Airline Pilot Forums

I've decided to go through ATP flight school and do there fast track program.
Does anyone have any advice about the training or what to expect when I start the program?

Thanks Tyler.

I've decided to go through ATP flight school and do there fast track program.
Does anyone have any advice about the training or what to expect when I start the program?

Thanks Tyler.

I'd look at the costs for the program, and then look at the pay scales. The return on investment for such a large outlay isn't there.

Is this flame bait or a serious question?

+1

$50k and that doesn't include pvt (probably another $10k). Starting cfi pay is under $20k a year. Once you get a 1000 hours, regional pay starts at $23k a year. Right now regionals are easily 5+ years for an upgrade to captain. That only pays $70k, so plan on paying those loans off for the next 20 years. Hope you don't have kids or a house payment. Good luck!

to add onto kent, it looks like a few regionals are about to have more furloughs

I have no kids and not married, I have my private license, what am I supposed to do if being an airline pilot has been my dream all my life?

I'd look at the costs for the program, and then look at the pay scales. The return on investment for such a large outlay isn't there.

Is this flame bait or a serious question?


To add to Mason32's comment
Don't just look at the cost of the program. Unless you are an uber pilot you are probably going to occur additional training costs as you go over the hour requirements the zero-to-hero programs quote you.
As an example the FAA part 61 PPL requires only 40 hours of flight time before you can take your check ride, however the national average before students are capable to take the check ride is closer to 70 hours. As such the cost of the programs can soar beyond what the student was expecting.
Certainly these overages can be mitigated by going to a professional flight school that utilizes a well thought out curriculum and the level the student engages in his/her own training.

Ok,
If you haven't already given up then great! First lesson as a commercial pilot. Don't listen to half the stuff you hear on aviation forums. Unless you want the most terrible outlook on aviation you can get. Flying is still a fantastic career and you still get to do what other people in they're hum drum lives dream about. Go to ATP or check out Tailwheels etc in FL. They have an accelerated program that is cheaper and is a better atmosphere. Pm me for more info. I went to ATP. It is what you make of it. Not every instructor is good. Nor is every one bad. Talk to the guys and stick with the ones that work for you. Develop a strict self study program for the ground stuff. Ground school was pretty weak when I went through. All in all the program works. But really check out tailwheels etc too. And most importantly DON'T GIVE UP. First year pay blah blah, treated badly blah blah. Your gonna hear it all. If you don't give it your all you'll always wonder what if...

I'm flying a 747 all over the World, pretty good huh? Not really!
Gone 21 days a month, I'm married, no fun.
I'm making less $ than I did 15 years ago.
I've been laid off 4 times in ten years.
I've moved 7 times in ten years.
I'm on three seniority list, bottom of all three, no job security.
Every body I know has been divorced.
Many have declared bankruptcy.

It's a rough unstable life. Go do something you enjoy. Create a business and be in control of your life.

One question that hasn't been asked. Why do you think you need to go to a school that is a fast tracked system?

I went to ATP. Worked for me. Yeah it's rough and you have to work hard but you get through it quick and on your way to doing what you want to do. It's the first step to being broke for a while but at some point you'll get though it. Most people it takes years to get though everything. You'll do it in 90 days with good multi time. No one who I went through the program with went over the flight time and had to pay extra. People did wash out but they were also scared of power on stalls. Some instructors do suck but most were good. Just don't expect someone to hold your hand. You have to put in the time.

I went to ATP. Worked for me. Yeah it's rough and you have to work hard but you get through it quick and on your way to doing what you want to do. It's the first step to being broke for a while but at some point you'll get though it. Most people it takes years to get though everything. You'll do it in 90 days with good multi time. No one who I went through the program with went over the flight time and had to pay extra. People did wash out but they were also scared of power on stalls. Some instructors do suck but most were good. Just don't expect someone to hold your hand. You have to put in the time.

This is what people are trying to tell you. You dont have to be broke for a while (LONG TIME with a 60K loan at nearly 1000/month payments). Work and pay as you go to finish you ratings. If you work hard you can finish the same ratings in a year or so and still get that coveted regional job.

Flying is about being a pilot...not going from zero to RJ in 120 days. Take your time, see things, enjoy aviation.

