Airline Pilot Forums

In another forum it says there was a special joint CAL/UAL Mec meeting scheduled for late March. It also says that the CAL MEC pulled out of the meeting and now its just a UAL MEC meeting.

Anyone know why? Sure doesn't look good for the unity issue.

In another forum it says there was a special joint CAL/UAL Mec meeting scheduled for late March. It also says that the CAL MEC pulled out of the meeting and now its just a UAL MEC meeting.

Anyone know why? Sure doesn't look good for the unity issue.

Delay Delay Delay Delay was the threat from the EWR rep at their first joint meetting...Are the lawers running the show? Just wondering....I can actually see each group going at it alone if this continues...advantage to CAL ALPA since they do have a head start in that regards...Can we all just get along?

Boy just when I thought there was hope for getting a contract this year.


"March 8, 2012; United Continental Holdings, Inc. is happy to announce it has reached a tentative agreement with its former Continental Pilot Group. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Pierce, we have reached an agreement which will allow United Airlines to move forward into the future and secure its spot as the worlds premier airline. The agreement between the former Continental Pilot Group will allow us to staff the next generation B737 Max, our current deliveries of B737s, and 787s at industry competitive rates and retain the manpower advantages we have enjoyed.

While complete contract details will be announced in the near future, the tentative agreement includes a $20,000 per pilot signing bonus, twelve percent pay increases and continues to provide the staffing flexibility for our future aircraft fleet growth. We would like to thank Captain Pierce for his help in procuring this industry leading contract and the future of United Airlines."

Boy just when I thought there was hope for getting a contract this year.


"March 8, 2012; United Continental Holdings, Inc. is happy to announce it has reached a tentative agreement with its former Continental Pilot Group. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Pierce, we have reached an agreement which will allow United Airlines to move forward into the future and secure its spot as the worlds premier airline. The agreement between the former Continental Pilot Group will allow us to staff the next generation B737 Max, our current deliveries of B737s, and 787s at industry competitive rates and retain the manpower advantages we have enjoyed.

While complete contract details will be announced in the near future, the tentative agreement includes a $20,000 per pilot signing bonus, twelve percent pay increases and continues to provide the staffing flexibility for our future aircraft fleet growth. We would like to thank Captain Pierce for his help in procuring this industry leading contract and the future of United Airlines."

How about a link? Never mind I already know this is BS.

Boy just when I thought there was hope for getting a contract this year.


"March 8, 2012; United Continental Holdings, Inc. is happy to announce it has reached a tentative agreement with its former Continental Pilot Group. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Pierce, we have reached an agreement which will allow United Airlines to move forward into the future and secure its spot as the worlds premier airline. The agreement between the former Continental Pilot Group will allow us to staff the next generation B737 Max, our current deliveries of B737s, and 787s at industry competitive rates and retain the manpower advantages we have enjoyed.

While complete contract details will be announced in the near future, the tentative agreement includes a $20,000 per pilot signing bonus, twelve percent pay increases and continues to provide the staffing flexibility for our future aircraft fleet growth. We would like to thank Captain Pierce for his help in procuring this industry leading contract and the future of United Airlines."
Gotta a source??
Until such time, my good German friends would say....."Schiesdreck"!!

Boy just when I thought there was hope for getting a contract this year.


"March 8, 2012; United Continental Holdings, Inc. is happy to announce it has reached a tentative agreement with its former Continental Pilot Group. Under the leadership of Captain Jay Pierce, we have reached an agreement which will allow United Airlines to move forward into the future and secure its spot as the worlds premier airline. The agreement between the former Continental Pilot Group will allow us to staff the next generation B737 Max, our current deliveries of B737s, and 787s at industry competitive rates and retain the manpower advantages we have enjoyed.

While complete contract details will be announced in the near future, the tentative agreement includes a $20,000 per pilot signing bonus, twelve percent pay increases and continues to provide the staffing flexibility for our future aircraft fleet growth. We would like to thank Captain Pierce for his help in procuring this industry leading contract and the future of United Airlines."


You are good. Thinking of taking over Julie King's position in Media Relations/PR?

Not going to throw bombs.

Edited

Just talked to my LEC reps. This is a no BFD meeting and it isn't going to matter one way or the other. The main issue that needs to get solved at the moment is the scheduling stuff and that is in the hands of JNC.

