Airline Pilot Forums

I am currently gathering Military heavy PIC time (and TT), but it is coming very slowly (especially with excluding the dreaded "other" time).

Being short on TT for most major job postings, would it be worth it to join a regional for a short period of time to become more competitive in the TT column? Then I could drop trips here and there to keep building heavy PIC military as it comes...

Also, will the 121 experience add justifiable weight to my application?

Just don't want to miss the next hiring opportunity. Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks everyone!

I wouldn't give up a lot of military heavy PIC time to chase regional SIC, but if you can do both it will certainly help pad your total and turbine time. The 121 experience will look good too.

If time is getting hard to come by, I'd take the 121 gig. You can drop ML anytime a good trip opens up in the Reserve/ANG gig.

Both the $$ and the heavy PIC time will make it worth chasing all the Mil trips your can and just fill in the gaps with the 121 thing.

JMHO,

Ball Breaker

If you can do both, by all means do both. You will learn a ton doing 121 time you just don't get in the Mil. You'll become much more familiar with the FARs, and going in and out of major airports will be eyeopening vs. the everything comes to a stop when you land at XX AFB. The more PIC turbine time you can pad the better as well as opposed to Regional SIC. Regional is good, Mil PIC is better, both is BEST!!

Best of luck whatever you do. I hope you catch the beginning of the wave that's coming.

P.S. Start stashing away savings if you haven't for that wonderful "probie" salary:eek:

I am currently gathering Military heavy PIC time (and TT), but it is coming very slowly (especially with excluding the dreaded "other" time).

Being short on TT for most major job postings, would it be worth it to join a regional for a short period of time to become more competitive in the TT column? Then I could drop trips here and there to keep building heavy PIC military as it comes...

Also, will the 121 experience add justifiable weight to my application?

Just don't want to miss the next hiring opportunity. Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks everyone!

Are you currently Active Duty, Reserve, Guard? What kind of time do you currently have? Where do you live...anywhere there is a regional airline base? Lots of info needed to offer a helpful response.

(Also, if you are an aircraft commander, all of your time logged counts towards your total time. Even if you are in the bunk, you are still the AC.)

If you can do both, thats great. You will learn a lot from being an FO at a regional airline. I think it also shows a little interest/initiative in wanting to be an airline pilot. Heck...you might even have fun doing it.

Can't thank you gentlemen enough for your time. Maybe patience is the answer here in my case? I know of many mil guys who bypassed that level-as they should. I sure any HR rep worth their salt can say "yep, he may not have accumulated 6K hours flying between EWR and BUF, but he does have solid international, oceanic, and heavy military PIC experience - we can train him on how to call for push back."

On a serious note, maybe I would go into cardiac arrest (and lose my medical) sharing a less than desirable hotel room with a 23yo kid getting paid 250 wk during training? LoL.

Thanks again!

Ewww, kinda touchy;

Can't thank you gentlemen enough for your time. Maybe patience is the answer here in my case? I know of many mil guys who bypassed that level-as they should. I sure any HR rep worth their salt can say "yep, he may not have accumulated 6K hours flying between EWR and BUF, but he does have solid international, oceanic, and heavy military PIC experience - we can train him on how to call for push back."

On a serious note, maybe I would go into cardiac arrest (and lose my medical) sharing a less than desirable hotel room with a 23yo kid getting paid 250 wk during training? LoL.

Thanks again!

Before too big of a hole gets dug, read here. It takes a bit of drift towards the end;

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/59785-selling-military-exp-civilian-employers.html

But to reiterate a point made. Yep, those on the HR boards know all too well that although one type of experience isn't directly related to another, it can be taught and isn't rocket surgery. The guys that know this best are the ones on the HR/interview panels with military experience. They ALSO know very well that even though a particular candidate may have the SAME crayon set he does, if said candidate thinks his crayons are too sharp and shiny to go color with the rest of the kids, there's AT LEAST another 100 applicants in the stack do know how to share and color with the other kids.

In other words, he can sniff out an arrogant/condescending attitude, regardless of the persons background and experience. As well as determine if the candidate is going to be a good fit for the company's culture and pilot group.

Man oh man, I hate to get into this. You have the ability to this job, or you don't. All that other crap about FMS, going VFR, uncontrolled fields, getting fuel, whatever........