In my experience I've seen ATP guys be hired pretty quick. Lots of regionals are lowering their minimum total time but most of them are holding strong on the multi requirement. The only guys I've met that have 500TT but over 100 multi are former ATP students.

It's expensive and everyone seems to be flaming you for that, but it's probably the best fast track to the regionals is that's your goal. I didn't go to ATP and I ended up with over 1,000 total before I was able to build 100 multi. At ATP you'll have 100 multi at around 300 total. Regionals will eat that up if the hiring continues.

I know an ATP student who had his first flight ever after I already had my MEI and he made it to the airlines 6 months before more.

This is the Economics teacher coming out., and I am not going to knock you on selecting ATP as I am looking at enrolling in their CFI courses. However, I do have questions. Have you thought about doing your instrument and Commercial Single through a local FBO? It would save money in the long run, and coming out relatively debt free would be great given what regionals pay. What about going to college and flying on the side? I have been around long enough to see the cycles, and I would hope you have another career to fall back on. No matter what route you select, good luck.
Just my $.02.

In my experience I've seen ATP guys be hired pretty quick. Lots of regionals are lowering their minimum total time but most of them are holding strong on the multi requirement. The only guys I've met that have 500TT but over 100 multi are former ATP students.

It's expensive and everyone seems to be flaming you for that, but it's probably the best fast track to the regionals is that's your goal. I didn't go to ATP and I ended up with over 1,000 total before I was able to build 100 multi. At ATP you'll have 100 multi at around 300 total. Regionals will eat that up if the hiring continues.

I know an ATP student who had his first flight ever after I already had my MEI and he made it to the airlines 6 months before more.

Last time I checked some regional airlines were hiring with only 50 hrs of multi-engine time.
That said, why would you want to pay three times as much flying multi-engines from the get go, compared to getting your single engine ratings at a mom an pop. You'll have more than enough money left over to get your multi engine time building in and still come out ahead. I'm not sure what ATP is charging per hour anymore, but we charge 195/hr wet for our multi if that gives you any indication of the price differences.

It has taken me almost two years to get my private license, just because I have to save up my money then go for a few days then save up for a few more months then go for a few days. Doing that way has been hard for me, I want to be a pilot and want to fly jets. Ive talked with several people who work for the regionals and delta, I asked them what I should do. They tell me ATP and the FBO side, but Im tired of trying to grind it out for 5 months just to go for fly for three days. My plan is ATP and I plan to stick with them, but advice on training would be awesome:)

Jets are boring! Fly an EMB-120.

As for advice:

1: always be more prepared than your instructor
2: get ALL of your writtens out of the way. It will be hard and will make you clinically insane, but do it.
3: chair fly every maneuver. I am sure you can sit in a plane or sim not spending any money touching switches and levers. Know each memory item and procedure cold.
4: trust but verify. Your CFI is not always right. Do not make them look stupid but respectfully disagree and find the correct answer together.
5: partying..don't. You are there to learn and get done as quick as possible. This will not be a FL vacation.
6: In contrast..don't be a hermit, have an avenue to blow off some steam.
7: strive for perfection. "I was only 20 feet off on my steep turn." Don't let that be acceptable. You may never achieve perfection but it doesn't mean you don't always try.

The flip side to saving money and going to ATP is getting your ratings at a more expensive FBO. The FBO may be more expensive but consider that they may pay you much more as an instructor than ATP would.

Just a thought!

I went to ATP. Worked for me. Yeah it's rough and you have to work hard but you get through it quick and on your way to doing what you want to do. It's the first step to being broke for a while but at some point you'll get though it. Most people it takes years to get though everything. You'll do it in 90 days with good multi time. No one who I went through the program with went over the flight time and had to pay extra. People did wash out but they were also scared of power on stalls. Some instructors do suck but most were good. Just don't expect someone to hold your hand. You have to put in the time.

Well said. It is the quickest route (not the cheapest) to becoming interview qualified, good luck.