So everybody needs to take a deep breath get some factual information and chill out. Don't sweat the little stuff.

Nice press release BTW, for anybody who even hesitated on that one I've got a bridge to sell on a beach in Arizona!;)

Nice press release BTW, for anybody who even hesitated on that one I've got a bridge to sell on a beach in Arizona!;)

So YOU'RE the guy who bought the London Bridge. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City)

So YOU'RE the guy who bought the London Bridge. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_%28Lake_Havasu_City))

You got me on that one!:)

From this week's CAL MEC update under the JNC update:

The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.

Sounds to me like the MECs were going to be meeting on their own.

From this week's CAL MEC update under the JNC update:



Sounds to me like the MECs were going to be meeting on their own.

From today's UAL MEC update:

Dear Fellow Pilots:

The United MEC and Continental MEC were scheduled for a joint meeting on March 19-20 in Houston. Due to the grievances filed this week by the United Pilots, there was concern from the Continental MEC that the joint meeting may have an impact on the resolution of those grievances.

From the "From the Chairman" section of the CAL MEC Update...


"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."


"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.

I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."


From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...

"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."

From the "From the Chairman" section of the CAL MEC Update...



We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."


Saddened? Little Lord Fauntleroy cut a side deal outside of the TPA. Which was it, profit sharing or a grievance settlement? Was it happy CAL pilots, holding money bags with hat on head or, a settlement for the sale of the 767-200's?

Saddened? You bet I am.

Saddened? Little Lord Fauntleroy cut a side deal outside of the TPA. Which was it, profit sharing or a grievance settlement? Was it happy CAL pilots, holding money bags with hat on head or, a settlement for the sale of the 767-200's?

Saddened? You bet I am.

....plus 1.

From the "From the Chairman" section of the CAL MEC Update...


"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."


"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.

I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."


From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...

"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."

I was giving Pearce quite a lot of slack.... Until I read this. Mr. Back Room Dealer probably can't see the nuclear bomb of hypocrisy in his communique, but I sure do.

I was giving Pearce quite a lot of slack.... Until I read this. Mr. Back Room Dealer probably can't see the nuclear bomb of hypocrisy in his communique, but I sure do.

None of know the full story, but was told CAL pilot group was listed? Can anyone on UA side verify. If so, how can there not be a trust deficit between MECs given the UA MEC profit sharing uproar, and now a grievance which will list CAL MEC and pilot group. Why would CAL MEC play right now, if the UA MEC filed a grievance that legally can damage our group and JCBA progress? I'm sure the lawyers are at the table on both sides...providing expensive advice, on our dime

You may not like what he says, but he's being honest with the CAL pilots about his intentions to protect our interest . Just as Jay H and your MEC decided to press ahead with the grievance They are protecting your interest as well (as it should be). Hopefully, this will get resolved soon and WE can focus on the real target, a JCBA. My biggest concern is not the comments from both MCs, because both have subliminal messages each group of there conerns and intention...but the longer we get caught up in the unon crap and negotiation delays..some self inflicted, the longer each and everyone us will suffer and lose money and QOL and the opportunity to get from under a BK and concessionary contracts NOW

Expect the separate announcement about a solo contract soon. I believe it will run something like this:

"From the Chairman:

As so many of you have witness since the announcement of the merger of two of the airlines. Continental and United, our progress towards achieving a pilot contract has been slow and painful at best. When I was recently asked about the delays, lack of substantial progress and what may be the root cause of them I was reminded of restoration of a classic car. In an effort to maintain originality of the components of the car it is often necessary to spend major efforts to rebuild and restore these to factory specifications. However, often times the wear, tear and corrosion are just too great for restoration. Even after spending many hours of detailed effort to do so they must be discarded and replaced with newly manufactured parts and so it is with our contract negotiations.

I am sad to announce the necessity to allow the former United pilot group to negotiate on their own and attempt to achieve a contract which meets their individual needs. I am also pleased to announce we, the former Continental pilot group, have achieved a historical contract agreement with United Airlines..."

