and get on welfare. Sigh.

FAA Investigating Laser Incident Involving CVG Bound Plane - :: Cincinnati news story :: LOCAL 12 WKRC-TV in Cincinnati (http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story/FAA-Investigating-Laser-Incident-Involving-CVG/SzGIOFp0VkWCAr6k136fFg.cspx)

ABX crew got lased at 8,500' and was able to describe the origin of the beam to the vicinity of a large apartment complex.
Incidents continue on the rise this year. :(

I saw this the other day on amazon.com. This marketing shouldnt be allowed.

Amazon.com: 5mw 532nm Military High Power Green Laser Pointer Pen: Office Products (http://www.amazon.com/532nm-Military-Power-Green-Pointer/dp/B0062WL2VG)

A pilot at my airline just made it back to work after a year of medical leave. He had extensive eye surgery to restore vision in his eye after being struck by a laser. He only looked at it for half a second.

I saw this the other day on amazon.com. This marketing shouldnt be allowed.

Amazon.com: 5mw 532nm Military High Power Green Laser Pointer Pen: Office Products (http://www.amazon.com/532nm-Military-Power-Green-Pointer/dp/B0062WL2VG)

A pilot at my airline just made it back to work after a year of medical leave. He had extensive eye surgery to restore vision in his eye after being struck by a laser. He only looked at it for half a second.

Your friend was probably not struck by a laser like the one for sale on Amazon (5mw strength). Lasers that weak are "safe" in that, short duration exposure will not permantly harm the eye. However, if you search the interwebs (Spyder 3 Krypton Green Laser Pointer | Wicked Lasers (http://www.wickedlasers.com/krypton)) you can find extremely strong lasers the will certainly cause permanent damage. They are expensive though ($250) so kids will probably be playing with a weak laser.