Airline Pilot Forums

How is confidentiality guaranteed if I should only use my unique link to do the survey? Seems like some data mining ops.

I'm always suspicious of "The Dark Side, " but this seems like a genuinely sincere request. I have 2 thoughts ...

Thought #1: I clicked on the link and it didn't take me to a survey?

Thought #2: (more important thought). Flight Management is spending some serious bucks on renovations. They're asking for our input. Why wouldn't we want to give them constructive/professional input (How/why would they use it against us? Are you paranoid if they really are out to get you?)

Maybe you intend on using the opportunity to call folks names and take cheap shots? :eek:

I'm always suspicious of "The Dark Side, " but this seems like a genuinely sincere request. I have 2 thoughts ...

Thought #1: I clicked on the link and it didn't take me to a survey?

Thought #2: (more important thought). Flight Management is spending some serious bucks on renovations. They're asking for our input. Why wouldn't we want to give them constructive/professional input (How/why would they use it against us? Are you paranoid if they really are out to get you?)

Maybe you intend on using the opportunity to call folks names and take cheap shots? :eek:
no cheap shots or name calling here... I took the last survey and I do like the new direction of management, less "hats and shoes" comments and more serious professional engagement. However, I did find it odd that the survey has a unique link e-mailed to each member. Probably not much data to mine on renovation questions but the communications part is a different story. It would be useful info to breakdown comm perceptions by seat, domicile, seniority etc.

Seems like some data mining ops.




Ya think?

Marty Levitt, Confessions of a Union Buster, called it "direct dealing."


Does "My Negotiating Committee Speaks For Me" ring a bell?






.

Does "My Negotiating Committee Speaks For Me" ring a bell?

.


Tony,

I'm as big of a "MNCSFM" advocate as anyone, but I can't find the section in the CBA where it addresses Flight Ops Facilities. I think they're wise to solicit "user input." Don't you? Maybe we'll have some good ideas :eek:

MM

Tony,

I'm as big of a "MNCSFM" advocate as anyone, but I can't find the section in the CBA where it addresses Flight Ops Facilities. I think they're wise to solicit "user input." Don't you? Maybe we'll have some good ideas :eek:

MM




We have five Hong Kong pilots on the street right now. I don't really give a rat's patoot about Flight Ops Facilities.






.

We have a new series of questions to ask you about communications and space prioritization in MEM.


Comm? Not going to take the survey but I have to give them a D-. We have union reps ready and willing to work with flight ops management on many subjects. This time management is not just reviewing and pushing proposals back at our reps, they're attempting to bypass them entirely. They're choosing to spend a LOT of time and effort pushing surveys at us. That is poor comm.

I don't know about you but I'm not pleased they're giving us the cold shoulder on one hand (accepted fare/travel proposals and HKG piot terminations) but reaching out about BS items. This is good cop/bad cop.

They're working hard to try and make the union less important in our eyes. This won't stop with seemingly innocuous subjects. IMHO, their eventual goal is to tell the union what we want. I don't think that's a good idea.

If you fall for this you are doing all of us a disservice.

log on to FDX ALPA web site and/or check your email and read:

Positive Rate Weekly Edition
June 26, 2012
Message from MEC Vice Chairman
Captain John Cardaci

log on to FDX ALPA web site and/or check your email and read:

Positive Rate Weekly Edition
June 26, 2012
Message from MEC Vice Chairman
Captain John Cardaci




I second your suggestion. Excellent article, excellent message, excellent challenge.


I find it a bit puzzling that our MEC Vice Chairman could have gone all these years without learning the core principles of the message. Marty Levitt was telling us this stuff at FPA Rallies in 1998/1999, but John just recently picked it up from a lacrosse dad. Regardless of how or when, I'm glad he now finally gets it and that he's trying to spread the message.

Go to YouTube and search for Marty Levitt or Confessions of a Union Buster. Fortunately somebody thought to preserve some of his presentations on video.






.

Why doesnt the company give the questions to the union, then the union can run the survey. Both parties can then ignore the results. Everyone happy.

Why doesnt the company give the questions to the union, then the union can run the survey. Both parties can then ignore the results. Everyone happy.

