Airline Pilot Forums

FARNBOROUGH: SkyWest Airlines commits to 100 MRJs

By: MAVIS TOH SINGAPORE
31 minutes ago


Mitsubishi Aircraft and SkyWest Airlines Inc have reached an agreement in principle for 100 of the airframer's Mitsubishi Regional Jets.

The agreement for the Pratt & Whitney PW1200G-powered MRJ90s is likely to be firmed "in the coming weeks". They will be operated by SkyWest Airlines and ExpressJet.

Deliveries will start in 2017, running through to 2020.


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I thought this was a joke when I first saw this thread. But it's on Bloomberg now. Didn't see that one coming.

Mitsubishi Wins Regional-Jet Order From SkyWest - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-11/mitsubishi-wins-regional-jet-order-from-skywest.html)

I wonder which parent company these will be operating under, and if Delta's scope clause will even allow it?

I wonder which parent company these will be operating under, and if Delta's scope clause will even allow it?

So, it's like super-duper official now. There's a memo up on the company website. But it says they plan to operate them at both SkyWest Airlines and Expressjet, under contract with major partners, subject to scope limitations.

I guess we'll see how that goes.

So, it's like super-duper official now. There's a memo up on the company website. But it says they plan to operate them at both SkyWest Airlines and Expressjet, under contract with major partners, subject to scope limitations.

I guess we'll see how that goes.
I wonder if there's any chance SkyWest and ExpressJet would just merge into one huge regional airline...seems like that would make sense for management.

So does this mean that the MRJ will be the 50-seat replacement, rather than the CRJ900?

I wonder if there's any chance SkyWest and ExpressJet would just merge into one huge regional airline...seems like that would make sense for management.

So does this mean that the MRJ will be the 50-seat replacement, rather than the CRJ900?

SkyWest in non-union, it wouldn't make sense from a management perspective to merge the company with a larger unionized airline.

too bad its not til 2017. 5 frikkin years from now. A lot can happen between now and then...

too bad its not til 2017. 5 frikkin years from now. A lot will happen between now and then...

Fixed it for ya!

Just made a good chunk of change on this announcement...
Kaching...

I wonder which parent company these will be operating under, and if Delta's scope clause will even allow it?

Believe me, for a mere 19% payraise our group will "allow" it. In fact, we just allowed more 76 seaters in this new contract (which are really 90 seaters), while reducing the 50 seat footprint.

Concerned,
TEN

Believe me, for a mere 19% payraise our group will "allow" it. In fact, we just allowed more 76 seaters in this new contract (which are really 90 seaters), while reducing the 50 seat footprint.

Concerned,
TEN
So do you think that the CRJ900s will replace the CRJs through that 2 for 1 exchange in the coming years, and then the MRJ will be in addition to those, from a Delta perspective? That's going to be a huge amount of regional aircraft then.

Every lifer at these regionals just creamed themselves.

What the fudge...

Cool looking regional rice rocket!
MRJ - Mitsubishi Regional Jet (http://www.mrj-japan.com/)

I sure hope mainline scope prohibits these based on weight -- regardless of seat configuration.

Every lifer at these regionals just creamed themselves.

^^^^^^^I don't post here much but I had to tell you that was REALLY funny!

I sure hope mainline scope prohibits these based on weight -- regardless of seat configuration.

Mainline Pilots will probably talk a big game but in the end trade scope for pay raises...

By 2017, Delta will probably have a new contract allowing these MRJs to exist...

So do you think that the CRJ900s will replace the CRJs through that 2 for 1 exchange in the coming years, and then the MRJ will be in addition to those, from a Delta perspective? That's going to be a huge amount of regional aircraft then.

There is no growth associated with the airplanes, according to mgmt. These are a replacement. A shift from 50's to 70/90's.

I sure hope mainline scope prohibits these based on weight -- regardless of seat configuration.

Or better than prohibit, forces their parent airlines to fire SkyWest "air group" and watch on the sidelines hunched over in laughter as they flail around ala IndyAir and then fade away into oblivion.

There is no growth associated with the airplanes, according to mgmt. These are a replacement. A shift from 50's to 70/90's.

Yes. Cool your jets people. These are nothing more than 70's and 90's made by a different brand. They offer newer technology than the CRJ, especially with the GTF which will bring significant fuel savings. It was also designed with more cabin space on the inside.

This will set SKW up to make an educated decision when they ultimately replace their larger CRJ's...they'll have experience with two RJ brands and can pick the best one. All depends on how well mitsubishi can execute their program...on paper it should win hands down.