None of know the full story, but was told CAL pilot group was listed? Can anyone on UA side verify. If so, how can there not be a trust deficit between MECs given the UA MEC profit sharing uproar, and now a grievance which will list CAL MEC and pilot group. Why would CAL MEC play right now, if the UA MEC filed a grievance that legally can damage our group and JCBA progress? I'm sure the lawyers are at the table on both sides...providing expensive advice, on our dime

You may not like what he says, but he's being honest with the CAL pilots about his intentions to protect our interest . Just as Jay H and your MEC decided to press ahead with the grievance They are protecting your interest as well (as it should be). Hopefully, this will get resolved soon and WE can focus on the real target, a JCBA. My biggest concern is not the comments from both MCs, because both have subliminal messages each group of there conerns and intention...but the longer we get caught up in the unon crap and negotiation delays..some self inflicted, the longer each and everyone us will suffer and lose money and QOL and the opportunity to get from under a BK and concessionary contracts NOW

The problem is this: For some reason Pearce thinks it ok to negotiate a deal outside of the trilateral talks required by the TPA. You guys got profit sharing out of that deal..... good for you. That may have been a violation of the TPA, which directly took money out of the UAL pilots already secured, contractually guarenteed profit sharing. Heppner files a grievance, and we will see if the claim has legs.

Read the tone of the different updates. Pearce's arrogance is ASTOUNDING. It's ok for him to wheel and deal behind the scenes just because negotiating WITH the UAL pilots might get more for the group as a whole, but slightly less for the CAL pilots individually. Now it so happens that selfish rogue act may have caused a violation of our contract, so we file a grievance and he acts like a spoiled 3 year old. I'm sure if you follow the history of these issues you see why this would tick us off.

I'm ALL for putting all this aside and getting on with the JCBA. Quit the side deals and lets focus! Trouble is, it's Pearce who keeps going rogue! That leaves Heppner NO CHOICE but to move IN RESPONSE to protect our contract. Trust me, if you reversed the actions of the Jays, you'd be having the same large cow I'm having right now. I'm appalled by his "update", frankly

That may have been a violation of the TPA, which directly took money out of the UAL pilots already secured, contractually guarenteed profit sharing.

You have your right to gripes about profit sharing, but the continued repetition of untruths related to the amount of profit sharing is ridiculous.

As has been stated many times by many people, the CAL pilot group getting profit sharing did not change the amount of the UAL pilot group profit sharing PERIOD. Profit sharing was calculated as if every employee was getting it. The result was the number...it wasn't going to change. Now, if we didn't get it, the total value of that money for the CAL pilot group would have been returned to company coffers, not to the other employees. Us being excluded was not going to bump up your profit sharing amount (i.e the same total pool divided by fewer people). That's not how the profit sharing plan works. WE didn't harm your bottom line in regards to profit sharing and we didn't take a cent from you or any other work group, CAL or UAL.

Now, if you have concerns about the way it was calculated under a merged profit sharing scenario in the combined company that is a different issue that needs to be taken up with management. If you feel your share of the profits should have been bigger that is a separate issue and is not really related to a particular work group but rather all work groups.

Has UAL ALPA settled any grievances since the T&PA was drafted?

EWR

"Now, if you have concerns about the way it was calculated under a merged profit sharing scenario in the combined company that is a different issue that needs to be taken up with management. If you feel your share of the profits should have been bigger that is a separate issue and is not really related to a particular work group but rather all work groups. "

You have accurately stated what the issue and the grievance is about.

It is sad to me that Pierce (and you possibly) would pull out and withdraw support of a grievance process which will in the end benefit ALL the pilots of United Airlines.

You have your right to gripes about profit sharing, but the continued repetition of untruths related to the amount of profit sharing is ridiculous.

As has been stated many times by many people, the CAL pilot group getting profit sharing did not change the amount of the UAL pilot group profit sharing PERIOD. Profit sharing was calculated as if every employee was getting it. The result was the number...it wasn't going to change. Now, if we didn't get it, the total value of that money for the CAL pilot group would have been returned to company coffers, not to the other employees. Us being excluded was not going to bump up your profit sharing amount (i.e the same total pool divided by fewer people). That's not how the profit sharing plan works. WE didn't harm your bottom line in regards to profit sharing and we didn't take a cent from you or any other work group, CAL or UAL.

