Airline Pilot Forums

Official: 3 Americans die as private jet crashes in France - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/world/europe/france-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

RIP... Looks like only the crew on board...co pilot 24... Is that normal for a charter GIV?

The Captain of our KA200 and Citation Ultra is 25... age matters not! Only experience.

..........

Official: 3 Americans die as private jet crashes in France - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/world/europe/france-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Paris (CNN) -- Three Americans died when a private jet crashed at a small airport in the south of France, a local official said Friday.
Two men, ages 24 and 51, and a 30-year-old woman were on board the plane when it crashed at Castellet airport, said Didier Couve, a spokesman for the Prefecture of the Var department.
The three were the only people on the plane, Couve said.
The airplane, a Gulfstream IV, belonged to Universal Jet Aviation, a charter company with three U.S. locations and one in London.
"Universal Jet Aviation confirms an aviation accident involving one of our Gulfstream IV aircrafts at Le Castellet, France, and we currently have no further details concerning the circumstances of this incident," said a member of the charters department, who declined to give his name, citing company policy.
"There were no passengers on board the aircraft although the flight crew was lost. We are cooperating with all investigative agencies. Our focus at this time is supporting the needs of the crew and their families."
A spokeswoman for the airport said emergency services are on site.
The plane crashed at the end of the runway, she said.
The aerodrome is between the cities of Marseille and Toulon, on the Mediterranean coast.

Sad:


http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/68857-3-americans-die-france-jet-crash-new-post.html

Sad:


http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/68857-3-americans-die-france-jet-crash-new-post.html

Dude you linked this same thread......LOL

A G4 on a ferry flight from Nice airport to the near-by Le Castellet airport, overshot the runway yesterday afternoon, broke apart and the front end came to rest in a pond at the end of runway 13, all 3 crewmembers were killed in the ensuing fire. The plane was operated by Universal Jet Aviation. Prayers and sympathy to the victims, their families and friends.

From Aviation Safety Web site

ASN Aircraft accident Grumman G-1159 Gulfstream IV N823GA Le Castellet Airport (CTT) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120713-0)

It didn't overrun the runaway, it departed off the left side of runway 13 coming to rest abeam the threshold of 31.

The Captain of our KA200 and Citation Ultra is 25... age matters not! Only experience.

It's the types of past experiences that matter most when things go south. That only comes with seasoning. No 25 yo captain, regardless of their competency, has as much to fall back on as a 45 yo captain does.

No 25 yo captain, regardless of their competency, has as much to fall back on as a 45 yo captain does.

What if the 45 year old started flying 3 years ago?

What if the 45 year old started flying 3 years ago?

If so, then he/she resembles any 25 year old jet Captain - lucky and unseasoned - but with more life experience.

RIP to the crew and condolences to their families. Hopefully something can be learned from this accident that will prevent the same mistake from causing more loss of life in the future.

What if the 45 year old started flying 3 years ago?

Ok, that's fine. After we both win the lottery, you can go ahead and stick your own wife and kids in the back of an older chartered King Air with no auto-feather and a 25 yo captain flying it.

I'll stick mine in the same plane with a guy whose been flying King Airs since the other guy was in grammar school.

Dale Popik was a retired AA Captain.


krios@MiamiHerald.com


Two South Florida men died in a plane crash in southern France, family members confirmed Saturday.

According to his son-in-law Marc Serota’s Facebook page, Dale Popik, a 60-year-old from Delray Beach, was the pilot of the Gulfstream G-IV that crashed while landing in Le Castellet, France, on Friday.

And 24-year-old Robert Helton, of Pembroke Pines, was the second man who died in the plane crash. Michael Helton, the father of the younger flight crew member, said that his son was part of a three-person flight crew on board a Gulfstream G-IV. Helton said that the family had little information and declined further comment.

Photos from the crash site display markings similar to a Gulfstream G-IV jet belonging to high-profile South Florida real estate developer Michael Dezer, who developed the Trump Towers in Sunny Isles Beach. Property records show that Dezer-owned company, Jetstar Aviation Services LLC, owns a Gulfstream G-IV.