Bombardier may have hosed themselves by dumping the R&D resources into a quixotic 100 seater instead of updating the 70/90.

Or better than prohibit, forces their parent airlines to fire SkyWest "air group" and watch on the sidelines hunched over in laughter as they flail around ala IndyAir and then fade away into oblivion.


Huh? They weigh only a little more than a 900. This is not new inroads into mainline flying, it's just replacement hardware.

No mainline union has the willpower to force their company to do something as drastic as fire a large regional.

Yes. Cool your jets people. These are nothing more than 70's and 90's made by a different brand. They offer newer technology than the CRJ, especially with the GTF which will bring significant fuel savings. It was also designed with more cabin space on the inside.

This will set SKW up to make an educated decision when they ultimately replace their larger CRJ's...they'll have experience with two RJ brands and can pick the best one. All depends on how well mitsubishi can execute their program...on paper it should win hands down.

Bombardier may have hosed themselves by dumping the R&D resources into a quixotic 100 seater instead of updating the 70/90.
So...forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that SkyWest and ExpressJet will still be doing the 2 for 1 trade concept with Delta for the CR9, or is that scrapped now?

One of the rumors floating around SLC recently that most of us dismissed as complete horse-pucky until this announcement was that the long term strategic plan was for Inc. to eventually replace all our airframes with MRJs across both airlines saving tons of money on warehousing, mx, crew training, dispatcher training, etc. Also, supposedly there is some sort of handshake agreement for Mitsubishi to scale down the MRJ to a 50 seat configuration that with the GTF technology should allow it to be operated profitably on routes currently served unprofitably by the CRJ.

This was a laughable rumor until this came along, now I'm not too sure. Originally we had been hearing something like 700 new airframes across both airlines to replace everything, and we certainly aren't going to be getting 700 70/90 seat aircraft.

Flame on!

Mainline Pilots will probably talk a big game but in the end trade scope for pay raises...

By 2017, Delta will probably have a new contract allowing these MRJs to exist...

I'm not sure if you heard but management just asked us to relax scope to 82 seats and our response was "no way!"

We just lowered the amount of RJs and RJ pilots in the Delta fleet and got a pay raise. Choose to look at it how you want.

Or better than prohibit, forces their parent airlines to fire SkyWest "air group" and watch on the sidelines hunched over in laughter as they flail around ala IndyAir and then fade away into oblivion.

Good thing you're gonna help me get on at Delta before then. Right?

So does this mean Skywest Inc. is going to stop flying for DAL as a DCI carrier by 2017? Maybe they plan on combining all 3 regionals into their own LCC?

The Delta TA (amendable 2015) that was just voted in prohibits these jets, no matter who they fly them for. Unless RAH buys Skywest...

Its gonna be for Alaska. Then they are gonna fly Delta code share flights.

Some are gonna be for United and American also.....some US airways too.

Didn't read the article... are these 100 seaters?

Is Trans States still getting their 100 MRJs? I think TSA is supposed to start recieveing orders in 2014, but have yet to hear any further announcements. Sadly, it looks like a mainline aircraft, but will be flown for crappy RJ wages. I fear the same fate for anybody who will be sitting in a C-Series.

Its gonna be for Alaska. Then they are gonna fly Delta code share flights.

Some are gonna be for United and American also.....some US airways too.

The code code share is correct.

Is Trans States still getting their 100 MRJs? I think TSA is supposed to start recieveing orders in 2014, but have yet to hear any further announcements. Sadly, it looks like a mainline aircraft, but will be flown for crappy RJ wages. I fear the same fate for anybody who will be sitting in a C-Series.

19 month delay on the delivery due to delays in production. 2015 is the projection now.

Didn't read the article... are these 100 seaters?

From 70 to 90 -- "The configuration of seats would be determined by scope limitations and airline requirements at the time of delivery."

There will be a 50 seat version as well. larger cabin, longer range, efficient engines with 2 class cabin.

There will be a 50 seat version as well. larger cabin, longer range, efficient engines with 2 class cabin.

Source? Mistu is only making a 70 and 90 seat version...

Is Trans States still getting their 100 MRJs? I think TSA is supposed to start recieveing orders in 2014, but have yet to hear any further announcements. Sadly, it looks like a mainline aircraft, but will be flown for crappy RJ wages. I fear the same fate for anybody who will be sitting in a C-Series.


