Airline Pilot Forums

This is frickin' sick.

Mass shooting at Batman screening in Aurora, Colo.; At least 12 dead, dozens more wounded - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57476379/mass-shooting-at-batman-screening-in-aurora-colo.-at-least-12-dead-dozens-more-wounded/)

:mad:

Horrible. A friend lost her daughter and another just barely made it out.

Probably wouldn't have been as terrible or even happened if concealed carry weapons were not prohibited in theatres. :mad:

Disgusting.

Probably wouldn't have been as terrible or even happened if concealed carry weapons were not prohibited in theatres. :mad:
You can't carry in CO theatres? Wow.

the MFer will rot in jail for the rest of his life when they ought to just put bullet in his head... how many millions of dollars will this low life now cost the state of CO and federal govt over the next 60 years....

Horrible news. I was wondering the same thing; if a concealed weapons permit guy had been there many lives may have been saved.

the MFer will rot in jail for the rest of his life when they ought to just put bullet in his head... how many millions of dollars will this low life now cost the state of CO and federal govt over the next 60 years....

A bullet in his skull is way too nice. He should be forced to run a gamut of Saw-like tortures before they finally have him hung, drawn, and quartered.

the MFer will rot in jail for the rest of his life when they ought to just put bullet in his head... how many millions of dollars will this low life now cost the state of CO and federal govt over the next 60 years....


Amen, Herc, amen.
Can't wait to hear his lawyer proclaim he's "insane." :mad:

the MFer will rot in jail for the rest of his life when they ought to just put bullet in his head... how many millions of dollars will this low life now cost the state of CO and federal govt over the next 60 years....
Couldn't agree more. F this guy and let the Mexican Mafia use him as target practice. It's Virginia Tech all over again, another gutless coward with a gun. I emphasize GUTLESS!:confused:

Cinnamark, owner of the theatre, has a no firearms policy...even for those legally carrying via CCW. I hope they see some liability out of this. Just one CCW could have saved a lot of lives.

Man....can't even go to the movies with out worrying about some nut job shooting up the place....

Cinnamark, owner of the theatre, has a no firearms policy...even for those legally carrying via CCW. I hope they see some liability out of this. Just one CCW could have saved a lot of lives.

Wait... You mean to tell me this homicidal shooter didn't pay attention to the no firearms sign? What?? I'm shocked!

I have never understood the point of restricting law abiding citizens that would actually follow the rules, from legally carrying handguns into an establishment. It is one of the most illogical things I've ever come across.

Cinnamark, owner of the theatre, has a no firearms policy...even for those legally carrying via CCW. I hope they see some liability out of this. Just one CCW could have saved a lot of lives.

Probably wont after the media goes after guns.

The guy was in full tactical gear with bullet proof vest and helmet. A CCW might have been ineffective and ended in death.

The guy was in full tactical gear with bullet proof vest and helmet. A CCW might have been ineffective and ended in death.

It's the premise though.

The guy walked into a theatre where firearms are prohibited.

Now, would he have done the same if he knew that everyone in the theatre was armed?

His quick and silent surrender with no shots fired on police makes it clear that he had no desire to die or commit suicide, he wants attention. Therefore, walking into a theatre full of armed people would have not served his goal.

The guy was in full tactical gear with bullet proof vest and helmet. A CCW might have been ineffective and ended in death.

Sir, I think you have a good case for a full refund from the last school you attended.

It's the premise though.

The guy walked into a theatre where firearms are prohibited.

Now, would he have done the same if he knew that everyone in the theatre was armed?

His quick and silent surrender with no shots fired on police makes it clear that he had no desire to die or commit suicide, he wants attention. Therefore, walking into a theatre full of armed people would have not served his goal.

From a preventative standpoint, I completely agree. That's why I enjoy living in Oregon where we can open carry, and with a CCW, can open carry almost anywhere we want.

The guy was in full tactical gear with bullet proof vest and helmet. A CCW might have been ineffective and ended in death.

