Airline Pilot Forums

I busted some rides during my part 91 training experience. Three to be exact. I have nearly 10 years of flying since and not a single bust in over 7 years under part 121 including my initial ATP and type rating. Nothing else in my background at all. Since these rides are under part 91 and not in my PRIA records they are a permanent part of my records. I have my records and they are all there.


So the questions are:

1. What will a future employer see if they request these records? Will they see all of the records that I received?
2. Is there any way to expunge the pink slips from my records or is there any way that I can have one or more legally removed? If yes whom should I contact?
Thanks
A-V-8

P.S. Additionally I have rehearsed telling the story in front of an interview prep person however I am confident that this has been a disqualifier in 2 interviews.

What will a future employer see if they request these records? Will they see all of the records that I received?[/SIZE][/FONT]
2.

They will not get 8710's or pink slips from the FAA as part of a PRIA request. However... they can do a FOIA request (I've heard some airlines do) and get those records. While some personal records are exempt from FOIA, anything related to aviation is usually fair game since public safety is at stake and flying is a privilege, not a right.


[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Is there any way to expunge the pink slips from my records or is there any way that I can have one or more legally removed? If yes whom should I contact?

No way that I ever heard of, and after colgan the pendulum is not swinging your way any time soon.

I hope you're not seriously considering lying about checkride failures to an airline. There are many ways they can catch you...


-Any CFI or DPE can spot a failed checkride in your logbook (unless you pinked the oral). Remember, they don't have to prove anything, just have the suspicion...unless you're a world class actor/liar your face will give you away when they confront you. End of interview.

-Worse, they do a FOIA a part of your background check (normally after you start ground school). Now you got fired from a 121 job for lying...career over, cuz that is PRIA reportable.

- Even if you get hired, now it's hanging over your head for life...make the slightest mistake (even years later) that gets the FAA involved, and your entire record is going to see the light of day. There is nothing that says your failures are a secret, they just don't happen to be part of PRIA. Actually that is supposed to change I believe (more colgan fallout), so you might as well get used to it.


If you have a clean 121 record a few part 91 busts will hopefully not kill you in the long run. Also look carefully at your interview technique. The busts didn't help, but is there maybe something else you are doing wrong (or not right enough)?

Doesn't pria only go back 5 years? So a busted pc ( not faa checkride) wouldn't show from a company u worked at 10-20 years ago. What if that company is no longer in business ( again more than 5 years) I don't know how colgan changes things but outside 5 year the company would have destroyed all your records (even if they are still around) so a rule enacted this year wouldn't change the fact that those records are erased. Aren't LofC and incidents expulged after 2 and 5 years respectively?

Doesn't pria only go back 5 years? So a busted pc ( not faa checkride) wouldn't show from a company u worked at 10-20 years ago. What if that company is no longer in business ( again more than 5 years) I don't know how colgan changes things but outside 5 year the company would have destroyed all your records (even if they are still around) so a rule enacted this year wouldn't change the fact that those records are erased. Aren't LofC and incidents expulged after 2 and 5 years respectively?

The 5 year limit was cancelled a few months (more colgan fallout). It is now forever.

Some other things might be becoming permanent too.

If an airline went BK, some other agency will appointed to keep the PRIA records.

-Any CFI or DPE can spot a failed checkride in your logbook (unless you pinked the oral). Remember, they don't have to prove anything, just have the from a 121 job for lying...career over, cuz that is PRIA ....

A busted oral can also be detected. A 61.49(a) endorsement is required for any portion of a failed checkride.

Agreed, lying about it would be a HUGE mistake.

Yes I understand that but my question is if the colgan fallout starts this year, a company a person worked for over 5-20 years ago would have purged there records a long time ago. And if the company no longer exist (again over 5- 20 years ago) whatever company they used to maintain there records would have as well (no one works for free any how a bankrupt company isn't going to pay someone indefinitely when they don't have to, they just can't afford it) ...this also goes for faa incidents and warning letters over 5 years ago which were purged due to expulsion. If I'm ready what u are saying right, somehow what has been purged and expunged will somehow reappear. This sound almost impossible.(if its purged its gone ,erased, right?) Has this colgan law passed? When did it go in effect? What is the time frame for implimentaion ? Is it retroactive? That sound costly and very time consuming. I'm just trying to get all this straight and appreciate your help and time.

Yes I understand that but my question is if the colgan fallout starts this year, a company a person worked for over 5-20 years ago would have purged there records a long time ago. And if the company no longer exist (again over 5- 20 years ago) whatever company they used to maintain there records would have as well (no one works for free any how a bankrupt company isn't going to pay someone indefinitely when they don't have to, they just can't afford it) ...this also goes for faa incidents and warning letters over 5 years ago which were purged due to expulsion. If I'm ready what u are saying right, somehow what has been purged and expunged will somehow reappear. This sound almost impossible.(if its purged its gone ,erased, right?) Has this colgan law passed? When did it go in effect? What is the time frame for implimentaion ? Is it retroactive? That sound costly and very time consuming. I'm just trying to get all this straight and appreciate your help and time.

There is no law that says you HAVE to purge your records after five years, and no large company would ever do that voluntarily...they need those records in case they get sued or have an accident. There's no such thing as a "PRIA Record"...it's just a law that says companies have to make certain employee records available to other employers...the records in question include required 121 training records and employee disciplinary records. I would assume that any 121 company keeps it's records forever (if they stay in business).

The custodian for a BK company might have purged them, but they might not. You would have to do some legwork to find out.

There are a variety of "colgan" rules and laws either passed or pending...the rule extending the five year window to forever took effect a couple of months ago.

I have to consent to an FOIA request don't I? Or can the airline do this without my permission?

Not sure about forever Rick, I worked for AE in the early 90s. ( Nashville Eagle ), and 3-4 years ago I contacted them about my old training records etc.... Was told by the training department that they no longer had those records. ymmv.

I have to consent to an FOIA request don't I? Or can the airline do this without my permission?

No consent required. FOIA basically allows anyone to access any government record on request. The only exception are classified defense, intel, and law enforcement info, certain internal documents, and personal info like SSN and medical info. Most pilot records are not protected IRCC.

Thanks Rick for info, I have to agree with herc, airlines are a business and if it cost to maintain and store records that do not need to be kept they will not do it. Plus there is more liability with giving more information than you have to. I guess I depends on the company.

Thanks Rick for info, I have to agree with herc, airlines are a business and if it cost to maintain and store records that do not need to be kept they will not do it. Plus there is more liability with giving more information than you have to. I guess I depends on the company.

They generally will prefer to keep training records so they can track your performance over time and fire you if you slip up too often.

I can 100% guarantee that they will keep disciplinary records for the full term of your employment plus whatever they think the liability window is (3-10 years).

They generally will prefer to keep training records so they can track your performance over time and fire you if you slip up too often.

I can 100% guarantee that they will keep disciplinary records for the full term of your employment plus whatever they think the liability window is (3-10 years).

no doubt.... I am just saying, that if you worked for a company (in my case a 121 carrier that was folded into a larger company) nearly 20 years ago, you should not expect them to still retain your flight and training records. YMMV.