Airline Pilot Forums

Shame on us! Now the Head master needs to see a doctors excuse. It's affecting the operation. Right out of the play book. I suspect with all the weather that the number of pilots that have timed out is at an all time high....because PBS loves to build close to 30 in 7. So...now if I don't feel well....I gotta spend a $15 co-pay for a Jr. High doctors excuse......so be it. :(

Did the CAL side just begin requiring a note or has it been in play for a while?

Just came out today. And now we dance.

We are experiencing an unprecedented number of pilot sick calls far exceeding any level we have seen before. This is directly affecting the reliability of our operation and is impacting other pilots in our group who are called upon to cover these flights.

We understand that there are times when illness prevents you from operating an aircraft, and we want you to utilize your sick bank as necessary to protect these instances. However if you are well enough to fly we need you in your role as a professional airline pilot.

Effective immediately, if you do call in sick we will be requiring that a written statement from an accredited and licensed healthcare professional whose expertise is appropriate to your condition be provided to your Chief Pilot confirming that you were, and, if appropriate, continue to be unable to perform your regular duties.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

Steve Arnold
System Chief Pilot



I find nothing in the CAL attendance and reliability policy that requires this unless the calls trigger the guidelines as outlined in the policy.


Logon to view;

CCS>OTHER>MY COAIR>FLIGHTOPERATIONS>COMMUNICATIONS>E-DOCUMENTS>Flight Operations Attendance and Reliability Program - Update 11/3/2003

Here's a novel idea. Stop flying your reserves to FAR max, and hire more! :mad:

VJM must be getting expensive.

This is the first step in trying enjoin the UAL TRO to include CAL as well..........nice.

Strive for us.

I think we all know who's to blame for the demise of the operation.

And the one trick pony performs again..Standby for the press release.

I suspect the 94% who voted 99% in favor of a strike just went to 100%/100%.

I suspect the 94% who voted 99% in favor of a strike just went to 100%/100%.
After what we have all been through in the past 11 years, if the lost sheep didn't vote yes for a strike authorization, they never will. Never.

This is the exact same letter sent last month to the UAL side from Bo E. Apparently the author is the same person.

Just get an appointment with Dr. Summeroff.

I thought it was a medical records privacy thing protected by HIPPA law that they cannot ask to see it. So get a note and tell them they cannot look at it. ALPA, where are you on this one?

All the note has say is that patient xyz is under my care and unable to work.

Well, CAL allowed this little gem in their contract:

A pilot will
not be required to advise Scheduling as to the nature of his Sickness, but may be required to
so advise his Chief Pilot.

Don't see the issue here.... It is so easy to get a note... And the more notes that are submitted the worse it makes Jeff's argument supporting an injunction!! Ultimately this will just make managements case worse....proof of no sick out.
I totally agree it is absurd/maybe illegal to request the note....but hey we have tolerated so much worse and this will just help prove its Jeff, not the pilots, causing an unhealthy working environment creating the issue.

All the note has say is that patient xyz is under my care and unable to work.
My note simply states that I was seen at the office and dated...period.

My note simply states that I was seen at the office and dated...period.
That will do it as well.

Well, CAL allowed this little gem in their contract:

The CAL CBA also delineates a very narrow window of access by the Chief Pilots Office in asking for a note, as spelled out in today's union response:



July 22, 2012


Yesterday, management issued a CCS message on the topic of sick leave that blatantly violates our collective bargaining agreement. This is another in a series of feeble management attempts to place blame on the pilot group for their own mismanagement and poor decisions that have left our airline significantly understaffed during the busiest summer flying months.
To be clear, under our contract, management can only require a pilot to provide a written statement from an accredited and licensed healthcare professional if they have reasonable cause to believe that an individual pilot has misused sick leave or the absence has occurred in conjunction with his or her vacation or a holiday period as defined in the CBA.

In contrast, the CCS message suggests such a statement based entirely on unsubstantiated allegations about the sick leave usage of the pilot group as a whole, not of individual pilots. This blanket requirement that each and every pilot who calls in sick provide a written statement to the Chief Pilot from an accredited and licensed healthcare professional whose expertise is appropriate to your condition, confirming that you were, and, if appropriate, continue to be unable to perform your regular duties is not only insulting to the professionalism of our pilot group, but a clear violation of Section 14, Part 4 of our CBA.