Now, if you have concerns about the way it was calculated under a merged profit sharing scenario in the combined company that is a different issue that needs to be taken up with management. If you feel your share of the profits should have been bigger that is a separate issue and is not really related to a particular work group but rather all work groups.

You can't say any of this yet. Our lawyers obviously felt that there was inaccuracies in the way the profit sharing was distributed that was in violation of our contract. Whether that was due to the CAL pilots getting profit sharing or not is irrelevant to me. The grievance process will answer that question. Our lawyers also felt that the method the CAL pilots obtained profit sharing was in violation of TPA protocol. Again, we will see if that holds water.

I really don't care about either of these things. I'm glad you folks got profit sharing. Any dollar that goes to either pilot group and out of Jeff's paycheck makes me smile. But it is TOTAL BS for Pearce to write what he wrote after doing what he has done.

You were all warned about the CAL MEC and Pierce. It's time all United pilots stand up and say "enough is enough". Pierce has got to go. He is hurting the collective United pilot group.

I really don't care about either of these things. I'm glad you folks got profit sharing. Any dollar that goes to either pilot group and out of Jeff's paycheck makes me smile. But it is TOTAL BS for Pearce to write what he wrote after doing what he has done.

You were all warned about the CAL MEC and Pierce. It's time all United pilots stand up and say "enough is enough". Pierce has got to go. He is hurting the collective United pilot group.



Totally agree that any dollar that goes to a pilot is a good thing.

However, Jay Pierce did EXACTLY what he is required to do - follow the direction given him by the CAL MEC.

The UAL MEC has filed a grievance. The CAL MEC doesn't have to be happy about it. Jay can be "saddened" by it. Regardless, the grievance will work it's way through the system and we will all see if there is any merit. When this grievance is finally put to bed, I sure hope that some of you will let it go and be more concerned with the JCBA.

Totally agree that any dollar that goes to a pilot is a good thing.

However, Jay Pierce did EXACTLY what he is required to do - follow the direction given him by the CAL MEC.

The UAL MEC has filed a grievance. The CAL MEC doesn't have to be happy about it. Jay can be "saddened" by it. Regardless, the grievance will work it's way through the system and we will all see if there is any merit. When this grievance is finally put to bed, I sure hope that some of you will let it go and be more concerned with the JCBA.


Nice parting shot.
I can tell you that the NC has a laser-like focus on the JCBA, despite your attempt to minimize our concern.
If the company does an end-run around the T&PA, then I would expect my MEC to grieve it.
If the company operates counter to status quo requirements, then I would expect my MEC to pursue whatever action is appropriate to hold the company accountable.
I would be surprised if the CAL pilots expected anything less if the shoe was on the other foot.
In the meantime, the NC will continue to focus exclusively on the JCBA without distraction.

Hog

Nice parting shot.
I can tell you that the NC has a laser-like focus on the JCBA, despite your attempt to minimize our concern.
If the company does an end-run around the T&PA, then I would expect my MEC to grieve it.
If the company operates counter to status quo requirements, then I would expect my MEC to pursue whatever action is appropriate to hold the company accountable.
I would be surprised if the CAL pilots expected anything less if the shoe was on the other foot.
In the meantime, the NC will continue to focus exclusively on the JCBA without distraction.

Hog

No parting shot and you missed the point. The grievance will be heard soon, on the expedited basis of the TPA. I would always expect that any MEC should grieve anything they have issues with. What I said was that I hope that once the grievance has a ruling, the pilots like you will be more concerned about the JCBA.

You were all warned about the CAL MEC and Pierce. It's time all United pilots stand up and say "enough is enough". Pierce has got to go. He is hurting the collective United pilot group.

From the outside, it looks like the keyboard warriors here are doing plenty enough of that on their own...:rolleyes:

Didn't your group(s) get the message? Daytime soap operas are so 1980's....

Totally agree that any dollar that goes to a pilot is a good thing.

However, Jay Pierce did EXACTLY what he is required to do - follow the direction given him by the CAL MEC.

The UAL MEC has filed a grievance. The CAL MEC doesn't have to be happy about it. Jay can be "saddened" by it. Regardless, the grievance will work it's way through the system and we will all see if there is any merit. When this grievance is finally put to bed, I sure hope that some of you will let it go and be more concerned with the JCBA.

