Airline Pilot Forums

I'm currently a pilot at 9E waiting to see mgmt's hand like everyone else. My job is safe at the moment but if we lose 50 seaters (100% chance), then I'll be gone in a years time. I'm looking at both SkyWest and GoJets, which are obviously two totally different airlines. With upgrade out of sight at OO and right now 2 years at G7, should I take QOL or chance at upgrade? I'd have to commute for both. Wanting thoughts. Can't wait hear the flame lol.

I'm currently a pilot at 9E waiting to see mgmt's hand like everyone else. My job is safe at the moment but if we lose 50 seaters (100% chance), then I'll be gone in a years time. I'm looking at both SkyWest and GoJets, which are obviously two totally different airlines. With upgrade out of sight at OO and right now 2 years at G7, should I take QOL or chance at upgrade? I'd have to commute for both. Wanting thoughts. Can't wait hear the flame lol.

My money is on GoJetsss getting DCI 900s (old 9E/OH birds) and flying them under their current pays rates while not seeing a new contract for at least another eight years.

GoJets. Skywest is going to lose some too from Delta. Not as many as a BK carrier like 9E, but still. Forget the GoJets slams. GoJets isn't doing anything today that another regional didn't already do in the past (re: expansion at a cost of another airline's flying). A regional is a regional is a regional. Do you really want another 5 years as a FO? A decade on RJ FO pay isn't what this career was designed to be. Why put yourself in that position again?

My money is on GoJetsss getting DCI 900s (old 9E/OH birds) and flying them under their current pays rates while not seeing a new contract for at least another eight years.
He already works at a regional where they never saw a new contract until 6 years after the amendable date.

I'm currently a pilot at 9E waiting to see mgmt's hand like everyone else. My job is safe at the moment but if we lose 50 seaters (100% chance), then I'll be gone in a years time. I'm looking at both SkyWest and GoJets, which are obviously two totally different airlines. With upgrade out of sight at OO and right now 2 years at G7, should I take QOL or chance at upgrade? I'd have to commute for both. Wanting thoughts. Can't wait hear the flame lol.

Nothing is guaranteed at a regional. Gojet is getting contracts right now due to low costs. But things change very quickly in this business. Skywest is the better regional in terms of QOL and the company, but so were Comair, ACA, and Mesaba in their day. Its a crap shoot. Decide what is best for you and go there.

[deleted]

I'd be surprised if gojets gets any 7/900's. I think Delta will use the 7/900's to do trades with the carriers that have the 200's. SKYW, XJT, and PNCL.

I'm in the same place as you. The conclusion I've come to is that it is all the same, everyone is going to lose flying either from D pulling 200s or asshat contracts negotiated below cost dragging the company to bankruptcy (Colgan and the ATL 900s undercut to get flying that way and killed Pinnacle, I'd bet the Gojet is also losing money behind all the smoke and mirrors). May as well chase the upgrade and fly a shiny 700, just don't be too shocked if something happens and it all stops.

I'm currently a pilot at 9E waiting to see mgmt's hand like everyone else. My job is safe at the moment but if we lose 50 seaters (100% chance), then I'll be gone in a years time. I'm looking at both SkyWest and GoJets, which are obviously two totally different airlines. With upgrade out of sight at OO and right now 2 years at G7, should I take QOL or chance at upgrade? I'd have to commute for both. Wanting thoughts. Can't wait hear the flame lol.

Ummm. Don't you have to interview first, receive a job offer/class date and then make a decision??

Apply & interview everywhere and anywhere you want. Then after job offers roll in its time to narrow your choices.

Or am I being "obtuse"?

(or insolent?)

Besides, what do you have to "loose"?!

GoJets. Skywest is going to lose some too from Delta. Not as many as a BK carrier like 9E, but still. Forget the GoJets slams. GoJets isn't doing anything today that another regional didn't already do in the past (re: expansion at a cost of another airline's flying). A regional is a regional is a regional. Do you really want another 5 years as a FO? A decade on RJ FO pay isn't what this career was designed to be. Why put yourself in that position again?

Not picking a fight, but what other airline was started with the sole purpose of circumventing a pilot contract? We all know DCI flying changes hands all the time, but none of the DCI carriers sole existance is based on avoiding a contract. I think deep down people are trying to justify going there in their own minds. Do whatever you want, everyone is well aware of the potential consequences and rewards.

Ummm. Don't you have to interview first, receive a job offer/class date and then make a decision??

Apply & interview everywhere and anywhere you want. Then after job offers roll in its time to narrow your choices.

Or am I being "obtuse"?

(or insolent?)

Besides, what do you have to "loose"?!

