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View Full Version : NetJets and Market crash


XDriverX
08-08-2011, 11:04 AM
Unfortunately the market tumble may be just the excuse Hansell needs to finally furlough the 300 he's been threatening for so long. Either that, or he goes to the union and says "Columbus...we gotta problem".
NJA customers will start to scale back on the use of their shares....not only to wait and see what happens with the economy, but also to not draw attention to company finances during this next "recession" thats starting all over again.
Im getting sick and tired of this BS financial mess. My heart goes out to the bottom pilots at NJA....Id be sweating it right now. Feels like 2009 all over again. Good luck NJA brothers and sisters.


Cruz5350
08-08-2011, 12:28 PM
I support pretty much all the fracs in the US for parts needs and our sales have been way down the last couple months. A sure indicator that owners are flying much less these days.

kingairfun
08-09-2011, 11:09 AM
I support pretty much all the fracs in the US for parts needs and our sales have been way down the last couple months. A sure indicator that owners are flying much less these days.

Based on company info from NJA. Flying has remained fairly constant since early Spring... every Friday we get a pseudo update so this coming Fridays flight loads should be a telling story....If it's way down I'd be very worried..... The talking heads seem to think this may be a sell-off due to fear and if so a rebound of some sorts could be expected (and very welcome!)


DWS1
08-09-2011, 12:36 PM
Definitly a precarious situation but the story isn't written yet. I don't think Hansell needs an excuse and what will be will be based on actual business conditions. The ability of management to gain market share via effective business development is another story. As far as the market is concerned, so far there isn't the credit/liquidity crisis that was taking place back in 09' that led to so many contract terminations. Also, I would assume many of the "weaker" owners who were shaken out during that downturn are still on the sidelines. In other words, hopefully we have a more stable client base these days.

As one of the very bottom at NJA, this last weeks events have certainly not helped my morale. But then again, I've been in the trenches for two years now (10 if you count the fact that nothing has improved for me since 9/11) and I'm getting fairly numb to the barrage of uncertainty that has been placed on my livlihood. That being said, I hope after 5 years as a dedicated employee I wouldn't be cast out by way of an excuse. I do know how naive that sounds though. And, unfortunately, I don't have any confidence that the pilot group would stand together and say voluntarily remove themselves from the 18-day schedule in an effort to save some jobs and convey unity in the run up to negotiations. After all, the Union Reps are on the 18-day. But I could be wrong and hope I am if it comes to it.

XDriverX
08-09-2011, 02:09 PM
"... unfortunately, I don't have any confidence that the pilot group would stand together and say voluntarily remove themselves from the 18-day schedule in an effort to save some jobs ..."


DWS, I guarantee that wouldnt happen. The union guys are so hipocritcal it makes me laugh. The big union reps on the board will lie to you, and then 1 month later they will deny ever telling you that lie. I have lost all faith in NJASAP, and if I didnt know better and were quicker to draw unsubstantiated conclusions, Id be positive they were just some goats being herded by the top brass.
In their minds, being on the 18 day doesnt effect how many are furloughed or brought back. 95% of the pilots will not drop the 18 day even if it means saving you your job and house and family. They are too concerned with trying to be 18 again and buying that 75K corvette and the snowmobile for Aspen overnites.
Yeah, Im a little angry 2 years later.

kingairfun
08-09-2011, 04:10 PM
"... unfortunately, I don't have any confidence that the pilot group would stand together and say voluntarily remove themselves from the 18-day schedule in an effort to save some jobs ..."


DWS, I guarantee that wouldnt happen. The union guys are so hipocritcal it makes me laugh. The big union reps on the board will lie to you, and then 1 month later they will deny ever telling you that lie. I have lost all faith in NJASAP, and if I didnt know better and were quicker to draw unsubstantiated conclusions, Id be positive they were just some goats being herded by the top brass.
In their minds, being on the 18 day doesnt effect how many are furloughed or brought back. 95% of the pilots will not drop the 18 day even if it means saving you your job and house and family. They are too concerned with trying to be 18 again and buying that 75K corvette and the snowmobile for Aspen overnites.
Yeah, Im a little angry 2 years later.

Having been at Comair during the start of the end....And having seen what has transpired at NJASAP..I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Union heads have no more idea what is going on than the rest of us... Sure they might be at the table of business updates, but they are being fed the same lines as the rest of the group. Only thing is they are viewed as havinbg solid info, so when they come on the boards giving their opinion on one thing or another it gets viewed as the gospel...

After all this time they have finally admitted they don't have any solid way to track sell-offs. Rely on the FAA to keep them updated on fleet numbers. And what rely ****es me off is one of them fiunally states the real reason we aren't allowed on the msg. board. Then as soon as he is outted, retracts hios statement saying another thing..Then never shows up again....

Still love unions, just think they should stick to what they know...The contract and not trying to help run a business.

UCLAbruins
08-09-2011, 04:31 PM
I don't think Hansell needs an excuse and what will be will be based on actual business conditions. .