It would have slowed him down for sure, however with his gear you would have likely drawn his attention and unless you put one through his grape you would likely become a victim. I doubt it was a bullet proof helmet. This is one reason that if you are going to exercise your rights to carry then you should be very good with your weapon. Of course no one says you have to be the hero. You could try your best to get away. That is a split second decision that you really have to go with instinct.

In the state where I live you can carry into an establishment (except for bars and government buildings) even if there is a no weapons sign. If the business management finds out you are carrying then they can ask you to leave and you must oblige or you are trespassing but if they don't know then you aren't breaking any laws. So basically if the movie theatre was in my state then you could carry in even though it is posted that you cannot. Hard to say whether or not it would have made a difference. From all initial reports this was a thought out and planned attack. In fact I think the police did a hell of a job by getting him before he did even more damage. There were likely several hundred or more in that theatre.

Sir, I think you have a good case for a full refund from the last school you attended.

Why do you have such a hard-on for me? Do I need to think about open carrying on this forum, too?

I enjoy my constitutional right to bear arms, but sometimes you need to think things through before you pull your piece and unload into center mass. The guy had full tactical gear. You may have been able to pull off a knee or hand shot, but it was dark, there were people screaming and running; and oh yeah, the gunman had an AK-47.

I think the best chance might have been during his reloads, but even then it would have been a tough shot.

It would have slowed him down for sure, however with his gear you would have likely drawn his attention and unless you put one through his grape you would likely become a victim. I doubt it was a bullet proof helmet. This is one reason that if you are going to exercise your rights to carry then you should be very good with your weapon. Of course no one says you have to be the hero. You could try your best to get away. That is a split second decision that you really have to go with instinct.

In the state where I live you can carry into an establishment (except for bars and government buildings) even if there is a no weapons sign. If the business management finds out you are carrying then they can ask you to leave and you must oblige or you are trespassing but if they don't know then you aren't breaking any laws. So basically if the movie theatre was in my state then you could carry in even though it is posted that you cannot. Hard to say whether or not it would have made a difference. From all initial reports this was a thought out and planned attack. In fact I think the police did a hell of a job by getting him before he did even more damage. There were likely several hundred or more in that theatre.

I think you misread my quote... I was saying that the chance of becoming another victim was pretty high. And helmets don't necessarily have to be bullet proof - they are rounded to reduce penetration.

And the cops arrived on scene to see the gunman standing at his car, essentially waiting to be arrested (according to the most recent reports) - we can not rely on cops to defend ourselves.

Probably wouldn't have been as terrible or even happened if concealed carry weapons were not prohibited in theatres. :mad:

What sucks is that on a ton of other forums throughout this country, someone is saying, "Would NEVER have happened if guns were prohibited in this country! Down with guns!"

I'll never understand it...

Good discussion and what many would feel to be rightful sentiments, but when the topic starts to turn towards sensitive issues (and we all know what is likely to be a hot topic in the coming days), let's remember that TOS regarding politically motivated posts. Thanks.

USMCFLYR

I think you misread my quote... I was saying that the chance of becoming another victim was pretty high. And helmets don't necessarily have to be bullet proof - they are rounded to reduce penetration.

And the cops arrived on scene to see the gunman standing at his car, essentially waiting to be arrested (according to the most recent reports) - we can not rely on cops to defend ourselves.

I was actually agreeing with you. Average shooter probably can't make that shot in well lit range scenario. Very difficult in actual situation. Extremely difficult in dark theatre with mass chaos. The reason I said slow him down is that we really don't know how he would have reacted if the bullets started flying at him. He may have well retreated or he may have turned that AK right at you and that could be that.

In the end there is no way to say what could have happened. We are only learning what happened and how to better prepare ourselves if this ever happened again.

-UA

I was actually agreeing with you. Average shooter probably can't make that shot in well lit range scenario. Very difficult in actual situation. Extremely difficult in dark theatre with mass chaos. The reason I said slow him down is that we really don't know how he would have reacted if the bullets started flying at him. He may have well retreated or he may have turned that AK right at you and that could be that.

In the end there is no way to say what could have happened. We are only learning what happened and how to better prepare ourselves if this ever happened again.