If the union put it out...Only 15% would participate.:rolleyes:

IF (and thats a big "IF"), we had union leadership that could be sincere and non-contentious, and company leadership that could be devoid of egos and desires for a fatter paycheck, we just might possibly be able to strike a harmonious relationship---to a point---on particular issues. Until that time, both sides will continue to circumvent and divide because that's the way it's always been done. Give me leadership on both sides of the table with vision and integrity and we'll see what a juggernaut FDX could be. This BS of surveys on both the company side and the union side just about makes me nauseous. Let our pilot group, albeit apathetic at times, present their issues to the union and they should polish up that turd and present it to the company. If the company needs to see how the pilot group feels about an issue, it should be presented to the union for dissemination to the pilots----where we can have a whopping 15% turnout........

as once stated in the old "Pogo" cartoons, "...we have met the enemy, and it is us".....

We could all use a little direction to right this ship:(

If the union put it out...Only 15% would participate.:rolleyes:

That makes it easier for the union to claim with that the number one facilities issue the membership wants addressed is Section 29 improvements. :)

Maybe we should all take the survey. Answer all the questions with "no comment" or the choice that most closely resembles that. Then at the end put "my negotiating team speaks for me" in the comments section. With 4600+ of these the company may finally realize that we are unified and not all independent contractors!


Never mind - what was I thinking - this will never happen :eek:

I'm holding out for 3 hrs of pay.

I'm holding out for 3 hrs of pay.

so - for a few silver coins you will let the company bypass our elected representation :confused:

They (Mgmt) quite obviously think the time is right to try and bypass our elected Reps and attempt to direct deal with us..........Hmmmm.....wonder where they got that Idea??????

so - for a few silver coins you will let the company bypass our elected representation :confused:

Not really. But I'd like to see them offer it.

I just think those clicking the link for nothing are letting the company off cheap. Maybe they can start washing cars at the AOC for free too.

They (Mgmt) quite obviously think the time is right to try and bypass our elected Reps and attempt to direct deal with us..........Hmmmm.....wonder where they got that Idea??????

Maybe they think our elected Reps don't really represent us. Seeing that our elected Reps win their election with only 8% of the eligible votes? :confused:

Maybe they think our elected Reps don't really represent us. Seeing that our elected Reps win their election with only 8% of the eligible votes? :confused:

Nah......they are just probing to see if we will let them go around our Neg. Committee......:cool: I don't plan on allowing that.........you? :confused:

First of all, I haven't taken the survey.

However, I am not sure of the big deal. If we mention we want leather lazy-boys instead of cloth, does that mean we've screwed the union? If they ask us what pay we'd accept or if we'd like to exchange our retirement plans to get these lazy-boys, I'd sort of understand the argument. Just my opinion.

And Tony, I have no idea what remodeling the ops facilities has to do with the firing of the Hong Kong pilots. "Confessions" is a good book though.

First of all, I haven't taken the survey.

However, I am not sure of the big deal. If we mention we want leather lazy-boys instead of cloth, does that mean we've screwed the union? If they ask us what pay we'd accept or if we'd like to exchange our retirement plans to get these lazy-boys, I'd sort of understand the argument. Just my opinion.

And Tony, I have no idea what remodeling the ops facilities has to do with the firing of the Hong Kong pilots. "Confessions" is a good book though.

If they get a higher participation rate in their survey than we can muster for association votes - that by itself tells management a lot!

Maybe they think our elected Reps don't really represent us. Seeing that our elected Reps win their election with only 8% of the eligible votes? :confused:

Just thought I would add this quote to the one above and see if anyone can connect the dots.

You mean this?

FDX ALPA Chairman's letter thread (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/8762-fdx-alpa-chairmans-letter.html)

I still find it hard to believe that there was not outrage shown by this pilot group, when that came out after the CBA had been voted on.

First of all, I haven't taken the survey.

However, I am not sure of the big deal. If we mention we want leather lazy-boys instead of cloth, does that mean we've screwed the union? If they ask us what pay we'd accept or if we'd like to exchange our retirement plans to get these lazy-boys, I'd sort of understand the argument...
.

+1.........

for those of you who still don't seem to understand

First of all, I haven't taken the survey.

However, I am not sure of the big deal.

+1.........

I repeat.....

log on to FDX ALPA web site and/or check your email and read:

Positive Rate Weekly Edition
June 26, 2012
Message from MEC Vice Chairman
Captain John Cardaci

for those of you who still don't seem to understand





I repeat.....

Was that the positive rate that said dont bid a DP unless you are a union officer and want to take one for the team? Like I said an apology or an explanation is not to much to ask for. And could possibly be the first step in getting the membership beyond thinking there is an us and a them.

Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

Won't get fooled again.

I am just contracted labor here so what they do with their buildings is none of my concern. I doubt our fired brothers and sisters on the street care.

Was that the positive rate that said dont bid a DP unless you are a union officer and want to take one for the team?