You've just illustrated my complaint. Jay can't sit on his kingdom and condescendingly say that we should let these trivial matters go and focus on the JCBA. When it was the CAL pilots who have an issue that needs resolving, it's apparently ok to 1) openly threaten to grind talks to a halt until the UAL pilots agree with the CAL pilots position on pay banding. 2) break out of TPA required tri-lateral talks to secure profit sharing for the CAL pilots. 3) file a grievance over 70 seaters in EWR and CLE. All of these things were outside the JCBA and Pearce felt needed attending to. I'm not arguing the fact that these things needed to be addressed (though I thought that the method of handling issues 1 and 2 were exceptionally poor). But now that the UAL pilots need to file a REACTIONARY grievance to deal with the fallout, Pearce is concerned about anything that might slow down a JCBA?? Come on. It's hypocritical, selfish, childish, condescending, and obnoxious. I too want nothing more than to get going on the JCBA, but if we need to defend our contract, we have the right to... just like the CAL pilots do. Pearce demands courtesy, and gives none.

I'm done with this conversation. I've had great experiences with the CAL pilots I've met. I really hope and believe we are all pulling on the same end of the rope for the same purpose. But Pearce needs to get some class. He's done more to set back the JCBA than I thought any one pilot could, so his crying about UAL pilots defending their contract due to HIS rogue actions doesn't hold much water with me.

No parting shot and you missed the point. The grievance will be heard soon, on the expedited basis of the TPA. I would always expect that any MEC should grieve anything they have issues with. What I said was that I hope that once the grievance has a ruling, the pilots like you will be more concerned about the JCBA.

We will be. Just as you were more concerned about the JCBA AFTER you got your profit sharing.

You've just illustrated my complaint. Jay can't sit on his kingdom and condescendingly say that we should let these trivial matters go and focus on the JCBA. When it was the CAL pilots who have an issue that needs resolving, it's apparently ok to 1) openly threaten to grind talks to a halt until the UAL pilots agree with the CAL pilots position on pay banding. 2) break out of TPA required tri-lateral talks to secure profit sharing for the CAL pilots. 3) file a grievance over 70 seaters in EWR and CLE. All of these things were outside the JCBA and Pearce felt needed attending to. I'm not arguing the fact that these things needed to be addressed (though I thought that the method of handling issues 1 and 2 were exceptionally poor). But now that the UAL pilots need to file a REACTIONARY grievance to deal with the fallout, Pearce is concerned about anything that might slow down a JCBA?? Come on. It's hypocritical, selfish, childish, condescending, and obnoxious. I too want nothing more than to get going on the JCBA, but if we need to defend our contract, we have the right to... just like the CAL pilots do. Pearce demands courtesy, and gives none.

I'm done with this conversation. I've had great experiences with the CAL pilots I've met. I really hope and believe we are all pulling on the same end of the rope for the same purpose. But Pearce needs to get some class. He's done more to set back the JCBA than I thought any one pilot could, so his crying about UAL pilots defending their contract due to HIS rogue actions doesn't hold much water with me.

ROFLMAO... Because Wendy and crew were so on point that it MUST be only Pierce's fault. I am so glad you are here to save us.

We will be. Just as you were more concerned about the JCBA AFTER you got your profit sharing.

I was never concerned about profit sharing. I'm still not, but so glad you are fixated on it :rolleyes:

No parting shot and you missed the point. The grievance will be heard soon, on the expedited basis of the TPA. I would always expect that any MEC should grieve anything they have issues with. What I said was that I hope that once the grievance has a ruling, the pilots like you will be more concerned about the JCBA.

No, I didn't miss your point, but you obviously missed mine. You are implying that the UAL pilots are distracted by the grievances while they should be focused on the contract. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although for whatever reason you appear to want to push this version of the situation.
Meanwhile, if the account is true, your MEC has pulled out of a joint MEC meeting scheduled for this week. Let's see if that is the case, and how it plays out. If it is true then on the one hand we have a UAL MEC that did what it had to to fight for the interest of its pilots; and on the other hand we have a CAL MEC that decides to pout and pull out of a joint meeting.
Hopefully your MEC will get past this so we can get to a point where your MEC and pilots like you will be more concerned about the JCBA.

Here's hopin'.