How is it a mainline airplane? Well, let's put it this way, how is it MORE of a mainline airplane than CRJ 700/900? It's not.

This is a long-term positioning move to enable fleet technology upgrades in the future. Five years is a long time, nobody can predict that far out, especially significant FFD contract expirations looming. Unless UA, US, or AK has already made some super-secret deal with SGU (doubtful).

Maybe a dumb question, forgive me; Didn't Bombardier announce a big order of 900s the other day? So wouldn't these MRJs be meant for something other than Delta flying?

[QUOTE=rickair7777;1228012]how is it MORE of a mainline airplane than CRJ 700/900? It's not[QUOTE]

If you showed this to a mainline pilot 20 years ago, he'd crap himself to find it's a regional. "Regionals fly props" he'd say. When you told him the pay, he'd laugh.

It's a regional if guys are flying it while making regional money. Hell, a 777 can be a regional if guys are allowed to fly it for **** wages. The sad reality is, many guys would jump at the oppertunity - all the while slitting their throats for career progression. SJS is a death sentence.

how is it MORE of a mainline airplane than CRJ 700/900? It's not

If you showed this to a mainline pilot 20 years ago, he'd crap himself to find it's a regional. "Regionals fly props" he'd say. When you told him the pay, he'd laugh.

It's a regional if guys are flying it while making regional money. Hell, a 777 can be a regional if guys are allowed to fly it for **** wages. The sad reality is, many guys would jump at the oppertunity - all the while slitting their throats for career progression. SJS is a death sentence.

Selling out scope is a death sentence.

Fixed it for you.

If you showed this to a mainline pilot 20 years ago, he'd crap himself to find it's a regional. "Regionals fly props" he'd say. When you told him the pay, he'd laugh.

It's a regional if guys are flying it while making regional money. Hell, a 777 can be a regional if guys are allowed to fly it for **** wages. The sad reality is, many guys would jump at the oppertunity - all the while slitting their throats for career progression. SJS is a death sentence.


I won't argue with any of that, but this is just replacing existing hardware with similar, but more efficient hardware. It's nothing new.

SJS is what it is, all we can do is try to educate kids (which I've been attempting since 2006, not sure if I've had any success or if that's even possible).

...this is just replacing existing hardware with similar, but more efficient hardware. It's nothing new.

So the MRJ will be replacing the CRJ900? Nope. It will be replacing the 50 seaters, which only adds to the capacity at the regional level. Not a good thing if you're hoping to be a career pilot with decent pay.

So the MRJ will be replacing the CRJ900? Nope. It will be replacing the 50 seaters, which only adds to the capacity at the regional level. Not a good thing if you're hoping to be a career pilot with decent pay.
I thought the CRJ900, not the MRJ is replacing the 50 seaters, at least over at Delta? And the Delta scope clause limits the number of regional aircraft in a 1/1 ratio with new mainline aircraft.

Skywest flies for United and Usairways, too. Delta is not the be all, end all.

Skywest flies for United and Usairways, too. Delta is not the be all, end all.

Add Alaska to that list.

Maybe a dumb question, forgive me; Didn't Bombardier announce a big order of 900s the other day? So wouldn't these MRJs be meant for something other than Delta flying?

The CRJ900's are going to GOJET.

"I cannot overemphasize how important it is to remain competitive in our ability to accept these or any aircraft."

Brad Rich
President - Skywest Inc

"I cannot overemphasize how important it is to remain competitive in our ability to accept these or any aircraft."

Brad Rich
President - Skywest Inc

We need one list now more than ever.

So the MRJ will be replacing the CRJ900? Nope. It will be replacing the 50 seaters, which only adds to the capacity at the regional level. Not a good thing if you're hoping to be a career pilot with decent pay.

It's a 2-for-1 deal with DAL, and I assume (hope) that UA, US, etc will follow their lead.

I'm no fan of expanding regionals, I'd rather see all flying at mainline.

But that's not a priority for mainline pilots, they have historically been willing to make a deal with the devil...the senior guys assume (correctly) that it won't effect them, the middle guys are apparently willing to take a chance, and the junior guys are either short-sighted or out-voted.

The CRJ900's are going to GOJET.

But first GoJet will promise to park every 50 seater they have on property.

1 list boys..Sky Express....I kid..but seriously..1 list.

"I cannot overemphasize how important it is to remain competitive in our ability to accept these or any aircraft."

Brad Rich
President - Skywest Inc

Just curious....is he wrong? Or do you just not like the message?