It was in the same Positive Rate that directed us not to bid to a new aircraft until we have a negotiated pay rate (At least not until after your Union Officer's have been awarded bids on said new aircraft). :eek:

And don't worry ... the 777 will clearly pay A380 rates (we obviously believe that, in fact, we bid it ourselves). :eek:

Like I said in the other thread. Selfish, overconfident, and ultimately incompetent.

Let's not return to that paradigm

Like I said in the other thread. Selfish, overconfident, and ultimately incompetent.

Let's not return to that paradigm

..............+1

Amen

for those of you who still don't seem to understand





I repeat.....

I read the article again (lucky I saved it on email, since the alpa site was down). It's actually very good reading. However, we are fairly educated people here. If someone wants to put some input into crew facilities (again, I am not interested in the survey), I think we can separate this from direct negotiations with the company. I doubt many of us have "Stockholm Syndrome" where we begin to ally ourselves with our captors.

I rarely use the facilities in Memphis, and really don't have a big opinion about them. I'll leave the survey to those that actually use the facilities. I sure won't condemn them if they take the survey. We don't have many secrets here. We have managers that are ALPA members. You don't think they have access to every bit of information that the line guys get? They know the apathy of our group, they know that very few people care to vote, they know that we recalled block reps. They know we pick up disputed pairings, they know we jump over ourselves for a draft trip.

As far as the positive rate article goes, I think it has some real merit. I just don't think a survey about crew facilities is a real threat to our union. Even if I don't use them often, it is a good thing (for us and the company) to enable our pilots the opportunity to get better rest. I think it is no secret that fatigue has been a big factor in our miserable safety record. If better crew rest facilities help mitigate fatigue in any way, I am for it.

I read the article again (lucky I saved it on email, since the alpa site was down). It's actually very good reading. However, we are fairly educated people here. If someone wants to put some input into crew facilities (again, I am not interested in the survey), I think we can separate this from direct negotiations with the company. I doubt many of us have "Stockholm Syndrome" where we begin to ally ourselves with our captors.

I rarely use the facilities in Memphis, and really don't have a big opinion about them. I'll leave the survey to those that actually use the facilities. I sure won't condemn them if they take the survey. We don't have many secrets here. We have managers that are ALPA members. You don't think they have access to every bit of information that the line guys get? They know the apathy of our group, they know that very few people care to vote, they know that we recalled block reps. They know we pick up disputed pairings, they know we jump over ourselves for a draft trip.

As far as the positive rate article goes, I think it has some real merit. I just don't think a survey about crew facilities is a real threat to our union. Even if I don't use them often, it is a good thing (for us and the company) to enable our pilots the opportunity to get better rest. I think it is no secret that fatigue has been a big factor in our miserable safety record. If better crew rest facilities help mitigate fatigue in any way, I am for it.



Do you really believe that this survey is just about improving facilities?

Do you really believe in this whole new style of management that is being pushed on us?

Have you ever heard of the calm before the storm?

The first survey was a psych test. It repeated questions verbatim, repeated similar type questions, wouldn't let you page back to compare answers, etc. Same test a lot of us took to get hired here, or old Northwest, etc., among other things. It paints a personality profile. Period.

Will the second survey be different? I'm not clicking the link to find out. Unique link? More data being collected.

I can think of other ways to get pilot input. Just thinking this isn't the way to do it.

The first survey was a psych test. It repeated questions verbatim, repeated similar type questions, wouldn't let you page back to compare answers, etc. Same test a lot of us took to get hired here, or old Northwest, etc., among other things. It paints a personality profile. Period.

Will the second survey be different? I'm not clicking the link to find out. Unique link? More data being collected.

I can think of other ways to get pilot input. Just thinking this isn't the way to do it.

+1.....+1.........Double Amen........and maybe a halleluiah.

Glad you get it...because when I hear about the new positive direction of flight management I want to barf..

PC. Part of the parking lot deal players.
BM. Left his association job to work against the association as a contract enforcer. Just as bad as LK, just comes across nicer...
JK. Helped PC sell the parking lot deal to others at FPA, also claims to be the one who started the HK witch hunt.

PSP at its finest. These guys are not our friends. They view us as a cost center and nothing more, and no loyalty to anyne but themselves and their paycheck.

Talk to your rep. I am doing the survey. No comment no comment, talk to association, not me.

Now, hopefully the association might get off their rear and attack this head on for a change. SS ain't the best on confrontation though...and he is very chummy with BM...a little too much in my opinion.