In addition to USMC-sgt's suggestions

Strive to fly 5 days a week, but don't over do it. When I find my students are hitting a learning plateau (these are inevitable) I suggest that they take a few days off from flying. There is no point trying to fly extra lessons when you're "just not getting it". The brain needs time to reflect and sort things out sometimes, usually a few days off from flying helps the sorting process. It's not unlike working out, where your muscles are actually gaining strength/mass after the workout during the recuperation phase.

Also, during instrument training, purchasing a flight sim for home use is an excellent tool to improve your instrument scan and to practice instrument procedures. However, don't get ahead of what your instructor is teaching you. It can be very frustrating for an instructor to unteach the bad habits you may pick up by trying to "teach" yourself.

Thanks for the help :)

not sure why everybody is so negative about this and that about the pilot career, i honestly don't care how much i make, as long as i am flying, i graduated college 8 years ago and have did the corporate(non-flying) waited tables, bartended....etc and nothing makes me happier than flying, i have a wet commercial and about to get my CFI's and couldn't be happier, i went to another flight school that offered flight training in multi's in a somewhat accelerated environment, i was completely happy with my training and wouldn suggest it, and significantly cheper than ATP, PM me if you want more info

sorry for the typos....sunday funday haha a little buzzed

...i honestly don't care how much i make, as long as i am flying...
Hopefully it's the hangover talking...because attitudes like this bring the entire career down.

Pay-for-training, taking FO jobs for just the flight time, $20/hr FOs at part 121 carriers - all branched in one way or another from that statement.

I went to ATP over three years ago for the career program, and I thought it was a good product, but they can be a difficult company to work with. They were professional, but they aren't going to treat you like a special customer. As long as you can handle the pace, you will get exactly what you pay for--all of your ratings in a short period of time.

I'm going back this week to do my ATP. I know I could probably save a little money going somewhere else, but I don't have much time since I have a full-time job. I know that if I go to them I will have my ATP in two days. Also, their instructors have sent many students through the same checkride, so they will definitely be able to tell me what to expect and make sure I'm prepared.

Hopefully it's the hangover talking...because attitudes like this bring the entire career down.

Pay-for-training, taking FO jobs for just the flight time, $20/hr FOs at part 121 carriers - all branched in one way or another from that statement.

And they just keep coming outta the woodwork...

I think I am about to be F'ed from Pinnacolaba and taking another regional job that pays LESS ($26.70 first year) bothers me. It amazes me skywest, compass, and xjt only pay $22-23! :mad:

Do it, bite the bullet and it will pay off in the future. Don't worry about the starting pay at regionals, that's why it's called "starting". If you want big money, you'll have to go overseas.

Don't listen to 1/2 the guys on here. Most of them are just ****ed off. Go for it. This is still a great career and if you are young you'll be fine. It will take you 5-7 years to make a decent salary but by then you'll be doing what you love and it's not a difficult job. Plan for the future and don't spend everything you make. If I were you and you have your heart set on this, go to ATP and get it done. You'll pay $50000 but you could have a paying regional job in 6 months from now

Okay Thanks for the advice, I love flying and have always to be an airline pilot. What do you think the hiring is going to be looking like in the next year or two?

I've decided to go through ATP flight school and do there fast track program.
Does anyone have any advice about the training or what to expect when I start the program?

Thanks Tyler.
If you have read all the info you can on the industry and decided you want to get into it, ATP is a pretty good place to go. I instructed there for a year and have been at a regional for 3 yrs now. PM me if you want any info.

If you have read all the info you can on the industry and decided you want to get into it, ATP is a pretty good place to go. I instructed there for a year and have been at a regional for 3 yrs now. PM me if you want any info.

Could you please shed some light? I can't seem to access the PM function yet as I just recently joined the forums.

Cheers

Could you please shed some light? I can't seem to access the PM function yet as I just recently joined the forums.

Cheers
oh, you can email me with any question. crj4life@ymail.com

Okay Thanks for the advice, I love flying and have always to be an airline pilot. What do you think the hiring is going to be looking like in the next year or two?

Most of the guys you see who are positive about this career on here are still new or are Military/Corporate, etc. I'm halfway through my 20's and have been furloughed twice already. Absolutely make sure you have a backup plan/career/degree when the rug gets pulled out from under you. I would advise you do something else career wise, but you may have to get in and experience it before you realize what I'm saying.