Well, like it or not, that's the regionals. The grass is greener over there, so get you app in at Virgin, JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant, Delta, United, Usairways, American, Hawaiian, Alaska, Emirates, Fly Dubai, or any number of Fractionals/135 and 91 operators. None of the must compete for flying. When you 'compete' for flying,......you must be competitive! Sad, but true. So, tell me how he's wrong?

But first GoJet will promise to park every 50 seater they have on property.

GoJet only flies CRJ700's (for now).

The CRJ900's are going to GOJET.

But first GoJet will promise to park every 50 seater they have on property.

GoJet only flies CRJ700's (for now).

soon2bfo, that one flew right over your head! It was a joke... we know GoJetzzzzz doesn't fly the light iron, only the heavy stuff.

soon2bfo, that one flew right over your head! It was a joke... we know GoJetzzzzz doesn't fly the light iron, only the heavy stuff.

Thanks PLT, I was trying to point out the hole in his argument without sounding like a condescending internet tool.

It is also possible that GoJetsss will get more DCI 900s, and Delta was just lying to DALPA about needing more 900s to park 50s.

............

Makes sense. The Skywest pilot group, being non-union, will have to eat the fact that UAL pilots will be flying the LEFT SEAT on the MRJ for Skywest in a Jets for Jobs scheme. :)

For every regional pilot reading the thread, who has even a little bit of drive to get out of the regionals, I can guarantee you you'll be outta there in 5 years.

Look back to 2007 (right before Age 65 was passed) and the hiring boom, regionals offering signing bonuses, mins reduced to...oh wait, they can't do that any more, and realize that will again be the case within the next 2 years.

Basically anyone already in the airline world WILL be at a major in 5 years if they choose to.

Look at the retirement numbers, look at what's happening in the regional world. All those Capacity Purchase Agreements that expired in 2015 aren't so far from expiration now.

To sum it up, view the mainline scope fight as your own because you'll all be there sooner than you think.

United will be hiring off the street in September.

For every regional pilot reading the thread, who has even a little bit of drive to get out of the regionals, I can guarantee you you'll be outta there in 5 years.

Look back to 2007 (right before Age 65 was passed) and the hiring boom, regionals offering signing bonuses, mins reduced to...oh wait, they can't do that any more, and realize that will again be the case within the next 2 years.

Basically anyone already in the airline world WILL be at a major in 5 years if they choose to.

Look at the retirement numbers, look at what's happening in the regional world. All those Capacity Purchase Agreements that expired in 2015 aren't so far from expiration now.

To sum it up, view the mainline scope fight as your own because you'll all be there sooner than you think.

United will be hiring off the street in September.

This guy gets it.. Everyone needs to prepare for interviews in IAH and training in IAH. CAL is taking delivery of the new airframes, they will make the decisions in hiring.. My dad is a CAL guy and I had a long conversation with him today. The hiring will be drastic.

Make the sacrifice, go to Guam, be an FO instead of an IRO, and get stuff done, guys.

"I cannot overemphasize how important it is to remain competitive in our ability to accept these or any aircraft."

Brad Rich
President - Skywest Inc

Translation....pilots, you need to agree to fly this new type of aircraft without any demands for additional payment or compensation.

soon2bfo, that one flew right over your head! It was a joke... we know GoJetzzzzz doesn't fly the light iron, only the heavy stuff.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6VX3bwAxwFk/T6Pwv_ZziKI/AAAAAAAAAyg/7-ZVImTBxdE/s1600/sad-face.jpg

Sorry. I'm so depressed by the state of things in the airline industry that I have completely lost my sense of irony.

"I cannot overemphasize how important it is to remain competitive in our ability to accept these or any aircraft."

Brad Rich
President - Skywest Inc

Just curious....is he wrong? Or do you just not like the message?

Well, like it or not, that's the regionals. The grass is greener over there, so get you app in at Virgin, JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant, Delta, United, Usairways, American, Hawaiian, Alaska, Emirates, Fly Dubai, or any number of Fractionals/135 and 91 operators. None of the must compete for flying. When you 'compete' for flying,......you must be competitive! Sad, but true. So, tell me how he's wrong?

Did I say he was wrong? How does having two sets of management salaries and two sets of overhead costs help the competitive ability to accept these or any aircraft?