The contract’s requirement to evaluate each individual’s sick call for a reasonable cause is clearly not met by unsubstantiated allegations regarding sick leave levels of the pilot group as a whole. Accordingly, there can be no requirement that you provide a statement, absent a direct and individual request from the Company. If you are asked to provide such a statement, please request the precise nature of the reasonable cause that made them believe that you have misused sick leave or that the absence has occurred in conjunction with a vacation period or holiday period. Should management continue down this path, we will need this information to pursue avenues to cease and remedy this blatant violation of our contract. In addition, if you are required by management to obtain such a statement from a physician, please keep the receipt and submit it for reimbursement from the Company.

In the meantime, please continue to be the professional pilots you are. If you are well enough to fly, report for duty. The CAL MEC asks you not to allow your feelings about this CCS message to interfere with your professionalism - whether by unnecessarily calling in sick or fatigued, or, when at work, changing your normal way of operating in the hopes that this will put pressure on the Company. We must and will maintain our ethics even when management discards theirs.

Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman

Well, CAL allowed this little gem in their contract:

"A pilot will not be required to advise Scheduling as to the nature of his Sickness, but may be required to
so advise his Chief Pilot".
Yeah...Plain and simple, there's a 'lil something called HIPAA Law requirements/protections. Those protections would 'trump' that of the CAL-CBA when having to deal with 'going into detail' (beyond the noted documentation of your visit) with the CPO regarding specific questioning to the nature of a 'sick call', or visits to your health care provider.

BTW....That's NOT my 'opinion', that is a fact when I addressed that point of topic with an Attorney who happens to specialize in Labor Law.

If the Company plans to play the 'game' you cite above, they are choosing to tread on a very slippery slop if they wish to broach this course of action....Choice is theirs.

^^^ JP's letter above ^^^ covers the 'expected' steps of action from any CAL Pilot who is confronted with such questioning.

This is the exact same letter sent last month to the UAL side from Bo E. Apparently the author is the same person.
^^^^^ Out of curiosity, what was Jay Hepner's public response when his Pilot Group received such 'warning' that you mentioned?? ^^^^^

When reading the volley that Pierce "penned" above, I am fairly confident that Steve Arnold's (AKA "Fred Abbott's" words) threats will be left with "less bark", and "NO bite" when the cited CBA provisions/actions are envoked, an other council gets involved when the Company begins it's saber rattling.

As IAH's-LEC Capt says...."Stay Safe, Fly Safe".

Yeah...Plain and simple, there's a 'lil something called HIPAA Law requirements/protections. Those protections would 'trump' that of the CAL-CBA when having to deal with 'going into detail' (beyond the noted documentation of your visit) with the CPO regarding specific questioning to the nature of a 'sick call', or visits to your health care provider.

BTW....That's NOT my 'opinion', that is a fact when I addressed that point of topic with an Attorney who happens to specialize in Labor Law.

If the Company plans to play the 'game' you cite above, they are choosing to tread on a very slippery slop if they wish to broach this course of action....Choice is theirs.

^^^ JP's letter above ^^^ covers the 'expected' steps of action from any CAL Pilot who is confronted with such questioning.


^^^^^ Out of curiosity, what was Jay Hepner's public response when his Pilot Group received such 'warning' that you mentioned?? ^^^^^

When reading the volley that Pierce "penned" above, I am fairly confident that Steve Arnold's (AKA "Fred Abbott's" words) threats will be left with "less bark", and "NO bite" when the cited CBA provisions/actions are envoked, an other council gets involved when the Company begins it's saber rattling.

As IAH's-LEC Capt says...."Stay Safe, Fly Safe".

Didn't save it, but similar idea. Our Jay gave us a form to fill out and fax to UAL medical. It was vague and only gave the most basic required information. He also said that the grievance process was underway.

RUMOR... I heard that UAL medical got totally swamped by the forms and couldn't keep up. The sick leave letter requirement was rescinded shortly thereafter with the company saying sick leave levels had returned to a more "normal" state

The worst part about this message is not the content, but the fact that Phuggin Phred has successfully inserted his ancient hand in Steve Arnold's *bum* and is now working him like a puppet. Arnold held off for quite a while, but in the end he has fallen to the dark side,,, so Steve- FUPM too.

Heppner and local council said don't fly sick. Local chief pilot basically ignored Bo's letter.