Hog

From the outside, it looks like the keyboard warriors here are doing plenty enough of that on their own...:rolleyes:

Didn't your group(s) get the message? Daytime soap operas are so 1980's....


I guess your being on the outside gives you the insight to come to this forum and tell any United Pilot what's going on. You must be a USAir winner. Give us a break!

I guess your being on the outside gives you the insight to come to this forum and tell any United Pilot what's going on. You must be a USAir winner. Give us a break!

Nope I would guess one of those dal guys,

No, I didn't miss your point, but you obviously missed mine. You are implying that the UAL pilots are distracted by the grievances while they should be focused on the contract. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although for whatever reason you appear to want to push this version of the situation.
Meanwhile, if the account is true, your MEC has pulled out of a joint MEC meeting scheduled for this week. Let's see if that is the case, and how it plays out. If it is true then on the one hand we have a UAL MEC that did what it had to to fight for the interest of its pilots; and on the other hand we have a CAL MEC that decides to pout and pull out of a joint meeting.
Hopefully your MEC will get past this so we can get to a point where your MEC and pilots like you will be more concerned about the JCBA.

Here's hopin'.

Hog

Look, please understand, you and I most likely agree on most of what has happened and is at stake, even if we disagree on the method. The joint meeting isn't going to happen next week, but that fact is not a huge deal. They will work it out. As was said, the JNC is zero'd in on the JCBA. The grievance is working its way through the process. Continuing to fight on an Internet forum is doing nothing to help the unity between pilot groups.

Continuing to fight on an Internet forum is doing nothing to help the unity between pilot groups.

A truer statement has never been said. So to speak...

EWR

"Now, if you have concerns about the way it was calculated under a merged profit sharing scenario in the combined company that is a different issue that needs to be taken up with management. If you feel your share of the profits should have been bigger that is a separate issue and is not really related to a particular work group but rather all work groups. "

You have accurately stated what the issue and the grievance is about.

It is sad to me that Pierce (and you possibly) would pull out and withdraw support of a grievance process which will in the end benefit ALL the pilots of United Airlines.

I am not advocating pulling out of the grievance process at all. I'm all for filing any grievance that either group feels they are entitled to. No problem with that at all which I had hoped the last paragraph had conveyed. If it wasn't clear, my apologies.

For me, I was just tired of hearing comments that CAL pilots took money out of UAL pilots' pockets. One said to me that I and every other pilot in our group stole money that the UAL pilots worked hard to earn. It's not like this pilot group has been sitting back lounging around drinking lattes since the merger announcement, especially given the terrible work rules in the CAL contract.

You've just illustrated my complaint. Jay can't sit on his kingdom and condescendingly say that we should let these trivial matters go and focus on the JCBA. When it was the CAL pilots who have an issue that needs resolving, it's apparently ok to 1) openly threaten to grind talks to a halt until the UAL pilots agree with the CAL pilots position on pay banding. 2) break out of TPA required tri-lateral talks to secure profit sharing for the CAL pilots. 3) file a grievance over 70 seaters in EWR and CLE. All of these things were outside the JCBA and Pearce felt needed attending to. I'm not arguing the fact that these things needed to be addressed (though I thought that the method of handling issues 1 and 2 were exceptionally poor). But now that the UAL pilots need to file a REACTIONARY grievance to deal with the fallout, Pearce is concerned about anything that might slow down a JCBA?? Come on. It's hypocritical, selfish, childish, condescending, and obnoxious. I too want nothing more than to get going on the JCBA, but if we need to defend our contract, we have the right to... just like the CAL pilots do. Pearce demands courtesy, and gives none.

I'm done with this conversation. I've had great experiences with the CAL pilots I've met. I really hope and believe we are all pulling on the same end of the rope for the same purpose. But Pearce needs to get some class. He's done more to set back the JCBA than I thought any one pilot could, so his crying about UAL pilots defending their contract due to HIS rogue actions doesn't hold much water with me.

"But Pearce needs to get some class"

That is not going to happen. The Sugarland Magazine article about J.P. pretty much shows his arrogance.

First, he's pictured flying in the right seat. What kind of M.C. would do this?

Second, in one of the last paragraphs, he tells prospect airline pilots to not pursue the profession until he fixes it. YHGTBSM! This guy is delusional and is a total narcissist.