...view the mainline scope fight as your own because you'll all be there sooner than you think.

we always have. unfortunately, our votes don't count, and the senior mainline guys have always won by signing away scope. you think we regional pilots wanted bigger regionals with more, bigger planes? the only people who wanted that were the mainline pilots that signed it away.

we always have. unfortunately, our votes don't count, and the senior mainline guys have always won by signing away scope. you think we regional pilots wanted bigger regionals with more, bigger planes? the only people who wanted that were the mainline pilots that signed it away.

Can't disagree with you on that one.

I'm just excited for all the regional guys, like I used to be myself, who are going to be hired in the next 10 years. People who realize they got their PIC not by flying a Saab to Rochester or Albany, but who flew coast-to-coast on an E-170.

In other words, people who know what scope has meant for their regional career and understand it once they get to mainline.

I'll never vote on something that relaxes scope because I saw first hand how my regional doubled in size in only two years due to scope relaxation!

but you did benefit from that did you not jumppilot?

but you did benefit from that did you not jumppilot?

Short term benefit, long term loss.

Like nailing a Victoria's Secret model with VD.

but you did benefit from that did you not jumppilot?


Of course I benefited from that.

But I benefited the same way guys did 15 years ago when everyone was hiring and scope was relatively contained.

Get hired by a regional --> hang out for 3-5 years flying a turboprop out of Pittsburgh ---> get hired by a major.

That's how it used to be. Unfortunately everyone has just been extending their own pain by allowing outsourcing.

Regardless, because of Age 65 (again, just look at the numbers!) everyone will be in a lot better spot if they so choose to.

I look forward to having regional guys at the bottom of major airlines' lists whose paradigm shifts from "I'm upgrading due to scope!" to "Uh-oh. I'm getting furloughed due to scope."

Translation....pilots, you need to agree to fly this new type of aircraft without any demands for additional payment or compensation.

Welcome to the regional industry mr. obvious

Short term benefit, long term loss.

Like nailing a Victoria's Secret model with VD.


that hurts.

Of course I benefited from that.

But I benefited the same way guys did 15 years ago when everyone was hiring and scope was relatively contained.

Get hired by a regional --> hang out for 3-5 years flying a turboprop out of Pittsburgh ---> get hired by a major.

That's how it used to be. Unfortunately everyone has just been extending their own pain by allowing outsourcing.

Regardless, because of Age 65 (again, just look at the numbers!) everyone will be in a lot better spot if they so choose to.

I look forward to having regional guys at the bottom of major airlines' lists whose paradigm shifts from "I'm upgrading due to scope!" to "Uh-oh. I'm getting furloughed due to scope."

fair enough. thanks.

but you did benefit from that did you not jumppilot?

we would have all benefitted a lot more if it did not happen. we'd all be mainline pilots now instead of regional pilots.

seriously, does any mainline pilot actually think that regional pilots are glad that mainline pilots gave up scope? the people that run the regionals are glad, the people that run mainline are glad, but the regional pilots? no, we are not glad.

Short term benefit, long term loss.

Like nailing a Victoria's Secret model with VD.

Not a fair comparison. More like nailing the kinda cute girl with the lazy eye. And VD.

Its gonna be for Alaska. Then they are gonna fly Delta code share flights.

Some are gonna be for United and American also.....some US airways too.

Prohibited by the Delta pilots contract.

Prohibited by the Delta pilots contract.

Will the majority of Delta pilots vote to trade scope for pay raises once again come 2015?

Will the majority of Delta pilots vote to trade scope for pay raises once again come 2015?

Impossible. 450 is a hard cap. :cool:

Will the majority of Delta pilots vote to trade scope for pay raises once again come 2015?

Hard to say. Many consider this latest contract Scope tightening, & not a sale.

Hard to say. Many consider this latest contract Scope tightening, & not a sale.


It was scope tightening with respect to fleet and capacity reduction and Delta pilots held the line on the 76-seat limit.

It was a scope sale with respect to the total number of 76-seat aircraft that will be added to the DCI fleet.

It was scope tightening with respect to fleet and capacity reduction and Delta pilots held the line on the 76-seat limit.

It was a scope sale with respect to the total number of 76-seat aircraft that will be added to the DCI fleet.

Yup. Many of us more aggressive on the scope side of things consider it a sale as a result of added jumbo RJs, but most people think it was scope tightening since it shrinks dci.

Yup. Many of us more aggressive on the scope side of things consider it a sale as a result of added jumbo RJs, but most people think it was scope tightening since it shrinks dci.

When are the 773's coming? Didn't I hear something about those being ordered?