Airline Pilot Forums

Might have an issue coming up in the very near future. Today I was departing in the right seat of a CE560, as a required crew member as per op-spec(135 pax charter). There was a radial that I was trying to get the captain to intercept off the departure end, as per the SID. He flew right through it. There was also a turn we were supposed to make at 4DME/6k feet. He got to 6k feet and started the turn at about 2DME. I was telling him to intercept the radial, and wait for the turn, but he wasn't listening to his "in-experienced FO." We got the number. He told me that the supervisor said he was going to submit the information to whoever they submit it to.


What have others here seen happen to FO's in a situation like this. I have a clean record, and want to keep it that way. I am new at this company, and there are some other practices that I don't agree with. Memorizing checklists and rushing are two ways to get hurt, and thats what I have been told to do so far, so I am thinking of tucking tail and running.

When you say memorizing checklists.....are you saying you do the checklist then never reference it... or you do a "flow" then run the checklist.......the first is bad practice...the later is pretty normal in most operations. Did the pilot brief the SID Or at least review it before departure? AS for how you, the FO, will be taken in this, I don't know.

File an aviation safety report...

ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System (http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html)

When you say memorizing checklists.....are you saying you do the checklist then never reference it... or you do a "flow" then run the checklist.......the first is bad practice...the later is pretty normal in most operations. Did the pilot brief the SID Or at least review it before departure? AS for how you, the FO, will be taken in this, I don't know.


Nope, the first one.

"You need to have the checklist memorized because we don't always have tine for it. You also need to know where my hands are giong because med flights can get very busy."

Nope, the first one.

"You need to have the checklist memorized because we don't always have tine for it. You also need to know where my hands are giong because med flights can get very busy."

Nice. I absolutely HATE idiots like this. They are almost always insecure and horrible pilots.

File an aviation safety report...

ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System (http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html)


Already did it, and printed it out. I know it's not a get out of jail free card, but I hope it can save my but on this one. I am going to try and convince the captain to do the same.

Already did it, and printed it out. I know it's not a get out of jail free card, but I hope it can save my but on this one. I am going to try and convince the captain to do the same.

But honestly, it is. Saved my butt one time. Just make sure you get it certified and get the return reciept. I just thought of this, you can submit them online now can't you?????

But honestly, it is. Saved my butt one time. Just make sure you get it certified and get the return reciept. I just thought of this, you can submit them online now can't you?????

Yes you can. :)

Nope, the first one.

"You need to have the checklist memorized because we don't always have tine for it. You also need to know where my hands are giong because med flights can get very busy."


There is ALWAYS time to run checklists! I used to fly with a guy like this and in a citation as a matter of fact.

He would always rush. Tower would give a 'line up and wait" or a "cleared for take off" and he would just throttle up and go. 75% of the time he would miss ignitions from his "memory"

Not time for a checklist? Get out of that place while you still have your ratings brother!

Exactly......now... knowing the flow for the checklist and having it done... and then being able to "run" the checklist should be accomplished in a manner and speed to ensure compliance. No time for checklist.... BS!!!!!!

Not time for a checklist? Get out of that place while you still have your ratings brother!

Get out of that place while you still have your life!

I wouldn't worry to much. I've seen several FOs in your situation or even worse, where they had caused a deviation. The feds almost always go for the Captain. It will also help you if you have a commercial instead of a ATP, as the FAA usually has more lenience.
I would say worse case scenario you will get FAA counseling over the phone and they will consider it a warning.
Leave the company if you have something else lined up. Get out while you can, these things will repeat themselves especially if you keep flying with this guy.

Where was this if you don't mind me asking?

It will also help you if you have a commercial instead of a ATP, as the FAA usually has more lenience.


I have my ATP.

You should be okay. A friend of mine is going through a similar situation now. He was the pnf when the pf clipped a tfr. The pf was cautioned repeatedly about said tfr by atc and the pnf. The feds are going after the pf as he was the pic and his name on the flightplan. My friend has not had talk to the feds--the other guy has though. Cut and run if you can. Good luck.

These scenarios are very popular WWYD questions at interviews right now. Is there something wrong with your left thumb and index finger where you can't reach over and turn the heading bug?

I wasn't there. But apparently the airplane was being hand flown in an approach to land situation.

These scenarios are very popular WWYD questions at interviews right now. Is there something wrong with your left thumb and index finger where you can't reach over and turn the heading bug?


Yeah, I'm missing my left arm from below the elbow. Seriously dude? I guess you have never been in the situation where you have something bugged, and the PF still does whatever he want's to. A heading bug is nothing more than a refrence.


Would you rather me fight the captain for the controls?

I wasn't there. But apparently the airplane was being hand flown in an approach to land situation.


It was on a SID.

Get out of that place while you still have your life!


If only.............

Yeah, I'm missing my left arm from below the elbow. Seriously dude? I guess you have never been in the situation where you have something bugged, and the PF still does whatever he want's to. A heading bug is nothing more than a refrence.


Would you rather me fight the captain for the controls?

Thais is exactly what we're suggesting here..."I have the controls". Discuss what disaster you averted later.

This sounds just like one of the 135 pilots I used to fly with. He'd be at the controls, I'd be working the radios, and then he'd argue with me about what ATC was telling us to do. He was always sure he knew what was going on and didn't want to listen to me. Luckily nothing too serious happened when I was at that company other than getting yelled at by ATC a couple times.

Also, same thing where checklists were memorized. Not kidding I never saw him reference a checklist for anything, and he didn't want me picking it up either.

I disagree with that point. Good airmanship dictates that one references one's checklist at all times in every phase of flight.

Not time for a checklist? Get out of that place while you still have your ratings brother!

I agree. These fools purposely skipping checklists have no place in the business. They will drag you down with them because they generally have a list of violations which will prevent them from ever moving on. This is sometimes why they are Captains at shady operations (the boss knows they won't/can't leave). It isn't worth it man, start looking elsewhere. I watched a friend of mine get a permanent letter after an accident directly caused by some dipsh*t who "didn't have time" for a tire change.