Airline Pilot Forums

I predict AA will merge with Alaska and JetBlue after exiting bankruptcy within one year. UsAir will either be broken up or merged with United.

I predict AA will merge with Alaska and JetBlue after exiting bankruptcy within one year. UsAir will either be broken up or merged with United.

Doubtful. JetBlue, Maybe. AA will have to pry Alaska from Delta's cold, dead fingers.

IMHO, of course.

DAL would go into orbit if AA tried to buy/merge with Alaska. I think AS will remain what they do today, a codeshare ***** (and I mean that in a good way). They have a niche area of operation that can really only sustain one dominant carrier. The codeshares are the way to maximize and secure their dominance.

AA/JB sounds good in terms of AA regaining BOS and the Caribbean as well as a strong position in JFK to rival DAL. The biggest hurdle would be the DOT/DOJ and general public perception of AA taking a 'low fare carrier' out of the market and reducing the options for the traveling public when it comes to cheap airfare.

My opinion, AA/US merge which would take another legacy off the map and strengthen the East Coast for AA. Also expect some sort of expanded codeshare opportunity with Alaska and JB.

Ak and hawiian. JB and Southwest. my un educated guess

No JB Soutwest. Wrong fleet type for Southwest. When they were going after Frontier, it was for Denver, and because Frontier looked like it might be a deal. JB is doing to well to be a deal for anyone, and Southwest doesn't want 2 more aircraft types. Plus, it will take a while to get over the growing pains from the AirTran merger.

No JB Soutwest. Wrong fleet type for Southwest. When they were going after Frontier, it was for Denver, and because Frontier looked like it might be a deal. JB is doing to well to be a deal for anyone, and Southwest doesn't want 2 more aircraft types. Plus, it will take a while to get over the growing pains from the AirTran merger.

SWA is the biggest domestic carrier in the world that has a grossly insufficient presence in the biggest domestic market in the world. The only way SWA can get the NYC presence they need to gain sufficient marketshare is to buy DL (nope) buy AA (nope) buy JB (very, very likely) or wait for a fragmentation and hope to be the highest bidder for almost all of it. That's a gamble they won't take IMHO. Odds are SWA will jump on JB. Hard.

Within 6 months of exiting BK......AA will see a quick merger with Emirates and Quantas. The hubs of South Pacific and Middle East are real Gold Mines!!! My preference bid would be 737 FO Abu Dhabi.

IMHO of course

AA will see a quick merger with Emirates and Quantas.

Against the law, isn't it?

Against the law, isn't it?


I believe it's a joke, IMHO:D

SWA is the biggest domestic carrier in the world that has a grossly insufficient presence in the biggest domestic market in the world. The only way SWA can get the NYC presence they need to gain sufficient marketshare is to buy DL (nope) buy AA (nope) buy JB (very, very likely) or wait for a fragmentation and hope to be the highest bidder for almost all of it. That's a gamble they won't take IMHO. Odds are SWA will jump on JB. Hard.

Gloopy, while I respect your opinion, I just don't see it happening. JetBlue is now too big and too successful for anybody to "acquire". That means any future deal is a merger. It takes two willing parties to merge, and B6 has no interest in merging with SWA. It also means big, big financial incentives and premium price to make it happen. AMR can't afford it, and SWA doesn't want to pay it. They want a bargain, and they like to beat up the weak while they are down. SWA would actually have to be play nice and negotiate a mutually agreed upon merger to get B6, oh by the way that includes the pilots. Not the game they like to play.

Within 6 months of exiting BK......AA will see a quick merger with Emirates and Quantas. The hubs of South Pacific and Middle East are real Gold Mines!!! My preference bid would be 737 FO Abu Dhabi.


You mean Austrailia's national airline QANTAS? Queensland And Northern Territories Aerial Service...no 'u'. And EK has a hub in Dubai (DXB), not Abu Dhabi (AUH); their smallest a/c is an Airbus 330.

I believe it's a joke, IMHO:D

Everything with AMR these days is a joke. A sad joke.

Gloopy, while I respect your opinion, I just don't see it happening. JetBlue is now too big and too successful for anybody to "acquire". That means any future deal is a merger. It takes two willing parties to merge, and B6 has no interest in merging with SWA. It also means big, big financial incentives and premium price to make it happen. AMR can't afford it, and SWA doesn't want to pay it. They want a bargain, and they like to beat up the weak while they are down. SWA would actually have to be play nice and negotiate a mutually agreed upon merger to get B6, oh by the way that includes the pilots. Not the game they like to play.

