Airline Pilot Forums

If you are furloughed or volunteer to go on furlough is your 5 year USERRA clock reset when you come back off furlough?

I've been unable to find anything on the ESGR website under Part 1002.

Not to my knowledge - the USERRA 5 year limit is a supposed maximum cumulative military leave at a single employer. However, there are a LOT of exemptions to the 5 year rule. Just about any time spent in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other forward location will be exempt from the 5 year limit.

This thread might be better suited for the military forum. Have you searched there?

Not to my knowledge - the USERRA 5 year limit is a supposed maximum cumulative military leave at a single employer. However, there are a LOT of exemptions to the 5 year rule. Just about any time spent in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other forward location will be exempt from the 5 year limit.

This thread might be better suited for the military forum. Have you searched there?

In addition to time in theater, almost ANY sort of active duty which can reasonably be tied to supporting forces engaged in GWOT/OCO is exempt. This covers almost all active duty except for very specialized ADSW such as volunteering to be a professor at a service academy or something like that.

Additionally all routine drills and AT is exempt, as well as all active duty for initial training (OCS, flight school, squadron fam time, etc) plus any obligation you have to fulfill as a training payback. In the latter case a regional FO can join the navy, fly for ten years to fulfill his winging obligation and still have zero time against the five limit. So he could the go five more years and return to the regional with 15 years of seniority (probably a bad idea that close to mil retirement).


I doubt that there's any way a "regular" guard/reserve guy would have accumulated any time against his five year clock since 9/11.

I am not aware of any "clock reset" while furloughed. Generally under employment law you are considered to still be an employee of sorts. But that would make an interesting legal case...since it's a grey area they might just give it to you.

But I think your energy would be better spent counting up your AD time to determine if any of it even counts against the limit...I'm betting it does not.

Lobo,
No reset. 5 years per employer (plus already mentioned exclusions).
The real challenge is for folks who go on AGR orders.
Also, any time on military orders during furlough (even though reported to your employer) does NOT count against your clock. Only when back active once reemployed off furlough. Remember: USERRA treats all military service absence from our employers as a "furlough"
SD

SD,
Thanks for the words. I'm one of those on AGR orders in AETC. Unless I go down range or do something with ONE my clock is still ticking down on the five year clock.

rickair,
You gave an example about training backpay. I know the days that I'm doing some type of training (formal course i.e) do not count but are you saying that If I incurred a commitment after that training that time does not count? Ex: Attend a course and the AF says you owes us three more years for this course before you can get out.

SD,
Thanks for the words. I'm one of those on AGR orders in AETC. Unless I go down range or do something with ONE my clock is still ticking down on the five year clock.

rickair,
You gave an example about training backpay. I know the days that I'm doing some type of training (formal course i.e) do not count but are you saying that If I incurred a commitment after that training that time does not count? Ex: Attend a course and the AF says you owes us three more years for this course before you can get out.

Yes, AGR is the glaring exception since you are a state employee, not federal AD.

I think (Salty might know for sure) that an incurred obligation for voluntary follow-on training would not be protected. The time spent doing the training itself probably would be protected. See (c)(1) and (c)(3)...

(c) Subsection (a) shall apply to a person who is absent from a position of employment by reason of service in the uniformed services if such person's cumulative period of service in the uniformed services, with respect to the employer relationship for which a person seeks reemployment, does not exceed five years, except that any such period of service shall not include any service--

(1) that is required, beyond five years, to complete an initial period of obligated service;

(2) during which such person was unable to obtain orders releasing such person from a period of service in the uniformed services before the expiration of such five-year period and such inability was through no fault of such person;

(3) performed as required pursuant to section 10147 of title 10, under section 502(a) or 503 of title 32, or to fulfill additional training requirements determined and certified in writing by the Secretary concerned, to be necessary for professional development, or for completion of skill training or retraining; or

(4) performed by a member of a uniformed service who is--

(A) ordered to or retained on active duty under section 688, 12301(a), 12301(g), 12302, 12304, or 12305 of title 10 or under section 331, 332, 359, 360, 367, or 712 of title 14;

(B) ordered to or retained on active duty (other than for training) under any provision of law because of a war or national emergency declared by the President or the Congress. as determined by the Secretary concerned;

(C) ordered to active duty (other than for training) in support, as determined by the Secretary concerned, of an operational mission for which personnel have been ordered to active duty under section 12304 of title 10;

(D) ordered to active duty in support, as determined by the Secretary concerned, of a critical mission or requirement of the uniformed services; or

(E) called into Federal service as a member of the National Guard under chapter 15 of title 10 or under section 12406 of title 10.

Yes, AGR is the glaring exception since you are a state employee, not federal AD.


This is not true in LOBO's case. As an AGR in the Reserve Associate IP Program, he is a member of the Air Force Reserve on Federal Active Duty in Title 10 status.

This is not true in LOBO's case. As an AGR in the Reserve Associate IP Program, he is a member of the Air Force Reserve on Federal Active Duty in Title 10 status.

Good to know.

Lobo,
Your AGR orders while on furlough do not count towards the 5 year clock.
If needed, ask your employer for a possible leave of absence. Let me know if that is a possibility and can discuss considerations.
Remember, the employee has the burden to prove that the USERRA clock was accurate. Some employers allow an extension of the 5 years. (Some by contract and some by request)

Rickair,
AGR orders are USERRA protected at current employer as any Title 10 orders.

Acccepting ARTS employment is no different than changing airline employers. You just started a new USERRA clock and no longer have reemployment rights at the former employer.

Lobo,
Your AGR orders while on furlough do not count towards the 5 year clock.
If needed, ask your employer for a possible leave of absence. Let me know if that is a possibility and can discuss considerations.
Remember, the employee has the burden to prove that the USERRA clock was accurate. Some employers allow an extension of the 5 years. (Some by contract and some by request)

Rickair,
AGR orders are USERRA protected at current employer as any Title 10 orders.

Acccepting ARTS employment is no different than changing airline employers. You just started a new USERRA clock and no longer have reemployment rights at the former employer.

Are all AGR under title 10?

Are all AGR under title 10?

In a nutshell, no. There is a Full Time National Guard Duty (FTNGD) under the Army AGR program. It is listed under the AGR instructions. However, a good review of a scenario is covered in ROA LAW REVIEW 0837 (August 2008).


By instructions (NG and ANG) These Art 32 orders typically are written that meet the definition of USERRA protection and plus up to Title 10. The only gotcha would be that if go on AGR Title 32 from an employer under USERRA protection, then go Title 10 AGR, must return to civilian employer before going back to Title 32 AGR. (Sequence for USERRA protection: Title 32 AGR-Title 10 AGR-Civilian Employer-Title 32 AGR). As this forum is aimed at airline pilots, the experience I've worked is/has been all Title 10 in the ANG.