-UA

Well said, UA.

Did he have a AR or AK?

Did he have a AR or AK?

Initial reports stated AK-47, but this is probably newscasters making up bogus information until solid facts can come in.

How can you folks be sure, at this point, that no one else in the theatre had a weapon? Also, in chaos, I think a patron with a gun would have had a slim chance at hitting the shooter in the dark with tear gas floating. I don't buy that allowing guns into a movie legally would have prevented this. It's a poor argument for looser ccw laws.
This is coming from a gun owner.

To those who think guns should be prohibited...

Look what happened in Norway not too long ago. Man kills a hundred kids in a nation that outlaws firearms. The point is, crazies like this one will get their hands on weapons to do harm to others no matter what the laws are. Concealed carry permits at least make a lot of criminals think twice and protect the law-abiding citizens of this nation.

And I don't believe they will ever take our firearms away. I don't believe they can at this point. There would be a real-deal revolution if they tried.

To those who think guns should be prohibited...

Look what happened in Norway not too long ago. Man kills a hundred kids in a nation that outlaws firearms. The point is, crazies like this one will get their hands on weapons to do harm to others no matter what the laws are. Concealed carry permits at least make a lot of criminals think twice and protect the law-abiding citizens of this nation.

And I don't believe they will ever take our firearms away. I don't believe they can at this point. There would be a real-deal revolution if they tried.

If someone wants to rob, do physical harm, or kill you, they will most likely approach it with the notion that you do have a gun. Guns aren't the deterrent most of you are making it seem. Most crimes don't go down the way you see it on the "Dumbest Criminal" shows.

If someone wants to rob, do physical harm, or kill you, they will most likely approach it with the notion that you do have a gun. Guns aren't the deterrent most of you are making it seem. Most crimes don't go down the way you see it on the "Dumbest Criminal" shows.

That would explain why cops and the military tend to favor them.

The best deterrent is avoidance, awareness and understanding your current situation. Sometimes all of our careful actions fail. This then becomes a reaction, long past the point of deterrence. Guns offer no deterrence at all to people who cannot see them.

It is also difficult to prepare for stark raving insanity.

If someone wants to rob, do physical harm, or kill you, they will most likely approach it with the notion that you do have a gun.

Huh? I wasn't aware this was a bygone conclusion of your common criminal.

Strange that anyone would take 3-month old baby or six year-old kid to a midnight movie screening....

Strange that anyone would take 3-month old baby or six year-old kid to a midnight movie screening....

Need a license to drive a car, but nothing to be a parent:eek:

All four of his weapons were bought legally.
2 Glocks
1 Shotgun
1 Assult Riffle

Strange that anyone would take 3-month old baby or six year-old kid to a midnight movie screening....

This is a very myopic comment from someone in the aviation industry. How do you not realize many people aren't on 9-to-5 schedules?

When my wife and I had our first child, she stayed home and I worked copious evening shifts, so it was quite common for all of us to be out and about at midnight.

It's summer, so the school-age kids don't have anywhere to be in the morning.

No matter how insane some people may be, they still understand that their best odds are against a group of innocent, unarmed people
in an enclosed area.

Police are there to clean up the mess, take notes and comment on the sad state of the human condition. That isn't going to help you during such an event.

Huh? I wasn't aware this was a bygone conclusion of your common criminal.


I didn't say all. I said most. That opinion is based on multiple conversations with many family and friends that happen to be in law enforcement.

All four of his weapons were bought legally.
2 Glocks
1 Shotgun
1 Assult Riffle

I am ready to outlaw crazy whenever you are, but I am not ready to ban cars over a few drunk/drugged drivers.

It is looking like the shooter had a long history with OWS and Black Bloc.

If someone wants to rob, do physical harm, or kill you, they will most likely approach it with the notion that you do have a gun. Guns aren't the deterrent most of you are making it seem.
As someone who has, and has used, a CHL, I can tell you, they're a very effective deterrent.