He already flies for a regional. If he turns his application in, these airlines will probably both give him interviews immediately. They will probably both hire him as well. There are not a whole lot of pilots out there willing to work for so little money that are actually qualified for these jobs. By qualified, I mean meeting ATP minimums.

He already flies for a regional. If he turns his application in, these airlines will probably both give him interviews immediately. They will probably both hire him as well. There are not a whole lot of pilots out there willing to work for so little money that are actually qualified for these jobs. By qualified, I mean meeting ATP minimums.

Ummm. Yes. I understood that and still stand by my response. Guess I WAS being obtuse!!

:rolleyes:

I'm not going to get into the debate and flamebaiting. The issue to consider is if the carrier is doing any work for Delta. If they are, anticipate that they will lose. Delta's new contract was designed for one specific reason...taking ALL flying from any carrier that feeds Delta and moving it to mainline. This has been an ongoing goal for at least the last two years, when Moak was MEC Chairman. The company and a lawyer from Ford Harrison have been working with him to make it happen. Comair was always planned to be the first. Last weeks memo to Comair employees was about as ominous as it gets. The parking of the 50 seaters took 5,580 seats off the balance sheet.

The math makes it unsustainable. Darn shame...I remember when Comair flew Navajo's and Bandits...now this. Really classy move by the DAL MEC...there's "pilot unity," Delta style. Just like they did with Eastern...took the DC-9's and 727's...and not one pilot...even at the bottom of the list.

Ernie Gann was right.

Not picking a fight, but what other airline was started with the sole purpose of circumventing a pilot contract? We all know DCI flying changes hands all the time, but none of the DCI carriers sole existance is based on avoiding a contract. I think deep down people are trying to justify going there in their own minds. Do whatever you want, everyone is well aware of the potential consequences and rewards.

Wait til all the regionals figure out that they can just start up a new airline every few years and phase out the older one just to eliminate seniority and constantly have pilots flying for 1st and 2nd year pay.

GoJets isn't doing anything today that another regional didn't already do in the past (re: expansion at a cost of another airline's flying).

There's a difference between competing for flying and just completely undercutting someone. Blow jets can't make money on the rates they set with DL.

There's a difference between competing for flying and just completely undercutting someone. Blow jets can't make money on the rates they set with DL.

What's really bad is they undercut themselves, their OWN pilot group. Now that they have this figured out GJ better be able to move on or get ready to bend over once they get a few years under their belts.

I'm currently a pilot at 9E waiting to see mgmt's hand like everyone else. My job is safe at the moment but if we lose 50 seaters (100% chance), then I'll be gone in a years time. I'm looking at both SkyWest and GoJets, which are obviously two totally different airlines. With upgrade out of sight at OO and right now 2 years at G7, should I take QOL or chance at upgrade? I'd have to commute for both. Wanting thoughts. Can't wait hear the flame lol.

When I came to Colgan, upgrades were as little as 18 months (if you weren't hired as a street captain). Well, 18 months became 40, we got a decent contract, and a bankruptcy. Don't count on upgrade or anything else.

GoJets. Skywest is going to lose some too from Delta. Not as many as a BK carrier like 9E, but still. Forget the GoJets slams. GoJets isn't doing anything today that another regional didn't already do in the past (re: expansion at a cost of another airline's flying). A regional is a regional is a regional. Do you really want another 5 years as a FO? A decade on RJ FO pay isn't what this career was designed to be. Why put yourself in that position again?

Not picking a fight, but what other airline was started with the sole purpose of circumventing a pilot contract? We all know DCI flying changes hands all the time, but none of the DCI carriers sole existance is based on avoiding a contract. I think deep down people are trying to justify going there in their own minds. Do whatever you want, everyone is well aware of the potential consequences and rewards.

Freedom Airlines did it to Mesa

As they say, don't chase an upgrade. Go somewhere that you'll be happy to be at if you get stuck a few years. I've been at OO for over a year and am pretty happy to be here so far.

Regarding Freedom Airlines: The guys at Mesa Airlines decided not to call JO's bluff after he went into a meeting and told the union he would move every airplane Mesa had over to Freedom if they didn't sign one of the worst contracts ever. So they bent over and took terrible pay and work rules to get a contract that said all Mesa flying will be done by Mesa pilots.

TSA called the bluff and found out the company wasn't bluffing.

There's a difference between competing for flying and just completely undercutting someone. Blow jets can't make money on the rates they set with DL.

Uh, hello? What do you think Pinnacle has done? Those ATL -900s were all underbid, it's the only reason Delta gave that contract to Pinnacle. It was unprofitable, period. And you can't say for fact that Gojets isn't making money on the rate they set with Delta. You wouldn't know. GoJets is super junior with one of the lowest longevity pilot group in the regional industry.