So you're saying the JB execs would say "no deal" until a pilot seniority list (and all the other lists, FA, etc) was agreed upon? And that they would scuttle the deal regardless of how good it would be for the shareholders or themselves unless and until the employees were taken care of according to each group's wishes, giving the JB pilots the ability to stop it completely if they didn't like the terms of the list SWA was proposing?

So you're saying the JB execs would say "no deal" until a pilot seniority list (and all the other lists, FA, etc) was agreed upon? And that they would scuttle the deal regardless of how good it would be for the shareholders or themselves unless and until the employees were taken care of according to each group's wishes, giving the JB pilots the ability to stop it completely if they didn't like the terms of the list SWA was proposing?

You have to understand there are a few Jet Blue pilots here that are deathly afraid of a merger with ANYONE due to pilot seniority issues. Aren't these pilots on renewable temporary contracts and additionally are unrepresented by any union subject to the RLA ?

As such, they are very vulnerable should JB management act in the interests of themselves and others and NOT in the primary interests of the pilots (or other employee's for that matter) just like the rest of airline industry management. It's unthinkable to them (actually horrifying) that a merger/acquisition could ever happen and many believe (incorrectly IMO) that JB is and will forever be immune to consolidation.

It's simply a "happy place" one MUST go to if you work for Jet Blue, because the other possibilities are just too frightening. It's commonly referred to as "denial".

Ak and hawiian. JB and Southwest. my un educated guess


Neither makes any sense... but thanks for playing. Although SW would have ZERO problems stapling the JB guys.

de le te d

You have to understand there are a few Jet Blue pilots here that are deathly afraid of a merger with ANYONE due to pilot seniority issues. Aren't these pilots on renewable temporary contracts and additionally are unrepresented by any union subject to the RLA ?

As such, they are very vulnerable should JB management act in the interests of themselves and others and NOT in the primary interests of the pilots (or other employee's for that matter) just like the rest of airline industry management. It's unthinkable to them (actually horrifying) that a merger/acquisition could ever happen and many believe (incorrectly IMO) that JB is and will forever be immune to consolidation.

It's simply a "happy place" one MUST go to if you work for Jet Blue, because the other possibilities are just too frightening. It's commonly referred to as "denial".

I think that one thing JB really has going for it is the fact that New Yorkers LOVE JetBlue. SWA would trash your product, and I don't think that would be well received there. That being said though, money is money, and executives are all about making as much as they can...

Eaglefly doesn't work for B6. Over 860 of us aren't living in denial, we are very cognizant of the threat to our livelihoods posed by the PEA structure in a t/e. We are not on temporary contracts, however; they renew in perpetuity unless terminated for just cause. Still not good enough..

You mean Austrailia's national airline QANTAS? Queensland And Northern Territories Aerial Service...no 'u'. And EK has a hub in Dubai (DXB), not Abu Dhabi (AUH); their smallest a/c is an Airbus 330.

My bad on the mis-spelling of Qantas...I know what it stands for!
You don't think they have a Abu Dhabi crew base? That would be my choice! I'm not a big fan of Dubai!

It's all sarcasm!

Eaglefly doesn't work for B6.

Correct.

Over 860 of us aren't living in denial, we are very cognizant of the threat to our livelihoods posed by the PEA structure in a t/e. We are not on temporary contracts, however; they renew in perpetuity unless terminated for just cause. Still not good enough..

Never said the entire B6 pilot group was in denial, I said a FEW HERE. As for you employment terms, you say they are "not temporary", yet, "RENEW in perpituity" ?

Ummm...........ok, if you say so. :cool:

So you're saying the JB execs would say "no deal" until a pilot seniority list (and all the other lists, FA, etc) was agreed upon? And that they would scuttle the deal regardless of how good it would be for the shareholders or themselves unless and until the employees were taken care of according to each group's wishes, giving the JB pilots the ability to stop it completely if they didn't like the terms of the list SWA was proposing?

EagleFly I won't even respond to, because his post doesn't deserve an educated response. I never said anything about Seniority List Integration. What I did say is JetBlue is now too big and too successful to be acquired. B6 has an enterprise value of roughly 3.2Billion, with a Market Cap of 1.4Billion and roughly 1.2Billion in cash. SWA bought AirTran for something like 1.4Billion. They couldn't afford to "Acquire" JetBlue unless they used all of their roughly 3.2Billion in cash. That means they would have to "merge" and both parties have to play nice in a merger. All I am saying is that is not the type of corporate transaction SWA likes to make. They like a bargain, where they pull all the strings. I never said B6 wouldn't be involved in future consolidation, I simply said SWA is most likely not going to happen, and AMR currently can't afford it.