Sadly, it's been proven. You can teach ANY monkey to fly a plane, you can't really teach somebody to NOT be an a-hole.

Not meant to be an arrogant statement whatsoever.

Just a normal comparison of mil progression vs civy progression, that's all. Not which one is better...

I admit that the average mil guy/gal may be a little behind (put your favorite major name here) at training, but they will understand how to fly a heavy airplane.

Isn't that what it is really all about after all (flying a 12.5K + lb. turbine powered airplane at the upper flt levels and at Mach speeds)?

If that wasn't it, then 99% of the folks on here wouldn't be dealing with the self-described "regional hell" they live with to get the above referenced time. Correct?

Seriously, thanks guys for your time!

Isn't that what it is really all about after all (flying a 12.5K + lb. turbine powered airplane at the upper flt levels and at Mach speeds)?

In a competitive environment, sure. The more experience on the resume, the better. But at the end of the day after the candidate meets the mins, it STILL boils down to the candidates personality and how well they can sell themselves in the interview. So no, it's not really JUST about flying a big/heavy/fast airplane high up.

And believe it or not, you'd be surprised at "back in the day" how many pilots were hired at two NOW HIGHLY coveted jobs (ahem, FedEx/Southwest) that had 1000 TPIC, but had NEVER flown a plane at mach speeds in the flight levels. My, how times change and the pendulum swings.

If that wasn't it, then 99% of the folks on here wouldn't be dealing with the self-described "regional hell" they live with to get the above referenced time. Correct?

Seriously, thanks guys for your time!

Well, there's not really that many other viable routes to get to the "brass ring". And yep, we ALL complain about "regional" hell. But I ALSO hear many military pilots complain about "military hell".

Good personality + works well with others = implied. Where do you work anyhow? Have you served or sacrificed for your country?

Military flying is challenging, and therefore it is not for everyone (24+45 duty days, combat zones, etc.). I'm not looking to escape it as I still serve proudly, but I will have to retire well before age 65, so I am out looking to where I would like to go next.

PS-I'm sure there are many who serve their country on this forum and where you work. So please be respectful to their sacrifice and service. That is, please don't refer to it as "hell."

I say that because civilian situations can be walked away from in a moments notice and are based in "profits" only. Civilian situations can be improved if all the employees stand together to make them better. Usually when a military person rants, it is usually because he or she has already sacrificed a lot and is tired-not because of contracts or work rules.

Good personality + works well with others = implied. Where do you work anyhow? Have you served or sacrificed for your country?

And right here is about where I have to stop reading, sorry.

Nope, can't make that claim, never have. But will all due respect, did you even read what I wrote in the thread link I posted? Funny, other military guys got what I was saying, for some reason you have an insecurity that's coming out. It was NEVER about a mil vs. civ thing. It was NEVER about one group being better than the other. It was NEVER about who deserves what. But for some reason, you seem to want to take the thread in that direction. It was about either you can do this job or you can't. You can either play with the other kids or you can't. It's not just about being the "best pilot". Sorry, that's just what I've learned about being on various sides of the airline pilot interview game.

Civilian situations can be improved if all the employees stand together to make them better.

This statement could not be more incorrect. Take a look at the post 9/11 bankruptcies and concessionary contracts, as well as a thing call the RLA, railway labor act.

If you DO by chance read what I wrote in the link, read the section about military guys I've flown with, because I don't think you bothered. Whether it's the ones (the overwhelming majority) that I'll GLADLY buy the beer/lap dance for. As well as the ones (microscopic minority) I'm going to slam-click and can't wait for the trip to be over.

So again, with all due respect I'll just bow out of the thread as there's miscommunication and you're taking it the wrong way.

I wish you best in your endeavors to find employment in the civilian airline pilot market. Have a good night :cool:

I'm about to finish 20 years of that "military hell" and sure didn't take the comment as disrespectful. You go spend 135 days at sea and tell me there is no such thing as "military hell".

No kidding. Living in a conex trailer with another dude in the 'Stan is purgatory. Being corrected for not tucking my PT shirt in while walking to the ****ter at 3am in a foot of slush after a 6 leg 16 hour duty day is as close to hell as I'll ever get. I love serving my country, but sometimes I would rather be making peanuts flying from ewr to buf. Point is, both parties have a good taste of "the suck".

