Airline Pilot Forums

It seems just like with many other programs - there is a sector of our government who thinks that the option should lie with the individual and another that believes that one size fits all.
The car analogy is right on. Who would stand for your every movement on a daily basis being tracked by the government and records being kept?
If you don't care....then don't sign up, but if you are a private individual/company why shouldn't you have the option, whether it be for personal security reasons or corporate espionage (good business in a competitive environment)?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/business/flight-policy-change-stirs-privacy-outcry.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

USMCFLYR

I'm still trying to figure out how this add's to the transparency of the gov't. Seriously, I think someone has a bone to pick and this is how they got it done.

I'm still trying to figure out how this add's to the transparency of the gov't. Seriously, I think someone has a bone to pick and this is how they got it done.

This doesn't do a thing to add to the transparency of the gov't. But it does make it look like they are actually doing something; going after those evil big business CEO's and the evil rich folk jet settin' around the world. All the while, the gov't still isn't solving the pertinent questions facing our country.

Let me play devil's advocate here.

The courts say I have no expectation of privacy when in public. Therefore red light cameras and police video from squad cars abound and are allowed as evidence in court.

The skies belong to the public, right?

I'm not sure I see the correlation. Passive surveilance is far different from active monitoring of individuals.

Yes I assume my actions are being passively monitored/recorded at the shopping mall, traffic lights etc., however, in no way would you or anyone else be able to decide on a whim that you would like to monitor the activity of any individual walking down the street or driving in their car from point A to point B via some sort of tracking device. In other words, the absence of the BARR program sets presdence that would effectively allow me to pull up your license plate number from a website and show me where you have driven and when. Or maybe I would like to just be able to track all your activities and get a good idea of when your wife takes her evening walk or when you might be out of town. A private aircraft is no diferent than a private RV is no different than a private car is no different than a private bicycle is no different than the shoes on your feet. Monitor 1 and you monitor them all. I'm watching you!

I see your point overtake. In some ways the all seeing internet has made things all too easy.

When I was a kid, my dad took me to the local courthouse to look up some property records. He was starting to negotiate the purchase of a property and naturally wanted to know the present owners purchase price and date. He explained this info was public record for real estate, one just needed to do the leg work of going to the court house, finding the property records and knowing how to look things up. Not many people back then knew this or took the time to research records just for grins.

These days I can find the same info with a few clicks online. I guess the ease of access does allow a sort of stalker mentality.

If you file an IFR flight plan, the world can see the tail number movement record. If you ride an airliner or fly VFR, they can't see you travel.

It will be interesting to see where this case goes.

Fred

I have an toll transponder (EZPass), would it be OK for the state DMV to publish my use of it? The government has our tax records, any objection to this being public? Just because the government collects information, doesn't make it public information. Just sly effort to embarrass private owners.

GF

Don't get me wrong galaxy flyer, I'm not in favor of full disclosure, just interested in the aspects of privacy law as it applies to this.

The govt used face recognition at the superbowl, the toll transponders can be used to create a profile just as shopping and cell records can.

Big companies pay a lot for profile info and the govt can track criminals by cell use and disable cars via onstar.

How much is keeping us safe in a modern age, how much is spying? A very interesting subject for sure.

Let me play devil's advocate here.

The courts say I have no expectation of privacy when in public. Therefore red light cameras and police video from squad cars abound and are allowed as evidence in court.

The skies belong to the public, right?

Hey Fred,

Ever heard of big brother is watching? Well now he is, and he's going to use it against you one day...mark my words. Ever seen those ON STAR commercials, advertising the product as a "safety" device. Did you know the govt, who ever they might be, can shut down your car with one of those, oh yea, they can also track you...no your car's movements. They will use your cell phone to track you, that is if they want to. Way too much intrusion into our lives if you ask me, so lets quit bending over and welcoming it into our lives. These aircraft need to remain blocked.

Again, I am not advocating for or against the BARR program.

I use cash while wearing a burka after riding my bicycle to walmart! :)

I just find the subject interesting.

Having a web site tracking sexual preds is OK.

Having a web site tracking corporate jets is not.

Where does the line get drawn in a free society?

The stupid thing about this is that the government (FAA) can see where everyone is going anyway. BARR allows the public to track private citizens.... This can only be used in negative ways....

Again, I am not advocating for or against the BARR program.

I use cash while wearing a burka after riding my bicycle to walmart! :)

I just find the subject interesting.

Having a web site tracking sexual preds is OK.

Having a web site tracking corporate jets is not.

Where does the line get drawn in a free society?
Well in your instance - one has broken the law and given up certain rights for their punishment.
The other has pursued, and probably achieved some level of success, in the AMERICAN DREAM.
I think the GPS tracker in your shoes is probably a better example if you want to talk about the whys and why nots.
I know you are playing devil's advocate - but would YOU be OK with someone who is not necessarily your close personal friend being able to track YOU on the internet 24/7?

USMCFLYR

Yes USMCFLYR,

My 2 examples are clear opposites, but where does the line go?

I willingly allow a few close personal friends my lat/long using a smartphone app. We all fly and like the chance to catch up over dinner when we can.

OTOH, people I do not know and do not wish to track me do so all the time by the shopping and driving I do in the course of my daily life.

I guess I find it ironic the powerful people are having heartburn about their own privacy!

For the record, I wish we all had greater privacy, including airplane movements. Unfortunately modern life is going the opposite way.

Fred

Let me play devil's advocate here.

The courts say I have no expectation of privacy when in public. Therefore red light cameras and police video from squad cars abound and are allowed as evidence in court.

The skies belong to the public, right?


Yeah sure, and I should be able to look up your licence plate number and see where you're going and where you've been, any time I want. :rolleyes::mad:

Check out "Marine Traffic" on Android (free) or iPhone ($).

And Grumble, get in a wreck or get a major ticket with a car having OnStar, a GPS or even just the vehicle computer and your insurance company will have a full record of your travels. It may affect your coverage, and I'm not talking discounts!