Not picking a fight, but what other airline was started with the sole purpose of circumventing a pilot contract? We all know DCI flying changes hands all the time, but none of the DCI carriers sole existance is based on avoiding a contract. I think deep down people are trying to justify going there in their own minds. Do whatever you want, everyone is well aware of the potential consequences and rewards.
Freedom was, initially. It took a crap contract acceptance to bring them back in to the Mesa Air Group.

Look, the bottom line is ever since deregulation, and with competition, the unions have slowly lost their leverage. Pricing, economy, and competition will always drive the contractual moves.

TSA wanted to fly the bigger RJs for a certain wage, and TSA ALPA told Hulas 'No.' That's fine, but without leverage, they called a bluff, and lost. GoJets was formed. At one point, GoJets was hiring while TSA was displacing and downgrading.

Lets extend that to a carrier you and I both know well. Pinnacle Inc was doing flying as an ALPA carrier. Management wanted a second option, a B scale, another platform to use against us, giving them leverage. So they went out and bought Colgan - a non-ALPA airline. Then they grew Colgan massively while displacing and downgrading Pinnacle pilots. In both cases, management was able to successfully circumvent ALPA and its effectiveness.

Today, in 2012, GoJets is no longer different than the average regional airline. Certainly, your chances of employment in the future will not be hindered.... not until a TSA pilot makes it to the hiring board of a legacy airline. Most major airline pilots and major HR departments don't even care about the regional airline squabbles.

There's a difference between competing for flying and just completely undercutting someone. Blow jets can't make money on the rates they set with DL.

How do you know? Gojets and Trans States are privately held and publish no reports on the company's financial condition. The only people who know this are Hulas and the accountants that work for him.

Regarding Freedom Airlines: The guys at Mesa Airlines decided not to call JO's bluff after he went into a meeting and told the union he would move every airplane Mesa had over to Freedom if they didn't sign one of the worst contracts ever. So they bent over and took terrible pay and work rules to get a contract that said all Mesa flying will be done by Mesa pilots.

TSA called the bluff and found out the company wasn't bluffing.

On the money. Everyone said the Mesa guys were wh**es, lowered the bar, and worse for caving to JO and taking a crap contract to get all the flying on one list, Gojet guys were scabs and worse for working at Gojet because Hulas carried out his threat to keep the flying seperate. It would be comical if it weren't so sad. The heydey of the regional airlines as good places to work are quickly coming to an end. Mainline airlines have the regionals where they want them and can plug them in and out based on thier costs. To play the game, you have to understand the game, and most pilots and unions are so far behind the power curve on this it is comical.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Finally, at least two guys that understand the game being played.

All of those that like to make a sport out of bashing GoJet need to comprehend what they are saying. All the temper tantrums make you sound like whining kids.

To the original poster. If we could get back to the original question for at least one post. When I was furloughed from Mesa in 2010 I decided to stand on my moral high horse and not "lower the bar" or "be a scab" and go to Go Jet while lot's of my Mesa friends did. Since then I have had four jobs including taking contracts outside the US just to pay my bills. I am currently back to first year pay again and hoping this one lasts longer than my previous record of six months. My Go Jet friends on the other hand have held a line since the second or third month they were hired and have enjoyed good job security and a steady paycheck. Oh and they are all captains now. Something I have still yet to achieve. Take it for what it's worth, your mileage may vary blah blah blah. I can't help but feel I would have been better off had I joined them.

Just out of curiosity what kind of flight benefits do you get over at g7?

Just out of curiosity what kind of flight benefits do you get over at g7?


I dunno, but they definitely don't involve jumpseats.

I dunno, but they definitely don't involve jumpseats.

It depends on which partner you fly for.

ORD pilots have UAL benefits (yourself, spouse, parents, children, and an additional friend).

STL can use either UAL or delta.

RDU only flies for delta, so that is their only option.

I Jumpsat on Saturday and Sunday....so there ya go.

At OO you get Delta, United Airways and Alaska.

At OO you get Delta, United Airways and Alaska.

It wasn't a survey. He just asked what the flight benefits were at G7...

I appreciate everyone's input. There is a lot still to change. Comair's fate is to be determined within the next two weeks. Pinnacle's fate is at the hands of daddy D and we all know how that usually goes. I am a previous XJ'er, but didn't go through the 04 BK. Most of the guys that stayed or got furloughed and took the recall, were captains in 2-3 years time. OO and TSA both have a plan with the MRJs they ordered (still don't know why they ordered them.) But that's better than nothing.

I had that problem. I picked gojet due to republic issue with strike and I think commuting would be easier at gojet
Are you working for gojet yet? If you are do you like it? Shuttle was my choice due to the lga base but looks like I won't even be able to get it right out of training.