"But Pearce needs to get some class"

That is not going to happen. The Sugarland Magazine article about J.P. pretty much shows his arrogance.

First, he's pictured flying in the right seat. What kind of M.C. would do this?

Second, in one of the last paragraphs, he tells prospect airline pilots to not pursue the profession until he fixes it. YHGTBSM! This guy is delusional and is a total narcissist.
Subliminal messaging, He does owe management a few favors!

As has been stated many times by many people, the CAL pilot group getting profit sharing did not change the amount of the UAL pilot group profit sharing PERIOD. Really? Here is the corporate structure from the annual report flied on 2/22/12 that remains unchanged.


United Continental Holdings, Inc. and Subsidiary Companies
United Air Lines, Inc. and Subsidiary Companies
Continental Airlines, Inc. and Subsidiary Companies
Report on Form 10-K
For the Year Ended December 31, 2011


Notice there is no more UAL Corp. Here are the contractual provisions for United profit sharing.


3-L-2 Profit Sharing Program
3-L-2-a Eligibility - All domestic employees of UAL Corp. or United Airlines Inc. (including all pilots) who have completed one year of service as of December 31st of the year for which Pre-Tax Earnings are being measured.
3-L-2-b Pre-Tax Earnings: UAL consolidated net income as determined in accordance with GAAP, but excluding (i) consolidated federal, state and local income tax expense (or credit); (ii) unusual, special, or non-recurring charges, (iii) charges with respect to the grant, exercise or vesting of equity, securities or options granted to UAL and United
UNITED AIRLINES REWRITE 2003
ALPAPage 42
Section 3-L-2-c
UNITED AIRLINES
REWRITE 2003 ALPA
employees, and (iv) expense associated with the profit sharing contributions.
3-L-2-c Profit Sharing Pool - In the event that the Company has more than $10 million in Pre-Tax Earnings in the relevant calendar year, 7.5% of Pre-Tax Earnings in 2005 and 2006 and 15% of Pre-Tax Earnings in each calendar year thereafter.
3-L-2-d Relationship to Other Programs - Incremental to the Success Sharing Plan.
3-L-2-e Allocation - For each eligible employee, a pro rata share of the Profit Sharing Pool for each calendar year based on the ratio of the employee's Considered Earnings for the year to the aggregate amount of Considered Earnings for all eligible employees that year.
3-L-2-f Payment Date - Profit Sharing payments will be made by no later than April 30th of the following year.
3-L-2-g Distribution - Profit Sharing payments will be paid to the pilot in cash, subject to applicable 401(k) deferral election, withholding and taxes.
3-L-2-h Considered Earnings - As currently defined in the Company's Success Sharing Plan (i.e., base pay, overtime, holiday pay, longevity pay, sick pay, vacation pay, shift differential, premiums, pre-tax contributions to a 401 (k) plan, pre-tax medical plan contributions, and flexible spending account contributions but not expense reimbursement, incentive or profit sharing payments, imputed income or other similar awards or allowances).


Notice there is no mention of any Continental Airlines Inc. employees.

If this is true, look at the numbers: First of all, what is the duration of the contract? Let's assume 4 years. The contract has been open for 4 years with another 4 attached to that. A 12% pay increase equals a whooping 1.5% pay increase per year! Wow! Food stamp recepients get more of a raise than that. Then there is a $20,000 signing bonus? Again, divide 20,000 by 8 = $2500 per year. Of course that does not include taxes and ALPA's chunk of the proceeds. Jay Pierce a hero? He's a hero for management and that's why they are thanking him. Next time let the F/A's negotiate for the pilots. At least they have cajones.

If this is true...That's so 37 posts ago. It was a joke... if our MEC came up with those numbers on this contract there would be a mutiny.

That's so 37 posts ago. It was a joke... if our MEC came up with those numbers on this contract there would be a mutiny.

Now that is refreshing and I'll drink to that! In fact, I'll drink to just about anything. Both contracts are limp and in serious need of repair. Let's all hoist a tumbler to the collective growing of the cajones and the necessary leadership from both MC's, and MEC's to give us a TA we can vote yes on.

But based on what I've seen so far, more years of effluent are going to be dumped upon our heads. So, back to drinking.