The worst part about this message is not the content, but the fact that Phuggin Phred has successfully inserted his ancient hand in Steve Arnold's *bum* and is now working him like a puppet. Arnold held off for quite a while, but in the end he has fallen to the dark side,,, so Steve- FUPM too.
When I read "Lil Stevie's" CCS message, that's exactly what I was thinking.....each and every bit.

Arnold pined for that position, thus he resides in the same "jackel-bin" as Fred Abbott, Dave Zullo, and the former trail blazers......especially Tom Stivala.

The worst part about this message is not the content, but the fact that Phuggin Phred has successfully inserted his ancient hand in Steve Arnold's *bum* and is now working him like a puppet. Arnold held off for quite a while, but in the end he has fallen to the dark side,,, so Steve- FUPM too.

Yep. Damn shame. If they can keep MW from following suit, there will be at least one respectable CP left on the CAL side.

This " career" has gotten so embarrassing.
Treated like 8 year olds, means people will act like it.
Treat people like adults and professionals and they will act like it.
United is gone, welcome to Continental.

This " career" has gotten so embarrassing.
Treated like 8 year olds, means people will act like it.
Treat people like adults and professionals and they will act like it.
United is gone, welcome to Continental.

???????

United has been treating us like 8 year olds for as long as I can remember. Don't forget that the "sick leave note required" was a little gem UAL management threw at our furloughed brothers and sisters LONG before the merger.

You're both right. It was worse than it had been 10 years ago. But lately its much worse.

I agree with 47dog, "Treated like 8 year olds, means people will act like it"

Has anyone noticed the amount of threatening boilerplate buried within skynet? At the end of many sections, they were compelled to add a few sentences of threatening and conditional statements. Pathetic way to treat your employees if you ask me.

Has anyone noticed the amount of threatening boilerplate buried within skynet? At the end of many sections, they were compelled to add a few sentences of threatening and conditional statements. Pathetic way to treat your employees if you ask me.


The old saying goes: Continental is a huge Law Firm with a ridiculously large flight department.

Just insert UCH.

liquid

More like.....
The new saying goes:UCH is a huge I.T. Firm with a ridiculously large flight department.

......and one of poor-form at that.

This " career" has gotten so embarrassing.
Treated like 8 year olds, means people will act like it.
Treat people like adults and professionals and they will act like it.
United is gone, welcome to Continental.

Continental is gone, welcome to United. It was only a couple years ago when CAL was on top of all of them. What changed? ;)

Continental is gone, welcome to United.
Per the "new united" demo, I believe the "savior" uttered:
"You will see a number of changes in the months ahead, and I think you'll like them." (:28 mark)

Still waiting.....What a joke.

October 1, 2010 777 Safety Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdI7kA2YqTw)

Per the "new united" demo, I believe the "savior" uttered:
"You will see a number of changes in the months ahead, and I think you'll like them." (:28 mark)

Still waiting.....What a joke.

October 1, 2010 777 Safety Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdI7kA2YqTw)

He meant the foam soap.:D

He meant the foam soap.:D
Duly noted.....I have been seeing more/more those "new" Int'l White Trash Bags (no pun intended) too. Must say, those are great/new addition for filing those never ending updates for that manual called, The "WOM".

Per the "new united" demo, I believe the "savior" uttered:
"You will see a number of changes in the months ahead, and I think you'll like them." (:28 mark)

Still waiting.....What a joke.

October 1, 2010 777 Safety Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdI7kA2YqTw)

I prefer this one, myself.

Developing the Right Culture - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQUVULG9q4)

I prefer this one, myself.

Developing the Right Culture - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQUVULG9q4)
The first sentence says it all.

The first sentence says it all.
Touche ST~

But the first :30 seconds says it perfectly, it even comes outta the "Saviors'" own pie-hole.

BTW, DON'T bother with the rest!

View from the Top: Jeff Smisek, United Continental Holdings - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysDQQugfFsU&feature=related)

Please, refrain from posting El Heffe vids, or at least give us advance warning. The guy is in love with his visage and his perceived omnipotence. He's also delusional and has no idea how to get this airline to where he thinks it already is. Additionally, the cast of management characters he's assembled are also out of their league. While he may eventually get this place "sorta" on track, by the time he does the damage already inflicted will kill the patient in the long run.

His schtick worked in the law office. It's worthless on Wacker. Where the hell are Pat Paterson and is Juan Tripp when we need them?

ps....Marvins, Wake the F up!

