Airline Pilot Forums

Preliminary report is out.

http://www.transport.gov.pl/files/0/30680/20111400RWenglish.pdf

After takeoff, a small leak in the hydraulic system resulted in a pressure drop. The crew continued to Warsaw and performed the QRH but was unable to lower the gear. Preliminary reports indicate that the crew forgot to check the circuit breaker panel C4248 Landing Gear - Altn Ext Motor on F6 position. This circuit breaker popped unknowingly to the crew. A test was later carried out with the alternate landing gear extension system and found to be working normally. O boy, I feel sorry for the crew. When you think you thought of everything...

Preliminary reports indicate that the crew forgot to check the circuit breaker panel C4248 Landing Gear - Altn Ext Motor on F6 position. This circuit breaker popped unknowingly to the crew. A test was later carried out with the alternate landing gear extension system and found to be working normally. O boy, I feel sorry for the crew. When you think you thought of everything...

Why should they have checked the CB panel? I've been flying a 767-300ER for the last several years and until this incident, nowhere in our QRH does it have you check the CB panel. The onus should be on their MX coordinator for not having them look at the CB panel when they troubleshot the ALTN gear extension problem.

Why should they have checked the CB panel? I've been flying a 767-300ER for the last several years and until this incident, nowhere in our QRH does it have you check the CB panel. The onus should be on their MX coordinator for not having them look at the CB panel when they troubleshot the ALTN gear extension problem.

You have got to be kidding. :eek:

You need a QRH to exercise common sense and basic systems knowledge? Awareness of CB status in the event of any aircraft malfunction is basic procedure for any professional pilot. Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

This is kind of random but I think it's interesting that the Captain has around 16,000 hours TT with 14,000 PIC

The FO has around 9500 hours and only 835 PIC

Seems like that poor guy's been SIC most of his life....

You have got to be kidding. :eek:

You need a QRH to exercise common sense and basic systems knowledge? Awareness of CB status in the event of any aircraft malfunction is basic procedure for any professional pilot. Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

Just curious, does your company permit you to reset a CB without being directed to by the QRH or MX personnel? Mine specifically prohibits it.

If I couldn't get the gear down, yeah, I'd reset a breaker or two against the GOM's guidelines.

Just curious, does your company permit you to reset a CB without being directed to by the QRH or MX personnel? Mine specifically prohibits it.

FlyJSH,
I think we're on the same page. Captain's emergency authority always allows it. There are some that are specifically prohibited (fuel pumps come to mind). Other than that, if the Captain determines the affected equipment is necessary, CBs can be reset. If a CB reset was the difference between a gear up landing and a normal landing, I think I'd exercise my Captain's authority.

A prudent Captain would discuss such action with MX and there are times in the QRH when it either directs or prohibits CB reset.

The guy who I responded to basically said he wasn't going to even CHECK the CBs without being directed to do so by the QRH. My point was knowing the status of your CBs in the event of a malfunction is your job as a professional, regardless of what the QRH says. Whether you choose to reset them is another issue altogether.

AD

So how many Pollocks does it take to lower the landing gear in a 767?

...too soon?

FlyJSH,
I think we're on the same page. Captain's emergency authority always allows it. There are some that are specifically prohibited (fuel pumps come to mind). Other than that, if the Captain determines the affected equipment is necessary, CBs can be reset. If a CB reset was the difference between a gear up landing and a normal landing, I think I'd exercise my Captain's authority.

A prudent Captain would discuss such action with MX and there are times in the QRH when it either directs or prohibits CB reset.

The guy who I responded to basically said he wasn't going to even CHECK the CBs without being directed to do so by the QRH. My point was knowing the status of your CBs in the event of a malfunction is your job as a professional, regardless of what the QRH says. Whether you choose to reset them is another issue altogether.

AD

I think we are on the same page. His decision and actions may have been different from mine, but he did manage to get his pax off safely.

My post was in response to what I believed to be a "that guy was an idiot" post.

His actions may not have been the best, but we, as fellow pilots, should recognize a safe outcome, even if it isn't the best. We all know the reporters are going to jump on everything we say.

Yes, we should discuss the incident in a third party way to improve safety for all. But let us not slam a fellow pilot who, through whatever means, brought his pax safely back to Earth

FlyJSH,
I made no attempt to slam the LOT crew.
Usually when I quote a previous post directly in my response, that's who I'm responding to. If you look at my first post in this thread, I am responding to Justdoinmyjob because he indicated he wouldn't even bother to check his CBs unless the QRH directed him to do so.

I have no idea what happened on the flight deck of the LOT aircraft. Maybe they tried to reset the CB but it popped again or perhaps they overlooked it. The investigators will sort that out.

Most of us have heard some version of "bulb, breaker, book" or the 3 C's (notify Captain, check CBs, use Checklist). My only "slam" was directed toward someone with a very unusual (and potentially problematic) attitude toward checking his CB status.