When will we all get subscriptions to the Harvard Business Review? :rolleyes:

Glad you get it...because when I hear about the new positive direction of flight management I want to barf..

PC. Part of the parking lot deal players.
BM. Left his association job to work against the association as a contract enforcer. Just as bad as LK, just comes across nicer...
JK. Helped PC sell the parking lot deal to others at FPA, also claims to be the one who started the HK witch hunt.

PSP at its finest. These guys are not our friends. They view us as a cost center and nothing more, and no loyalty to anyne but themselves and their paycheck.

Talk to your rep. I am doing the survey. No comment no comment, talk to association, not me.

Now, hopefully the association might get off their rear and attack this head on for a change. SS ain't the best on confrontation though...and he is very chummy with BM...a little too much in my opinion.


Well said, these guys are most definitely not our friends. They see each and every one of us as someone trying to scam them out of their big bonuses.

This entire "culture change" is nothing more than an info gathering session all while we've got Pilots without a job due to these guys being on a witch hunt.

Let's not forget when all of our ACPs quit in a short period of time because of LK. That should have been a bigger wake up call for all of us. Heck, that probably precipitated this reorganization.

I won't even click on the survey until I feel that they actually value us as a crew force. It's really sad that they don't value their crew force. Most guys I've met will go above and beyond here if treated properly, it's unfortunate that these guys don't know they're squandering that good will.

Glad you get it...because when I hear about the new positive direction of flight management I want to barf..

PC. Part of the parking lot deal players.
BM. Left his association job to work against the association as a contract enforcer. Just as bad as LK, just comes across nicer...
JK. Helped PC sell the parking lot deal to others at FPA, also claims to be the one who started the HK witch hunt.

PSP at its finest. These guys are not our friends. They view us as a cost center and nothing more, and no loyalty to anyne but themselves and their paycheck.

Talk to your rep. I am doing the survey. No comment no comment, talk to association, not me.

Now, hopefully the association might get off their rear and attack this head on for a change. SS ain't the best on confrontation though...and he is very chummy with BM...a little too much in my opinion.

Spot on!! This needs to be put on little laminated cards and passed around the crew room....:D:D

On a serious note -

No facilities surveys for me until management approaches the negotiating table prepared for the topic scheduled...and progress is made too.

Not even for 3 CH of pay.


Not sure why they're stalling. We show up ready to fly but they get away with nonperformance like its no big deal. Maybe they want to try their hand at mediation.

WHAT??? Our business-like relationship during "interim discussions" is not going well?

Shocker!!:rolleyes:

Either we're represented or we're not.

If we are - talk to my representatives.

I don't put much stock in the power of surveys anyway, on either side. I learned that lesson in 2007.

The first survey was a psych test. It repeated questions verbatim, repeated similar type questions, wouldn't let you page back to compare answers, etc. Same test a lot of us took to get hired here, or old Northwest, etc., among other things. It paints a personality profile. Period.

Will the second survey be different? I'm not clicking the link to find out. Unique link? More data being collected.

I can think of other ways to get pilot input. Just thinking this isn't the way to do it.

Agreed. I did the first one. I will never do another.

Either we're represented or we're not.

If we are - talk to my representatives.

I don't put much stock in the power of surveys anyway, on either side. I learned that lesson in 2007.

Bada Boom!

Either we're represented or we're not.

If we are - talk to my representatives.

I don't put much stock in the power of surveys anyway, on either side. I learned that lesson in 2007.




Ahh, yes, the 2007 survey.

We all remember who commissioned that survey, don't we? Right. Captain Prater was elected as ALPA President on a platform which included support for changing the regulated age. He appointed a Blue Ribbon committee to study the effects of a regulated age change. That committee included an expert on R&I issues. That individual was our own R&I Committee Chairman, and he was the National R&I Committee Chairman. HIS committee -- Not FedEx ALPA, not the FedEx ALPA MEC Chairman, but Prater's Committee which included our current MEC Chairman -- asked you that famous question, "Do you want the regulated age to change?"


It was like asking your 5-year-old daughter on Christmas Eve if she wants a pony for Christmas -- it created unrealistic expectations. In that case, it created the expectation that it was possible to NOT change the regulated age.






.

And Tony, I have no idea what remodeling the ops facilities has to do with the firing of the Hong Kong pilots. "Confessions" is a good book though.




They have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and that's why we shouldn't pay attention to one of them.

Divert, distract, divide. Pay no attention to how we're treating your brothers over here, tell me how you like our proposed floor plan.

The wrongful termination of pilots should be a unifying opportunity -- we're squandering it.