French news reports identified the downed jet as having the registration number N823GA, which matches a plane owned by Jetstar Aviation Services. Attempts to contact the Dezer family for comment were not successful.

The Associated Press reported the crash on Friday evening, releasing photos of the plane crash. The three member crew also included a 30-year-old woman. Her identity has not been released.

In a statement Saturday, Universal Jet Aviation, a Boca Raton-based aviation company, confirmed that the private jet was part of its fleet. The company said there were no passengers on board. “Our focus at this time is on supporting the families of our crew,” a spokesperson for the company said. The crash is under investigation.

Read more here: Two South Florida men killed in a plane crash in France - Broward - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/14/2895550/pembroke-pines-man-among-three.html?story_link=email_msg#storylink=cpy)

Yeah, they say it usually comes down to currency and training. If you haven't practiced stalls and spins in 30 years, you might want to take that 25 year old who just did them for a few years in a row.

Yeah, they say it usually comes down to currency and training. If you haven't practiced stalls and spins in 30 years, you might want to take that 25 year old who just did them for a few years in a row.

And stalls and spins have "what" to do with this accident?....

Frankly I will take the older experienced crew member over your mythical 25 year old who is still wearing diapers nearly every time.

This topic contradicts itself, older guys acting like babies ... get a grip gentlemen.

That company has had many fatal accidents. Killed 4 in a lear55. Killed 2 in a lear55 25. Killed the line boy putting nitrogen in a tire. I think there was an other one too

Dude you linked this same thread......LOL
Ahh someone merged that out of another thread...I wasn't that stupid!

What is more important right now is:

RIP to the Crew

Condolences to the Family and Friends.

What is less important right now is speculation based on ignorance of the details of the accident.

What is more important right now is:

RIP to the Crew

Condolences to the Family and Friends.

What is less important right now is speculation based on ignorance of the details of the accident.
+1 Well said !


Ally

If so, then he/she resembles any 25 year old jet Captain - lucky and unseasoned - but with more life experience.

RIP to the crew and condolences to their families. Hopefully something can be learned from this accident that will prevent the same mistake from causing more loss of life in the future.

Some of the absolute worst pilots I've flown with were those with "more life experiences" but having recently started flying. In fact, I can think of only one exception to this statement.

The fact is that reaction and adaptability go down over time- better have good in field experience to make up for that, which this CA certainly had.

The scariest FO's I flew with at the regionals were mid-late life career changers. They were nice and trying hard, but meaning well doesn't mean you know well...


The FO was my friend's roommate- RIP to all involved. :(

Some of the absolute worst pilots I've flown with were those with "more life experiences" but having recently started flying. In fact, I can think of only one exception to this statement.

The fact is that reaction and adaptability go down over time- better have good in field experience to make up for that, which this CA certainly had.

The scariest FO's I flew with at the regionals were mid-late life career changers. They were nice and trying hard, but meaning well doesn't mean you know well...


The FO was my friend's roommate- RIP to all involved. :(

Very well said.

RIP to the crew, and condolences to the families.

and the 25 yo Capt. has been flying for over ten years (4 years as a corporate pilot). He started young and his dad was a Capt at a legacy somewhere. He's one of the best pilots I've flown with and carries himself like a much older person. Experience does matter and he has lots of it.

RIP to the crew, and condolences to the families.

and the 25 yo Capt. has been flying for over ten years (4 years as a corporate pilot). He started young and his dad was a Capt at a legacy somewhere. He's one of the best pilots I've flown with and carries himself like a much older person. Experience does matter and he has lots of it.
No offense intended but this is not a "lot" of experience. 4 years in corporate might only be 1000 hours or so of flying, maybe 2000 if they were really busy. But this is all beside the point. Im sure they were experienced enough and very skillful. Landing accidents can happen lightning quick and to the best of us. Could have been a mechanical malfunction as well. I hope we can learn something when we find out what happened. RIP

There are videos on youtube which appear to be of this same crew and accident airplane on previous flights. The FO is flying left seat on some of them.

GoPro Gulfstream GIV Cockpit Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xth2mG768U8&feature=plcp)