Oh, and by the way, since you all brought it up, not me...I do think B6 management would fight for their employees if a transaction did occur. I know this is foreign to most, but some employees actually have some faith in some management teams. That is my opinion, and my opinion only...many at B6 disagree with me, but others actually may agree.

Correct.



Never said the entire B6 pilot group was in denial, I said a FEW HERE. As for you employment terms, you say they are "not temporary", yet, "RENEW in perpituity" ?

Ummm...........ok, if you say so. :cool:

I really don't want to get into a johnson-measuring contest here; if you research my posts I think you'll find a healthy skepticism about the management at JetBlue. For example, with a stock price languishing in the low four-dollar range I am convinced the board would burn the "caring" value in a heartbeat if tendered an offer that seriously betters that price: in fact they have a required fiduciary responsibility to do so.

You actually said "the happy place" was where one MUST go to be a JetBlue pilot, which is what I'm disputing. I assume the worst would happen for us in a T/E event, but I definitely would go in swinging against any pilot group that wishes to classify me as a temporary employee. (And I would do so with my lawyer alone, with my miniscule share of our "merger fund" in all likelihood, but I digress). In 2008, the language of our PEAs was updated as follows:
this Agreement will automatically renew for an additional five (5) year period; provided, however, the Airline may only terminate this Agreement during the Renewal Window pursuant to Paragraph 14 (DISCHARGE) herein. This Agreement will automatically terminate upon the Pilot’s resignation or once the Pilot has reached mandatory retirement age.

The listed paragraph has standard boilerplate language limiting what the company may classify as a fireable offense.

At any rate, I'd far rather have a CBA vs. an individual agreement. Just trying to get the best information out there.

My bad on the mis-spelling of Qantas...I know what it stands for!

It's all sarcasm!

Just razzin' ya, no problem. Hey, what's a Legacy anyway? Is that when you pledge a fraternity and get in automatically because you had a family member there before?;)

EagleFly I won't even respond to, because his post doesn't deserve an educated response. I never said anything about Seniority List Integration. What I did say is JetBlue is now too big and too successful to be acquired. B6 has an enterprise value of roughly 3.2Billion, with a Market Cap of 1.4Billion and roughly 1.2Billion in cash. SWA bought AirTran for something like 1.4Billion. They couldn't afford to "Acquire" JetBlue unless they used all of their roughly 3.2Billion in cash. That means they would have to "merge" and both parties have to play nice in a merger. All I am saying is that is not the type of corporate transaction SWA likes to make. They like a bargain, where they pull all the strings. I never said B6 wouldn't be involved in future consolidation, I simply said SWA is most likely not going to happen, and AMR currently can't afford it.

Oh, and by the way, since you all brought it up, not me...I do think B6 management would fight for their employees if a transaction did occur. I know this is foreign to most, but some employees actually have some faith in some management teams. That is my opinion, and my opinion only...many at B6 disagree with me, but others actually may agree.

With a market cap of 1.4 Bill, the pilots of DAL/NWA could have sold the shares they got in the NWA/DAL merger and had more than enough to buy the entirety of JB at that price. (obviously the price would have gone up if a buyout attempt happened).

Just saying that if you think $1.2 billion in cash and $1.4 billion in market cap is safe, you are not familiar with how large corporate transactions work. Ask any NWA employee about Al Checci and the leveraged buy-out that happened there.

The acquirer can say to the shareholders: "I'll give you your 1.4 billion PLUS another 40% if you agree to the transaction." so the shareholders split $1.96 billion. You do this by giving them the cash from the acquired operation plus a little bit of stock (from the acquiring company) to make up the $1.96 billion.

It costs the acquirer very little, since the enterprise value is above the cash price, and you have cash in the acquiring operation to fund the ongoing operations (no actual outlay if the operation is cash flow positive.)

If JB is as profitable as you say and is valued like that, they most definitely are a takeover target. Let's be honest, the shareholders as a whole probably don't care what happens as long as they get a return on their money.

Just razzin' ya, no problem. Hey, what's a Legacy anyway? Is that when you pledge a fraternity and get in automatically because you had a family member there before?;)

Thank you sir...may I have another!!!
Kevin Bacon - Fraternity Paddle - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ)

I predict AA will merge with Alaska and JetBlue after exiting bankruptcy within one year. UsAir will either be broken up or merged with United.

AMR would enjoy US Air's 2.5 billion in unrestricted cash.

MCfly... in "reality" there is NO difference in a merger or acquisition... One company buys another, period. only exception is a "hostile take over".
delta/NW US/piedmont AW/US CO/UAL AA/TWA DL/WE
All the friggin same....
one company buts another with boards approval.....