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Fake Doctors Notes & Excuses | BestFakeDoctorNotes.com
We provide the highest quality doctors notes and medical excuses on the Net. Rated #1 for four years in a row.

Fake Doctors Notes & Excuses | BestFakeDoctorNotes.com (http://www.bestfakedoctornotes.com)
The first line in the ad says it all......

Dear Friend ~

If you are overstressed, overworked and underpaid -- then this may very well be the most valuable website you'll ever visit.

Apologies,
I am a latecomer to this thread but here is my .o2.
1. If UA pilots do not push back doctor's notes will become an accepted practice. As of now, they are not an accepted practice they are a new practice indicative of "pilot pushing" a common event during contentious labor events such as contract negotiations.
2. Contact FAA (http://www.faa.gov/contact/)
Doesn't get much easier than this link to contact/inform FAA of this new requirement and its impact to safe 121 operations. While you are at it, cc your Congressman of same.

If it becomes accepted practice, then it will be accepted practice.

Wishing CAL/UA all the best in the tough fight ahead. Will see you on the picket line, I've stood with you before, best, SD

Spool,

Of course you're exactly right. But, there is a significant percentage of the pilot group, and I'm not talking about females here....who do not possess a pair of testosterone filled fuzzy danglies. Oddly enough many of them are named Marvin. From what I have read, the CAL dudes seem to have a similar group, but I am unsure of their moniker. I'd go into more detail regarding various pillow biting situations in the past, but its just too damn embarrassing and would provide info to the enemy.

James is often disgusted.

Fill out FSAP regarding your sick call. Goes to FAA. Good way to document. Interesting how the company expects the junior pilots to fly 30/7 all month and not call in sick.

Don't see any mention of doctors in here.

§ 61.53 Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/e/ecfr/graphics/ret-arrow-generic-grey.gif (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=40760189a03dfea0b501608f33820a45&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#PartTop) (a) Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, no person who holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter may act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person:
(1) Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation;

So apparently you need a note from a person who has no idea what the requirements of the medical certificate are to "validate" the fact that you do not meet them. This cannot possibly hold up in any court.

PIPE

I suffer from two, well documented (and frequently discussed with my chief pilot) herniated disks. I have called out every other month for the past year with zero documentation other than the knowledge that I would not have been safe to fly while suffering the painful spasms that often result given the FAR 61.53. I plan to continue.

Please, refrain from posting El Heffe vids

Unless it's this one;

United Airlines CEO Parody - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0toJNaR-mM)

The worst part about this message is not the content, but the fact that Phuggin Phred has successfully inserted his ancient hand in Steve Arnold's *bum* and is now working him like a puppet. Arnold held off for quite a while, but in the end he has fallen to the dark side,,, so Steve- FUPM too.


I got news for you.

Pfred is Steve's proctologist.

he's had his hand on his *bum* for quite some time. *****************************

how do you think Steve got the job?

He ran Cleveland as a sort of "paradise island" instead of the "mistake by the lake." Cleveland never had any issues internally or externally, other than that weird "snow memo". And the main reason was the predictibility of the life style. With or without PBS, Cleveland didn't really change after POS 02, and Steve just sort of rode the "Peace Train" after the real chief pilot ended up in alcohol rehab. Steve did his job and his boss' job for quite some time, and he got the nod because he kept the peace.

Steve now has to figure out if he can work for an *jerk*, and to what degree does he sell his soul to the devel to keep his stock options and fat cat pay check.

Steve works for the dark side.... period dot. If he chewed Pfred's butt, and refused to follow his unlawful orders, than that would be a different story...........but, sadly Steve but his John Hancock on it. Very sad.

Continental is gone, welcome to United. It was only a couple years ago when CAL was on top of all of them. What changed? ;)

You're speaking from your own experience which clearly shows that it isn't very much...

Continental is gone, welcome to United. It was only a couple years ago when CAL was on top of all of them. What changed? ;)

Ummmm.... Jeff began to manage your company

...other than that weird "snow memo".

Ah yes... the weird snow memo...

Sorry for asking but what is the "weird snow memo"?

Sorry for asking but what is the "weird snow memo"?
"It was a strange memo, concerning snow......but that's not important".

Couldn't resist, sorry.

I have looked for a copy of the memo, but am unable to locate it. Maybe someone else has/can come across it??