Agree 100%, he doesn't need an excuse to furlough more if he wants to. He doesn't need the union's blessing or a 'Go-ahead' from Berkshire.

One thing on our favor, the busy season is only 2 months away, flying should pick up....

January 2012 should be interesting

Undaunted
08-09-2011, 05:49 PM
They would have furloughed again if they needed to. Its not like they are holding on to guys out of the kindness of their hearts.

kingairfun
08-09-2011, 07:59 PM
They would have furloughed again if they needed to. Its not like they are holding on to guys out of the kindness of their hearts.

agree 100%..... And they would have done it close to the April 1st "deadline". They didn't need Sokol still there to make a furlough decision..

The only way a furlough happens is if NJA owner losses continue down a negative path. :confused:Or this economy takes out a whole bunch at once:confused:... I still don't know how the disposals haven't affected staffing, but management must have an idea of when those a/c will be replaced and why they don't need to furlough because of it. Until this economy really strengthens furloughs are always an option, I just don't think NJA is at the point just yet??

I'm hoping there will be a time next year when it is blatently obvious we are out of the woods and can really start thinking about recalls... 2012 will definitely be interesting:)

BD100
08-12-2011, 07:21 AM
Article posted by CNN yesterday "The lower stocks go, the more I buy"


Two examples: A Berkshire subsidiary based in Israel, Iscar, which makes cutting tools for machines, is showing growth, "quarter after quarter," Buffett says, adding that this isn't because of market share gains. "It means that the machines are operating more." Buffett has another company, TTI, which sells tiny electronic parts. "It's like selling jelly beans, but we sell billions of dollars of them and it is up." And there's more too: "NetJets' miles flown by customers are up. Rolex watches -- we are the largest seller of Rolexes in the U.S. -- are up 27% this year," he says.

DWS1
08-12-2011, 02:58 PM
Article posted by CNN yesterday "The lower stocks go, the more I buy"


Two examples: A Berkshire subsidiary based in Israel, Iscar, which makes cutting tools for machines, is showing growth, "quarter after quarter," Buffett says, adding that this isn't because of market share gains. "It means that the machines are operating more." Buffett has another company, TTI, which sells tiny electronic parts. "It's like selling jelly beans, but we sell billions of dollars of them and it is up." And there's more too: "NetJets' miles flown by customers are up. Rolex watches -- we are the largest seller of Rolexes in the U.S. -- are up 27% this year," he says.

Not that I feel out of the woods, and the Union takes every opportunity to remind us of that, but this is just another in a long line of statements that would make another furlough seem as though WB is a hypocrite or at least out of touch. Not that the threat of negative PR would be enough to prevent another furlough but it doesn't hurt. I'll take it.

XDriverX
08-31-2011, 10:53 AM
wow, sure has been quiet for awhile in NJA land. Besides the union basically telling the pilot group "....NJA is doomed under current leadership, get out if you can, this operation is a friggin joke, etc....", I havent seen one piece of news or future thoughts from leadership there. Even the furloughees have had the door slammed on any info pertaining to the company. Anybody have any new info about plans there or what the pilot group is planning on doing with the sinking ship?? Ive given up hope on a recall, but Im just curious as to what the heck is going on!!

kingairfun
08-31-2011, 03:34 PM
wow, sure has been quiet for awhile in NJA land. Besides the union basically telling the pilot group "....NJA is doomed under current leadership, get out if you can, this operation is a friggin joke, etc....", I havent seen one piece of news or future thoughts from leadership there. Even the furloughees have had the door slammed on any info pertaining to the company. Anybody have any new info about plans there or what the pilot group is planning on doing with the sinking ship?? Ive given up hope on a recall, but Im just curious as to what the heck is going on!!

I realized that every third week the Union is claiming doom and gloom over this management regime....Alot of it is probably pretty true.. They (management) sucks... But I'm guessing that sometime over the last few weeks, Union has attempted to advise/persuade management and management denied. Thus the doom and gloom msg. last week.

It wasn't much more than a month ago NJASAP thought a tide was turning AND "the pendullum" had begun to swing in the right direction as of late... In all my years I've never seen a Union give out a msg. one week that seems to give a bit of hope, and the next week everyone might as well resign at first chance. (I'm not begrudging the Union, they are top notch, but overall, they are as useless at the moment as Alpa or any other Union. Not their fault, it's just the way it is) My guess was Luthi is trying to rally the troops for negotiation time.

Recalls are absolutely not going to happen on time or within any of our hopeful time frames. But I don't think for a moment 1/3 of the seniority list is going to dissapear soon. They haven't had any furlough announcements, busy season is coming. and they absolutely could have furloughed by now (per contract). Something is missing in all of this.

We can just hope that our next jobs can allow us not to care what happens at NJA. Thats my hope.:D

727C47
08-31-2011, 06:26 PM
K4 is hiring !!!