The book is interesting -- his speeches were better.






.

Ahh, yes, the 2007 survey.

We all remember who commissioned that survey, don't we? Right. Captain Prater was elected as ALPA President on a platform which included support for changing the regulated age. He appointed a Blue Ribbon committee to study the effects of a regulated age change. That committee included an expert on R&I issues. That individual was our own R&I Committee Chairman, and he was the National R&I Committee Chairman. HIS committee -- Not FedEx ALPA, not the FedEx ALPA MEC Chairman, but Prater's Committee which included our current MEC Chairman -- asked you that famous question, "Do you want the regulated age to change?"

It was like asking your 5-year-old daughter on Christmas Eve if she wants a pony for Christmas -- it created unrealistic expectations. In that case, it created the expectation that it was possible to NOT change the regulated age.

.

I understand.

If it was you in that position, you would have avoided such a question so as to deftly steer the membership in the direction you wanted it to go.

We all know Prater had his goal and any so called Blue ribbon panel was just eyewash. Anyone with the integrity to do honest work in that environment was sure to get beat up.

I saw through the questions asking, "If it's inevitable the age will change, do you want to have more say in the outcome." I knew that was asking permission to jump on the bandwagon and push for age change. Unfortunately many taking the survey were duped and said yes.

Prater and DW then chose to push for retro to "help" FedEx and NWA. It was not in the original legislation so their efforts actually changed the course of history.

Prater and DW then chose to push for retro to "help" FedEx and NWA. It was not in the original legislation so their efforts actually changed the course of history.




It wasn't DW acting alone -- he acted on behalf of the 12 MEC Members, the Block Representatives whose elections rarely garner much attention. Those Block Representatives felt it was important to protect all the seniority rights of ALL seniority number holders, even the old ones.

If you're looking for someone to blame, look for the guy who decided to move engineers back to front seats via an Excess Posting rather than a Vacancy Posting. Instead of seat progression being slowed for a time, the Excess Posting insured lots of folks would move backwards, and that's how we built the mess of worse and worse excess bids.

Agree or disagree, the important point I was trying to make is that FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with the famous poll.






.

If you're looking for someone to blame, look for the guy who decided to move engineers back to front seats via an Excess Posting rather than a Vacancy Posting. Instead of seat progression being slowed for a time, the Excess Posting insured lots of folks would move backwards, and that's how we built the mess of worse and worse excess bids.



.

I'm done with the blame game with age change. It's done. It only serves as a reminder of how politics has worked in the past so I may recognize similar intent in the future.

But any manager that has the stoopidity to mention how wrong the passover payouts have been get a loud laugh from me. I tell them maybe PC shouldn't have posted a 727 SO excess bid to fill vacancies, some of which weren't actually there, then flushed out the seats to make room for the over 60 SO awardees. PC did it to himself. He got promoted for that!

Do you really believe that this survey is just about improving facilities?

Do you really believe in this whole new style of management that is being pushed on us?

Have you ever heard of the calm before the storm?

DUHH.....

Can you REALLY find something subversive about asking how much you use the sleep facility???????

Watch out for the Black helicopters in your area.

It wasn't DW acting alone -- he acted on behalf of the 12 MEC Members, the Block Representatives whose elections rarely garner much attention. Those Block Representatives felt it was important to protect all the seniority rights of ALL seniority number holders, even the old ones.

If you're looking for someone to blame, look for the guy who decided to move engineers back to front seats via an Excess Posting rather than a Vacancy Posting. Instead of seat progression being slowed for a time, the Excess Posting insured lots of folks would move backwards, and that's how we built the mess of worse and worse excess bids.

Agree or disagree, the important point I was trying to make is that FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with the famous poll.






.

Really Tony,

Just who had the gun to the guys who voted Fedex in favor???'

Remember Fedex ALPA voted In Favor of ALPA's Position....I really would like you to explain how Fedex ALPA had nothing to do with the VOTE....the survey that had +60% or so against that vote.

What is your point. Semantics?

DUHH.....

Can you REALLY find something subversive about asking how much you use the sleep facility???????

Watch out for the Black helicopters in your area.


YES, I CAN! The fact that they are directly asking me, while we are in contract negotiations, vice going through our elected representation is enough to consider it subversive.

Did you email or talk to your block rep before taking the survey?

Is there anyone who likes the accepted fare "policy" since 2007? PC does. We've offered more than one fix for it and they have been rejected.

So I reject the surveys.

DUHH.....

Can you REALLY find something subversive about asking how much you use the sleep facility???????