But back to the original ?, I wish I would have gone to a regional early in my career, Before UPT.

You don't need to go to a regional with a bunch of barely-not student pilots. You're better than that. If you need to, go to a good heavy cargo outfit like Atlas, fly a real airplane for a couple of years, and get a 747 type rating. Flying a POS RJ around jerking gear for some bozo who can't get hired at a major, is not necessary.

I am currently a 5 year regional pilot still flying as a First officer and I made $35,000 last year flying 967 hours....I just got sponsored to try for a UPT slot and I would rather do that than fly in the regional's if that tells you anything...

My $.02

never spent a day in a regional, but I did spend 20+ in the military before moving to the airlines. You need to step away from the hookah pipe if you are having any thoughts of going to a regional sweat shop.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Cheers T5

BOGSAT,

What is your background? I take it you're a Guard/Reserve baby in a heavy unit who is a part-timer?

Good personality + works well with others = implied. Where do you work anyhow? Have you served or sacrificed for your country?

... please be respectful to their sacrifice and service.

You should get off of your high horse, and go into "receive mode". You asked for some advice,... now listen.

Its a logical career progression for someone coming out of a CFI job or single pilot 135 job, to go to the right seat of an RJ at a regional. It would only make sense that it would be a step backwards in one's career if they've been flying heavy transport as PIC, and then take a job making $19K a year as a gear slinger. I personally wouldn't be able to stomach going to work.

You should get off of your high horse, and go into "receive mode". You asked for some advice,... now listen.

Exactly what I was thinking.

My military hell is flying T-6's in San Antonio.......wait, nevermind, this is great! No TACC telling me what to do AND no more seat swaps w/ 5 other dudes trying to get 5-on/5-off in the C-17. Weekends off too!

Its a logical career progression for someone coming out of a CFI job or single pilot 135 job, to go to the right seat of an RJ at a regional. It would only make sense that it would be a step backwards in one's career if they've been flying heavy transport as PIC, and then take a job making $19K a year as a gear slinger. I personally wouldn't be able to stomach going to work.

I think the OP is a low-time guard/reserve baby. The question is not whether he should quit mil heavies to fly at a regional, but whether he should do both part time to build hours faster.

It doesn't matter if he's the greatest mil transport pilot ever born, if he only has 450 hours and is flying ten hours/month it's going to be a long road to FDX, SWA, etc. If he's not stuck in a ten year AD obligation and the guard is not making full use of his time the regional job might not be a bad idea.

There's also 91/135, but unless you have 1000TT those jobs are few and far between. The regionals might offer the best opportunity for a low-time pilot.

But like others have said, best to lose any hint of an attitude before you interview. Interviewers are pretty good at screening them out (mil or civ). At SKW we have a variety of ex-mil pilots and some of them do interviews...you might find yourself talking to retired O-6 with 3000 fighter hours.

I think the OP is a low-time guard/reserve baby. The question is not whether he should quit mil heavies to fly at a regional, but whether he should do both part time to build hours faster.

It doesn't matter if he's the greatest mil transport pilot ever born, if he only has 450 hours and is flying ten hours/month it's going to be a long road to FDX, SWA, etc. If he's not stuck in a ten year AD obligation and the guard is not making full use of his time the regional job might not be a bad idea.

There's also 91/135, but unless you have 1000TT those jobs are few and far between. The regionals might offer the best opportunity for a low-time pilot.

But like others have said, best to lose any hint of an attitude before you interview. Interviewers are pretty good at screening them out (mil or civ). At SKW we have a variety of ex-mil pilots and some of them do interviews...you might find yourself talking to retired O-6 with 3000 fighter hours.

The other problem with 91/135 when you have low time is that you just don't fly that much. There are some 135 operators that stay pretty busy, but it's rare to come across anybody outside of freight that will keep you as busy as a regional will. Charter is usually feast or famine, and many 135 ops can make even the worst regional seem like the most pilot friendly workplace ever. When it comes to 91 (corporate), forget about it. Most only fly 200-300 hrs/yr.

Get your TT up, then be choosy.

If a low time Reserve baby, by all means take the RJ job get to 1500 hours. Use mil leave as needed to do mil flying, have some QOL. IF, big IF, there is a hiring boom, he'll be at the head of the line.

GF