Sorry for asking but what is the "weird snow memo"?Flightinfo.com Hangar (http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=94886&highlight=CAL+snow+wings&page=2)

On Feb. 9, 2007, the EWR Chief Pilot’s Office distributed the following
B-737 Update:

I woke up Wednesday morning and departed for work. I found my car under
an unexpected covering of loose powdery snow. I brushed it off the
windshield, and departed. As I accelerated up the street, the snow
readily blew off my car as I expected it would. When I arrived in EWR
that morning, it was apparent to me that we were in the midst of a
full-blown de-icing operation with our morning bank of planes, for
exactly the same conditions as I found with my car that morning: Loose
powdery snow covering the surfaces of the aircraft. Outside temperature
was well below freezing. Was de-icing warranted that morning? It’s my
opinion it was NOT. Flight Manual Sec 3, page 349 states, “The check to
determine the need for de-icing is an examination of critical aircraft
surfaces to ensure they are free of any ADHERING ice, snow, slush, or
frost. It was more than my opinion that morning that the loose powdery
snow would have departed almost immediately during the takeoff roll; I
actually did an inspection of an aircraft parked at the gate, to
determine actual conditions. Flight Ops Manual Sec 9, cites FAR 121.629,
which says the same about adhering contamination. Yet there was a
line-up of at least 25-30 aircraft waiting to be de-iced, and more to
follow. It was my opinion (and it appears that I am full of opinions
today) that this was a herd mentality. One aircraft asks to be de-iced,
and everyone else follows suit. In light of my continued message
regarding safety, this may seem contradictory. Believe me, I am in no
way suggesting that you compromise safety. Instead, I am suggesting that
we understand the conditions, and exercise common sense. This was an
opportunity to not only be safe, but to be efficient as well. Remember
that Professional statement I mentioned above. It was suggested by
someone that he would not take the chance that a lawyer may be seated in
row 13, as he was approaching the runway for takeoff with snow on his
wings. My answer to that is to make an announcement to the passengers
stating your intentions. Again, Safety and Common Sense prevails, but
knowledge is power.It was retracted, in a way, two weeks later.

One weird snow memo is a drop in the bucket compared to how many of those guys have been through rehab or are in the positions they are because of rehab.

Similar to the "trust your dispatcher"," use critical thinking" fuel memo out of IAH a few years ago. :eek:

Is that the same "Starley Gram" that said shuttle pilots fly without any fuel, so we should be able to do it on min fuel to save the company money? That one made me laugh.

Thanks. Interesting memo for interesting times.

Lordy. Did the EWR Chief Pilot actually write that??? Somebody send me his/her name so I can be sure to get off any plane that he/she is commanding.

One weird snow memo is a drop in the bucket compared to how many of those guys have been through rehab or are in the positions they are because of rehab.

Don't we have one who was busted actually doing coke on the property?

Similar to the "trust your dispatcher"," use critical thinking" fuel memo out of IAH a few years ago. :eek:

Is that a different one than the "star fleet" NASA fuel memo by Starley? I think there were about 2 or 3 such memos signed by different people.

Remember the "wright flyer" memo's? Probably be seeing those again soon I bet. Those were the brain child of Gary Small Sack in the IAH CPO.

Don't we have one who was busted actually doing coke on the property?


Yes. Furloughed to XJET after 9/11 and happened there but with EAP kept his job and back at CAL.

Don't we have one who was busted actually doing coke on the property?

Yes. Furloughed to XJET after 9/11 and happened there but with EAP kept his job and back at CAL.

You sure that's not two separate cases? I believe the one that was caught doing coke "on the property" was fired, and naturally his career was done.

The one that got caught was about to get tested, but fessed up about the problem BEFORE hand and EAP was able save his career.

However, my memory could be off.

Wow... this is the stuff that makes must watch television shows.

Is that a different one than the "star fleet" NASA fuel memo by Starley? I think there were about 2 or 3 such memos signed by different people.

Remember the "wright flyer" memo's? Probably be seeing those again soon I bet. Those were the brain child of Gary Small Sack in the IAH CPO.
Looks as if the "Village Called"....Starley has been remarkably 'quiet' for the last 12 months. I would have thought by now, Freddy would have had Jimmy writing at least 3-4 Memos a week tagged full of baffoonery.

Gary Small....Now there's a waste of space on every level of the term.