Watch out for the Black helicopters in your area.

Not pretending to be smart enough to know, but I offer the following from the spring website (spring intl contracted for our survey), Home | Spring International (http://www.springitl.com/)


Develop Insights

Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes. What are your people thinking about? Why are they thinking about it? And how important is this to you?
Developing people insights requires a combination of science and art. The science of our research uses marketing and operations research techniques to understand attitudes and measure behaviors. The art of our approach draws on team experience that cuts across market and political research, human resources, communications and operations to interpret and apply data based on real-world experience.


>Surveys (http://www.springitl.com/service/survey)
>Analytics (http://www.springitl.com/service/analytics)
>Advanced Data Analysis (http://www.springitl.com/solution/advanced-data-analysis)
>Employee Lifecycle Insights (http://www.springitl.com/solution/employee-lifecycle-insights)

And from the Surveys link above:






Surveys

Spring provides surveys that produce relevant, in-depth research to inform decision making. Our principals select from an extensive bank of validated questions to design survey instruments around each organization’s unique needs and objectives. We typically use a ten-point response scale to capture a greater response intensity level for analysis. Our technology supports conditional questioning for follow up probing as well as question randomization to capture more information from the same population.
We offer flexible survey fielding options to meet respondents’ needs. We provide online surveys with generic or unique links that protect confidentiality and anonymity while capturing valuable demographics. We also support paper survey fielding and provide in-house scanning to collect responses from off line groups. For organizations that prefer to offer surveys onsite, we offer survey kiosks or touch-screens.
We provide both surveys and survey indices (to track data in multiple areas) for the following:


> Engagement (Employee, Customer and Member)
> Positive Employee Relations
> Leadership Effectiveness
> Change Readiness
> Work-Life Balance


Over to you all to make informed decisions and seek out more information independently,
SD

"Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes

I repeat Duhhh.... Have you ever taken statistics in your life....

I will translate " to understand your clients needs, and delivery what they are asking for"....Could that be the sleeping facilities the group wants or again we might want to get out those search lights for the subversive
Black ops guys you seem to be looking for under every rock.

No paranoia and no black helicopters

I don't care what they are asking about whether it be sleep rooms or what color we want the walls painted. The question has nothing to do with this!

We are in "contract negotiations". If they want answers to questions - ask our representation!

It's that simple.

"Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes

I repeat Duhhh.... Have you ever taken statistics in your life....

I will translate " to understand your clients needs, and delivery what they are asking for"....Could that be the sleeping facilities the group wants or again we might want to get out those search lights for the subversive
Black ops guys you seem to be looking for under every rock.


Instead of attacking the validity of a statement with facts, just ask if the person has black helicopters flying around them. Typical ad hominen attack. You should also call him a birther, truther, etc. You should get a job working for the MSM! :rolleyes:

"Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes

I repeat Duhhh.... Have you ever taken statistics in your life....

I will translate " to understand your clients needs, and delivery what they are asking for"....Could that be the sleeping facilities the group wants or again we might want to get out those search lights for the subversive
Black ops guys you seem to be looking for under every rock.

So how was the survey? 10 questions with a suggestion box at the end or closer to a SAT test?

Did they address the fact that they teach that a cool environment is ideal but the temperatures in the sleep rooms meet corporate standards so dont b!tch about the AC.

Can a union officer take the survey for me?

I just looked at the replys on just this page.....
1100
3000
1100
1200
4800 posts on THIS site

I have had

285.

I rounded up .......what in the world do you guys do other than sit on this site and spew at the company or the few of us that say what the *** are you doing with your lives......
From the info you each have provided I can find only one identifying himself as a 757 F/O.

Do you guys have nothing else in your lives to do other than trash other people and the only company that gave you a job.

I mean really, I have been here 34 years thru the good and bad, but to spend this much time trashing the one company that actually gave you a job.....go look in the mirror some time and say " thank God they took me and didn't look at who I am" and be happy you are
where you are.

[QUOTE=42GO;1245797
I mean really, I have been here 34 years thru the good and bad.....[/QUOTE]


Shouldn't you be collecting a percentage of your high-5 and fishing somewhere?

... from the spring website (spring intl contracted for our survey), Home | Spring International (http://www.springitl.com/)


Develop Insights

Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes. What are your people thinking about? Why are they thinking about it?

...


Surveys

We provide both surveys and survey indices (to track data in multiple areas) for the following:


> Engagement (Employee, Customer and Member)
> Positive Employee Relations






"Spring’s analytical techniques have been developed for two main purposes: to understand the drivers underlying human behavior and to establish measureable relationships with performance outcomes

I repeat Duhhh.... Have you ever taken statistics in your life....