I carry everywhere I am legally permitted to. I keep myself up to date on the law of the state I live in, and the states I travel to where I can legally carry. I pay attention to my surroundings, and I regularly go to the range to pop some paper. A smart, well-qualified, legal gun owner will have the upper hand over a psychotic guy who grabs his gun and walks into the street.

Please don't lump CHL/CCW holders in with 'some gun owner' like the mainstream media does.


Similarly...here's a lovely story blaming Batman and action movies full of violence for his acts...from Yahoo (surprisingly :rolleyes: ):
Was James Holmes, Suspected Aurora Shooter, Inspired by Batman? - Yahoo! (http://gma.yahoo.com/james-holmes-suspected-aurora-shooter-inspired-batman-182624012--abc-news-movies.html)

I am ready to outlaw crazy whenever you are, but I am not ready to ban cars over a few drunk/drugged drivers.

Look, nowhere did I say outlaw them. I own a gun. What I said in my original post was that this tragedy is not a strong case for looser ccw laws. No one here knows for sure if no one else in that theatre had a gun. He did expect folks to have guns which is probably why he wore the vest. He gave up to the cops without a gun exchange.

Look, nowhere did I say outlaw them. I own a gun. What I said in my original post was that this tragedy is not a strong case for looser ccw laws. No one here knows for sure if no one else in that theatre had a gun. He did expect folks to have guns which is probably why he wore the vest. He gave up to the cops without a gun exchange.

If we deny the right of self defense to the smallest minority, the individual, then we deny it to a large swath of the public. There is nothing "loose" about CCW laws, and CCW holders are the most law abiding group of people in the US.

This event had nothing to do with CCW, and everything to do with a complete lunatic.

This event had nothing to do with CCW, and everything to do with a complete lunatic.

I agree. If you go back and read the thread in order you will see that I replied to folks who insinuated that this incident would have turned out different if folks were allowed to take firearms into a movie theatre legally.

Thoughts and prayers to the victims and families from this sense less act.

The cultural rot in our country shows its ugly head again.... may those who died be forever in peace.

The evil in our midst is astounding, and it makes me mad. Too bad nobody else in the movie theater was toting a firearm.

What a senseless tragedy ,god bless them and the families of all involved .
'Though we loose the ones that we love may we take comfort in knowing that they will forever be in our hearts .'



Ally

A few posts ago I asked the forum members to be respectful of the topic at hand and not to bring political topics onto the thread. People are obviously passionate about their stance on gun rights - a political hot potato. Therefore - posts that might lead to discussions of such or arguments for or against are either flamebait and/or political.

Let's try and get this thread away from such topics. If the forum members that it is impossible to discuss such as issue without it coming down to such topics then I can close the thread and the participants who wish to discuss such topics can find any number of political forums.

USMCFLYR

I don't buy that allowing guns into a movie legally would have prevented this. It's a poor argument for looser ccw laws. This is coming from a gun owner.

The first open carry guy to arrive on the scene in Tucson when Giffords got shot in the head almost dispatched the man who wrestled the Glock away from Loughner and that happened in broad daylight let alone a dark, smokey theater.

The NRA has fought tooth and nail against any kind of background checks to weed out ex felons, drug abusers or the mentally incompetent. They have fought for the sale of automatic/semi automatic phallic symbols with large capacity magazines - weapons that were specifically designed for war and taking out a lot of people, not hunting.

.

The first open carry guy to arrive on the scene in Tucson when Giffords got shot in the head almost dispatched the man who wrestled the Glock away from Loughner and that happened in broad daylight let alone a dark, smokey theater.

The NRA has fought tooth and nail against any kind of background checks to weed out ex felons, drug abusers or the mentally incompetent. They have fought for the sale of automatic/semi automatic phallic symbols with large capacity magazines - weapons that were specifically designed for war and taking out a lot of people, not hunting.

.

I guess close is good enough if we are talking horseshoes hand grenades and gun control. I notice you used the word "almost" there skipper.

Famous quotes in history revised.
I almost had sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski.

As crazy as this guy was we can be thankful he at least told authorities about the booby trapped apartment. Many more lives could have been lost had police just barged right in. Silver linings, right?