As far as long term hiring goes (next 2 years), I think you'll see some regional hiring, not anywhere close like it was in '07, but if you have a thousand or so hours and 100ME, there should be a few jobs around.

I think major hiring will be very stagnant over the next year or two. Lots of consolidation going on, American/United still have thousands out of furlough. The economy is not recovering very quickly so I think you're going to see some majors "furlough from the top" as retirements kick in, which basically means absorbing the attrition as it comes. Best case from what I can see is basically no measurable hiring at the majors for the next 1-3 years, maybe more.

Hopefully it's the hangover talking...because attitudes like this bring the entire career down.

Pay-for-training, taking FO jobs for just the flight time, $20/hr FOs at part 121 carriers - all branched in one way or another from that statement.

Dido!

This life will never change for the better if we have these types of attitudes around.

To the original poster doing a fast track is not doing you any favors. The GA world has a lot of fun flying if you search it out and take the time to enjoy it, plus it makes you a much more well rounded pilot. I can say for certain my Ga flying was more fun and rewarding than any flying I have done since going to the airlines.

No I was not a CFI, I built my time towing gliders in tailwheels and doing ferry trips all across North america. In addition I made better money than I do now and was able to fly a ton of different airplanes. If I did not need a job with paid health insurance I would probably still be doing the GA gigs.

not sure why everybody is so negative about this and that about the pilot career, i honestly don't care how much i make, as long as i am flying, i graduated college 8 years ago and have did the corporate(non-flying) waited tables, bartended....etc and nothing makes me happier than flying, i have a wet commercial and about to get my CFI's and couldn't be happier, i went to another flight school that offered flight training in multi's in a somewhat accelerated environment, i was completely happy with my training and wouldn suggest it, and significantly cheper than ATP, PM me if you want more info

You and I are very similar. I also do not care what I fly as long as I am making good money......oh, wait.

I did catch ATP not being completely honest a few times. They did not deliver on a promise. Don't agree to pay them a deposit of any kind. Watch out.

So here how it goes at ATP being that I used to be a CFI there. I did not do all my ratings there but I wish I would have. Either these guys hate the airlines they are at(I know a ton of guys at who even at UPS or FedEx who cry about their job and how crappy it is) or just hate ATP(which there are a lot of those). ATP doesn't steal your money. I know I worked there. Every instructor I know at ATP works their butts off to make sure you don't have to buy extra time. Most of the guys here have loans and feel your pain. I went to a four year college and did the majority of my flying there. I hated how slow it took. Yes the Career Pilot Program is intense, yes it goes fast which means you cant be partying you have to take it seriously its preparing you for the airlines.
You do get to fly around the country and see it while being a student there. They put you in hotels and pay for it all. It's fun and your going to meet a lot of people. This is just like any other flight school except they go faster than everyone else because your doing it everyday. Working at ATP wasn't bad at all. Sure some places pay more but, they don't have as many students as you will have at ATP. They wont give you discounted housing at a location you teach at with all utilities included. They wont be able to give you the multi time you want. You will also be able to get the Regional Jet course discounted and sometimes for free. Yes its not that fancy but it allows you to get hired at way less minimums than normally.I was very skeptical about ATP before I went there. Until i talked with over 30 guys working at current airlines who taught there or did some rating there and they said it was great and recommended it.
When the weather wasn't crap I flew about 6-8 hours a day every day. I gave a lot of ground too that I didn't get paid for. I wasn't doing it for the money. Nor are any other CFI's. I would be more than happy to talk about any questions you have. Sent me a message and I will respond as soon as I can.

Hey can you send me a message, I tried to send you a message but Idk if you have enough posts or something to let me send one to you. I would like to ask you some questions about it.

not sure why everybody is so negative about this and that about the pilot career, i honestly don't care how much i make, as long as i am flying, i graduated college 8 years ago and have did the corporate(non-flying) waited tables, bartended....etc and nothing makes me happier than flying, i have a wet commercial and about to get my CFI's and couldn't be happier, i went to another flight school that offered flight training in multi's in a somewhat accelerated environment, i was completely happy with my training and wouldn suggest it, and significantly cheper than ATP, PM me if you want more info
why not share the information with everyone? we all could benefit :)