I will translate " to understand your clients needs, and delivery what they are asking for"....Could that be the sleeping facilities the group wants or again we might want to get out those search lights for the subversive
Black ops guys you seem to be looking for under every rock.




If you think they actually give a flyin' flip about what you think about the sleep rooms, you're smokin' somethin' that should cause you to lose your medical.

Engagement? That means they're finding out how willing we are to deal directly with them while our Negotiating Committee is being stood up at the table because The Company cannot be bothered to prepare for discussions about Section 11 of the CBA. That means they're interested in how willing we are to ignore the fact that 4 pilots have been wrongfully terminated so we can discuss the decor of the facility we occupy.

No black helicopters -- no Alice in Wonderland. Just the way it is.






.

Really Tony,

Just who had the gun to the guys who voted Fedex in favor???'

Remember Fedex ALPA voted In Favor of ALPA's Position....I really would like you to explain how Fedex ALPA had nothing to do with the VOTE....the survey that had +60% or so against that vote.

What is your point. Semantics?




If you're going to argue against something I said, you need to begin by quoting me correctly. I said, "FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with the famous poll." I stand by that statement. Yes, FedEx pilots participated in that poll, but FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with it.

You seem to be confusing that poll with the decision of the ALPA Executive Board to change ALPA's policy regarding the regulated age change. Indeed, our MEC Chairman had a vote on that issue, and his vote was directed by the ALPA FedEx MEC. Also, our MEC Chairman introduced an amendment to the original resolution to include all seniority number holders. The vote for that amendment received more support from the Executive Board than the vote for the resolution itself.



So, you understand the difference between poll and vote, right?






.

I just looked at the replys on just this page.....
1100
3000
1100
1200
4800 posts on THIS site

I have had

285.

I rounded up .......what in the world do you guys do other than sit on this site and spew at the company or the few of us that say what the *** are you doing with your lives......
From the info you each have provided I can find only one identifying himself as a 757 F/O.

Do you guys have nothing else in your lives to do other than trash other people and the only company that gave you a job.

I mean really, I have been here 34 years thru the good and bad, but to spend this much time trashing the one company that actually gave you a job.....go look in the mirror some time and say " thank God they took me and didn't look at who I am" and be happy you are
where you are.




Really?

That's what you've got?

We post too many posts on APC?

We don't include our aircraft and seat in the public profile?

You don't like what people say, so you attack the people? Why don't you try discussing the ideas, instead?



Perhaps it was the case that back in the day, 34 years ago, you were greatful to be hired by "the one company that actually gave you a job," but that's not the case these days. Today's FedEx is not a clan of losers and wannabes, perhaps castoffs from other better jobs and perhaps running from trouble somewhere, just eternally grateful to the massah for offering us a job.

Listen, you seem to have taken offense at something which was posted, perhaps the criticism of Jack Lewis's decision to conduct a massive Excess Posting after the regulated age change in order to give the over-60s an opportunity to quickly reclaim the window seats. If so, you might have missed my point. I don't begrudge the pilots that used that bid to move -- they only exercised their seniority rights, and that was the main point all along. The problem lies with the person who decided to use the excess bid as a device for adjusting manning when a vacancy posting was more apporpriate. It's not you're fault for bidding it -- it's his fault for posting it that way.


34 years? Have you thought about taking up a hobby?





.

Shouldn't you be collecting a percentage of your high-5 and fishing somewhere?

Hey he was 42go in 2006 so I guess he is 3 to go in 2012. ALPA math. But I guess the company put a do not disclose statement in survey and he cant talk about the contents.

If you're going to argue against something I said, you need to begin by quoting me correctly. I said, "FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with the famous poll." I stand by that statement. Yes, FedEx pilots participated in that poll, but FedEx ALPA had nothing to do with it.

You seem to be confusing that poll with the decision of the ALPA Executive Board to change ALPA's policy regarding the regulated age change. Indeed, our MEC Chairman had a vote on that issue, and his vote was directed by the ALPA FedEx MEC. Also, our MEC Chairman introduced an amendment to the original resolution to include all seniority number holders. The vote for that amendment received more support from the Executive Board than the vote for the resolution itself.



So, you understand the difference between poll and vote, right?






.

First......I wasn't quoting....I was replying to your message.


Second.....I wasn't confused, everyone knows what happened.


Third.......I know the difference......a poll is where you ask the questions and a VOTE is where the Union does what it wants.