As crazy as this guy was we can be thankful he at least told authorities about the booby trapped apartment. Many more lives could have been lost had police just barged right in. Silver linings, right?
Did he tell them? For some reason I thought the first officer who got there noticed them and brought in the bomb squad, but if you saw otherwise I'm glad to be wrong.

Figured he'd want them to go busting in and level the complex.

several news reports said he told them after he was arrested but who knows, that might have been eroneous reporting. I'm glad nobody else got hurt either way.

I read a report that him told them about the apartment and then the police viewed the inside of the place using a ladder truck from the fire department. At that report - a day or so later - they still had not even entered the apartment.

USMCFLYR

I guess close is good enough if we are talking horseshoes hand grenades and gun control. I notice you used the word "almost" there skipper.

The real hero of Tucson was unarmed when he manhandled the gun away from Loughner. Subsequently, the open carry Wyatt Earp saw him standing there with a Glock in his hand and described himself later as "lucky" for not shooting, putting a
point on exactly how close the actual hero came to being the victim of friendly fire.

This happened in daylight - not a darkened theater where tear gas canisters had
been deployed.

.

Thoughts and prayers with the families...

How do we protect our families and ourselves?

It is also difficult to prepare for stark raving insanity.

No matter how insane some people may be, they still understand that their best odds are against a group of innocent, unarmed people in an enclosed area.

Good points Jungle. When thugs walk into a convenience store to rob it while armed, the weapon is for intimidation. Look at all the youtube vids of thugs walking in, the proprietor or somebody else takes action with a firearm or quick reaction, and the thugs flee. THe thugs had NO intention of taking lives. And if they do shoot back, it's in the "gansta'" style sideways postion, while fleeing, and the only chance they have of hitting the target is by pure luck.

Whereas this person, like other incidents, had ALREADY made the decions that he was going to take lives. Because as you pointed out, insanity and lunacy. Which raises the point that IF a ccw person was present and took action, the chances of him dropping his weapon and fleeing are non existant. A gun shot or rounds flying by him probably would not have deterred him. He was hell bent and on a mission.

Taking us to the nest point.......

Average shooter probably can't make that shot in well lit range scenario. Very difficult in actual situation. Extremely difficult in dark theatre with mass chaos. The reason I said slow him down is that we really don't know how he would have reacted if the bullets started flying at him. He may have well retreated or he may have turned that AK right at you and that could be that.

In the end there is no way to say what could have happened. We are only learning what happened and how to better prepare ourselves if this ever happened again.

-UA

Yep, see the above. Who REALLY knows what would have happened? But if you've ever seen the footage from the L.A. bank robbery years ago, it plays into your initial points. That was in broad day light, NOT a dark theatre. There was no tear gas or whatever else, there was no crowd of people causing confusion in a confined area. The people shooting at bank robbers were trained police officers. They STILL didn't drop they're weapons and try to run. They simply fought back.

The real hero of Tucson was unarmed when he manhandled the gun away from Loughner. Subsequently, the open carry Wyatt Earp saw him standing there with a Glock in his hand and described himself later as "lucky" for not shooting, putting a
point on exactly how close the actual hero came to being the victim of friendly fire.

This happened in daylight - not a darkened theater where tear gas canisters had
been deployed.

.

So do you have a point. Here is mine, I'll bet he couldnt have afforded all the ammo he bought if not for the pell grants and guvmint student loans. If we are going off in tangents I say let us really go for it.

Thoughts and prayers with the families...

How do we protect our families and ourselves?

Get your Concealed carry permit, practice 2+ times a month. After following the stories on the internet i was expecting a lot of "BAN GUNS" comments but now i think people realize the only way to stop this is being armed trained and prepared.


Really good video on concealed carry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8OK4WdoW0

Get your Concealed carry permit, practice 2+ times a month. After following the stories on the internet i was expecting a lot of "BAN GUNS" comments but now i think people realize the only way to stop this is being armed trained and prepared.


Really good video on concealed carry.
"The Concealed Carry Protocol" by Nutnfancy - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8OK4WdoW0)

What would you have done to "stop this" if you were there?