I think that about sums it up!

Really?

That's what you've got?

We post too many posts on APC?

We don't include our aircraft and seat in the public profile?

You don't like what people say, so you attack the people? Why don't you try discussing the ideas, instead?



Perhaps it was the case that back in the day, 34 years ago, you were greatful to be hired by "the one company that actually gave you a job," but that's not the case these days. Today's FedEx is not a clan of losers and wannabes, perhaps castoffs from other better jobs and perhaps running from trouble somewhere, just eternally grateful to the massah for offering us a job.

Listen, you seem to have taken offense at something which was posted, perhaps the criticism of Jack Lewis's decision to conduct a massive Excess Posting after the regulated age change in order to give the over-60s an opportunity to quickly reclaim the window seats. If so, you might have missed my point. I don't begrudge the pilots that used that bid to move -- they only exercised their seniority rights, and that was the main point all along. The problem lies with the person who decided to use the excess bid as a device for adjusting manning when a vacancy posting was more apporpriate. It's not you're fault for bidding it -- it's his fault for posting it that way.


34 years? Have you thought about taking up a hobby?





.

This had nothing to do with Jack Lewis.....or any other bid issue.

I was referring in general to the 40 to 50 guys who have to be spending 3/4 of their time awake just to write this many posts....

They are the ones who need to find a real hobby. While I read this only a couple times a month, I haven't seen a single problem solved by any one on this Forum. The only results from reading these posts are to agitate the few and stir the kettle.

And Tony, I thought you were above fanning the older guys continuous complaint line forum. I am suprised.

42GO....

Not a single problem solved by anyone on this forum? I've had many instances where I have had issues on the road that people on this forum either had a answer for or could point directly to the contract where the answer was deeply hidden.

I actually find this forum invaluable.

My 2cents

[QUOTE=TonyC;1245808]
The Company cannot be bothered to prepare for discussions about Section 11 of the CBA. That means they're interested in how willing we are to ignore the fact that 4 pilots have been wrongfully terminated so we can discuss the decor of the facility we occupy.

Shack,
My negotiating committee speaks for me.

This is business. And the business at hand is negotiating a fair contract that recognizes the contributions to FedEx Express from the pilot group for FedEx, writ large, a company that we dearly love and go the extra mile for at every opportunity. Again, big picture view required and personalities aside, albeit very difficult given the tenor and recent actions of flight operations mgmt choosing to terminate 4 of our peers.

I just looked at the replys on just this page.....
1100
3000
1100
1200
4800 posts on THIS site

I have had

285.

I rounded up .......what in the world do you guys do other than sit on this site and spew at the company or the few of us that say what the *** are you doing with your lives......
From the info you each have provided I can find only one identifying himself as a 757 F/O.

Do you guys have nothing else in your lives to do other than trash other people and the only company that gave you a job.

I mean really, I have been here 34 years thru the good and bad, but to spend this much time trashing the one company that actually gave you a job.....go look in the mirror some time and say " thank God they took me and didn't look at who I am" and be happy you are
where you are.

34 years at FDX? I'm surprised you've figured out how to operate these new fangled computers and get on to the internets.

"Gave you a job"....Really? That frame of mind is truly pathetic!!

34 years at FDX? I'm surprised you've figured out how to operate these new fangled computers and get on to the internets.

"Gave you a job"....Really? That frame of mind is truly pathetic!!

What is has me confused is 42go thinks we trash the company and the UPS guys think we drink the kool aide,

42GO....

Not a single problem solved by anyone on this forum? I've had many instances where I have had issues on the road that people on this forum either had a answer for or could point directly to the contract where the answer was deeply hidden.

I actually find this forum invaluable.

My 2cents


At least it's better than watching "The View." There isn't a table large enough for the 12 or so angry men. :D

I love it....I just love it....

it is like throwing a raw steak into the Great White tank and watching all of them fight to get a piece of the flesh...

You guys are great.....what a source of entertainment....

it is like throwing a raw steak into the Great White tank and watching all of them fight to get a piece of the flesh...

You do that a lot?......... throwing raw steak to Great Whites? It's been a while for me but from what I can remember it was pretty cool last time ;)

FDX- survey 2,...you mean there was 1? I volunteered so that I wouldn't get drafted:D
fbh

42GO

When you came up with this line:

"Some minds are like concrete thoroughly mixed up and permanently set."

Were you looking in the mirror??

Also - when I go to the ALPA website on which list, the "member in good standing" or the "non-member" list, would I look for your name??